NASCAR (Stock cars, Craftsman trucks, etc.) in GT5?

[Spec M]

Would you rather have them put a zillion Skylines in instead?

No I wouldn't rather see them put a "zillion" Skylines in instead. What a rediculous question. I've already stated what I would rather see.

Like more ETCC cars, DTM, Group C, Le Mans, F1, SCCA GT2, GT3 perhaps etc.

PS: Motominded, I found the Hyde Charger Le Mans link very interesting. Thanks 👍

 

[Joey D]

Then why not a stock car? It's not misappropriating resources. As I've said PD should work to represent all forms of automotive base motorsports that they can. I personally can't stand F1 but does that mean I think they should leave out the F1 car? Absolutely not.

 

[Motominded]

Then why not a stock car? It's not misappropriating resources.

my post answers that.

 

[Joey D]

my post answers that.

Where? I've read through your post and can't find the "stock cars should be in the game because" anywhere. Huge textwalls aren't my thing.

 

[Motominded]

The issue is this. One of the elements with GT is that different types of cars from different series could go against each other. GT1 vs GT500 and LMP vs Group C.

Nascar is well.......all the same. It really is a type of racing that cant go against anything else. Yes, i suppose 1 stock car forced to race GT3 and other sub 400hp road racers could work. But a field of 16+ identical cars with different stickers wont work.

Consider it like this. In the future if PD were to make an F1 game, they would probably have modern F1 cars (F2007) going against old ones (312, 126, 642) and the like. That's kinda what you get, a mix of different things new and old.
But these cars have different features throughout the years. Many more than a stock car. Especially one form post 1994.

I disagree, there are far more people pushing for Spa, Dijon, and Macau than American ovals. I feel that since Daytona and Motegi are in, you really don't need more. You have a 1.5 and 2.5 mile setup and a test coarse. There is nothing gained by adding more. Road coarses are all different and unique to themselves.

Well here is the short version just for you.

 

[Perfect Balance]

(By the way...I've seen ATCC Holden Commodores corner with one front wheel in the air, and lots and lots of hatches with one rear wheel. You can't tell me those cars didn't handle well)

The rear tire thing isn't really much of a problem. Even if it was touching the ground, it would be doing very little work, and most likely locked up anyway.


I think stock cars shouldn't be in the game because there isn't enough variety in what they "do"

Same goes with drag racing.


I'm fine with a car or two, (that should be enough to get the point across that there are better cars to use) but don't clog up the game with cars the majority of the game's players will not like.

Having 50+ skylines isn't that bad. There are only 2 or so actual repeats of the same car, just in different colors, but otherwise they are all different in one way or another. The Nissan Skyline has a huge (and successful) history. It means a lot to have them in the game, even if you don't like them.

Nascar on the other hand is a spec series. If anything, they should just use one body and make the different color schemes. (Dodge, Ford, Chevy) That is pretty much the only difference in them, other than the settings. ("give 'er a little more downforce to tight'n up the rear end")

 

[Joey D]

Well here is the short version just for you.

That didn't answer the question at all.

Nascar is well.......all the same.

So is Formula 1 and they had a whole series that was quite lengthy that was F1 cars only in GT4 if I'm not mistaken. I don't see what the point is saying there shouldn't be a stock car in the game because they are all the same. Many racing vehicles on the same, look at the Daytona Prototype racecars, all the same different engines.

You aren't making a very convincing argument not to have a stock car in the game. What you are doing is letting your bias for a dislike of modern stock car racing get in the way. I've told you I dislike stock car racing, but my dislike for it has nothing to do with whether a vehicle should be in it.

If PD wants to be serious in incorporating various forms of racing and reaching out to a large fan base they need to include all sorts of things. Various drag cars should be included as well (if we have a drag strip).

I'm not suggesting they put every single stock car into the game, but rather one from in nondescript manufacturer with a couple different fake liveries...much like the F1 cars were in past GT installments.

Having 50+ skylines isn't that bad. There are only 2 or so actual repeats of the same car, just in different colors, but otherwise they are all different in one way or another. The Nissan Skyline has a huge (and successful) history. It means a lot to have them in the game, even if you don't like them.

Yes it is, that is space and development time that could be put into other vehicles, whether they are race spec vehicles or stock ones.

Nascar on the other hand is a spec series. If anything, they should just use one body and make the different color schemes. (Dodge, Ford, Chevy) That is pretty much the only difference in them, other than the settings. ("give 'er a little more downforce to tight'n up the rear end")

Would you say the same for Daytona Prototypes? Many forms of racing have similar vehicles with different settings.

 

[Perfect Balance]

Yes it is, that is space and development time that could be put into other vehicles, whether they are race spec vehicles or stock ones.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a good idea to use the development on other cars, I'm just pointing out that most of the skylines were different, and they have a big enough history and following that it doesn't hurt to include them, unlike stock cars. The majority of the world's GT5 players don't like NASCAR, and don't want stock cars in the game.

Would you say the same for Daytona Prototypes? Many forms of racing have similar vehicles with different settings.

I would, but Daytona prototypes actually race on many different courses, instead of the same basic oval shape (I know there are exceptions) and the sport in general is a lot more professional and advanced/more people will enjoy those cars in the game.


Although I should say I wouldn't put Daytona Prototypes into the game either.

 

[Joey D]

The majority of the world's GT5 players don't like NASCAR, and don't want stock cars in the game.

You have proof of this? Please don't exaggerate.

I would, but Daytona prototypes actually race on many different courses, instead of the same basic oval shape (I know there are exceptions) and the sport in general is a lot more professional and advanced/more people will enjoy those cars in the game.


Although I should say I wouldn't put Daytona Prototypes into the game either.

Just because stock cars are based on oval course doesn't mean anything. It's all racing. And they should put Daytona Prototypes in the game as well. If you are truly a fan of the GT series you will want every type of car possible in the game to make it more complete and the best racer in the video game world.

 

[Perfect Balance]

You have proof of this? Please don't exaggerate.

Use logic. I've seen enough TV shows, magazines, books (written by race drivers), forum discussions, clothing, and all sorts of other things that shows how many people dislike NASCAR and everything it stands for. I shouldn't have to go into this, you've seen it yourself, I know you have.

Just because stock cars are based on oval course doesn't mean anything. It's all racing. And they should put Daytona Prototypes in the game as well. If you are truly a fan of the GT series you will want every type of car possible in the game to make it more complete and the best racer in the video game world.

I am truly a fan of the GT series, and I'm also a fan of engineering and professionalism, and logic. All of which NASCAR is lacking. That is my reasoning.

And frankly, I've never played a racing game and thought, "Man, this game would be the BEST racing game if only it had stock cars."

I don't think you need all types of racing to make it a good racing game.

 

[Spec M]

Correct.



I also like the fact that many Touring Car and GT series require the use of a factory body shell and other components like rear tail lights.



The issue is this. One of the elements with GT is that different types of cars from different series could go against each other. GT1 vs GT500 and LMP vs Group C.

Nascar is well.......all the same. It really is a type of racing that cant go against anything else. Yes, i suppose 1 stock car forced to race GT3 and other sub 400hp road racers could work. But a field of 16+ identical cars with different stickers wont work.

Consider it like this. In the future if PD were to make an F1 game, they would probably have modern F1 cars (F2007) going against old ones (312, 126, 642) and the like. That's kinda what you get, a mix of different things new and old.
But these cars have different features throughout the years. Many more than a stock car.

Answer:

Yes. The fact I think most forget is that no car has ever been restricted just one series. A DTM vehicle can be easily adapted to a JGTC inhabited field. F1 can mix and tangle with Group C or even perhaps modern Le Mans. How would a NASCAR stock adapt and be compared to some vehicles that pretty much presented to be the pinnacle and prime of motorsport engineering. Lets not forget the fact that there bound to handle like trash on a road course.

Nascar on the other hand is a spec series. If anything, they should just use one body and make the different color schemes.

Yes again. Thats all it really is to begin with.

clothing

That didn't answer the question at all.



So is Formula 1 and they had a whole series that was quite lengthy that was F1 cars only in GT4 if I'm not mistaken.

Answer

You're seriously comparing an F1 series to a Stockcar? Each course in the F1 series is totally different and have there own unique complexities. There seems to be more technological depth in an F1 cars tires alone than an entire stockcar. If there was an entire series of stockcars on oval tracks in GT, I would consider it to be a complete chore, and something I would want to be done with and never have to look back.

You aren't making a very convincing argument not to have a stock car in the game. What you are doing is letting your bias for a dislike of modern stock car racing get in the way. I've told you I dislike stock car racing, but my dislike for it has nothing to do with whether a vehicle should be in it.

Since I've personally been subscribed to this thread I've read many reasons why NASCAR wouldn't be fit in GT. Maybe its not convincing because its not what you want to hear.

If PD wants to be serious in incorporating various forms of racing and reaching out to a large fan base they need to include all sorts of things. Various drag cars should be included as well (if we have a drag strip).

Answer:

You see thats exactly it, they are reaching out to a large fan base because most of the cars in the game compete in real world international series. Last time I've heard, NASCAR series never leaves the states. And observing and seeing the obvious, only a "certain group" of Americans care for it with an acception of some others.

Another justified reason is not international and its popularity can't be compared to some of the othe championship/series featured and/or to be featured in the GT series.


If these dont answer your question or give you an idea why someone would be oppose to NASCAR.., well you must be the biased one. Either that or you're not reading these statements and absorbing them.

 

[Joey D]

Use logic. I've seen enough TV shows, magazines, books (written by race drivers), forum discussions, clothing, and all sorts of other things that shows how many people dislike NASCAR and everything it stands for. I shouldn't have to go into this, you've seen it yourself, I know you have.

I am using logic, NASCAR is insanely popular, it's the No.1 spectator sport in the United States and No.2 on television behind the NFL.

NASCAR is the No. 1 spectator sport -- holding 17 of the top 20 highest-attended sporting events in the U.S., and is the No. 2-rated regular season sport on television. NASCAR races are broadcast in more than 150 countries and in more than 30 languages.

Source:http://www.nascar.com/guides/about/nascar/

Once again please don't exaggerate and research before you make a claim. It is popular, just because you dislike it doesn't mean anything. You are allowed to despise it if you will, but in reality the numbers show that it is popular.

I am truly a fan of the GT series, and I'm also a fan of engineering and professionalism, and logic. All of which NASCAR is lacking. That is my reasoning.

And frankly, I've never played a racing game and thought, "Man, this game would be the BEST racing game if only it had stock cars."

I don't think you need all types of racing to make it a good racing game.

You are showing your lack of knowledge about Nascar, do you think those cars magically just happen? Lots of time goes into engineering, testing, and tuning the vehicles. You can not use the same car for every track, if you are at a track like Bristol, which is insanely short, it takes an entirely different type of car then what is used at say Talladega.

And it's not only the car that is engineered but things like safety as well. More time goes into these vehicles then you either realise or care to admit.

 

[Joey D]

You're seriously comparing an F1 series to a Stockcar? Each course in the F1 series is totally different and have there own unique complexities. There seems to be more technological depth in an F1 cars tires alone than an entire stockcar. If there was an entire series of stockcars on oval tracks in GT, I would consider it to be a complete chore, and something I would want to be done with and never have to look back.

Yes I am, you don't seem to understand that not all racing will be the same. You are showing your ignorance for stock car racing.

Since I've personally been subscribed to this thread I've read many reasons why NASCAR wouldn't be fit in GT. Maybe its not convincing because its not what you want to hear.

All I've seen in this thread is reason why people dislike NASCAR, which is fine, but I've never seen so many people up in arms about PD adding one car to the line up. Just consider it a bonus vehicle that you get to mess around with, we should be happy if they go ahead a branch out the series a bit.

You see thats exactly it, they are reaching out to a large fan base because most of the cars in the game compete in real world international series. Last time I've heard, NASCAR series never leaves the states. And observing and seeing the obvious, only a "certain group" of Americans care for it with an acception of some others.

You would be wrong then, there is a complete Canadian stock car series based on NASCAR (NASCAR Canadian Tire Series). Also there has been races in Mexico, Japan, and Australia with NASCAR itself.

NASCAR sanctions more than 1,200 races at 100 tracks in more than 30 U.S. states, Canada and Mexico.

Source:http://www.nascar.com/guides/about/nascar/

Another justified reason is not international and its popularity can't be compared to some of the othe championship/series featured and/or to be featured in the GT series.

Wrong again.

NASCAR races are broadcast in more than 150 countries and in more than 30 languages.

Source:http://www.nascar.com/guides/about/nascar/

If these dont answer your question or give you an idea why someone would be oppose to NASCAR.., well you must be the biased one. Either that or you're not reading these statements and absorbing them.

All you've done is share misinformation and shown that you know nothing about the motorsport you dislike. I don't care for NASCAR or stock car racing in general but I can at least see that it has popularity and that many people are into it. Just because you aren't doesn't mean there aren't several others who are. Also how can I be biased if I dislike the sport? I probably couldn't tell you the names of more then five current drivers and they are the ones from Coke commercials.

 

[Spec M]

You're still not getting the essentials bro.

I am using logic, NASCAR is insanely popular, it's the No.1 spectator sport in the United States and No.2 on television behind the NFL.

It seems that you aren't reading your responses entirely. Earlier I stated that most of GT's featured motorsport vehicles were part of an international racing series/championship, or under the wing of the FIA. NASCAR being popular here means nothing. Besides I live in motorcity and none of my friends/associates care for NASCAR either. Alot agree that the climax of the sports seems to be when theres a crash or two rednecks start to argue and scuffle with each other. Canada and Mexico are apart of North America. And if im correct your comparing this to the 18 countries that F1 visits in one season.

And you can keep your insults, as I've stated before this is a debate, if you can't handle people disagreeing with you, and discuss like a grown man without involving emotion or insult this is truly not for you.., NASCAR maybe though.

 

[Joey D]

You're still not getting the essentials bro.

Neither are you it seems.

It seems that you aren't reading your responses entirely. Earlier I stated that most of GT's featured motorsport vehicles were part of an international racing series/championship, or under the wing of the FIA. NASCAR being popular here means nothing. Besides I live in motorcity and none of my friends/associates care for NASCAR either. Alot agree that the climax of the sports seems to be when theres a crash or to rednecks start to argue and scuffle with each other.

Nope I am, I guess you missed this part though.

NASCAR sanctions more than 1,200 races at 100 tracks in more than 30 U.S. states, Canada and Mexico.

Canada and Mexico aren't the US and there has been races in both Australia and Japan.

Also this you missed as well:

NASCAR races are broadcast in more than 150 countries and in more than 30 languages.

That seems fairly international to me, 150 out of 195 countries seems like a pretty good number.

And you act like I'm not from the motorcity either, I don't know where you are but you must not pay attention very much. Go to a restaurant or bar on any given Sunday that isn't during NFL season and you will see people watching NASCAR events. Even then look around at the thousands of pickups with numbers of their favourite drivers on the back.

 

[Earth]

The more and more certain members try and fight a NASCAR appearing in GT5 the more their logic dissappoints me.

I'm very dissappointed in Soprano 3 1 3's posts because he finally admits he doesn't want the cars in the game because the sport is "boring" to him. That's fine, but why try and force your opinion on those who enjoy it? Sounds very selfish to me. I find F1 to be the most boring motorsport I follow, but do I try and block it appearing in GT5? No because I know there are those who enjoy it. Just because the number of poeple who enjoy NASCAR may be lower means jack squat

Same goes to Perfect Balance, these people have no good reason other then their hate for the cars and sport as to why NASCAR shouldn't appear in GT5. Ppoor reasons if you ask me.

Let me explain


1. Just because a NASCAR isnt a real stock car has nothing to do with whether it should be in GT5 or not. I see you are trying to say the series is a fraud and isn't as good as series who use racecars closer to thier on road counterpart, but the quality of a series in your opinion has nothing to do with whether it should be in or not. NASCAR is the most popular motorsport in the United States, that's good enough to consider it being included in the GT series.

2. Someone said a NASCAR could not have any similiar competition in GT so it shouldn't get in. What competition for Formula GT cars were in GT4 other then another generic Formula GT car?

3. It's funny how many say everyone wants great road courses like Spa and not ovals, yet what is the most popular track online? Daytona Oval. To say a 1.5 mile speedway and a 2.5 mile superspeedway is all what NASCAR ovals are shows a small amount of NASCAR knowledge. There are 5 basic NASCAR ovals, .5 mile short tracks, 1, 1.5, 2 and 2.5 mile superspeedways. Every track takes a different level of skill and car setup. Thinking that including Twin Ring Motegi and Daytona oval encomposes the large variety of ovals there are is just unknowledgeable of the sport. If you think they are all the same then go spend $120 on Amazon and buy NASCAR 2003 by Papyrus, the same minds behind Grand Prix Legends and your thinking will change once you drive a track like Phoenix and then Bristol. Once you find out how unique each track is you'll be one step closer to understanding just how challenging NASCAR and oval racing is.

4. It doesn't take track experience but rather basic motor racing knowledge to know Daytona oval was designed for powerful, heavy NASCARs and not the road cars we race on it in GT5P. No other type of car then stock cars has ever raced on the Daytona Oval. It denies racing logic to race other types of cars there, and is even worst to think you don't need stock cars to race on a stock car exclusive track.

5. I've noticed several members say they dislike NASCAR for various reasons or don't like the way it is run. Why don't they just come out and say that's the reason they don't want it in GT5P and stop hiding the truth. Quit piling up reasons why you hate the sport as reasons why NASCAR fans shouldn't enjoy the cars in GT5P.

6. So Suzuki Cappucinos and 50+ Skylines should be in GT5P but the #1 motorsport in the United States shouldn't be. Epic fail

 

[McLaren]

Then people could see how bad they actually are on anything other than an oval.

And? We had drag cars in GT2 that were good for absolutely nothing, and one could argue driving a Stock Car would at least be more exciting than driving a late 1800's Mercedes.

The issue is this. One of the elements with GT is that different types of cars from different series could go against each other. GT1 vs GT500 and LMP vs Group C.

And you do realize that that is incredibly unrealistic. A SuperGT GT500 car is fast enough to beat LMPs. So, what would be the problem with a Nascar against a GTS class car from ALMS?

Having 50+ skylines isn't that bad. There are only 2 or so actual repeats of the same car, just in different colors, but otherwise they are all different in one way or another. The Nissan Skyline has a huge (and successful) history. It means a lot to have them in the game, even if you don't like them.

So, because the Nissan Skyline has a great history, that gives perfect reason to have 50 of them?

Nascar history is longer and has been full of amazing things. By your def., Nascar being in should mean a lot to folks, even if you don't like them.

Use logic. I've seen enough TV shows, magazines, books (written by race drivers), forum discussions, clothing, and all sorts of other things that shows how many people dislike NASCAR and everything it stands for. I shouldn't have to go into this, you've seen it yourself, I know you have.

What kind of crap reason is this? So, because some people don't like Nascar, means they shouldn't be in?

I've seen enough people hate GT4 just for all the various Skylines, and such. Guess they shouldn't be in.

And btw, I have never seen any TV shows, magazines, or books written by race car drivers that say why they hate Nascar. I think you're just exaggerating utter nonsense, now. But since you have seen it, please, share with us what race car driver wrote about a book on why he hated Nascar.


And what is this everything Nascar stands for? You mean racing, and sponsors?

I am truly a fan of the GT series, and I'm also a fan of engineering and professionalism, and logic. All of which NASCAR is lacking. That is my reasoning.

Nascar lacks engineering and professionalism? I bet you think they're the easiest race cars to drive in the world, too.

 

[buickgnx88]

I think they should offer a few of the older stock cars, and at most one of each "make" of new stock cars. If they make us race with them, only have them be several laps and not like 100+. The stock cars themselves are cool, but the actual racing is very drab (IMO)

 

[Spec M]

Nope I am, I guess you missed this part thought:

And you have missed this:

And if im correct your comparing this to the 18 countries that F1 visits in one season.

And this:

And you can keep your insults, as I've stated before this is a debate, if you can't handle people disagreeing with you, and discuss like a grown man without involving emotion or insult this is truly not for you.., NASCAR maybe though.

The more and more certain members try and fight a NASCAR appearing in GT5 the more their logic dissappoints me.

I'm very dissappointed in Soprano 3 1 3's posts because he finally admits he doesn't want the cars in the game because the sport is "boring" to him. That's fine, but why try and force your opinion on those who enjoy it? Sounds very selfish to me.

And I've found it dissappointing that the negative have been quoted and my pratical reasoning hasn't. I also find it disapointing that grown men can't conversate and have a debate without blowing things out of context. One has to be "Forcing" something on to the other but at the same time is asked for personal reasoning. This is the type of sensitivity I try to avoid when enter into this type of thread. If I agreed with everyone it would no longer be a debate. The sensitivity is truly ashame and I expect more from grown men on the topic of a video game. If you feel my decision is selfish thats too bad. Its an opinion, I stand by it and since you obviously disregarded it, I'll sum it up once more . Now with this closing statement I will depart myself from this discusion since it seems obvious that feelings have been hurt and I obviously haven't composed a worthy contribution to the discusion.

Once again


There has never been a car in the GT series that hasn't been bound to one single series. The F1 cars can tandum with Group C or Le Mans and DTM can be adapted into a field inhabited with JGTC vehicles. In these series no two courses are similar in variant. Unlike in NASCAR, the vehicles are built for a specific type of track. Oval road courses are the primary variant of circuit these vehicles run on in a series with the exception of a few. Would on really want to adapt a stock car to a vehicle that could represent the pinnacle of motorsport engineering on some of the most complex,aerodynamic, and high cornering attributed road) courses of the world? No.., I personally "reckon" that these cars (if added) will scarcely be used. Since GT has always been primarily about road racing, and thats what im primarily interested in I'd rather have a handfull of ETCC cars. I have never hated NASCAR but I find some of its content utterly rediculous and since there is a game dedicated to the whole series thats arguably good, I cant help but stand oppose to it being in a game thats built upon road racing when theres so much more PD can choose from.

Some of the points I've stated before summed up for those who missed them. Trully ashame that a good debate could be overshadowed by sensitivity and emotion. Take it or leave it, I've stated my opinion and if you don't like them thats not a problem on my end. But don't blow it up to be something its not.

 

[McLaren]

There has never been a car in the GT series that hasn't been bound to one series. The F1 cars can tandum with Group C or Le Mans and DTM can be adapted into a field inhabited with JGTC vehicles. In these series no two courses are similar in variant. Unlike in NASCAR, the vehicles are built for a specific type of track. Oval road courses are the primary variant of circuit these vehicles run on in a series with the exception of a few. Would on really want to adapt a stock car to a vehicle that could represent the pinnacle of motorsport engineering on some of the most complex,aerodynamic, and high cornering attributed road) courses of the world? No.., I personally "reckon" that these cars (if added) will scarcely be used. Since GT has always been primarily about road racing, and thats what im primarily interested in I'd rather have a handfull of ETCC cars.

Some of the points I've stated before summed up for those who missed them. Trully ashame that a good debate could be overshadowed by sensitivity and emotion. Take it or leave, I've stated my opinion and if you don't like them thats not a problem on my end. But don't blow it up to be something its not.

And what would be the problem with Nascar doing the same thing, just with ALMS Corvettes/Vipers?

Nascar does go on road courses like those cars, too, which means they are capable of being setup to race on one.

 

[Earth]

To those who think everyone will find stock car oval racing boring and a waste of time if it was included in GT5

I went to Amazon.com and looked at the first user review. From a Formula 1 sim racing fan:

Even though I'm a huge racing sim fan, I've really had no interest in any of the Nascar related games. I generally prefer Formula 1 style racing sims. However, for some reason I decided to download the demo for Nascar Racing Season 2003 and I was hooked!

So he decided to give it a try, and like some who experienced oval racing for the first time in GT5P at Daytona he's become hooked and enjoyed himself

Nascar racing seems to translate very well to the PC. NR2003 captures the door to door racing and keeps the excitement level high. The tracks are pretty simple to learn (hey, there are only a couple of turns), but difficult to master, especially when you throw 40 other cars in the mix. In traffic you'll be fighting to keep your line as cars surround you and your own car always feels like it is on the verge of swapping ends.

The tracks are simple to learn as there is only 4 turns, but as he mentioned they are difficult to master. Each track has variable banking, different bumps, different angles of corners, different grip levels, different grooves, and I could go on and on. Again if you think all ovals are the same get NASCAR 2003 and prove yourself wrong.

If PD can nail the physics of a stock car like Papyrus did then the true challenge of pushing a stock car around an oval will be revealed. Easy to learn, difficult to master, can't say it better myself. The difference between the top drivers online and those in the back is usually around 1 second on an oval, but trying to find that one second is NOWHERE as easy as it sounds, IF they get the physics right. Notice how he says the car is always on the edge of control, nothing like the "go fast" turn left mentality.

If PD can get the tires of a stock car right then that's going to add another huge challenge to stock car oval racing, the tires wear out faster then any other form of motorsport I know of, which puts saving your tires at a premium. Many times online I have been able to keep up with the leaders for a while but fell back in the pack because I wore my tires out pushing too hard.

And unlike other motorsports the longer you drive on tires the slower you get and the worst the car handles, in F1 it's the opposite, the longer you drive and more fuel you burn off the better the car handles.

The large variety of tracks makes for very different racing experiences. On the superspeedways, drafting is king. Loose the lead pack and you're in for a long, lonely drive until you can work your way back into the lead draft. Small tracks like Bristol are wars of attritrion. By the end of a race your car will be fully battle scarred from brashing your way around the tight, fast track.

Now for someone who only raced F1 sims on road courses notice how he says there is a large variety of tracks. If Daytona Oval and Bristol and all the other NASCAR tracks were so similiar would he have said there are a large variety of ovals? No.

I haven't played any of the other versions of this game, so I can't comment on how good this is compared with the 2002 version. However, I will say that by itself, this version is simply amazing. Papyrus has done a great job of reproducing the Nascar experience. I (sadly) haven't touched F1 2002 in quite a while.

So he gave up F1 for stupid looking low technology low intelligence classless boring stock car oval racing.

Many former oval racing haters are enjoying themselves on the Daytona oval in GT5P, and they would enjoy oval racing even more if they were given proper oval track cars and a variety of oval tracks where you have to lift that make oval racing more challenging and fun, although the unrealistic draft takes alot out of the challenge. In oval racing .5 of a second is the difference between running first and 30th. In GT5P the super draft will erase that in no time. I wish they would change that, as real world draft is probably 5% as effective as it in the game.

Link
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000077WA5/?tag=gtplanet-20

 

[Spec M]

And what would be the problem with Nascar doing the same thing, just with ALMS Corvettes/Vipers?

Nascar does go on road courses like those cars, too, which means they are capable of being setup to race on one.

Yes thats true. Who said the couldn't run a road course. My question was how many people would actually pick the stockcar over the 2500lb C5R or Viper etc. before perhaps entering an online race at Suzuka Circuit. Im not being biased.., just consider what would you put your money on. Maybe my perception is a bit deeper than others I dont know.

PS: O'yea let me note for the third time to the general; I do not hate NASCAR.

 

[Studentdriver]

For everyone saying there's no international interest, well...that doesn't matter. Just go to the main page. The GT's 1 and 3 both sold extremely well in North America, and an extremely high percentage of that is likely from the United States.

 

[Earth]

And I've found it dissappointing that the negative have been quoted and my pratical reasoning hasn't. I also find it disapointing that grown men can't conversate and have a debate without blowing things out of context. One has to be "Forcing" something on to the other but at the same time is asked for personal reasoning. This is the type of sensitivity I try to avoid when enter into this type of thread. If I agreed with everyone it would no longer be a debate. The sensitivity is truly ashame and I expect more from grown men on the topic of a video game. If you feel my decision is selfish thats too bad. Its an opinion, I stand by it and since you obviously disregarded it, I'll sum it up once more . Now with this closing statement I will depart myself from this discusion since it seems obvious that feelings have been hurt and I obviously haven't composed a worthy contribution to the discusion.

Your decision and opinion is selfish. Your dislike of the sport is your primary reason in which it shouldn't be in GT5. You aren't alone, the others in this thread use the same reasoning and they too are selfish.

One reason some don't want it in because they may have to run an oval race or two to finish the game. If that's not selfish I don't know what is.

I don't want you to leave this discussion, I just want you and others to come up with better reasons to not include NASCAR other then how trashy and boring it may be to you.

You know lets not include a Suzuki Capaccuni because I may have to use it starting out in GT5 racing 50mph for a few race to collect money for my next ride or unlock and event. Brilliant


Once again

There has never been a car in the GT series that hasn't been bound to one single series. The F1 cars can tandum with Group C or Le Mans and DTM can be adapted into a field inhabited with JGTC vehicles.

An F1 car racing a Le Mans car. Now I've heard it all.

Maybe you don't know but GT5P has a PP system where cars can be downgraded or upgraded to reach a certain PP to match performance.

No.., I personally "reckon" that these cars (if added) will scarcely be used. Since GT has always been primarily about road racing, and thats what im primarily interested in I'd rather have a handfull of ETCC cars. I have never hated NASCAR but I find some of its content utterly rediculous and since there is a game dedicated to the whole series thats arguably good, I cant help but stand oppose to it being in a game thats built upon road racing when theres so much more PD can choose from.

So you don't hate NASCAR

Your point about there are plenty of NASCAR games are invalid, as there are plenty of F1 games so why the cries for more F1 cars in GT5? Because we want as many cars as possible in it.

GT has always had at least one oval track in their games with races held on them. We want oval track cars for oval tracks. That is not unreasonable.

Some of the points I've stated before summed up for those who missed them. Trully ashame that a good debate could be overshadowed by sensitivity and emotion. Take it or leave it, I've stated my opinion and if you don't like them thats not a problem on my end. But don't blow it up to be something its not.

Your opinon is in the minds of me and others flawed and selfish.

I do agree that you and others have raised some reasonable doubts about including stock cars, but nothing that should stop stock cars from being inclued in GT5.

PD is discovering that adding an oval track in Daytona has increased the excitement in the US market, and from the online numbers the track is the most popular both in the NTSC and Pal regions, so why should they stop now and not give more oval racing?

Whether you want to believe it or not drivers like the close racing oval racing creates. Online numbers prove that, and I see PD moving toward throwing oval racing in GT5P another bone, hopefully stock cars of some sort.

 

[Perfect Balance]

Once again please don't exaggerate and research before you make a claim. It is popular, just because you dislike it doesn't mean anything. You are allowed to despise it if you will, but in reality the numbers show that it is popular.

The only problem is that the United States isn't the world, and most of the NASCAR fans don't play GT. The ones who play GT are mostly fans of F1, Super GT, Le mans, ect ect.

You are showing your lack of knowledge about Nascar, do you think those cars magically just happen? Lots of time goes into engineering, testing, and tuning the vehicles. You can not use the same car for every track, if you are at a track like Bristol, which is insanely short, it takes an entirely different type of car then what is used at say Talladega.

And it's not only the car that is engineered but things like safety as well. More time goes into these vehicles then you either realise or care to admit.

Actually, the one thing that sets me apart from the typical people who just use the "Nascar only turns left and domestics suck: type arguments is that I actually learn about these things, which is why you don't see those type of "arguments" in my posts. The more I learn about Nascar, the more I dislike it.

Another thing, I never said that Nascars don't have a lot of engineering that goes into them. What I did say though, was that the amount is a LOT less. Did you ever notice in Nascar when they say "mechanics"?

In F1 they refer to them as engineers. Before you put words in my mouth, I'm not saying that Nascar doesn't have engineers, but the entire level of education and professionalism is significantly less. They use a lot of "rule of thumbs" and "on the job training" for their engineers. Not the best way to go when trying to come up with something better.

Same goes to Perfect Balance, these people have no good reason other then their hate for the cars and sport as to why NASCAR shouldn't appear in GT5. Ppoor reasons if you ask me.

Let me explain

See above. I've stated my reason clearly for not liking NASCAR. Apparently:

I'm also a fan of engineering and professionalism, and logic. All of which NASCAR is lacking. That is my reasoning.

That isn't good enough for you?

So, because the Nissan Skyline has a great history, that gives perfect reason to have 50 of them?

They weren't all the same.

What kind of crap reason is this? So, because some people don't like Nascar, means they shouldn't be in?

I've seen enough people hate GT4 just for all the various Skylines, and such. Guess they shouldn't be in.

And btw, I have never seen any TV shows, magazines, or books written by race car drivers that say why they hate Nascar. I think you're just exaggerating utter nonsense, now. But since you have seen it, please, share with us what race car driver wrote about a book on why he hated Nascar.

Well, for magazines, pick up an issue of "RaceCar Engineering" sometime. Ironic that a magazine about engineering makes fun of NASCAR for being so not technologically advanced when it's apparently so advanced.

One book I know off the top of my head, but slightly older, is "Driving Ambitions" by Alan Jones (his autobiography) . He calls NASCAR "primitive" saying that the teams aren't very professional or organized, and practice sessions basically started off by showing up at a track and saying "lets drive" and that was it.

I'm sure you've seen the clothes.

And what is this everything Nascar stands for? You mean racing, and sponsors?

Nascar lacks engineering and professionalism? I bet you think they're the easiest race cars to drive in the world, too.

No, that isn't what I meant. Look at the fitness of typical NASCAR drivers, their crew chiefs have an average education of high school and nothing else. Look at their fan base, mainly just a bunch of ignorant beer guzzling rednecks. (please, don't try to make me prove this one, look at the people in the stands at any race) Their cars aren't too advanced so they can relate more to their fans and the "good ole days" ( I've actually heard this numerous times from die-hard NASCAR fans)

EDIT: I shouldn't mention the "car of the future" as they called it. Very ignorant of them. When did "ground effects" come in again? 40 years ago or so?

Listen to the commentators, listen to the reasons some of the drivers give for screwing up, the way they explain problems with the car. Oh yea, did I mention the beer? Nascar represents the American way of life, which is why so many Americans love the sports, because it relates to them in a big way.

It's all very unprofessional. I talk in a more technical manner, with (more) proper terminology than most (if not all) of the drivers/mechanics (what they call their engineers)/ crew chiefs, and anyone else involved in the sport. Even their mentality reeks of ignorance.

Don't assume I don't know anything about NASCAR. I never said they were easy to drive either.

 

[Earth]

Perfect Balance I found your post very entertaining, great read.

 

[Spec M]

Earth No, I sincerely dont hate NASCAR, as a matter of fact I've just spent a hefty eighty bucks on a Rusty Wallace piece.

Im a general automotive enthusiast so I'm required to love everything. NASCAR is just my least favorite.
I don't remember saying "there are plenty of Nascar games". Formula cars have been in since 2001 but made official in GT5P so aparently they belong there
and thats not up for debate. I don't recall any cries for more F1 cars. Just the fact that I want to see more and would pick them without thinkning twice over a stockcar. And yes an F1 racing a Le Mans, I guess that sounds more rediculous than a ALMS C5R competing with a stockcar on a road course.

 

[Perfect Balance]

Perfect Balance I found your post very entertaining, great read.

If only that was all it took.

It sucks having to try and explain yourself at 12 at night. I can't think straight.

 

[Earth]

Earth No, I sincerely dont hate NASCAR, as a matter of fact I've just spent a hefty eighty bucks on a Rusty Wallace piece.

Im a general automotive enthusiast so I'm required to love everything. NASCAR is just my least favorite.
I don't remember saying "there are plenty of Nascar games". Formula cars have been in since 2001 but made official in GT5P so aparently they belong there
and thats not up for debate. I don't recall any cries for more F1 cars. Just the fact that I want to see more and would pick them without thinkning twice over a stockcar. And yes an F1 racing a Le Mans, I guess that sounds more rediculous than a ALMS C5R competing with a stockcar on a road course.

The problem with these message boards is that you have to communicate through typing words and this takes forever to find out what the other guy is exactly talking about.

You see me as getting sensitive, I am a sensitive person in real life with very thin skin. People get on my nerves very easily. As you can imagine trying to communicate through words frustrates me at times when trying to discuss issues like this.

I'm sure you find my reasoning as odd as I find yours and message boards only add to the chaos as one will make one point, then that point will be countered, then it goes back and forth back and forth until someone finally blows a top.

I'm usually the one who blows a top first, and I've told myself many times to not get involved in online discussions like this because they always go NOWHERE. Nobody is going to give in to the other side and it just goes back and forth.

I had left this thread for dead but Motorminded made a post claiming that because I have no track time I didn't understand something, I don't remember what it was but I dont' feel like looking it up, but it was directed at me and not having track time had nothing to do with understanding whatever that was so I got back in, and it was a mistake.

I'm not going to change any minds on message boards. So I'll bow out of this thread and will try not to get into discussions like this with others for reasons mentioned above.

 

[Spec M]

It sucks having to try and explain yourself at 12 at night.

Especially when you have to state one point 3 times.