Israel - Palestine discussion thread

[TenEightyOne]

They already have this tecnology for defence.

http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/i...ll-make-sci-fi-movies-look-like-the-stone-age

I detect a hint of pro-Israeli bias on that page

That system isn't operational but it was demonstrated this year at the Singapore Airshow (as the video said).

EDIT: Just saw your earlier laser-fail... no, dude. Just... just no.

 

[Dennisch]

Could be, but shouldn't it have any trace of smoke?

The Jewish Press had the same article, but it dissapeared.

Oh, you were seriously believing that was a laser.
You should research stuff like that before posting it.

 

[LeoStrop]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Testing weaponry on situations like that is not a new subject.

But as other has said, it wouldn't be so effective.

And i did a research, what i found was a very real technology, although it doesn't prove the truthfulness of that article.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-DEW-HEL-Analysis.html

The ATL program is an effort to exploit the technology developed for the ABL to provide a cheaper and smaller system, suitable for carriage on aircraft such as the AC-130 Spectre or V-22 Osprey, as a close air support weapon. In January 2006, U.S. Air Force's 46th Test Wing provided Boeing with a C-130HHercules for trials of the prototype weapon, claimed to be in the MegaWatt class, using COIL technology. The intent was to mount the laser prototype in the aircraft and perform lethality trials in 2007 against a range of ground targets. L-3 Communications/Brashear developed the optical turret, and the laser is being built by AFRL at Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico. The laser was successfully fired in May, 2008.

That looks like a giant laser for me.

 

[zzz_pt]

http://thebulletin.org/evidence-shows-iron-dome-not-working7318


and

 

[BobK]

And how do you expect Hamas to conduct missile attacks not anywhere near civilians when they are all trapped within the same cage?

They could, I dunno, like maybe not launch rockets in the first place?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Testing weaponry on situations like that is not a new subject.

But as other has said, it wouldn't be so effective.

And i did a research, what i found was a very real technology, although it doesn't prove the truthfulness of that article.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-DEW-HEL-Analysis.html

That looks like a giant laser for me.

Science isn't your forte, I mean I'm just going to take an educated guess on that...you do realize that those lasers you are showing are not actually visible and are dramatized renderings. You'd need something that actually can take images in that color spectrum to work. Also as @Exorcet said the YAL-1 and the big crow were massive laser airborne units that were designed to destroy missiles and didn't have the power to "death ray" a city block. Even if the Tactical Laser C-130 was being used in Israel it goes against your argument that it's over kill since it's a better minimized damage than air-to-surface pay loads.

Also tell me how does one take an image of focused light energy at the speed it goes with a camera that doesn't have the ability to work in that spectrum?

 

[sumbrownkid]

They could, I dunno, like maybe not launch rockets in the first place?

Haha good joke. They'll keep launching them as long as they still exist. And so long as Gaza exists, so will they.

 

[LeoStrop]

Science isn't your forte, I mean I'm just going to take an educated guess on that...you do realize that those lasers you are showing are not actually visible and are dramatized renderings. You'd need something that actually can take images in that color spectrum to work. Also as @Exorcet said the YAL-1 and the big crow were massive laser airborne units that were designed to destroy missiles and didn't have the power to "death ray" a city block. Even if the Tactical Laser C-130 was being used in Israel it goes against your argument that it's over kill since it's a better minimized damage than air-to-surface pay loads.

Also tell me how does one take an image of focused light energy at the speed it goes with a camera that doesn't have the ability to work in that spectrum?

Yes I know they are renderings, and i agree, chemical oxygen iodine laser can’t be seen by naked eyes, and this is mainly what is being used. Or at least, what we know that is being used.

http://future-weapons.org/high-energy-liquid-laser-area-defense-system-hellads/

But there are types of diode lasers, that can produce a ray of light. Diode lasers are used on fiber technology, which is also being under development by the army:

http://global.ofweek.com/news/Lockheed-Martin-wins-25M-fiber-laser-contract-11243

Lockheed Martin, the one that makes planes and F35 jets, and developer of the such laser weapons.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/what-we-do/aerospace-defense.html

I mean, the development of such weapons is going on for quite a while, and the infos we have today are not updated as it's clearly a confidential subject.

Sorry, i didn't mean to sound crazy.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Also tell me how does one take an image of focused light energy at the speed it goes with a camera that doesn't have the ability to work in that spectrum?

Just got to stand in the right place, be ready for the shot and have at least one Wizardry qualification.

 

[HKS racer]

I have a little though about this situation.
We know what Palestine faced in the last 60 years is the direct consequence of WW2. After holocaust Jews needed a place to settle and they went there. I don't think we have the right to say the were right or wrong, they needed a place to survive since Europe was no longer a safe option.

Unfortunately Palestine paid the biggest price and I can't blame them if they are angry. But they also should blame Germany for the holocaust instead of (as some extremist said) it never happen'd. The World is a limited place with limited territory Now Israel plan is to conquer the remaining territory step-by-step, mini-war after mini-war. They have the military, economic and media power to do that. No one can really stop them. US, UK and EU occasionally say a few demagogic, diplomatic palliative crap to masses of people that don't really care what's going on because they are concentrated in their small world of rat race.

I'm not gonna take anyone side. I just say peace in this World is a delicate balance, unfortunately I realize it can't last forever. I saw the pain of Holocaust on documentaries. I see the pain of Palastinian on TV these days. I see the hypocrisy of professors, opinionists, journalists and extremists blaterating their crap trying to justify this and that.

 

[Famine]

Now Israel plan is to conquer the remaining territory step-by-step, mini-war after mini-war.

That's a terrible plan since they already did that in 1967 (and more - they took the entire Sinai Peninsula from Egypt) and then gave it all back.

 

[HKS racer]

That's a terrible plan since they already did that in 1967 (and more - they took the entire Sinai Peninsula from Egypt) and then gave it all back.

The problem with conquering new territories is the death of innocents. Isreal blame Hamas to hide behind civils. But Isreal is bombing civils trying to EVENTUALLY drive out Hamas and his little group of extremists. It surely doesn't looks like the most surgical military tactis ever.

 

[Famine]

I'm not sure what that has to do with what I posted that necessitates quoting it.

Israel took the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and Sinai Peninsula in the Six Day War in 1967. They gave the all back - except the Golan Heights. West Bank went to Jordanian Palestinians, Gaza Strip to Egyptian Palestinians and Sinai Peninsula back to Egypt.

If Israel wanted those territories, conquering them by force 45 years ago was the time to keep them. Giving them back doesn't really fit with that plan.

 

[HKS racer]

I'm not sure what that has to do with what I posted that necessitates quoting it.

Israel took the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and Sinai Peninsula in the Six Day War in 1967. They gave the all back - except the Golan Heights. West Bank went to Jordanian Palestinians, Gaza Strip to Egyptian Palestinians and Sinai Peninsula back to Egypt.

If Israel wanted those territories, conquering them by force 45 years ago was the time to keep them. Giving them back doesn't really fit with that plan.

If it doesn't fit with the plan explain the logic of randomly bombing Gaza civils these days, not in 1967.

 

[Famine]

If it doesn't fit with the plan explain the logic of randomly bombing Gaza civils these days, not in 1967.

Citation needed for "randomly".

Incidentally, who was it that broke the 3 day ceasefire - and indeed every other ceasefire before and likely in the future?

 

[zzz_pt]

Israel broke and rejected ceasefires as well.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yes I know they are renderings, and i agree, chemical oxygen iodine laser can’t be seen by naked eyes, and this is mainly what is being used. Or at least, what we know that is being used.

Well unless you work at Oak Laboratory or White Sands or Los Alomos or Kirtland then not sure you or anyone else knows how ready other MASER or LASER devices are to becoming active. And really if you wanted to do it with such scrutiny you sure as hell wouldn't use a plane that is no longer in use and was never used for ground target in the first place as they supposedly know from the link you post prior. Also why not claim it was the C-130 instead of KC-135 that hasn't seen the light of day and the YAL-1 are both sitting in an air grave yard in Tuscon Arizona. They even have tours!

http://future-weapons.org/high-energy-liquid-laser-area-defense-system-hellads/

But there are types of diode lasers, that can produce a ray of light. Diode lasers are used on fiber technology, which is also being under development by the army:

Yeah thanks for the info, I already know this but sticking to the article and the claim the plane used supposedly didn't have this technology.

http://global.ofweek.com/news/Lockheed-Martin-wins-25M-fiber-laser-contract-11243

Lockheed Martin, the one that makes planes and F35 jets, and developer of the such laser weapons.

Yeah I know they make the F35, they made a ton of famous well known passenger planes and war planes, among other aerial vehicles. Not sure why you had to put that, the link would suffice.

Yeah R&D doesn't work like that, they wont the money to build the proposed plan that the military wants, after that it needs to be built (which going off their past major projects) will take quite some time. And even when it does become operational for the live testing face of development, no one that actually studies in the field would take it to a live area where failure or other unforeseen things can happen.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/what-we-do/aerospace-defense.html

I mean, the development of such weapons is going on for quite a while, and the infos we have today are not updated as it's clearly a confidential subject.

Sorry, i didn't mean to sound crazy.

Thanks for informing me of a company (which I already know about) and would like to work for one day, and have for the past five year. I'm not saying you sound crazy, just that your idea of how science and warfare works is quite skewed and just saying "oh look they're using a laser" as if it's that easy and with a nation not really known to do it or have great development of the technology. Also not to count the fact that the people actually studying the various fields that go with this or science in general, may feel a bit irritated that someone is going to indirectly make a joke of it all.

Also you didn't answer the question still, you started then stopped, yes even if there is focused energy that can be seen by the naked eye, the point is the how does one have the speed to captures it? I mean especially when they weren't expecting to see it since it's secret?

 

[LeoStrop]

Also you didn't answer the question still, you started then stopped, yes even if their is focused energy that can be seen by the naked eye, the point is the how does one have the speed to captures it? I mean especially when they weren't expecting to see it since it's secret?

Humm, really hard to tell, and i don't have a scientific response to that. But for the laser to be effective it has to stay on target for at least a few seconds, like the ones that shot down moving missiles. And i don't belive they have the power to destroy city blocks, but rather hit something that could explode, as it is made to be a surgical weapon.

That picture can be just a rocket strike or not, maybe i should have posted only the link for the article, that caught my attention, only because recently i have seen informations of some unusual attacks and wounds that looked like burns from electricity.

The laser technology is also being introduce in F35s, and in 2012 Israel have won the right to install their own electronic warfare on these jets, but i don't now what type of destructive power it may have, or what type of laser is being used.

I will try to find a little bit more of that technology, and what it can do. Will reply to you if i found something more conclusive.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Humm, really hard to tell, and i don't have a scientific response to that. But for the laser to be effective it has to stay on target for at least a few seconds, like the ones that shot down moving missiles. And i don't belive they have the power to destroy city blocks, but rather hit something that could explode, as it is made to be a surgical weapon.

They have missiles that already do this, a laser would just be even more precision driven

That picture can be just a rocket strike or not, maybe i should have posted only the link for the article, that caught my attention, only because recently i have seen informations of some unusual attacks and wounds that looked like burns from electricity.

It is and supposedly it's from the AP and I couldn't find any articles talking about "laser usage in Israel" and they've been keen on telling the bad stuff and good stuff about Israel. I've never even heard of radiation burns called or looked at as electrical. I'm not in the medical field so I can't fully comment.

The laser technology is also being introduce in F35s, and in 2012 Israel have won the right to install their own electronic warfare on these jets, but i don't now what type of destructive power it may have.

...Laser jamming defense electronics on jets isn't the same concept that you're trying to claim here, nor is the Israeli one I'm willing to bet. All the system is is another form of electronic jamming just using lasers to defeat track on targets of guidance missiles, not shoot them out of the sky.

I will try to find a little bit more of that technology, and what it can do. Will reply to you if i found something more conclusive.

You do that.

 

[HKS racer]

Citation needed for "randomly".

If you kill civils when your planes drop the bombs I hope it's by mistake.
Because if do it on purpose you are a criminal of war, no different than all other criminals of war in human history.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Humm, really hard to tell, and i don't have a scientific response to that. But for the laser to be effective it has to stay on target for at least a few seconds, like the ones that shot down moving missiles. And i don't belive they have the power to destroy city blocks, but rather hit something that could explode, as it is made to be a surgical weapon.

Depends on the laser of course. The problem is that a laser on an aircraft moving at 300mph (bare minimum, and most pilots would rather be travelling a lot faster) is hard to focus on a 1mm spot for any length of time... that's about 150,000mm per second that the beam source is travelling at.

That picture can be just a rocket strike or not, maybe i should have posted only the link for the article, that caught my attention, only because recently i have seen informations of some unusual attacks and wounds that looked like burns from electricity.

So that's two sources you need. That picture is, I'm certain, a rocket strike that's either retouched or luckily exposed.

The laser technology is also being introduce in F35s

You can say that about any modern fighter/bomber/recon platforms, if this technology becomes workable enough (ie portable, powerful, accurate, re-usable) then it will be modified for every platform. Lockheed promise they can bolt the world to an F35 at the moment, it's costing them a lot and they need sales of all three types in as many spheres as possible.

and in 2012 Israel have won the right to install their own electronic warfare on these jets,

What do you mean by that? How did they not have the right before? Israel's development of homegrown EW goes back, just to my knowledge, as far back as their acquisition of Eagle back in the late 70s. They were most likely developing before that time too, so what happened in 2012?

 

[Famine]

If you kill civils when your planes drop the bombs I hope it's by mistake.
Because if do it on purpose you are a criminal of war, no different than all other criminals of war in human history.

I'm glad you agree that Hamas are war criminals.

 

[HKS racer]

I'm glad you agree that Hamas are war criminals.

The same applies to Israel governament when they kill civils.

 

[Famine]

The same applies to Israel governament when they kill civils.

If they're doing it on purpose, as you assume. Israel say they aren't, but they don't really care all that much either way, which just makes them very unpleasant.

Hamas, of course, are deliberately aiming for civilians as part of their charter to wipe out Israel and Jews. So it's good to see you agree that Hamas are war criminals.

 

[HKS racer]

If they're doing it on purpose, as you assume. Israel say they aren't, but they don't really care all that much either way, which just makes them very unpleasant.

Hamas, of course, are deliberately aiming for civilians as part of their charter to wipe out Israel and Jews. So it's good to see you agree that Hamas are war criminals.

Yes of course I agree Hamas are war criminals but Israel are killing more innocents, even if they are (evenutally) not doing it on purpose. Let me say they are "incredibly unprecise" with their bombings.

 

[Famine]

Yes of course I agree Hamas are war criminals but Israel are killing more innocents, even if they are (evenutally) not doing it on purpose. Let me say they are "incredibly unprecise" with their bombings.

I think they're quite precise - they're just not bothered about who else they kill in order to kill their targets. Again, this merely makes them quite unpleasant.

Hamas are similarly not that bothered about killing Palestinian civilians - even murdering families who object to them launching their missiles from near their homes and killing Palestinians who they suspect of collaboration with Israel (read: not supporting Hamas' missile strikes against Israel) during the lulls in interstate violence. So they're quite terroristy on both fronts.

 

[Carbonox]

Yes of course I agree Hamas are war criminals but Israel are killing more innocents, even if they are (evenutally) not doing it on purpose. Let me say they are "incredibly unprecise" with their bombings.

I don't like repeating what people have said in this thread for ages, but the bolded part is kind of a direct result from Israel's missiles being of much higher quality than Hamas's.

 

[LeoStrop]

Depends on the laser of course. The problem is that a laser on an aircraft moving at 300mph (bare minimum, and most pilots would rather be travelling a lot faster) is hard to focus on a 1mm spot for any length of time... that's about 150,000mm per second that the beam source is travelling at.

Well, if the beam is pointed and fixed on a target, the only speed would be of the arc that the plane is travelling(the longer the distance, less speed will be presented), and the only thing that will move is the angle that the beam is making. It should be really hard to stay pointed on a target, but i think if they already can make it, pointing into a missile, from a ship or from a moving airplane into a moving target, they can make it on a stationary target. But i am not an expert on that.

What do you mean by that? How did they not have the right before? Israel's development of homegrown EW goes back, just to my knowledge, as far back as their acquisition of Eagle back in the late 70s. They were most likely developing before that time too, so what happened in 2012?

I don't now what caused the hesition on pentagon to not let Israel use it's system on the first place. I gave that information only for curiosity, because if they fit a laser in a F35, it probably won't be close of what a C-130 can carry.
But here it is, if you are interested:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jetfighter.html

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Since people don't believe in the roof knock and warning given to "civilians" on the ground in Gaza here is a first hand video from CNN. I'd also like to note the precision of these bombs as well when you look at it hitting the target and thus not taking out the buildings next to it (being too big of a payload), and traffic going along as normal just to the left as the bomb hits. It was also reported that the knock (which didn't do any damage to the building it seems) came and then seven minutes later as Israel has been claiming did the actual strike come down.

 

[squadops]

I don't now what caused the hesition on pentagon to not let Israel use it's system on the first place......

And if the U.S. did not give permission?

Since people don't believe in the roof knock and warning given to "civilians" on the ground in Gaza here is a first hand video from CNN.

Forgot the link?