Make all cars available from the start?

[FS7]

Have all the people who are vouching for 'All Cars Available At The Start' played let's say any of the PS1 and/or PS2 GT titles?

I played GT3/GT4 on PS2, I also played other racing series on PS2 such as Toca Race Driver, F1, WRC, Colin McRae, NFS, Burnout, Midnight Club, and the Forza & PRG games on the original Xbox.
Grinding to unlock stuff wasn't as bad back then because I didn't have a full time job and bills to pay and had a lot more free time than I have today, but the whole "grind to unlock stuff" process got old after a while.
Nowadays I'd rather spend my time racing, not grinding. That's one of the things I love about the F1 & WRC games, they have a career mode where one can start from the bottom and work their way up, but it's optional, I can simply skip that and do custom races/championships with whatever car/track I like.

I don't mind PD keeping the traditional GT mode in future GT games but ideally they should add alternate ways for people to play the game and access all the content the game has to offer.

 

[Exorcet]

Random question....

Have all the people who are vouching for 'All Cars Available At The Start' played let's say any of the PS1 and/or PS2 GT titles?

Same question to the people saying no to such.

I've been playing GT since the GT PS Underground demo disk with 2 or 3 cars. I still own GT1, 2, 3, 4, 5P, and 5. Never bought 6. Even back with GT1 there was annoyance to be had with locked cars, and the impact on gameplay wasn't much different from modern GT games. Find the race with best payout, win, repeat.

There were also other games without a credit system, for me at the time it was namely USNF97. A wonderful game that credits would have only bogged down. Free play is nothing new, and in my eyes it has never been a bad idea.

 

[Johnnypenso]

....Oh man this thread again? I thought it slinked off to the inky black depth of GTP long time ago.

PCars are just around the corner, isn't it. I saw the car list. It's......threadbare, to be honest.
If it just had a more substantial variety of car manufactures....
PCars can go down the route of having all cars available from the get-go because of its smaller car set, isn't it.

Hah, imagine, Kaz is trying to force you into buying a Fit or a Miata, or a Skyline, but if you have all the cars unlocked from the beginning, NO ONE will drive them!!

And that renders the half of cars in the game nothing more than (digital) paperweight, ain't it.

If you have to force people to drive cars through your career mode, that doesn't say much for the car list does it? Any solution (eg. little used cars)that involves forcing people to complete events to "enjoy" cars isn't much of a solution in my eyes. There are far more positive ways to go about accomplishing that goal, if indeed that is a goal of the game.

Well thats the way it is, you've played the game, so move on to another if thats how you feel.

Which is contrary to PD's desired outcome is it not?

 

[Nielsen]

I think they should in Arcade Mode because not all players, such as my nephew, can invest the time and effort required to obtain and drive the most sophisticated cars. I just don't see it happening when considering how GT6 introduced purchasable credits through the PS Store.

 

[SVPSkins]

Which is contrary to PD's desired outcome is it not?

Well you bought the game, you've played it. i think PD did a good job at for filling there desire but the trouble here is you're not happy with its 18 year old base game design. something no one has had problems with all these years. so why now? it works so why change it?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well you bought the game, you've played it. i think PD did a good job at for filling there desire but the trouble here is you're not happy with its 18 year old base game design. something no one has had problems with all these years. so why now? it works so why change it?

Why now? Because I'm not the same age or person I was 18 years ago. Are you? It works for you, it doesn't work for many of us who want to just plug in and play, race online, tune etc. Maybe run a career race here and there and that's it. We don't want to be forced to slog through a career mode, even if it's spectacular, to get to the cars we want to drive.

And again I'll ask, how is your game affected, so long as you get to play the way you want and I get to play the way I want? How is the game worse if everyone has a choice to play the way that makes them the happiest? How is that bad for PD in any way?

 

[CBH]

Well you bought the game, you've played it. i think PD did a good job at for filling there desire but the trouble here is you're not happy with its 18 year old base game design. something no one has had problems with all these years. so why now? it works so why change it?

Good point.

 

[Exorcet]

base game design. something no one has had problems with all these years.

And where did this happen?

Even if that was the case, why does that matter at all? It clearly does not work, or no one would be complaining.

 

[Rautz]

I was pro lock cars at the beginning. Re-examining this though I realize for me the fun isnt getting the car(when I was young the fantasy of buying the cars I wanted to drive around the streets in real life was part of the reason I liked the original GT... FC & FD RX7s, WRXs, the Japanese list etc ).

Growing up with this franchise I want to just race any damn car I can. Heck there are licences to limit where we can race from the start and there are race regulations to limit what we can race. Im sure there is something else that could be added to replace buying/unlocking vehicles to give a sense of achievement.

 

[Tornado]

Well you bought the game, you've played it. i think PD did a good job at for filling there desire but the trouble here is you're not happy with its 18 year old base game design. something no one has had problems with all these years. so why now? it works so why change it?

For starters those other games were better designed in single player than GT6 and especially GT5 were.

 

[SVPSkins]

Why now? Because I'm not the same age or person I was 18 years ago. Are you? It works for you, it doesn't work for many of us who want to just plug in and play, race online, tune etc. Maybe run a career race here and there and that's it. We don't want to be forced to slog through a career mode, even if it's spectacular, to get to the cars we want to drive.

And again I'll ask, how is your game affected, so long as you get to play the way you want and I get to play the way I want? How is the game worse if everyone has a choice to play the way that makes them the happiest? How is that bad for PD in any way?

Because if you stop and think for a second, you will understand there are more people that like slogging and playing the game as it is now. That is what makes the GT series unique to other car games, why its so popular. You earn your way to the car you want to drive and not have it handed to you from the start. i've played games were all cars are there to be driven from the start and found alot jup straight to the powerful cars and they cant control them.

if you think about it, GT in the way its designed, is to make you earn the cars, in my view is like real life. You improve your driving as you work your way through the game and you earn you way to better things.

Plus i think the Voting above says it all really. people like it the way it is.

 

[Tornado]

GT series is pretty screwed if only 225 people buy the next game.

 

[Pseudopod]

Here's me changing my mind btw. All cars should be available in online mode, with tuning, and a decent selection of liveries.

I'm sure there are a lot of other things they could put as exclusive unlockables in career mode instead. Just let online players get what they need right off the bat.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Because if you stop and think for a second, you will understand there are more people that like slogging and playing the game as it is now. That is what makes the GT series unique to other car games, why its so popular. You earn your way to the car you want to drive and not have it handed to you from the start. i've played games were all cars are there to be driven from the start and found alot jup straight to the powerful cars and they cant control them.

if you think about it, GT in the way its designed, is to make you earn the cars, in my view is like real life. You improve your driving as you work your way through the game and you earn you way to better things.

Plus i think the Voting above says it all really. people like it the way it is.

Again, how is your game affected if I can play the way I want, and you can play the way you want? You get your career, you earn you garage, you grind your way to glory and I get everything from the start, go racing online and enjoy every moment of the game from day 1. Why are you so afraid of options?

 

[niky]

if you think about it, GT in the way its designed, is to make you earn the cars, in my view is like real life. You improve your driving as you work your way through the game and you earn you way to better things.

In real life, you spend several years in karts, then either move on to Autocross or amateur series, spending ridiculous sums of your own money building a car that's halfway competitive, hoping that your day job is enough to cover the cost of racing. If you're lucky and you reach national level, you're making enough money from sponsorship so that you don't go bankrupt if your car is in a fender bender.

If you're that one-in-a-million person who's actually skilled or connected enough to do so... you can move on to a professional series... driving in a single series with a single racing car for several years, making enough money to keep a roof over your head, but not much else.

Or if you're that one-in-a-hundred-million who can honestly be classified as a wizard, then maybe, just maybe, you make enough money from racing to buy cars just for the hell of it, like you can in Gran Turismo. Of course, you don't have to do a thousand races to get there. More like fifteen to twenty a year.

-

If you want something that's similar to a real world racing career, TOCA does a better job of it. In the real world, if you take your personal car racing on Sunday, whatever "prize" you get won't be enough to cover the cost of tires.

-

The only part of Turismo that's remotely anything like real life is the part that takes place on track. The rest? Laughable.

Plus i think the Voting above says it all really. people like it the way it is.

The poll doesn't tell you if people think unlocking cars should be easier, or if people think the game should concentrate on unlocking instead of buying, or if they think the monetary payout per race should be higher.

It just tells you certain people think that not all cars should be unlocked from the beginning.

 

[SVPSkins]

Again, how is your game affected if I can play the way I want, and you can play the way you want? You get your career, you earn you garage, you grind your way to glory and I get everything from the start, go racing online and enjoy every moment of the game from day 1. Why are you so afraid of options?

how can we both get what we want. its one way or the other. if you get the game how you want, i dont get what i want and vis versa and im not afraid of options. as there's only two. start from the start with all cars or start with no cars. you're making no sense at all now.

 

[Tornado]

That just shows that you're not actually reading what is being said.

 

[Johnnypenso]

how can we both get what we want. its one way or the other. if you get the game how you want, i dont get what i want and vis versa and im not afraid of options. as there's only two. start from the start with all cars or start with no cars. you're making no sense at all now.

You lost me. I choose all cars from the start. You don't. You choose to go the career route and skip whatever process gets you all cars from the start. All you need is a UI that takes you in one direction or the other, you don't need a rocket surgeon to design the game this way. The cars don't have to magically appear in your garage when you first start the game, it could be as simple has having a few options.

1. Standard GT Career Mode aka grinding.
2. New "Zero to Hero" type of career mode where all necessary cars to compete are provided and you work your way up in logical procession through a realistic career with long races and long seasons.
3. Make your own Career Mode.
4. Sandbox Mode. All cars all the time.

All modes can be completely independent of each other. You need never go into the Zero to Hero Career or the Sandbox or anywhere but option number 1. Win, win, win, win all around.

So if those are the options for example, how do you lose? How is the game worse off for having those options available to all players? How is any individual player affected by any other player making different choices?

 

[SVPSkins]

Sorry double post

 

[SVPSkins]

Why now? Because I'm not the same age or person I was 18 years ago. Are you? It works for you, it doesn't work for many of us who want to just plug in and play, race online, tune etc. Maybe run a career race here and there and that's it. We don't want to be forced to slog through a career mode, even if it's spectacular, to get to the cars we want to drive.

And again I'll ask, how is your game affected, so long as you get to play the way you want and I get to play the way I want? How is the game worse if everyone has a choice to play the way that makes them the happiest? How is that bad for PD in any way?

after that post you've now lost me. so im done here.

And where did this happen?

Even if that was the case, why does that matter at all? It clearly does not work, or no one would be complaining.

If it didn't work, why is GT still one of the best selling games?

 

[CBH]

I agree @SVPSkins

 

[niky]

If it didn't work, why is GT still one of the best selling games?

If it works, why'd they reduce the grind in GT6 versus GT5?

And why do you think they added seasonals and remote racing?

Clearly they know there's an issue, otherwise they wouldn't have tried tweaking the game progression after releasing 5.

-

I've been playing GT for decades. And it has changed a lot over those years. It's a mistake to think it has always been this way, and that it will always be this way. Or that it should always remain whatever way it is now.

 

[FS7]

something no one has had problems with all these years.

GT6 being the worse selling GT game is a clear sign that people do have a problem with the way the game is designed, and maybe PD should consider making improvements for the next game, they should pay attention to good features other companies have implemented in their games, and listen to community requests.

how can we both get what we want. its one way or the other. if you get the game how you want, i dont get what i want and vis versa

You can still play the game your way even if all cars are available from the start. You can still start from the bottom and work your way up. If you need the game to be locked up and force you to play in a specific way so that you have a sense of progress than the problem is not game design, it's player mentality.

 

[SVPSkins]

If it works, why'd they reduce the grind in GT6 versus GT5?

And why do you think they added seasonals and remote racing?

Clearly they know there's an issue, otherwise they wouldn't have tried tweaking the game progression after releasing 5.

-

I've been playing GT for decades. And it has changed a lot over those years. It's a mistake to think it has always been this way, and that it will always be this way. Or that it should always remain whatever way it is now.

I've been playing since GT1 and yes it has changed alot but it hasn't bothered me in the slightest. Regarding cutting down on the "Grind" was to focus on the Online feature after all we do now live in an Online gaming world but they also stayed true to the games original format for those that enjoyed the "Grind" to do a small part of it. I honestly dont see why people are making such a fuss. if you dont like the way the game is, then dont play it.

 

[CaptainTNT]

Ever since The Gran Turismo series had online play come in Gran Turismo 5 I have lost interest in racing the AI. These days I am spending more of my time driving with players. Unless my game credits run low I rarely race the AI at all in career mode in GT6. So for me if I had the option for a Sandbox mode in GT7 I would use it.

 

[Aloha62_2]

Nope, nope and nope. The progression from beater to beast has always been the best part of past GT's for me and it's already far too quick and easy to go from that first car (which you sadly could no longer choose sigh.) to having a garage full of lemans cars, fictional super-f1 cars and every thing between.

 

[Exorcet]

If it didn't work, why is GT still one of the best selling games?

That doesn't matter. You can see that it didn't work because people didn't universally like it from the beginning, so clearly there is something to improve upon. That there are other good aspects to the game doesn't make the flaws any less flaws.

I've been playing since GT1 and yes it has changed alot but it hasn't bothered me in the slightest.

It has also bothered lots of other people.

Regarding cutting down on the "Grind" was to focus on the Online feature after all we do now live in an Online gaming world but they also stayed true to the games original format for those that enjoyed the "Grind" to do a small part of it. I honestly dont see why people are making such a fuss. if you dont like the way the game is, then dont play it.

And if you like the game, encourage PD to make it better. The complaints with grinding don't relate to online. Grinding is just poor game design, though if people want to stick with it, there is no reason they can't after all cars are made instantly available. It's been said more times than it needs to be, but you can have every car and still retain the option to play GT the old way, so there isn't even anything to complain about.

Nope, nope and nope. The progression from beater to beast has always been the best part of past GT's for me and it's already far too quick and easy to go from that first car (which you sadly could no longer choose sigh.) to having a garage full of lemans cars, fictional super-f1 cars and every thing between.

Well then, just choose not to use the fast cars at the beginning.

 

[JR98]

That doesn't matter. You can see that it didn't work because people didn't universally like it from the beginning, so clearly there is something to improve upon. That there are other good aspects to the game doesn't make the flaws any less flaws.

If the system didn't work how come it was quickly adapted by games like Forza Motorsport, Midnight Club and Need For Speed?

 

[Exorcet]

I'm not denying that there is a following for the unlocking of cars, there are people clearly asking for it in this very thread and I'm not trying to take it away. The idea that things are just fine as is, and the desire to have more options is just whining is completely ridiculous though.

If I'm honest, when I see the lack of a free mode in games I'm very inclined to think the devs are unimaginative. A free mode is neither difficult or unheard of. Sadly Unlocking things is so ingrained into video games (and can also be profitable when you use it to charge highly unreasonable prices to get something) that many devs will keep throwing it in without even thinking about whether it's a good idea or not.

 

[JR98]

I'm not denying that there is a following for the unlocking of cars, there are people clearly asking for it in this very thread and I'm not trying to take it away. The idea that things are just fine as is, and the desire to have more options is just whining is completely ridiculous though.

If I'm honest, when I see the lack of a free mode in games I'm very inclined to think the devs are unimaginative. A free mode is neither difficult or unheard of. Sadly Unlocking things is so ingrained into video games (and can also be profitable when you use it to charge highly unreasonable prices to get something) that many devs will keep throwing it in without even thinking about whether it's a good idea or not.

Because games get boring when there is no incentive to keep playing! Do you think GT would have got this far if you could drive a Mazda 787B from the very start?