Make all cars available from the start?

[SVPSkins]

He's comparing the challenge in each game which has nothing to do with the gen of the console and everything to do with game design.

but both are designed in 2 totally different styles. one is straight out sim base on nothing but racing cars and the other is a progression simcade, based on road cars and racing cars. i dont see how they can be put side by side and compared and of course one is going to be more challenging then the other.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Project CARS Vs GT6? right, a real fair comparison of two totally different style of car games, from two totally different era of consoles. right ok that seems a valid argument

Comparing the challenge of two games which both claim to be driving simulators is perfectly valid, regardless of if you want to give GT a free pass for being on ps3. How about I compare it with how easy it is to racing games on older consoles that are even less sim oriented? It doesn't matter what you think the game is meant to be, the point that it's not challenging is perfectly valid - because it's not challenging at all. Mario kart was harder to finish on N64.

Like I said; forcing players to grind boring as **** races over and over again is not a challenge, it's just a pathetic way to try and stretch out a game which poses no challenge to get 100% in less than a week. At the end of the day, all it ensures is in order to experience every car in GT6, you basically have to have way too much time on your hands. I'd like to be able to play games and have a life, which works fine with most games, just not with games that force ridiculous amounts of grinding on the player in order to access the content they've already paid for.

 

[Johnnypenso]

but both are designed in 2 totally different styles. one is straight out sim base on nothing but racing cars and the other is a progression simcade, based on road cars and racing cars. i dont see how they can be put side by side and compared and of course one is going to be more challenging then the other.

True, but this tangent is from Hall's comment about the GT career mode being a "challenge" by starting out in a small car and working your way up and conversely there is no challenge if you are given all the cars to begin with. But really, neither one is challenging on it's face unless the game designers build in levels of varying difficulty combined with all the elements that make racing enjoyable. GT's career mode has the potential to be a lot of fun if it's done the right way, with enough options to make it work for just about anyone who wants to play the game, not just the narrow few who have no real interest in racing and just want to grind their way to some imagined glory by having a garage full of virtual cars.

The comparison with PCars career mode only serves to indicate that some people (at least 1 million in one month) can be motivated by a career mode that is an entity in and of itself, purely racing for the thrill and challenge of racing, without having a series of carrots dangled in front of you to make go forward. What happened to racing for the joy of racing, without always having to win to earn the most money so you can have the most cars? The GT6 Trophy Stats tell us that the vast majority of gamers are not interested in building a large garage full of cars and we should be wondering why that is and what purpose it serves to lock all the cars behind a wall that it seems not a lot of people are really interested to knock down.

There are other alternatives that can be taken advantage of in the GT series, and I see no reason why you can't have multiple paths through the game, like the traditional career mode alongside a sandbox mode, so we could each pick and choose the parts of the game that appeal to us, without forcing us all down a narrow, and increasingly unattractive path.

It's also worth point out that although @hall90 has repeated ad nauseum that wanting all cars from the start is silly and people are "lazy" and "stupid" for wanting that options, I find it pretty ironic that he took advantage of the money glitch so he didn't have to waste his valuable time grinding through the game to get where he wanted to go.

 

[CBH]

True, but this tangent is from Hall's comment about the GT career mode being a "challenge" by starting out in a small car and working your way up and conversely there is no challenge if you are given all the cars to begin with. But really, neither one is challenging on it's face unless the game designers build in levels of varying difficulty combined with all the elements that make racing enjoyable. GT's career mode has the potential to be a lot of fun if it's done the right way, with enough options to make it work for just about anyone who wants to play the game, not just the narrow few who have no real interest in racing and just want to grind their way to some imagined glory by having a garage full of virtual cars.

The comparison with PCars career mode only serves to indicate that some people (at least 1 million in one month) can be motivated by a career mode that is an entity in and of itself, purely racing for the thrill and challenge of racing, without having a series of carrots dangled in front of you to make go forward. What happened to racing for the joy of racing, without always having to win to earn the most money so you can have the most cars? The GT6 Trophy Stats tell us that the vast majority of gamers are not interested in building a large garage full of cars and we should be wondering why that is and what purpose it serves to lock all the cars behind a wall that it seems not a lot of people are really interested to knock down.

There are other alternatives that can be taken advantage of in the GT series, and I see no reason why you can't have multiple paths through the game, like the traditional career mode alongside a sandbox mode, so we could each pick and choose the parts of the game that appeal to us, without forcing us all down a narrow, and increasingly unattractive path.

It's also worth point out that although @hall90 has repeated ad nauseum that wanting all cars from the start is silly and people are "lazy" and "stupid" for wanting that options, I find it pretty ironic that he took advantage of the money glitch so he didn't have to waste his valuable time grinding through the game to get where he wanted to go.

ok I had brought all the racing cars in GT6 because of the money glitch and when it got patched, I was left with not much credits left to buy the non racing cars, so I grinded away to get to buy the cars and parts that I needed and now I still grind to buy some more cars and to always have the credits I needed.

 

[Mike_grpA]

I have no desire to grind away my precious time just to have a big garage full of virtual cars. Done it plenty of times before in every other GT game. I spend my gaming time (of which I don't get a lot) these days playing games I actually find fun. I know I'm far from the only person in this situation, as I don't know anyone who would bother with another GT game if it's going to be the same game again.

 

[Thomas__633]

Dude, you are obviously better than the average driver. All that GT6 would need for you to agree would be a difficulty slider. For the average player the TT's are genuinely hard...

 

[CBH]

Having all cars at the start of a game is so wrong without earning them in the GT series and it will make the game very easy to obtain the car you want for that event. You want that car for that event well you just have to buy it with credits and if you do not have enough credits, well you just have to grind for it.

 

[05XR8]

The events are not the problem. Picking a specific car( provided there are no "best cars" to use) for an event is not the problem. Depending if it's a TT, Single Race, Championship or Enduro, the difficulty, structure and AI should make the difference. Whether grinding for a car or picking it for free. The reward of the game should be the thrill of the lap. Corner by corner.

 

[TurismoBad]

It needs some tweaks but with better AI, standing starts, qualifying and all those improvements I'm hoping will be (at-least in part) present in GT7 - the GT career is fine and I do enjoy the small start in a city car.

Would add "you can't buy this car, you must win it" but you could do so online (for example win 10 races) or offline.

It might feel like the pacing is the problem but that is mainly because the AI is too slow. Fix that and it should be ok.

They also need to work more on creating fun combos of tracks/cars for the career. There were several seasonals that did a great job at this and even with crappy AI these races were enjoyable.

On the other hand if I want to time trial, don't care about the career or race online - just give me everything from the start.

Probably won't happen to rack in those sweet microtransactions m'right ?

Yeah and with the excuse of "preserving the Gran Turismo feeling" it should be ok with die-hard fans that never tried anything else in their lives and feel like grinding is the price to have fun.

Sacrifice a goat while you're at it too

If you want to "earn it" then ALL cars should be locked behind VERY HARD races or milestones. THEN you would "earn it".

Any dumbass can grind for hours 🤬 AI - you earned nothing and you don't deserve the car - with your logic of "earning and deserving"

Sell it and inflict pain upon yourself

It's like someone insisting on using the VHS tapes in 2015.

 

[Mike_grpA]

The events are not the problem. Picking a specific car( provided there are no "best cars" to use) for an event is not the problem. Depending if it's a TT, Single Race, Championship or Enduro, the difficulty, structure and AI should make the difference. Whether grinding for a car or picking it for free. The reward of the game should be the thrill of the lap. Corner by corner.

Exactly. The formula they use is so old and worn out and boring now. I am a racer. I like competition. I don't like driving around doing 3 lap chase the rabbit challenges in order to save up pretend money. It's such a bore, and feels like such a **** job, I may as well get a night job shovelling **** for minimum wage, and spend my earnings on Gt's micro transactions lol. I would get all the cars practically the same way; by doing something I don't enjoy.

It needs some tweaks but with better AI, standing starts, qualifying and all those improvements I'm hoping will be (at-least in part) present in GT7 - the GT career is fine and I do enjoy the small start in a city car.

Would add "you can't buy this car, you must win it" but you could do so online (for example win 10 races) or offline.

It might feel like the pacing is the problem but that is mainly because the AI is too slow. Fix that and it should be ok.

They also need to work more on creating fun combos of tracks/cars for the career. There were several seasonals that did a great job at this and even with crappy AI these races were enjoyable.

On the other hand if I want to time trial, don't care about the career or race online - just give me everything from the start.

Probably won't happen to rack in those sweet microtransactions m'right ?

Yeah and with the excuse of "preserving the Gran Turismo feeling" it should be ok with die-hard fans that never tried anything else in their lives and feel like grinding is the price to have fun.

Sacrifice a goat while you're at it too

If you want to "earn it" then ALL cars should be locked behind VERY HARD races or milestones. THEN you would "earn it".

Any dumbass can grind for hours 🤬 AI - you earned nothing and you don't deserve the car - with your logic of "earning and deserving"

Sell it and inflict pain upon yourself

It's like someone insisting on using the VHS tapes in 2015.

Thanks, finally I feel like some people are actually reading what I type lol. GT can be great, and not sacrifice it's soul. It really doesn't need to be all about grinding. That's a terribly outdated idea in gaming. With the massive amount of competition it now has, and will have in the future, it just can't afford to be stuck in the past.

I was a hardcore GT fan from way back. I know that unless some big changes happen, the series will continue to see less sales. Even the hardcore fans will eventually move on to better things.

 

[Tornado]

Having all cars at the start of a game is so wrong without earning them in the GT series and it will make the game very easy to obtain the car you want for that event. You want that car for that event well you just have to buy it with credits and if you do not have enough credits, well you just have to grind for it.

Which are completely meaningless words coming from someone who refused to do it himself.

 

[Thomas__633]

From someone who didn't exploit the glitch and has 502 cars, including two 20 million credit cars, I didn't mind the grinding.

 

[kremator693]

Open up the categories of cars with progression depending on users licence completion, national for city cars international for supersports and racing cars and special licence for LMPs.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Having all cars at the start of a game is so wrong without earning them in the GT series and it will make the game very easy to obtain the car you want for that event. You want that car for that event well you just have to buy it with credits and if you do not have enough credits, well you just have to grind for it.

I have not got a lot of time to play GT6 that's why I [@hall90] did the money glitch to make it a bit easy.

 

[SVPSkins]

Having all cars at the start of a game is so wrong without earning them in the GT series and it will make the game very easy to obtain the car you want for that event. You want that car for that event well you just have to buy it with credits and if you do not have enough credits, well you just have to grind for it.

Some people moan about gamers jumping straight into a fast car they can't control, making all cars available from the start will just make that 10x worse. That's why i object to unlocking all cars and the thought of a sandbox feature sounds crazy and will go against the whole point of the GT series. The people that want all cars unlocked from the start. then im sorry, GT isn't for you and you need to find a racer that is.

Open up the categories of cars with progression depending on users licence completion, national for city cars international for supersports and racing cars and special licence for LMPs.

100% agree on that.

 

[ALeftRighter]

I perfer the grinding, from rock bottom in a Fit RS to a Lamborghini 'Muria

 

[SVPSkins]

Open up the categories of cars with progression depending on users licence completion, national for city cars international for supersports and racing cars and special licence for LMPs.

True, but this tangent is from Hall's comment about the GT career mode being a "challenge" by starting out in a small car and working your way up and conversely there is no challenge if you are given all the cars to begin with. But really, neither one is challenging on it's face unless the game designers build in levels of varying difficulty combined with all the elements that make racing enjoyable. GT's career mode has the potential to be a lot of fun if it's done the right way, with enough options to make it work for just about anyone who wants to play the game, not just the narrow few who have no real interest in racing and just want to grind their way to some imagined glory by having a garage full of virtual cars.

The comparison with PCars career mode only serves to indicate that some people (at least 1 million in one month) can be motivated by a career mode that is an entity in and of itself, purely racing for the thrill and challenge of racing, without having a series of carrots dangled in front of you to make go forward. What happened to racing for the joy of racing, without always having to win to earn the most money so you can have the most cars? The GT6 Trophy Stats tell us that the vast majority of gamers are not interested in building a large garage full of cars and we should be wondering why that is and what purpose it serves to lock all the cars behind a wall that it seems not a lot of people are really interested to knock down.

There are other alternatives that can be taken advantage of in the GT series, and I see no reason why you can't have multiple paths through the game, like the traditional career mode alongside a sandbox mode, so we could each pick and choose the parts of the game that appeal to us, without forcing us all down a narrow, and increasingly unattractive path.

It's also worth point out that although @hall90 has repeated ad nauseum that wanting all cars from the start is silly and people are "lazy" and "stupid" for wanting that options, I find it pretty ironic that he took advantage of the money glitch so he didn't have to waste his valuable time grinding through the game to get where he wanted to go.

I agree him using Money Glitch was wrong and Gt6 is challenging but depends on there skills but for the most part GT6 AI is flattering

 

[Tired Tyres]

I perfer the grinding, from rock bottom in a Fit RS to a Lamborghini 'Muria

That's modus operandi for Gran Turismo. To change from that they'd have to change the name of the game. I just want a LOT of races to do it in against AI that isn't a push over and makes me earn the win.

 

[MustangManiac]

That's modus operandi for Gran Turismo. To change from that they'd have to change the name of the game. I just want a LOT of races to do it in against AI that isn't a push over and makes me earn the win.

Exactly, if there were lots of competitive racing in the career mode then it wouldn't be a grind and I doubt most of us would complain about having to race so much to buy cars.

 

[FS7]

Some people moan about gamers jumping straight into a fast car they can't control, making all cars available from the start will just make that 10x worse.

Not necessarily.
In FM4 I drove a bunch of fast race cars in free play mode before starting career. The same goes for PCars, I started with the Formula A in solo mode, then drove the other formula cars, then some LMPs, then GTs, I could drive them all just fine. Having all cars available from the start in solo mode made the game more enjoyable.

The way I see it one of the reasons we see so many bad players online in GT6 is because of its offline career format.
The catch-up race format encourages reckless driving, player starts in last place far behind the leader, tries to pass AI cars at any cost with no damage and no penalties for hitting other cars or going offtrack, in an attempt to win every race so that they get the stars to unlock the next career section and credits to acquire cars. There's also the issue of the AI being poor, and race events also being setup poorly, there's usually 1-2 AI drivers using cars that are significantly faster than the other AI cars, but even those 1-2 opponents are using cars well below the performance limit of the event. Most people won't bother doing something like this and will simply use overpowered cars for an easy win. None of that stuff is realistic or challenging.
When one takes the "skills" learned in GT6's career and uses them online against other human players the result is very poor racing, people try to do the same thing they do in career mode, reckless driving, collisions, corner cutting, bad driving, and if they aren't winning they quit because the game trained them to "win" every race and they don't understand how real life races & championships work.

Having all cars unlocked from the start in arcade mode won't have much effect on how people drive, if PD wants players to race clean they need to do so by implementing ways to encourage clean driving in career (example) as well as ways to encourage clean driving online (example).

 

[Johnnypenso]

Not necessarily.
In FM4 I drove a bunch of fast race cars in free play mode before starting career. The same goes for PCars, I started with the Formula A in solo mode, then drove the other formula cars, then some LMPs, then GTs, I could drive them all just fine. Having all cars available from the start in solo mode made the game more enjoyable.

The way I see it one of the reasons we see so many bad players online in GT6 is because of its offline career format.
The catch-up race format encourages reckless driving, player starts in last place far behind the leader, tries to pass AI cars at any cost with no damage and no penalties for hitting other cars or going offtrack, in an attempt to win every race so that they get the stars to unlock the next career section and credits to acquire cars. There's also the issue of the AI being poor, and race events also being setup poorly, there's usually 1-2 AI drivers using cars that are significantly faster than the other AI cars, but even those 1-2 opponents are using cars well below the performance limit of the event. Most people won't bother doing something like this and will simply use overpowered cars for an easy win. None of that stuff is realistic or challenging.
When one takes the "skills" learned in GT6's career and uses them online against other human players the result is very poor racing, people try to do the same thing they do in career mode, reckless driving, collisions, corner cutting, bad driving, and if they aren't winning they quit because the game trained them to "win" every race and they don't understand how real life races & championships work.

Having all cars unlocked from the start in arcade mode won't have much effect on how people drive, if PD wants players to race clean they need to do so by implementing ways to encourage clean driving in career (example) as well as ways to encourage clean driving online (example).

Exactly. If having early access to fast cars was a concern, then the entire career mode of "smash your way to the front without penalty" needs to be revamped. To encourage this would be very simple, develop a reward system for clean driving in the career. Didn't hit anyone all race? - +20%. Two races in a row? - +30%. 5+ in a row? - +50%. Pay people to drive clean and those that care about it will, those that don't there is little hope for anyway.

 

[CBH]

GT series will always stay the same and you do not have to spend hundreds of hours to grind to get what you want, you only need to buy what you want in the game and that dose not take long at all.

 

[Johnnypenso]

GT series will always stay the same and you do not have to spend hundreds of hours to grind to get what you want, you only need to buy what you want in the game and that dose not take long at all.

But if you don't have time to waste, those money glitches solve the problem of having to grind for cars amazingly well. Right buddy?

I have not got a lot of time to play GT6 that's why I did the money glitch to make it a bit easy.

 

[Mike_grpA]

GT series will always stay the same and you do not have to spend hundreds of hours to grind to get what you want, you only need to buy what you want in the game and that dose not take long at all.

If what you want is to try out all of the cars you do...

 

[SVPSkins]

But if you don't have time to waste, those money glitches solve the problem of having to grind for cars amazingly well. Right buddy?

If you do not have time to waste, then you have no time to play console games full stop. Now stop your moaning and move on, because this thread is getting pretty tedious now.

 

[1241Penguin]

If you do not have time to waste, then you have no time to play console games full stop. Now stop your moaning and move on, because this thread is getting pretty tedious now.

I think @Johnnypenso is equating "wasting time" to "grinding."

Which makes sense, hence why I used to credit glitch at the beginning of the game because I didn't want to waste the little time I had outside studying doing something monotonous and unfun in every aspect imaginable. Frankly, grinding wouldn't be a problem if the races were fun and challenging, but they aren't.

 

[SVPSkins]

People say that they dont like grinding, its a waste of time. erm sorry so what's Online racing then? you race for credits just as you do offline, only offline is easier and pays out more. So what's the problem?

You know what i do if i dont have the credit? i sell cars i dont use much. like tonight, i made 2million credits. done, now i can buy another car i want or i use that 2 million credits towards saving up for another car that cost a bit more and then race for the rest, it cuts down the time it would take me to save for the credits. you know how long its going to take me to save fort he im after at the moment? i dont care, why? because im patient.

 

[Com Fox]

Each idea favours a totally different style of progression in racing games.

Having everything at the start is good for games that are heavily focused on primary racing itself and not so much on the Cars (like GRID: Autosport).

Having to "unlock" each cars, is good in the sense of ownership and you get more time to know the cars better making cars be primarily focused which allows you develop strong bonds with what you got. Which is in the GT area and has been.

Having every car in GT available at the start totally changes how the series has worked, it would feel rather different. Not to mention one of the prime things in GT is having a collection of your favourite cars.

Having it all at the start in GT is like having every Pokemon at the start of a Pokemon game. It will lose its charm.

 

[CBH]

But if you don't have time to waste, those money glitches solve the problem of having to grind for cars amazingly well. Right buddy?

But if there were no money glitch I would still be happy to grind to buy what I want in the game, ok I have not got a lot of time to play GT6 but I still got to grind to buy the content in the game, and there is still a lot of cars that I have not got yet and I would like to buy and it may take along time to get them.

 

[1241Penguin]

People say that they dont like grinding, its a waste of time. erm sorry so what's Online racing then? you race for credits just as you do offline, only offline is easier and pays out more. So what's the problem?

I haven't raced online in GT6 but in GT5, online racing differed in that opponents potentially provide me with a closer to life racing experience. I ran two racing series back in GT5 and had immense fun in both. Can't do that in GT5 or GT6. Apart from the fact that some online players have skills comparable to that of the AI, I don't really see how you can compare online and offline racing.

You know what i do if i dont have the credit? i sell cars i dont use much. like tonight, i made 2million credits. done, now i can buy another car i want or i use that 2 million credits towards saving up for another car that cost a bit more and then race for the rest, it cuts down the time it would take me to save for the credits. you know how long its going to take me to save fort he im after at the moment? i dont care, why? because im patient.

So I'm basically limited to the option of either A) grinding or B) owning just one or two cars, when in fact I want to be C) enjoying driving?

But if there were no money glitch I would still be happy to grind to buy what I want in the game, ok I have not got a lot of time to play GT6 but I still got to grind to buy the content in the game, and there is still a lot of cars that I have not got yet and I would like to buy and it may take along time to get them.

Fact is that you still exploited the glitch, thus you are fully aware (and presumably understanding) of the rationale for people to do so. Yet for some reason you insist on remaining ignorant to the people whose position you were in.