Make all cars available from the start?
- Thread starter Earth
- 894 comments
- 37,782 views
Thomas__633
(Banned)
- 1,203
- Australia
Info... The first time I drove a LMP (the 908 FAP) I smashed it everywhere. It wasn't fun. Maybe because at that time I only had a Mazda2, a Impreza '98 and Evo 6 RS. (all stock). You need that progression to learn to drive.
- 4,992
- Nowhere special
- SweetLilPoppet
- SweetLilPoppet
No you don't. You need time driving the specific car you want to learn.
Thomas__633
(Banned)
- 1,203
- Australia
not really. To drive a 908 HDi FAP, you can learn in a Speed 8 or even a F1 GTR and still be able to drive a 908 with enough competence to clear single-player. The skill set is driving a fast car without dying violently and quickly, not the specific car, and learning that is forced by progression. That progression has, overall, helped me to be a better island.
- 316
- The Ozone
- steveween
I like the way things are. The anticipation of driving great cars that you had to earn, and then own, is much more rewarding to me. Other games just don't hit the mark in that regard. The prices could be adjusted a bit, but I don't want anything to do with all the cars being available at the start. I wish they would go back to having some hidden cars to increase the feeling of discovery and accomplishment. Finally winning the Tank Car in GT 4 is still one of the best moments I've had with a game.
- 7,625
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
Progression isn't a learning tool. You just did not have enough experience. It was driving that you made you a better driver, not progression. In any case, you could still progress even if all cars were available. Just pick something slow and go from there (not to mention that having all cars available doesn't prevent GT Mode from being in the game). If you want to learn how to drive a 908 though, racing in Civics is probably a waste of time.
Again, it's not mutually exclusive. All cars available doesn't prevent you from having a traditional GT Mode.
- 40,891
http://www.gran-turismo.com/us/news/02_0005990.html
I love how much practice and skill I needed to earn that car that they gave away to anyone who happened to own the game at the time, as well as anyone who just had the computer drive for them long enough.
- 2,534
- Johannesburg
- Tayeedz1
I'm making a presumption of fact in the next paragraph :
The majority that state all cars should be available are I believe part of the Hardcore Sim crowd or those that take a fancy to those sims. PC Sims as I should say. Am I wrong?
In those Sims, games, whatever you wanna call them, The cars are available. So to that majority, you'd rather want GT to follow that sim route no?
The fear of having all the cars available (unrestricted as well) and having the traditional GT Mode is that GT Mode will become redundant. With redundancy, something is bound to die off. Particularly something that can actually be improved and still be good.
The majority that state all cars should be available are I believe part of the Hardcore Sim crowd or those that take a fancy to those sims. PC Sims as I should say. Am I wrong?
In those Sims, games, whatever you wanna call them, The cars are available. So to that majority, you'd rather want GT to follow that sim route no?
The fear of having all the cars available (unrestricted as well) and having the traditional GT Mode is that GT Mode will become redundant. With redundancy, something is bound to die off. Particularly something that can actually be improved and still be good.
- 4,992
- Nowhere special
- SweetLilPoppet
- SweetLilPoppet
You're making a completely different point here.
- 7,625
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
Free play doesn't make GT Mode redundant, anymore than online makes offline redundant, or arcade mode makes GT Mode redundant. Those who want GT Mode can go play GT Mode. Why would PD even think about taking it away if people still play it? If you wanted credits and progression, the choice is obvious as to which to pick. Also factor in that a free mode is basically the easiest thing to develop. It would take almost no effort on PD's part to create and maintain.
- 7,625
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
When I played CoD, I only cared about online. Offline was still available in all the games I played though. What does Battlefront have to do with this? It's an online only game, that's a design decision, just like having an offline only game (Kerbal Space Program for one).
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I literally played no racing games except for GT until 2013 so I'd hardly call myself a "hardcore sim" person. I also have never, ever grinded for cars...ever. In GT1-4 I simply played the career, used the free cars I got or used my winnings to buy cars. I never repeated a race for money. In GT5 and GT6 I exploited glitches to build my garage with little effort.
I'm afraid though, that your fears about the career mode have already come true and you just don't know it. The career mode is already redundant and it gets more redundant with every new game. The racing is horrible for anyone other than a total beginner there's no other way of putting it, it's more arcade racing the AI than arcade games. It's literally nothing more than a time trial with moving pylons. It can't get any worse really.
If PD learns anything from Project Cars, and they should, it's how rabid everyone is, not for the physics or the graphics...but for the offline racing career. It's hand down the number one thing that I saw people talking about and excited for before the game was launched. I venture to guess the vast, vast majority of people bought the game for that very reason, certainly on console and even on pc I suspect. Kaz and PD would be completely lost if they didn't devote a large number of resources to the offline career, whether there is a sandbox mode or not. If anything, GT's success in spite of it's lousy career mode and offline racing is a testament to how much people want offline racing, because they've bought the last two games in the millions not because of the racing but in spite of how lousy the racing is. Fans so desperately want racing they are will to race a Honda Civic around the Nurb against a GT3 car just to get a good battle. If they hit the offline part of the game out of the park with GT7, they'll hit the game out of the park as well.
- 9,972
- Denmark
Let's assume that all cars were to become available in Arcade Mode. This would not take much purpose away from the already questionable "career mode". This way they could still have players buying cars in order to make progress, customize them, use Photo Travel, and race online.
I'm not a hardcore sim racer in any way but I simply think GT needs to offer more of a plug and play experience (not to be confused with being less simulation-oriented). There are so many great cars in GT6 that many people don't get to experience for two reasons. They don't have the time to earn serious in-game credits, or they died of boredom halfway through the National A series (great physics only gets you so far with a hopeless AI). Unfortunate when thinking about all the time that went into modeling a Sauber C9 and how many players that don't find an opportunity to drive it.
Last edited:
- 10,557
- Columbia, MD.
- Parnelli_Bones
I voted no. Matter of fact, I want to see the used car lots return. I don't understand getting rid of credits / grinding, that makes no sense to me at all.
Agh. Threads like this make me worry about the future of gaming. I mean, if we want to get rid of actually working for our prize, why not get rid of tuning as well? Because tuning is sooo outdated. So is competing. Heck, why not just have a "beat all races" button, this way we don't even have to play the game!
Sorry, I need to get out of this nightmare of a thread.
Agh. Threads like this make me worry about the future of gaming. I mean, if we want to get rid of actually working for our prize, why not get rid of tuning as well? Because tuning is sooo outdated. So is competing. Heck, why not just have a "beat all races" button, this way we don't even have to play the game!
Sorry, I need to get out of this nightmare of a thread.
Last edited:
- 7,625
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
Well, the thread isn't even about that. It's about making all cars available at the start.
It shouldn't. The take away here is that games don't have to be unimaginative and one size fits all, they can please many at the same time.
What is wanted is the option to skip jumping through hoops for no reason to get something.
Why? That's taking away from gameplay.
Well you can have that if you want, I'd rather go racing cars. I wouldn't even notice that button while I was busy racing.
- 40,891
- 10,557
- Columbia, MD.
- Parnelli_Bones
It's not really a game then, is it? That would be like playing Monopoly with the entire bankroll of money in your pocket. That would be like some people showing up to the table, ready to buy up all the properties he/she can by passing GO (and collecting $200), while for others, this doesn't even matter, because they already own all the properties. It's not fair, is what I'm saying.
I was being sarcastic to make a point. If we're going to take away one of the KEY pieces of Gran Turismo, why stop at getting rid of money? Tuning is messy. Tuning is a thing of the past. Why not have a way to make every car in the game handle like a slot car, this way we don't have to get our hands dirty!
Last edited:
I don't think anybody is asking PD to get rid of the traditional GT mode, PD should keep it in future GT games, we're simply asking them to include alternate ways for players to have access to the cars.
Making all cars available from the start in arcade mode wouldn't change anything at all for players who enjoy playing GT mode, grinding & collecting cars, but it would make the game a lot more enjoyable for people who don't care about grinding and simply want to race their favorite cars, as well as for people who have a life and don't want to spend whatever free time they have doing something they don't like to have access to cars.
I mean, if I can race cars such as Peugeot 908 LMP, Honda HSV GT500, and Nissan GT-R GT3 from the start in arcade mode why is it so bad to have access to other LMPs, GT500s & GT3s as well?
I thought PD had added that a few months back? I believe that button is called b-spec.
Honestly I don't think it makes sense to talk about progression or sense for accomplishment/reward in a game where one can win career races by using an overpowered car against an unbalanced grid of bad AI drivers with no damage or penalties, or by having b-spec bob doing the races for them.
- 4,992
- Nowhere special
- SweetLilPoppet
- SweetLilPoppet
The idea of a game is that it's not real life, so why should people be restricted in how they play?
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
If you have the option of playing the game your own way, standard career mode for instance, why would you care at all how I play? I don't understand how people can be against adding more ways to play the game without taking anything away from anyone else.
And your Monopoly analogy is way off. GT Monopoly would prevent you from using all the really cool pieces and all the cool upgrades that make the game really fun until you've "earned" them, meaning you'd have to play virtual monopoly against a computer for hours and hours before you could even think about going online to play against real players. This computer knows how to roll the dice, but somehow forgets to buy Oriental and Connecticut on it's first go around, and Vermont on the next go around. You gleefully pick up St. James, New York and Tenessee. A few rounds later when you are holding 4 different groups of properties and all the railroads, and the AI is sitting with Baltic and Water Works, you win the game. Don't worry though next time will be better. Except it isn't. Each and every time the game is the same, the AI forgets to buy properties and you win in a route.
Sounds like a fun game...said no one ever.
- 10,557
- Columbia, MD.
- Parnelli_Bones
I see. You can count me out though. My vote still stands at "no". But thanks for explaining things further. I like the idea of everybody being on the same page.
You are making the assumption that everybody uses overpowered cars though. I certainly do not. I've been balancing my races since the days of GT2.
Having an option to play the game your own way is ridiculous.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 24,642
- Anoka, MN
Well, first you obviously need to make clear what you think GT is actually trying to accomplish. If it's trying to be a car collecting game than you have a point. However, if you think it's a racing game than I'm not really sure what your problem really is with allowing people to do just that.
Also as an analogy to counter your monopoly one. During their time in F1, Toyota had one of the largest budgets on the grid, yet in the 8 years they competed they only managed 3 wins and 13 podiums.
For the record, I am mostly an offline player and spend a majority of my gaming time in career mode. However I do enjoy playing online with friends and would the experience much more enjoyable if I could just select a car from the list and go.
Thomas__633
(Banned)
- 1,203
- Australia
1. Toyota sucked because of its drivers, once Toyota left F1 none of their 2009 drivers did well, yet in Toyota they got 9th and 10th in the championship.
2. It isn't realistic (isn't that what people want in racing games these days) to jump into a race car. Even the guy who won GT Academy 2014 has to drive a racing Nissan 370Z before an LMP because otherwise bad things would happen. A sunday racer can't just go out and buy a SLS AMG, no? So that is why you start off in a Honda Jazz and work your way up to that, like in the real world.
2. It isn't realistic (isn't that what people want in racing games these days) to jump into a race car. Even the guy who won GT Academy 2014 has to drive a racing Nissan 370Z before an LMP because otherwise bad things would happen. A sunday racer can't just go out and buy a SLS AMG, no? So that is why you start off in a Honda Jazz and work your way up to that, like in the real world.
- 24,642
- Anoka, MN
Which kind of proves my point, merely having tons of money is no guarantee of success. In order for that to happen you also need to know who to hire and how to run the team. Just like in a racing game where you can have all the cars, but they are useless if you don't take the time to learn how to drive them.
In the real world you buy a *insert cheapish track day car* and do autocross or track days a few times a year as tires are rather expensive. There is no moving up the ladder unless you (or someone you know) have insane amounts of money. That's the whole point of these games, to drive the race cars we will never be able to actually drive in the real world.
I constantly see people on here talking about realism, when realism isn't even close to what they want, especially in this regard.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Am not.
I actually enjoyed playing through career mode up to GT4.
GT5 turned me off the game. Maybe forever? Not sure.
Because the few decent one-player challenges were hidden behind walls that took weeks of monotonous weenie-races to unlock/qualify/pay up for.
The one bright spot was the seasonals... challenging, thoughtful races that you could play right here, right now.
Let's put it this way... GT5 was a good online multi-player game with an incredibly loooooooooooooooooong tutorial that they just happened to call "Career" mode.
Because you automatically win if you're driving certain cars.
Whoops... in GT, thanks to the lack of reasonable race restrictions, that's actually true.
More importantly, the availability of certain cars in Arcade mode or online has never done anything to hurt the game. You still get benefits from finishing GT mode and challenges.
As I've said before: I don't buy games, anymore... so maybe my vote doesn't count. But I represent a potential market that could be drawn back in by a more realistic GT mode and game model. I don't race for tokens or trinkets. I race because I want to compete and win. For a vast majority of real-world racers who play games, that's true. There are people out there who buy Gran Turismo for the sole reason of competing in contests like GT Academy.
Those hardcore sim-warriors don't give two whits about license tests and grinding for credits. They're simply there to race.
So why not oblige them?
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I've done that 6 times already. How many times do I have drive a Honda Fit to racing glory to prove that I'm able to race a real car? Didn't I prove it 6 times already?
Similar threads
