Make all cars available from the start?

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Make all cars available from the start?

  • Yes

  • No

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photonrider
Please . . . cease and desist.

There is no need to paint a picture of the poster.
Just address the concepts expressed in the post.
Thanks.
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It's sarcasm. If hall has a problem with it, and he never has before, I'm sure he'll let me know. Thanks anyway.
 
Justin
I don't think you got my point so I will try it again.

PD cannot afford to have another game with sales figures like GT6 has had. Therefor telling potential customers to go play some other game isn't a wise choice, especially when it's something as simple as making all the cars available for use right away (doubly so when you consider that one of the main competitors also has a livery editor, regular DLC and a trading system, all things that have been asked for quite a bit).

I understand people want to show off how good they are at a video game, but when it comes to racing games that usually happens on the track, not a virtual garage. Hell, I currently have both the Red Bull X cars and the new Chaparral in my garage (as does everyone else probably), neither of those mean anything though as I'm worthless behind the wheel of both.
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Why do you keep talking about sales figures for, it has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

The players that want all the cars available at the start of a Gran Turismo game well you just have to look elsewhere, because it is never going to happen in this game having an option, but once again some players are just plain lazy and they want everything for free so they can make the game very easy for them.
 
ironman44321
Let me try and clear this up, for everybody's sake. Make sure to correct me if I'm misrepresenting anyone, or any ideas.

You, and others on here are saying. That PD should give the option to have access to all of the cars, tuning, ect. without the need for any in game credits so that people can skip right to playing online without needing to go through A-spec.

The argument is that it is a win-win because PD will be adding a simple option that will allow more people to play the way the want without having any adverse effects on the rest of the game.

Once again, make sure to correct me if I've made any mistakes or if I've missed something.

The counter argument, at least from my perspective, is that there will be adverse effects to other areas of the game. Namely, A-spec mode itself.

So the debate at this point should really be about whether adding the option to skip the in game economy will have adverse effects on the rest of the game.
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Personally I'd like to have all cars & tracks available from the start in arcade mode (or free mode, or whatever you want to call it), with all options available (mechanical damage, tire wear, penalties, choose AI cars, etc), and also the option to add upgrades and change setup.
GT career mode would still be there for people who like to collect cars, or want to play events in a way that gives them a sense of progression.

For online, every car would be available from the start as courtesy cars with the option to upgrade them and change setup, but there would be an option for lobby host to block courtesy cars and limit car selection to career garage only, so that people who prefer to earn their cars in career mode can be matched with similar players.
Johnnypenso
I guess you weren't very happy when they added online racing to GT5 then eh Hall? After all, racing exclusively offline was the Gran Turismo way from GT1-4 or more than 10 years. I can't imagine how bitter you are about that massive change to the series. You must be apoplectic about the Seasonal Events which didn't exist in GT1-4, with their massive payouts that completely obliterate the need for grinding that was the Gran Turismo way for 10+ years along with making a complete mockery of the payouts in GT mode and the economy in general. MicroTransactions you say? Paying for credits? That's just not the Gran Turismo way, you have to earn it!!!! How dare Kaz allow people to pay for credits!!!! Those people are so lazy!!!
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You forgot to mention the lazy players like myself who got the anniversary edition and started the game with 25 cars in their garage.
hall90
once again some players are just plain lazy and they want everything for free so they can make the game very easy for them.
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You still don't get the point that some players care about racing, not grinding or car collecting.
Since you complain about making the game easy maybe you should join my GT6 club and post some laps in the Senna challenges I created.
 
hall90
Why do you keep talking about sales figures for, it has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

The players that want all the cars available at the start of a Gran Turismo game well you just have to look elsewhere, because it is never going to happen in this game having an option, but once again some players are just plain lazy and they want everything for free so they can make the game very easy for them.
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PDI and Sony are not making games to bring peace in the world... eople working at PDI have an income from the games they make to run their families...
If a games like GT6 is selling low amounts annd PDI realized that people hate the grinding career mode of GT6 sticking with that mode in GT7 would means to make less money than the money they needed to develop the game and that they will be all fired by the company owner... Bioware made a bad dragon age 2 and a bad mass effect 3... they learned the lesson cause they dont want to go out of business they changed their way with dragon age 3 that is making good numbers and a lot people are happy about this game... Why cannot PDI change their mind about the career, arcade and online modes of GT7??? Just to make happy you??? you already have GT6 for grinding... if you dont like GT7 to have a different career mode you can stay on GT6...

And never say never cause the GT series has changed much more than you think from the first incarnations on PS1 to GT6 on PS3 so if PDI qants to change something for good they wont ask you permissuion and you will have to accept it or leave it...

FYI i voted no all unlocks at the start of the game cause i do like to have some unlocks but the way you intend the unlocks (boring grinding to always the same races with poor IA) is not my idea of unlocks... I played other games that has unlocks like Shift and Shift2 and they are light years better in that way than GT5/6 cause you will naver have to repeat dozen of times the same race cause you will have just 1 prize car each 20 series you win...

I do understand who wants all unlocked at the start for the online mode cause when i play online too on my PC i dont have to grind for a week to maybe get the car i need for that LMP race with my friends on saturday... in GT6 i don't have a LMP car at the start of the game so if i buy GT6 3 months later than my friends and they tell me come to play with us saturday on Spa 20 laps with LMP cars i have to say "sorry before i have to grind 2 weeks before i can buy that kind of car"... UIs it normal this? limiting the fun of a paying customer cause the programmers aren't able to understand how the market and the online gaming works??? It's not being lazy, it's being human beings with a real life outside GT6 and PS3...
 
Riblo72
I do understand who wants all unlocked at the start for the online mode cause when i play online too on my PC i dont have to grind for a week to maybe get the car i need for that LMP race with my friends on saturday... in GT6 i don't have a LMP car at the start of the game so if i buy GT6 3 months later than my friends and they tell me come to play with us saturday on Spa 20 laps with LMP cars i have to say "sorry before i have to grind 2 weeks before i can buy that kind of car"... It's not being lazy, it's being human beings with a real life outside GT6 and PS3...
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Well said, this is the essential disconnect that proponents of GT continuing with career mode only don't understand. Many of us want to race online or just drive cars that we love and forcing us to go through the career or grind to do so, is a discouragement to gameplay and a discouragement to even purchasing the game. My free time, like yours, is invaluable, and in limited quantity. No way will I ever spend my precious free time "grinding" in a video game. Ever. Or doing events just to "earn money", that I don't enjoy. I earn real money in my real life and purchase games purely for enjoyment, the second they become a chore or anything like "work" they start collecting dust.
 
hall90
Why do you keep talking about sales figures for, it has nothing to do with what I am talking about.
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Do you want a Gran Turismo 8?

but once again some players are just plain lazy and they want everything for free so they can make the game very easy for them.
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First off, we are talking about a video game... on a website. Neither of us have a right to call anyone lazy.

Secondly, it's a RACING game, the easy part is getting the cars, even with the messed up GT economy people manage to get the leaderboard cars. The hard part starts when the countdown ends, regardless of when cars get unlocked.
 
hall90
I voted NO, because you should always start with a 20,000cr in the career mode and build you way up to buy cars and other things in the game as well.
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I enjoy the career mode, I think the pay out should be a lot more so the process doesn't get redundant, more million dollar purse winnings would make the game fun, purchasing your new car and modifying it is fun.
 
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Haulin_Hebrew
I enjoy the career mode, I think the pay out should be a lot more so the process doesn't get redundant, more million dollar purse winnings would make fun, purchasing your new car and modifying it is fun.
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Totally agree...
Yesterday i won the Pagani Huayra with the seasonal events and modded it...
This is how the career mode should be...
One car each Series or races with a good amouny of mpney to tune it...
And no more 20,000,000 credit cars... It is just insane...
 
Haulin_Hebrew
I enjoy the career mode, I think the pay out should be a lot more so the process doesn't get redundant, more million dollar purse winnings would make fun, purchasing your new car and modifying it is fun.
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I totally agree with you on a pay rise for winning races in GT7 in the career mode but not to much, and the seasonal races for GT7 should be where the credits are for winning but we just have to wait and see. I do not mine grinding for credits because it makes you a better driver competing in a race with the AI and getting use to that track and trying different cars for that event, and yes I know about the AI in the career mode races, but the AI can be a challenge in the A-Spec seasonal expert race. There is nothing wrong with grinding for credits to get the cars you want, and like I said just a few words in from the start of my post a pay rise but not to much in fine.
 
ironman44321
I explained it a little in an earlier post, I responded to you with this.

"My concern, is that PD adding a way around A-spec will mean that they've given up on it. That they'll just leave it as is and whoever likes it can play it, and anyone who doesn't can just avoid it."

To expand on that, the worry I have is that PD will look at the cost/benefit of making A-spec better as opposed to just letting players skip it, and decide that the extra benefit of improving the A-spec to a significant degree isn't worth the significant increase in resources it would take.

If PD were to greatly improve A-spec AND provide an option to let players have all of the cars at the start, I'd be okay with that.
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Then just do that. There's not much reason to expect otherwise. If they suddenly add free mode, would the people enjoying GT Mode suddenly switch play styles entirely? Not likely. They will still be there playing GT Mode and as a result there will still be a demand for GT Mode.

What you're bringing up sounds a lot like concerns people had over online. In fact you could even switch out Free Mode with Arcade Mode or the event creator that you defended before.

"If PD adds an event creator then they can decide that the pre-created races in GT Mode are no longer required"

To answer the question @Tornado had, I really don't think PD would have any trouble finding something else to spend their time and money on instead of A-spec. It's not like they have the time and man power to spare.
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It's not like Free Mode requires much effort though.

hall90
I totally agree with you on a pay rise for winning races in GT7 in the career mode but not to much, and the seasonal races for GT7 should be where the credits are for winning but we just have to wait and see. I do not mine grinding for credits because it makes you a better driver
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No it does not. Credits has nothing to do with skill, and if you're just grinding you're likely to take a fast car and overkill the competition. If you're going fast by memorizing the pack of AI cars and taking advantage of them, that not skilled racing.

competing in a race with the AI and getting use to that track and trying different cars for that event, and yes I know about the AI in the career mode races, but the AI can be a challenge in the A-Spec seasonal expert race.
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Here's a greater challenge, skipping GT Mode and racing online.

There is nothing wrong with grinding for credits to get the cars you want
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There is everything wrong with it. It's a pointless waste of time.
 
hall90
I totally agree with you on a pay rise for winning races in GT7 in the career mode but not to much, and the seasonal races for GT7 should be where the credits are for winning but we just have to wait and see. I do not mine grinding for credits because it makes you a better driver competing in a race with the AI and getting use to that track and trying different cars for that event, and yes I know about the AI in the career mode races, but the AI can be a challenge in the A-Spec seasonal expert race. There is nothing wrong with grinding for credits to get the cars you want, and like I said just a few words in from the start of my post a pay rise but not to much in fine.
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I wonder what you would have said if people questioned the GT5 economy at launch. No Seasonals, no login bonuses, no remote BSpec and online payouts were atrocious. You'd win multi-lap events online with 3/4 full grids and come out with $2500 for 15 minutes work. Guys further down the grid were scoring winnings in the hundreds of dollars - in a game with $20Million cars! The only way to make money early in GT5 was through BSpec (where the payouts were also pathetically low) and everyone that really wanted to make money was using elastic bands on the DS3 and using the Redbull to run around Indy.

The fact is that the game and the economy have changed drastically just in the last few years and there's no reason it can't evolve even further. It's at the point now where Seasonal payouts completely dwarf everything else, rendering all other winnings almost obsolete. You'd have to race online and win every race for 20-40 hours to equal 15 minutes on a Seasonal. If you are in the middle of your career and struggling to gain credits to buy new cars to race with and you do one Seasonal event, the Career struggle is now moot because you have tons of money for little effort. How does that make it a better game?
 
Exorcet
Here's a greater challenge, skipping GT Mode and racing online.
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True. Especially if it's in a lobby like mine where aids are banned (btw, when is PD going to put the option to ban automatic transmission?), and heavy damage & strong penalties are enabled.
 
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One of the historical challenges in GT is to earn all the cars. If all of these are available at start, you lose the charm of this magnificient game ;)
 
If you do not want to earn credits to buy cars and parts, well go and play other games. If you want to earn credits to buy cars and parts well go and play a Gran Turismo game. In a game there should never be an option to have all cars available from the start of a game in a Gran Turismo game that is so wrong, like I said if you do not want to earn credits in a game well don't play it and go play some other games it is very simple to do that.
 
Riblo72
This when GT was an offline game... Online gaming doesn't require grinding...
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GT is still an offline game, with a tacked on online component. One that has been done rather poorly according to most that I know who use it. That's the problem I seem to see here, those that want to treat it as an online only game expect it to be designed as an online game and it clearly isn't.
 
MustangManiac
GT is still an offline game, with a tacked on online component. One that has been done rather poorly according to most that I know who use it. That's the problem I seem to see here, those that want to treat it as an online only game expect it to be designed as an online game and it clearly isn't.
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Looking forward, why can't it be designed to accomodate both kinds of players?
 
I feel it's more online friendly than offline. Those who dont have an internet connection, are not getting the updates and playable vehicles and tracks. It's already more online than offline. It may be that the majority of players play offline, but online players are getting the most benefit at the moment.
 
05XR8
I feel it's more online friendly than offline. Those who dont have an internet connection, are not getting the updates and playable vehicles and tracks. It's already more online than offline. It may be that the majority of players play offline, but online players are getting the most benefit at the moment.
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There's no reason that both players can't be reasonably accomodated, the real question is, can PD design a career mode that's exciting, challenging for all levels of players and engaging enough for someone to forgo taking the optional route of "all cars from the start". If that's what you're worried about, I'd say that's a legitimate worry, but I think that worry exists whether regardless of what they do with online. For two games now, PD has gone down the path of dumbing down the offline game. If you look at the GT6 Trophy/Game completion data, and compare it to GT5 Data, you'll see that completion percentages are way up in GT6. The ratio of platinum trophy winners GT6/GT5 is more than 8:1. 6/10 reached the third level of the career in GT6, only 3/10 in GT5. More people are playing GT6 for much longer, which to me would reinforce the idea that people don't actually want difficulty in the career mode, they want something easy. That's your biggest worry right there, that they develop the game solely for the casual player.
 
Hey, no arguments from me. I'm all for options. My internet is horrible where I am. My last update was 1.14. So, I'm one of those missing "improvements".

On the flip, could it be people are playing the game longer because of higher payouts? Login bonus, RB 2mil Cr payout and Seasonal payouts?

PD do need to find a way to balance online options and options for offline replayability. I just bought Grid Autosport today and didn't have to buy a car plus I'm playing offline. Gran Turismo did a good job in the past with replayability. Today, The Real Driving Simulator should have even more options, more bases covered, as "veteran" players suit up and new players enter the GT World.

I mentioned in another thread, I do hope GT7 will knock our socks off.
 
Johnnypenso
Looking forward, why can't it be designed to accomodate both kinds of players?
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it couldn't or shouldn't, just saying why perhaps those of you who prefer online only probably feel your wants & needs are not being looked after by PD. Of course, seeing the state that GT is in with 6 I would have to say not much of anyone's wants or needs are being looked after much. Could be, given the rather poor reputation of most online gaming, Kaz would prefer that GT not be too strongly associated with it. That and a combination of the poor (worldwide) status of net connections...who knows? I would have to agree though, that the fear of those that the other portions of the game would suffer if they spent much more time on the online portion seems to have merit. PD doesn't have much of a reputation for managing the resources that they have. If they were to hire an "online team" to take care of that and not take away from the rest of the development, I certainly wouldn't have a problem with it.
 
Make it like the GT4 arcade mode. Make some of the cars (200) available at the start, then whenever you buy a car in career it will unlock in arcade. And the cars in Arcade cant be used in GT Life or online events. The cars you buy in GT life can only be able to be driven in online and seasonal events etc. Now that would persuade me enough to buy GT7, because to i loved the arcade in GT4 it was addictive and it was fun to look at all the cars and unlock them. Make it like that, please.
 
I don't really think online vs offline has much to do with it. I'd consider having all cars available an improvement for offline as well.

I think people on both sides here ultimately want something similar, a better game. One step to that is letting players play how they want rather than just giving everyone the same thing and hoping they ignore all the flaws and compromises.
 
WAS part of the game aspect. So many features have been lost, trying to supplant them with wings and paint chips instead of whole RM conversions and engine modifications, took that aspect away.

There isn't much to earn when I can buy each of the 300 cars in my garage, a fully tuned suspension with one win, when I have a 200% login bonus.

Just my opinion though.
 

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