I'm thinking about standard cars in GT7

[danielc]

Duplicates are the japanese/euro/us versions, the gripe with skylines is that instead of 50 of those, some people would prefer another 5 brands with ten cars, 10 brands with 5 cars, etc(you get the picture), instead of similar looking/performing cars.

 

[Mulan]

With time there will always be new standards as the new standards in graphics improve faster than models can be converted at todays pace.
GT5 premiums will become new standards too. New generation standards
I dont know where the line goes but having 1200+ cars or even 600 cars next time a new game is released should they all be transformed and at the same time new cars added, can a company handle that? Or will there be a limit of say max 400 cars and replacing older with new ones to keep up?

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

I must admit having read through the whole thread I've swayed both sides of the fence as there are convincing arguements to keep or ditch the standards.

Ultimately I think the best option is to go for only cars with a cockpit and premium body. I think GT7 and PS4 would be a step too far for unimproved standards. The semi improved RUF's etc are nicer in photomode but don't feel like they've been upgraded when in cockpit mode which I race in. A full upgrade is the only option for me. Driving the Mercedes VGT is ruined for me knowing that it is a great looking (my opinion) premium body (it even sounds okish) but still has the black interior. I've had no problem in GT5 with the black cockpit screen option for standards but I think GT6 was a step too far, let alone GT7. More cars should have been upgraded. I would miss all the older cars that don't get the upgrade but it would be for the greater good to leave them out.

Bad reviews would hone in on the cars without cockpit mode and slaughter PD. The target should be to upgrade as many cars as possible but priority should be given according to Kaz's whim community vote That would keep most (if not all) people happy.

All duplicate/same model cars should only be available as options purchased from within the dealership. So you see just one type of MX-5/Miata Mark 1 in the Mazda dealership and then select the year/ version/ position of steering wheel etc that you want from the following screen. If PD still want to claim higher numbers of cars than is really the case I don't care. It's trivial. It's how the game plays that matters.

To keep/regain interest though, PD really need to feature cars that haven't been in the game before (both old cars and brand new models). I feel driving new cars and new tracks in the game will be a bigger draw than recycling cars. That along with a full feature list.

 

[ColouredBadger]

All duplicate/same model cars should only be available as options purchased from within the dealership. So you see just one type of MX-5/Miata Mark 1 in the Mazda dealership and then select the year/ version/ position of steering wheel etc that you want from the following screen. If PD still want to claim higher numbers of cars than is really the case I don't care. It's trivial. It's how the game plays that matters.

I kinda agree and to add to this point; Test Drive Unlimited is an oldish game which I think Gran Turismo could learn (steal) from. Let me explain.
PD already model some cars with multiple interior options, e.g, Ferrari's have red, black, cream, brown interiors which change with the exterior colour. So where would be the harm in making a proper dealer thing available with full selection options? They've already been modelled so why can't we choose?
As JSB says (and adding to the point), we could choose the car, choose the car colour, interior colour, left/right hand drive (if available in real life) and then buy the car. If you wanted to go crazy they could even include different wheels from the manufacturer to choose from. In doing this you can still keep duplicates and it's somewhat hiding the fact that they are even there and it technically bumps up the car count if you're being anal about it. It's a win win really, for them and for us.

I'm not for one second saying I want Standards in GT7 but I feel that this option could be a way around the duplicates issue but the selected cars have to be updated. I don't think we need an MX5 for every year since 1980 though (whenever the first one was made). Simply one from each generation with the above options is more than enough. But as we know, PD don't listen to what we want, they listen to what Kazunori 'Hitler' Yamauchi wants...

To keep/regain interest though, PD really need to feature cars that haven't been in the game before (both old cars and brand new models). I feel driving new cars and new tracks in the game will be a bigger draw than recycling cars. That along with a full feature list.

And to this point too. I also agree but adding new manufacturers isn't a must for me. We have so many car manufacturers which are so under-represented and they could do with bumping up with new models. Maserati, Lister, Bugatti, Ford (Somewhat under-represented), Pagani etc. are all undervalued. Others have massively outdated car lists; Mercedes, Vauxhall, TVR etc. which just need updating. Mercedes especially. 90% of the dealership is 2004 or earlier.
They like they're classics too so what is wrong with adding a few classic Maserati's, Bugatti's, Lamborghini's, Ferrari's, Jaguars etc.
Also, I can't believe that Koenigsegg isn't in the game yet. It's been in just about every other racing game since the CCR yet not been in GT.

Tracks are a different kettle of fish and a kettle I agree with. Lets just say I'm bored to death of Deep Forest and Trail Mountain... Both technically 'Standard' tracks.

But back on topic. We do need an overhauled list instead of a simple copy and paste job here and the points I have added/expanded upon might be a good way of getting around it. In my opinion.

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

I kinda agree and to add to this point; Test Drive Unlimited is an oldish game which I think Gran Turismo could learn (steal) from. Let me explain.
PD already model some cars with multiple interior options, e.g, Ferrari's have red, black, cream, brown interiors which change with the exterior colour. So where would be the harm in making a proper dealer thing available with full selection options? They've already been modelled so why can't we choose?
As JSB says (and adding to the point), we could choose the car, choose the car colour, interior colour, left/right hand drive (if available in real life) and then buy the car. If you wanted to go crazy they could even include different wheels from the manufacturer to choose from. In doing this you can still keep duplicates and it's somewhat hiding the fact that they are even there and it technically bumps up the car count if you're being anal about it. It's a win win really, for them and for us.

I'm not for one second saying I want Standards in GT7 but I feel that this option could be a way around the duplicates issue but the selected cars have to be updated. I don't think we need an MX5 for every year since 1980 though (whenever the first one was made). Simply one from each generation with the above options is more than enough. But as we know, PD don't listen to what we want, they listen to what Kazunori 'Hitler' Yamauchi wants...



And to this point too. I also agree but adding new manufacturers isn't a must for me. We have so many car manufacturers which are so under-represented and they could do with bumping up with new models. Maserati, Lister, Bugatti, Ford (Somewhat under-represented), Pagani etc. are all undervalued. Others have massively outdated car lists; Mercedes, Vauxhall, TVR etc. which just need updating. Mercedes especially. 90% of the dealership is 2004 or earlier.
They like they're classics too so what is wrong with adding a few classic Maserati's, Bugatti's, Lamborghini's, Ferrari's, Jaguars etc.
Also, I can't believe that Koenigsegg isn't in the game yet. It's been in just about every other racing game since the CCR yet not been in GT.

Tracks are a different kettle of fish and a kettle I agree with. Lets just say I'm bored to death of Deep Forest and Trail Mountain... Both technically 'Standard' tracks.

But back on topic. We do need an overhauled list instead of a simple copy and paste job here and the points I have added/expanded upon might be a good way of getting around it. In my opinion.

Agreed (except for the nickname bit).

The dealership options idea has been mentioned quite a lot on here and would be a nice feature. If it was like the best manufacturers' online car configurators then even better. Then if you want other "mods" you go to GTAuto.

Maybe there should also be a do it yourself garage where you do the unique stuff like engine swaps

 

[avens]

Another thread that could have ended at the very first reply that went wrong because of Mulan and SavageEvil.

Anyway, I think it will pretty much always be like it is in GT6: No distinction in-game though in practice there is that clear distinction. Even if PD gets rid of "standards" and "duplicates" and "fakes" altogether still the "premium" (interior) car models made in 2005 (after GT4) will be of worse quality than those made in 2015 for GT7.

The same goes for sound recording techniques, how to scan tracks, etc. There's "standards" among "standards" (worse quality. Alto works) just like some cars, tracks and assets are more premium than other premiums. This will always be the case because that's how all continuously developed franchises work.
Furthermore we all know how badly sound is screwed up and that they record it by simply having someone stay right near the exhaust end with a microphone (there's photos of that), that all tracks in GT6 and before were not laser scanned (Bathurst may be the first one though, was that confirmed?) and so on. All that dated content is currently in GT6 without a disclaimer that says "sound for this car was recorded in 2002" or "laguna seca was last updated for 2004's GT4" or "over 1000 cars. More than half shouldn't count".

With that said, knowing that assets will always be of different quality and that there's no revamps in this franchise as in lets say street fighter 2 to sf3 or sf4 (sf4 does not use sf2 sprites), I think for the PS4 it's high time to get rid of GT4 quality and before assets, all of them. I know losing all those great cars and tracks will be a pity, but the difference between premium cars, tracks, sounds, etc. with standards will be just too much in that time. They looked ok for their time and in games where all cars/tracks looked similar to each other, just not now when those cars are racing right near to another that makes them look awful and very dated, unprofessional like in mugen fighting games.

 

[eSZee]

Duplicates are the japanese/euro/us versions, the gripe with skylines is that instead of 50 of those, some people would prefer another 5 brands with ten cars, 10 brands with 5 cars, etc(you get the picture), instead of similar looking/performing cars.

I think this discussion has been beaten to death enough.
Taking away 40 skylines DOES NOT mean we'll get 40 other cars. Do you think making 50 skylines takes teh same time as creating 50 different models?

 

[danielc]

Not what i said... I said people would prefer if instead of 50 skylines, we get more variety of cars, in my case i would trade them all for a couple of 201x cars
Edit
I am also not entering this woulda-coulda-should thing, i am just saying what the gripe is. (At least mine)

 

[Tornado]

Jaguar XJ R9 LM

Well, there's one example of your claim since that is the only one that was featured as a Standard and Premium in GT5 and they did remove the Standard car.

Cizeta
Sauber C9

The other two, however, where the car was a Standard in GT5 and is now a Premium, isn't them "removing duplicates" like you claimed. That's them not adding more.

787B...

And there is a duplicate of that in GT6, so it's not an example anyway.

Didn't the multiple Ford GT standard models disappear there is only one which is the concept Ford GT is there not, what happened to the others that were in GT5?

And that would be two, since they rolled the No Stripe in with the 2005 model which is now a Premium (but still a duplicate).

I'm not being facetious or anything, just asking have you seen those duplicate cars?

I posted several examples of the ones still in the game that they didn't touch, and one where the padding is especially blatant that they drew attention to how much they didn't fix it. You seem to have missed it; so despite your assurances I'm curious whether you are being facetious.

So I am going to ask you did they or did they not remove duplicate cars?

Out of the 150 some odd duplicates in GT5, they removed... 2. And just as a complete spitballing number, between the Stealths (now officially counted separately and available to everyone when they weren't in GT5), the base models and the straight up copies (See: NSX concepts) they added a good 15+.




So no. They did not. PD didn't even fix the ones that aren't supposed to be duplicates (See: 3000GT SL as just one of many), but were too lazy to model them correctly so they are anyway; even though that would be an extremely easy way to actually add legitimately different models to the car list.

Another thing and I don't know why you swear that a car with a different model year constitutes the same vehicle,

Because unless it did have differences in real life (and a lot of bread and butter cars do not change year to year mechanically), and unless PD actually took the steps to model those differences (See: Lexus dealership), it does. There are cars where PD did their due diligence and modeled the differences from year to year (the 1990s Integras being the best example). There are also cars where PD changed the number at the end of the car name and decided that was good enough (the USDM S2000 coming immediately to mind).



And "prove me wrong" doesn't count as a justification.

You seem angry for whatever reason and I don't really care as to why but direct your misappropriated venom elsewhere as I don't care for it.

I'm annoyed because you keep claiming the same demonstrably incorrect statements over and over again; and it's long past being tiring correcting you on it. We already have too many people spreading information which is as meaningless as it is blindly supportive. We don't need it done over issues where we can actually objectively view what's wrong.

Answer that and nothing more, don't need to see any other of "your" reasoning as that will be a long read of spiel as you like to call it. Good luck!

You already saw it and ignored it once (nevermind the other threads you've done it in, like that thread where you interjected during a discussion with a detailed breakdown of every duplicate Miata model in the game just to claim PD haven't padded the numbers) so why would I bother to do it again?

 

[TheCrazySwede]

The whole idea of "Standard" vehicles in this game is stupid. Somehow the community has grown to accept it, which is ridiculous because this concept wouldn't work at all in different sports games. FIFA 15 with standard players? That **** boulder would roll into a crap avalanche real quick. No idea how PD has gotten away with it for this long.

 

[vkmaxx]

Truth is that they can't make everybody happy, as long as there are more that 2 customers they will find something that they completely disagree about.

• Motion blur during replays (I like it, some one doesn't)
• 60fps replay vs 30fps replay
• Dynamic shadows (ambitious, but some people say ugly)
• Realistic smoke (too much smoke, to little smoke...)
• A lot of cars but standarts among theme
• New GT6 menu (fast but some say ugly)

The list goes on and on. The result is that every aspect of the game can make someone happy, and at the same time someone else unhappy. There is no middle point.

 

[emula]

Truth is that they can't make everybody happy, as long as there are more that 2 customers they will find something that they completely disagree about.

• Motion blur during replays (I like it, some one doesn't)
• 60fps replay vs 30fps replay
• Dynamic shadows (ambitious, but some people say ugly)
• Realistic smoke (too much smoke, to little smoke...)
• A lot of cars but standarts among theme
• New GT6 menu (fast but some say ugly)

The list goes on and on. The result is that every aspect of the game can make someone happy, and at the same time someone else unhappy. There is no middle point.

they could put standard cars in a section called "GT museum" or similar with all old cars and old tracks from PS2 upsclaed, so everyone is happy

 

[buickgnx88]

they could put standard cars in a section called "GT museum" or similar with all old cars and old tracks from PS2 upsclaed, so everyone is happy

Or they could just play GT4.

 

[strela]

Or they could just play GT4.

This must be the best solution I've heard so far!! 👎

 

[buickgnx88]

Hey, sometimes you just have to let some things go in order for others to improve.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Or they could just play GT4.

Or even better, they can just stick with GT6 where the standard cars already have improved physics and models. Meanwhile, the rest of us can finally move on so that the series feels up to date. Everyone wins.

 

[strela]

Hey, sometimes you just have to let some things go in order for others to improve.

Look.. I know it's difficult for you guys to understand couse you don't care. Would you let go the Bathrust, Nordschleife and Spa in order to improve the game? I highly doubt.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Look.. I know it's difficult for you guys to understand couse you don't care. Would you let go the Bathrust, Nordschleife and Spa in order to improve the game? I highly doubt.

I don't think mentioning tracks that have been made for GT5/GT6 from scratch is a good way to prove your point.

 

[strela]

I don't think mentioning tracks that have been made for GT5/GT6 from scratch is a good way to prove your point.

You see, you defending it becouse you do care.. It's only logical to do so. But you do realise that droping tracks would make PD all the works much easier, or you don't agree with that? You see my point now?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Look.. I know it's difficult for you guys to understand couse you don't care. Would you let go the Bathrust, Nordschleife and Spa in order to improve the game? I highly doubt.

Yeah I would, if it wasn't up to par with the current quality it could be. Hell yeah I'd want them to ax it. My issue with people of this type of thought "just keep it", usually come off as types that don't either work or work a job that doesn't ask too much of them. If you're going to do something right, then tout to your fan base on an ivory tower that your are doing your utmost to achiever perfection, you damn well better show it. Rather doing half-arsed crap like transporting cars from GT3/GT4 and being awful in GT5 and the finally updating the same awful looks for GT6 in the name of being bloated and claiming most cars. Is crap, if I did that I would live out of a box, I guess we can all be glad they make video games and not something that could actually harm us if built so shotty in some areas and wonderful in others.

 

[strela]

I'm not in a mood to start a war with you guys. It's pointless. You won't move frome your opinion.. I won't move from mine.
In a week I will be back on my cargo ship where I'll stay for 8-9 months. I only hope the game will evolve and you guys will chill out a little by that time.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Look.. I know it's difficult for you guys to understand couse you don't care. Would you let go the Bathrust, Nordschleife and Spa in order to improve the game? I highly doubt.

There's misunderstanding on all sides including yours. I believe most of us can understand that some people want standards no matter what. I get your point. Do you get the point that having 10 year old cars in a next gen game is ridiculous to many people? Does anyone else do this? Is there any other AAA game that would consider this?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm not in a mood to start a war with you guys. It's pointless. You won't move frome your opinion.. I won't move from mine.
In a week I will be back on my cargo ship where I'll stay for 8-9 months. I only hope the game will evolve and you guys will chill out a little by that time.

Oh I see, so you really just don't have much to say unless it's minnows talking to you. Also could you please answer the questions you were asked rather than running, we're quite "chill", but this is a forum where discussion and debate unfold and thus one sided non-substantiating post don't really add anything. Also I answered your question proved you wrong to a degree, I was really hoping for you to rebuttal.

 

[MustangManiac]

I just don't see Kaz giving up his 1200+ car trump card he thinks he has over every other game and I can't imagine PD having time to make them all premium so my guess is there will be standards in GT forever. I agree, it is ridiculous!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I just don't see Kaz giving up his 1200+ car trump card he thinks he has over every other game and I can't imagine PD having time to make them all premium so my guess is there will be standards in GT forever. I agree, it is ridiculous!

That's the way I see it as well.

 

[Illogical]

I don't want to see them toss the standards, HD premium shells without interiors would be good enough for me, I drive from the hood. I used photo mode to put the main cars I use online on my computer desktop at work. But, doing that made me realize how bad the Galant VR-4 looks compared to my '11 Elise. Makes me sad to think that GT7 premiums will look so good that they might consider dropping the galant so the game doesn't look crappy. I'd rather them take another year and bring all the cars up to date. At this point Grand Theft Auto V cars look better than GT6 standards.

 

[buickgnx88]

If you think about how good the graphics are on the PS4, and assume that there won't be much in terms of graphical improvement for any later systems, then why not drop the standards, make 100 into premiums and add 100 new to the series, and sell it. There would be about 600 cars at launch (a sizeable amount), and the rest could be created as premiums afterwards.

As pointed out, you could get your standard fix in GT6 until they are added back in.

 

[DingoDile]

We'll have GT5,6 premium cars in GT7 for sure. they're amazing and lots of them are next gen ready IMO. but standards, not a chance!
I'll cut my head off if that happens!

 

[Mulan]

If you think about how good the graphics are on the PS4, and assume that there won't be much in terms of graphical improvement for any later systems, then why not drop the standards, make 100 into premiums and add 100 new to the series, and sell it. There would be about 600 cars at launch (a sizeable amount), and the rest could be created as premiums afterwards.

As pointed out, you could get your standard fix in GT6 until they are added back in.

For PS4 if you really want next gen then GT6 premiums are not good enough. If they drop all the standards then they better have premiums above the premiums and nothing else. It must be done 100% or GT5/6 premiums are new standards in GT7and in that case i want the rest too since it was ok to play them together. And if we are lucky of course they will fix the cars a bit so they work in the light/shadows and tracks GT7 brings. But again, please let them put them as DLC, that is the best. If they release a coursemaker there is plenty of fun making tracks for oldschool cars.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I wonder what would happen if PD decided to release upgraded standards (Ruf quality in GT6)in 10 car packs as GT7 DLC for $5. I'm guessing that wouldn't set any sales records.