Iran

[Omnis]

Obama and suppressing ideas?

lulz

Releasing a paper statement is not enough. Obama might be able to use his mouth if it wasn't so full of ice cream.

Haha. So then you understand how ridiculous it is for the House to criticize Iran? We can. They can't.

 

[Solid Fro]

H.R. 560 says: "Expressing support for all Iranian citizens who embrace the values of freedom, human rights, civil liberties, and rule of law, and for other purposes."

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll411.xml

Not exactly a criticism.

Yes, the House needs to be doing more important stuff with this country, however, to vote nay against that wording doesn't fly with me.

 

[Omnis]

H.R. 560 says: "Expressing support for all Iranian citizens who embrace the values of freedom, human rights, civil liberties, and rule of law, and for other purposes."

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll411.xml

Not exactly a criticism.

Yes, the House needs to be doing more important stuff with this country, however, to vote nay against that wording doesn't fly with me.

That's just the title. You forgot the actual bill part:

... (2) condemns the ongoing violence against demonstrators by the Government of Iran and pro-government militias, as well as the ongoing government suppression of independent electronic communication through interference with the Internet and cellphones; and...

Over here they reward violence against demonstrators with paid vacation.

Edit: as a general rule, it's always best to be wary of the "... and for other purposes" part of a title.

 

[Solid Fro]

I read it over and over again and I see no problem with the bill.

 

[Keef]

There is a problem with the bill. The problem is that "condemning" any action of another country wasn't one of the things our Founding Fathers ever had in mind, because they knew it would only lead to more problems.

The other problem is the "other purposes" part that Omnis cites. That is a very big problem. There could be any meaning to "other purposes", and you know damn well that the government will squeeze every last drop out of those vague words in order to take advantage of every little thing they can. You know damn well. And that is a problem.

 

[Solid Fro]

Other purposes like supporting Twinkies to be thrown at the Mullahs? That would be awesome.

From Time.com:

Iranian state television yesterday broadcast the soap operas and covered the news about Rafael Nadal's withdrawal from Wimbledon and Pakistani operations against the Taliban as if they were the most important stories in the world. Meanwhile, arriving over the internet transom, rough and insistent and bloody, were the tiny electronic dispatches from protesters forced off the streets of Tehran, shaky videos from a city screaming for help.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1906040,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

Kinda like this country. The Mainstream Media covers up for The Messiah. The firing of an inspector general for no apparent reason? $134 billion dollars worth of treasury bonds found in Italy? NAH!!! Lindsay Lohan parties with Ryan Seacrest... lust or business? Tonight at 11!

From CNN.com:

Amid the hundreds of images of Saturday's crackdown on protesters in Iran that were distributed to the world over the Internet, it was the graphic video showing the dying moments of a young woman shot in the heart that touched a nerve for many people around the world...

"The final moments of her tender young life leaked into the pavement of Karegeh Street today, captured by cell phone cameras," the unnamed blogger posted on Newsvine.com. "And not long after, took on new life, flickering across computer screens around the world on YouTube, and even CNN."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/21/iran.woman.twitter/index.html

 

[YSSMAN]

You're kidding yourself if you think we don't have people in Iran. But, yeah, Iran blaming us is pretty funny.

Oh, I know we have "people" in Iran, but the blame game is awesome. I was most surprised by the attacks of the British, whom have been pretty quiet as far as I can tell about this. Even more strange has been how vocal the Germans and French have been.

The BBC's lead correspondant in Iran is being kicked out, given only 24 hours to GTFO. CNN, from what I saw last night and today, has not been able to report out of Iran either - as all foreign media sources must have approval from the government before broadcasting.

This week should be interesting, but based on today, I'm not sure what to make of the situation any longer.

 

[Speedy Samurai]

Kinda like this country. The Mainstream Media covers up for The Messiah. The firing of an inspector general for no apparent reason? $134 billion dollars worth of treasury bonds found in Italy?

You mean the fake ones?

 

[Solid Fro]

You mean the fake ones?

I sure would hope so. Two Japanese dudes aren't supposed to have them, only state governments. If they are fake, where did they get the copies?

 

[Vasco]

I sure would hope so. Two Japanese dudes aren't supposed to have them, only state governments. If they are fake, where did they get the copies?

A quick search yielded (haha what a great pun):

http://business.smh.com.au/business/smuggled-us134b-in-bonds-are-fakes-20090620-crke.html

Maybe that will help ease your mind on this huge conspiracy! 👍

Also on topic, god damn that video seems like heavy stuff, the pictures were enough for me.

 

[DK]

Sorry if I bumped the thread, but I'm surprised Fox didn't dress this guy in the video as your stereotypical "ghetto" black man.

On Iran:

It's a delicate situation. Invade or introduce (harsher) sanctions, and the hard-liners will say, "Ha! We told you America are imperialist bastards (<<< please tell me that word will not get me banned )!" Result? Hard-liners get more support. Plus I doubt they'll hesitate to nuke Israel. Open up talks, and the Iranian public will think the West aren't so bad. Unless Adolf Mahmoud Hitler Ahmadinejibad feeds them a load of bullcrap propaganda, telling them that the West want to take over the world...like this guy. \/

(added to lighten the mood)

 

[Dotini]

It's time to bump this moribund thread.

There are tremors all over the global web indicating an imminent attack on Iran by Israel. The implications for us are beyond profound.

In my opinion, it's not cast in stone as Obama could stop it with sufficiently assertive demands on Netanyahu.

Here is a a sober assessment by retired intelligence officers.
http://original.antiwar.com/mcgovern/2010/08/03/a-warning-to-the-president/

 

[Danoff]

I'm fine with it if Israel wants to do a little strategic bombing run on Iran's nuclear facilities. They have bigger stones than we do apparently, and are willing to pull something like this off. I'd also be fine if WE did a little strategic bombing run on Iran's nuclear facilities and let Israel stand up and take credit for it (you know, to make sure it gets done right).

Iran is doing some bad things - things that weaken US and UN diplomacy efforts. I'd be quite happy to see someone step up and spank them for it.

 

[Omnis]

For our sake I hope it's Israel.

 

[Dotini]

That would suit me fine too - if we we were dealing with an infant

Someone who's been there once said, "In war, the enemy get's a vote".

In other words, once you do go in, better be ready for just about anything, including the bad, to happen.

I don't deny there's plenty of excuses for it. But we have a recent, very bad habit of ignoring the risks of our actions.

 

[Danoff]

What risks have we been ignoring exactly?

 

[Dotini]

Great question!

But whatever other qualities I have, I'm no general. We should consult the authorities. Did you read the article I posted?

 

[Omnis]

Global kebab shortage?

 

[hambone8611]

I'm fine with it if Israel wants to do a little strategic bombing run on Iran's nuclear facilities. They have bigger stones than we do apparently, and are willing to pull something like this off. I'd also be fine if WE did a little strategic bombing run on Iran's nuclear facilities and let Israel stand up and take credit for it (you know, to make sure it gets done right).

Iran is doing some bad things - things that weaken US and UN diplomacy efforts. I'd be quite happy to see someone step up and spank them for it.

Agreed however I don’t think Israel needs any help with precision bombing from us.

 

[Omnis]

Found this on the LRC Blog:

War propaganda debunked in under seven minutes.

 

[Dotini]

This excellent little video was music to my ears. Thanks, Omnis!

If what he said was true, then it is clear that an attack by Israel on Iran would be an unjustifiable act of naked aggression, would lead to a wider regional war involving heavy military and political setbacks for the US, and would cause massive new economic harm to western interests.

Naturally, as a competitive male involved in motor racing, I'm a big fan of loud noises and stinky smoke. Sometimes wars are necessary in self-defense. But here let us hope that poor paranoid little Israel chooses the path of sanity, and not genocide, suicide and perpetual dishonor. Obama must put his Wellington on Netanyahu's neck.

 

[Danoff]

20% enrichment is sufficient for nuclear weapons. So the guy in Omnis' video admitted that Iran is enriching uranium sufficiently to create a nuclear weapon.

I don't know how he can sit there and say that Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapons program when they're enriching weapons-usable uranium. What's the argument here, that if they had a weapons development program we'd definitely know about it? We actually KNOW about weapons-usable uranium enrichment.

 

[Omnis]

Apparently, 20% enrichment is necessary for their medical reactor. They're not enriching all of their fuel. Just enough to power the reactor for 10 years. It's probably enough to make a bomb, but they have no warhead or delivery vehicle. Iran is also a very liberal country by islamic standards. Why would they make a bomb and risk total annihilation as a response?

 

[Touring Mars]

Why would they make a bomb and risk total annihilation as a response?

Perhaps because their principal enemies, Israel (and by extension, also the USA), have nuclear weapons... I reckon that Iran ought not to be developing or planning to develop nuclear weapons because they are signatories of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty - but it doesn't help when your sworn enemies and near-neighbours didn't bother to sign up to that treaty and have armed themselves to the teeth with nuclear weapons.

 

[Omnis]

I guess Iran can't help the fact that the USA and Israel think they're making a bomb. They've proven that they aren't. What else can they do?

Also, here is an excellent article (although I think a few months old) about Iran's medical reactor and why they are so insistent on producing their own supply of radioactive materials and medical isotopes: http://forden.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/2492/a-primer-on-irans-medical-reactor

Similar concerns are also presented in the article's comments section.

 

[Danoff]

Israel obviously thinks otherwise (or isn't happy with weapons-usable uranium enrichment). Either way, if they want to send a strike force, more power to them. I hope their intel justifies it.

I don't assume we know everything there is to know, and Iran certainly does have plenty of reasons to want to break the NPT. If we, or Israel, have intel that suggests Iran is breaking the NPT, I see no problem with a few very strategically placed explosives as a reminder.


BTW - I assume, and I think we all should, that a country that is sitting on a bajillion barrels of oil who decides to start a nuclear program has other ideas about the uses of that program. I fully assume that Iran is developing nuclear weapons. The only question left in my mind is whether Israel knows what to blow up.

 

[Touring Mars]

If we, or Israel, have intel that suggests Iran is breaking the NPT, I see no problem with a few very strategically placed explosives as a reminder.

It would be the very height of hypocrisy for Israel to decry a country for breaking the NPT considering they didn't even sign it in the first place. The fact is, there is no evidence that Iran has a nuclear weapons program (let alone a weapon), whereas there is ample evidence that Israel does. So why isn't there more concern about a belligerent religious fundamentalist regime that actually has nuclear weapons rather than one that almost certainly hasn't?

It is quite right that the international community pressure Iran to abide by their agreements - but at the same time, Israel's stance cannot be ignored.

 

[Omnis]

BTW - I assume, and I think we all should, that a country that is sitting on a bajillion barrels of oil who decides to start a nuclear program has other ideas about the uses of that program. I fully assume that Iran is developing nuclear weapons. The only question left in my mind is whether Israel knows what to blow up.

What we know for sure is that it's developing medical isotopes instead of having to import them at tremendous cost considering time sensitivity. Also, if they could use nuclear power instead of oil so that they could sell their oil, why wouldn't they? I mean, there's intel and then there's assumption. Like you said, if someone's going to start a war, I hope to god it's based on the former.

It would probably be more reassuring if it were some private company doing this stuff instead of the Iranian government. Let's start a business: Persian RadioMed Corp.

 

[Keef]

Why are we arguing in this thread about whether or not they are or are not planning nuclear weapons when the American intelligence community has officially stated that they are not?

If anything would convince me to go buy myself a gun it would be people who have guns threatening to harm me when I don't actually have a gun to defend myself with, first and foremost, much less attack them. I would arm myself to the teeth and prepare for a firefight. I'm surprised Iran hasn't done that yet - you can bet that if they have done it our ridiculous assortment of intelligence agencies would have found out about it by now. This is another example of our escalating tensions in the Middle East to the point where people start fighting back. If we attacked Iran it would bite us in the ass hard, hurting our situation over there even more and costing us more money. The intelligence shows that it would be a total waste of resources.

You mention that Israel thinks otherwise, or isn't happy with what they think Iran is doing. Israel often thinks otherwise and isn't happy with a lot of things. That tiny little country is tough and arrogant, and I'm surprised they haven't been wiped off the map yet. The situations they get themselves into make them a dangerous ally for us to have.

 

[Danoff]

It would be the very height of hypocrisy for Israel to decry a country for breaking the NPT considering they didn't even sign it in the first place.

The thing is, if Iran hadn't signed in the first place, I'd say nobody had any grounds to do anything against them developing nukes. Maybe the US doesn't sign if Iran (or North Korea, or whoever) doesn't sign. We give concessions in exchange for concessions by others. We didn't ask for any from Israel.