Make all cars available from the start?

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Make all cars available from the start?

  • Yes

  • No


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24 pages and I don't think anyone has asked for the removal of in-game progression, just an option to progress a different way if desired.

I'm more than happy to skip the career altogether.....

I am not lazy. I work hard. I run my own business. Sometimes I work long very long hours in stressful and physically demanding situations. Many of us do. Videogaming is not work to me nor do I consider it "lazy" if I don't complete a task in a game or finish a level. I consider it lazy if I don't get out of bed in the morning to earn money, to buy hardware and software for gaming. I game for fun and only play games that are fun to me. Grinding is not fun, offline racing is a little fun but only when I can do it when I want and how I want. Project Cars has great AI and a great career and I've raced maybe 10 races in a month. I've got over 100 hours into the game and I've driven maybe 15 cars, 5 or 6 seriously and explored maybe 6 or 7 track layouts out of 100 in any depth. In a game with 70 cars (+DLC) and 100 layouts, there is so much to do without having to slog through a career mode that I probably won't drive half the cars and half the tracks in 2 or 3 years.

Point is, there are plenty of people like me, who just want the freedom to enjoy the content at their leisure. Even in this GTcentric website, fully 1/3 of respondents to this poll would like a different approach to the game made available to them. I don't see how anyone else's game is affected by me playing the way I want to play.

Yup there are indeed . But still the minority which falls into the casual gamer bracket . I completed GT6 career mode whilst in between working and all the other stuff . Kaz implimented the buy credits option , so its always another quick option if you and your friends wanted to buy cars instead of playing . An example of tailoring to the casual market also . I stand by my opinion of it's laziness to not progress in a way the game intends people to . You could just jump in the best troll cars in the game and complete it in a day . Wheres the progression in that ?

No disrespect intended but it's not PDs fault you work long hours and run your own business . That was your choice .

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No problem. FYI, it's "patronizing", though.

Woops, thanks for the correction

No one needs to have 1200 cars. What 1200 cars does (or is supposed to do) is make it more likely that the car of your dreams is available. But I'm sure you actually knew this before typing your post.

yes i did know before typing my comment. Some people try (have two friends) and collect all the cars and i just dont see the point.
 
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Yup there are indeed . But still the minority which falls into the casual gamer bracket .
To ignore a third of the gamer base on the basis that they are the minority would be an asinine move.
I completed GT6 career mode whilst in between working and all the other stuff . Kaz implimented the buy credits option , so its always another quick option if you and your friends wanted to buy cars instead of playing . An example of tailoring to the casual market also .
Ah, right. Make career mode mind numbingly boring and tedious so that players will have to resort to micro-transactions to find any fun in the game. Pretty clever marketing actually. 👍
I stand by my opinion of it's laziness to not progress in a way the game intends people to .
I'm not entirely sure how you can judge people's worth ethic based on what they want to do in a goddamn video game.
You could just jump in the best troll cars in the game and complete it in a day . Wheres the progression in that ?
Oh, implying that you're satisfied with your "progression" in a career mode that gives zero reward for good driving?
 
Yup there are indeed . But still the minority which falls into the casual gamer bracket . I completed GT6 career mode whilst in between working and all the other stuff . Kaz implimented the buy credits option , so its always another quick option if you and your friends wanted to buy cars instead of playing . An example of tailoring to the casual market also . I stand by my opinion of it's laziness to not progress in a way the game intends people to . You could just jump in the best troll cars in the game and complete it in a day . Wheres the progression in that ?

No disrespect intended but it's not PDs fault you work long hours and run your own business . That was your choice .
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So how is your gameplay affected if I have the option to use all cars from the beginning and you choose the GT Classic Career Mode and go through the game that way?
 
To ignore a third of the gamer base on the basis that they are the minority would be an asinine move.

Ah, right. Make career mode mind numbingly boring and tedious so that players will have to resort to micro-transactions to find any fun in the game. Pretty clever marketing actually. 👍

I'm not entirely sure how you can judge people's worth ethic based on what they want to do in a goddamn video game.

Oh, implying that you're satisfied with your "progression" in a career mode that gives zero reward for good driving?

Do you have 100% completion ? I do . And I didn't have to spend any real life money to by cars and found it enjoyable to progress through as I did so .

We're talking about gaming , specifically progression versus having it the easy way and everything unlocked .
Let me make a comparison here if you wanted a real life situation instead -

If you dated the girl of your dreams and took time to get to know her and get married , would that combination be more worthwhile and fullfilling than just meeting a girl for say ... a one night fling . To find out next day that she was pregnant then you just married her because , well , free dinners ? ..........

Getting everything at the first instance gives no satisfaction . PCars comebacks will follow that i'm sure , but GT isn't PCars which people forget , thinking they have seen the future ....

You'd be more satisfied with what exactly ? We all know that GT career mode can be vastly improved . I've already said that

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Just put a few special liveries, rim selections or other customisation options unlockable in career mode, stuff that doesn't impede on anyone else's ability to race freely. If they also make a career mode that is interesting and challenging, that's enough for me to want to complete it, even if all cars are available in a free play/online mode. Naturally, there should still be a good selection of liveries and customisation even without going through the career.
 
If a game developer releases a game like GT7 it should be up to the developer on how you play the game and not the way you or anybody else on how you play the game. 👍

Yet Minecraft, one of the best selling games of the last decade, was pretty much made for people to play exactly the way they wanted. Than you look at some of the other best selling games during that period and you will notice something, there are quite a few sandbox games that have quite a bit of wiggle room for players to make it their own individual experience. Even the non-sandbox games that have sold extremely well give you plenty of room to make it your own experience. People want a game that feels like it was made solely for them, not everybody else.

This has always been one of my biggest complaints about PD, they are so damned restrictive about how people play the game. I don't see how it would ruin the game by letting me put dirt tires on any car I want no matter how un-suited it is for rally racing. It's about having fun and not doing what is expected. It's why I was rather excited to see the '91 NSX is one of the few MR sports cars I've found that allow dirt tires, it's the last car you'd expect and it's not a very good rally car, but it sure is fun to drive around Eiger Nordwand with it.
 
So how is your gameplay affected if I have the option to use all cars from the beginning and you choose the GT Classic Career Mode and go through the game that way?

It doesn't at all . Quite obviously .

However i'm curious about something , why do you think 2/3 rds of people don't want that ?
 
Do you have 100% completion ? I do . And I didn't have to spend any real life money to by cars and found it enjoyable to progress through as I did so .
Frankly no. I believe I'm hovering at around 30%, and I have zero intention of completing the game, for the reasons I stated earlier:
Ah, right. Make career mode mind numbingly boring and tedious so that players will have to resort to micro-transactions to find any fun in the game.

...

Oh, implying that you're satisfied with your "progression" in a career mode that gives zero reward for good driving?


We're talking about gaming , specifically progression versus having it the easy way and everything unlocked .
Let me make a comparison here if you wanted a real life situation instead -

If you dated the girl of your dreams and took time to get to know her and get married , would that combination be more worthwhile and fullfilling than just meeting a girl for say ... a one night fling . To find out next day that she was pregnant then you just married her because , well , free dinners ? ..........

Getting everything at the first instance gives no satisfaction . PCars comebacks will follow that i'm sure , but GT isn't PCars which people forget , thinking they have seen the future ....

You'd be more satisfied with what exactly ? We all know that GT career mode can be vastly improved . I've already said that

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I still find it ridiculous that you're comparing real life to a video game, but hey, I'll play along.

I never said that having to work for your cars is unrewarding. I did however say that the way GT6 forces you to have to grind (thereby participating in some of the most unfulfilling and boring catch the rabbit races) is mind-numbingly awful and a huge turnoff as a gamer who wants to enjoy their time. The effort required to persist in these pathetically designed races heavily overshadows any sort of fulfilment I might feel for buying a car that I worked so hard for. If the races in GT were fun, as they ought to be, then I have zero problem with the old system of having to work for your cars.

As it so happens though, my idea of "fulfillment" as opposed to yours involves me driving around tracks going as fast as I can in whatever cars I desire, and if the race design stays the way it is, then I would like all cars to be available.
 
It doesn't at all . Quite obviously .

However i'm curious about something , why do you think 2/3 rds of people don't want that ?
So if it doesn't affect your gameplay then why would you object to adding it to the game?

I can only assume that those people that voted for that option want the standard progression through the game that they are used to.
 
Frankly no. I believe I'm hovering at around 30%, and I have zero intention of completing the game, for the reasons I stated earlier:
I still find it ridiculous that you're comparing real life to a video game, but hey, I'll play along.

I never said that having to work for your cars is unrewarding. I did however say that the way GT6 forces you to have to grind (thereby participating in some of the most unfulfilling and boring catch the rabbit races) is mind-numbingly awful and a huge turnoff as a gamer who wants to enjoy their time. The effort required to persist in these pathetically designed races heavily overshadows any sort of fulfilment I might feel for buying a car that I worked so hard for. If the races in GT were fun, as they ought to be, then I have zero problem with the old system of having to work for your cars.

As it so happens though, my idea of "fulfillment" as opposed to yours involves me driving around tracks going as fast as I can in whatever cars I desire, and if the race design stays the way it is, then I would like all cars to be available.

I gave you an IRL example as you claimed I couldn't compare gaming progression to real life . So I did .

You do realise that you can go well below the PP and tyre limit to make it more fun right ?

30% is barely touching the game . Falls under laziness if you have no intention to complete it but want all content available for you in my opinion

👍
 
Do you have 100% completion ? I do . And I didn't have to spend any real life money to by cars and found it enjoyable to progress through as I did so .

We're talking about gaming , specifically progression versus having it the easy way and everything unlocked .
Let me make a comparison here if you wanted a real life situation instead -

I have 100% completion in GT6. Took me about a week playing casually, and I owned about ten cars when I finished the game. Completing the main game therefore has **** all to do with grinding the boring races over and over to get the cars you actually want to drive. If GT6 had everything available for online and arcade, I probably would still have done that week of career to get 100% for ****s and giggles, but I sure as hell wouldn't have wasted any more time on it. I would have just moved right on to online and arcade and stayed there. The grinding didn't make me any better at the game. Playing against real people online did. The grinding didn't make me enjoy the game at all. Playing online did. The grinding didn't give me any sense of achievement. Winning races against real people online did.

I'm obviously not alone in thinking I'm not wasting time grinding again. Been there and done it. Not interested in doing it again. There are now plenty of alternatives on PS4, so if PD don't make the game more open they'll likely lose anywhere up to a third of their sales from the last game, which was already down quite a bit on the older games.
 
make it like a real life. you work for it. it feel more rewarding. like oh come on i really want this car so bad and i work to get it eventually. i mean if you get anything you want instantly without any effort whats the point of life?

Make it like real life: You buy the game, but can only look at the cars, or ride passenger, for 16 years.

I'm not concerned with what the point of life might be while I'm playing a driving game. I'm playing the game as a reasonably cheap escape from reality, or at least, in GT's case, aspects of it: I get to drive fairly accurate facsimiles of cars I'd never get a chance to in real life.

When GT7 comes out you do not need difficulty sliders in the game, you just have to better your skill level when you play the game and that comes in with practise that make you a better player at it.

I regularly place in the top couple percent of seasonals/rivals in GT/Forza. My first clean lap in the final round of GTAcademy 2014 put me in the top 100 in Canada. I'm not terribly concerned with my skill level, I'm concerned with the crap AI GT forces me to contend with for grinding. That's why I just didn't bother and made full use of the money glitch when I still played the game.

It's interesting you want to mention practice, though. I could easily argue that having more cars available from the start will help inexperienced players practice much more thoroughly than being strapped to a 120bhp Honda for hours. They could learn about the different drivetrains and how to handle them more thoroughly from an earlier point, or understand downforce better.

I voted no as it wouldn't be Gran Turismo without purchasing the cars .

It wouldn't be Gran Turismo with more than six cars on a track.

Tradition is a terrible reason to avoid progress.

I feel the mandatory completion of some of the career at the start was good for the series , in that at least when you go online you're less likely to be rammed off constantly by a 10 year old playing bumper cars in an X1 .

You'd just be rammed off by another car instead, really. Though I agree that, in previous titles, the career was a bigger help than a hindrance. When payouts got smaller, and car costs ballooned, that's when PD started pushing grinding.

Career mode in 6 was easy to complete , aside from some of the coffee break challenges and a mission race in IA , so I agree it is not challenging to an experienced player . But in having all cars available at the start , just ask yourself one thing -

How many players would still be playing today ?

My opinion , not many .

I got an XB1 about a month ago. I had FM5 and FH2 ready to go. Now, as an experienced Forza player, I've taken advantage of their Forza Rewards program, so I had been redeeming my points each month, getting (relative) peanuts in FM4 and FH1 on my 360, but stockpiling a ton of credits for the XB1 games. I loaded them up, and in addition to getting the DLC cars without having to spend credits in-game, I had millions of credits in both games when I started them.

I play whenever I get the chance. I can't wait to load up either game because I get to access the garage I want, with cars that are mine. I enter racing series excited at the prospect of picking out a car from my garage I haven't yet driven (or not driven enough), so not a single race has felt like grinding yet. Am I spoiled for choice? Yep. And I'm enjoying it.

People nowadays in gaming want it all available and too easy with no challenge . What's the point in that ?
That's not the spirit of gaming , it's meant to challenge you , not give you everything at your fingertips so you get bored and wander off to do / buy something else .

The point of it is to be entertained. Some folks are fine with games being work. Some aren't. It shouldn't be a surprise that it's a fairly big sliding scale.
I'm not going to pretend I know what the "spirit of gaming" is really about, though.

The solution is for PD to make career mode challenging in 7 . Keep the credit system , increase the rewards , ditch the login bonus and earn your cars .

There's the kicker: make career mode challenging. I'd like to add that it should also at least attempt to be fun, too. I'd have a lot less of an issue with it that way.

Personally, having all cars available from the start makes the most sense for Arcade Mode, and leaving the traditional Career/GT Mode with a (fixed) progression system, but oh well.

It's much more satisfying to be challenged rather than being lazy and wanting it all from the start .

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It is satisfying to be challenged, I agree. Grinding isn't challenging, unless you count trying to stay awake.
 
You do realise that you can go well below the PP and tyre limit to make it more fun right ?
You do realize that no matter how much I nerf my car's performance that racing against the AI doesn't get anymore fun right?

You do realize that there's no game outside the GT series where I have to purposefully nerf my own performance for a decent challenge right?
30% is barely touching the game . Falls under laziness if you have no intention to complete it but want all content available for you in my opinion
I'm fairly certain that you don't need 100% completion to get the cars that you want to buy anyway, so this is a pointless argument.

And me, spending my time trying to improve lap times, trying to find out which cars are fastest, trying to tune a car to its fullest potential, is laziness?

Besides, and once again, how exactly are you able to judge one's work ethic based on what they do in a goddamn video game?
 
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24 pages and I don't think anyone has asked for the removal of in-game progression, just an option to progress a different way if desired.
Basic law of human nature:

If a person is given an ultimate way of completing a task, they will pretty much always go that direction.

Like if you use cheats in a game, it gives you a great rush of excitement, but it doesn't last nearly as long as if you had just completed the game. An option for this might as well be permanent.

Not being passive aggressive by the way :)
 
I gave you an IRL example as you claimed I couldn't compare gaming progression to real life . So I did .

So women are objects?

Relationships are a complicated beasts, sometimes the first scenario ends in divorce a year after the wedding and sometimes the second one turns into a lifetime of wedded bliss.

If anything, your analogy proved the point you are arguing against. People are different and therefor want different things whether its relationships or video games.

You do realise that you can go well below the PP and tyre limit to make it more fun right ?

The problem is that's the only way to make the game fun. Handicapping myself is only something I should do when I'm bored (like going through a shooter with only melee weapons), it should not be the sole way of changing the difficulty.

30% is barely touching the game . Falls under laziness if you have no intention to complete it but want all content available for you in my opinion

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Or he just wants to race online.💡 Hell, I sunk over 150 hours into New Vegas before I even reached New Vegas.

Also, can we please drop the whole lazy argument? We're arguing about a video game online, it doesn't get any more lazy than that.:lol:
 
So if it doesn't affect your gameplay then why would you object to adding it to the game?

I can only assume that those people that voted for that option want the standard progression through the game that they are used to.

Because GTs longevity for anything more than a casual player would be damaged in my opinion . Because even if you had grinding a career as an option or getting it all upfront , which option do you think everyone who owns the game will choose ?
It should be the same for everyone , no matter if it's one or the other in the end product .

GT purists perhaps ? Or people that actually want progression in their gameplay other than getting all the toys from the box at once .
 
I gave you an IRL example as you claimed I couldn't compare gaming progression to real life . So I did .

You do realise that you can go well below the PP and tyre limit to make it more fun right ?

30% is barely touching the game . Falls under laziness if you have no intention to complete it but want all content available for you in my opinion

👍
Does the percentage even matter. I would say it's pretty irrelevant to say it's barely touching the surface, considering the only thing 100% means is that you just completed more races then the other person. It's not any kind of special trick that's automatically going to add some secret part of the game that you can only achieve from beating it 100%.

I actually wouldn't mind just having everything unlocked and using whatever I want. It's not like there's much if a progression anyways, more so just a bunch of races just thrown there with no real goal. I've always found career modes in sim racing games boring, really. When a game can give me a good enough challenge within itself, then that's when I wouldn't mind grinding in it, because at that point it would then be more about racing to actually have fun, at my full potential as well as the game, regardless of the prize.
 
Because GTs longevity for anything more than a casual player would be damaged in my opinion .

Let's take a look at the areas of GTPlanet's GT6 forum and the effect having all the cars would have.

Racing series - I can't see how having all the cars available would hurt this section.

Tuning - I can't see how having all the cars available would hurt this section.

Drifting - I can't see how having all the cars available would hurt this section.

Drag - I can't see how having all the cars available would hurt this section.

Photomode - I can't see how having all the cars available would hurt this section.

WRS - I can't see how having all the cars available would hurt this section.


If anything, all those communities would probably benefit.

Also, there is a hint of irony that the car in your avatar was given away to any player that could manage to complete a whole lap.:lol:
 
Basic law of human nature:

If a person is given an ultimate way of completing a task, they will pretty much always go that direction.

Like if you use cheats in a game, it gives you a great rush of excitement, but it doesn't last nearly as long as if you had just completed the game. An option for this might as well be permanent.

Not being passive aggressive by the way :)

Because GTs longevity for anything more than a casual player would be damaged in my opinion . Because even if you had grinding a career as an option or getting it all upfront , which option do you think everyone who owns the game will choose ?
It should be the same for everyone , no matter if it's one or the other in the end product .

GT purists perhaps ? Or people that actually want progression in their gameplay other than getting all the toys from the box at once .
So for both of you your basic premise is that people aren't smart enough to choose what they like, and many will ultimately make the wrong choice and be dissatisfied, so let's force everyone down this single path because they will be happier grinding through the career they don't want vs. the driving, tuning and racing that they really want.
 
You do realise that you can go well below the PP and tyre limit to make it more fun right ?

30% is barely touching the game . Falls under laziness if you have no intention to complete it but want all content available for you in my opinion

👍

It's hardly fun to have to resort to using an unrealistically underpowered car just to have some kind of challenge. I did a race in the career for supercars (forget which one now, it was at ascari) which was against lambos and ferraris and the like, which I think from memory was ten laps. It was a typical chase the rabbit race, so rolling start half a lap behind in last, and I took the lead on lap 3 in.... wait for it... a Daihatsu Sirion.... Wow, so much fun, it felt so realistic and immersive... Oooorrr it was just a complete joke.

Also, as I said, I have 100%, but don't want to waste my precious time grinding, because I hate it, and it's not fun, or hard, or rewarding. So since I do have 100%, would you say it's fair I should have access to all of the cars? After all, I've finished PD's entire "progression" through their career.
 
So for both of you your basic premise is that people aren't smart enough to choose what they like, and many will ultimately make the wrong choice and be dissatisfied, so let's force everyone down this single path because they will be happier grinding through the career they don't want vs. the driving, tuning and racing that they really want.
Yeah, pretty much. Going back to my first point, GT is a game, not a simulator. Game is defined by having and ultimate goal. pCARS does not have an ultimate goal (from what i have read). pCARS is not a game.
 
Incidentally, that's why in GT5 I completed 0 out of 0 single player A-Spec events, but my A-Spec level was still high 30s; because I could instead just hand an X1 off to a Bob and have him grind credits for me while I did something else. That's why I pretty much abandoned GT6's single player immediately and screwed around in Arcade for a couple months instead (before eventually selling the game outright and going back to GT5 until they shut the servers down), since they were stupid enough to put an arbitrary limit on how many moronic bots you had to face in the even-worse-than-GT5 GT Life races before you could even go online.

Since when was GT5's B-spec Bob able to compete in A-spec? I must have missed that update...
 
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