Nenkai (X/Twitter): Kaz is cooking

[MIE1992]

I know Nenkai can generally be trusted, but for caution’s sake, I’m still treating his report as a rumor and nothing more. I suppose I’ll see what happens this Sunday.

 

[TumeK5]

I won't be upset if we get a Toyota Celica 1600GT, I promise

I wouldn't be upset if we got a Toyota Altezza, either

 

[MonoTonouS]

I think with the GT7's level of customization, the RM feature could be replaced by racing cockpit upgrades for the cars. That's basically the only thing missing, we can tune the cars to be faster than their Racing Versions but we have to keep the standard interior as it is for now...

They can pretty much do this if they added the option to add in aftermarket steering wheels and brought back the gauge's from GT6.
If they wanted to take it an extra step let us change seats / remove seats .

 

[MIE1992]

I wouldn't be upset if we got a Toyota Altezza, either

IMO I think we could use more Lexus models, including those that were Toyota models in Japan, like the IS300 and the SC430.

EDIT: I’d totally be down for more Infiniti models, too, since we only have the VGT. Maybe a newer Q60 or something? Alongside the more iconic G35, too.

 

[TumeK5]

IMO I think we could use more Lexus models, including those that were Toyota models in Japan, like the IS300 and the SC430.

IS200, actually. RS200's Lexus equivalent. IS200 has less power than RS200 but retains the same body. IS300 is slightly revised

 

[MIE1992]

IS200, actually. RS200's Lexus equivalent. IS200 has less power than RS200 but retains the same body. IS300 is slightly revised

Ah, but I think only the IS300 had the 2JZ, right?

 

[TumeK5]

Ah, but I think only the IS300 had the 2JZ, right?

Looking at Wikipedia, it would appear so.

So basically:

IS200 looks like RS200, but without the same engine
IS300 has revised bumpers, but has the RS200 engine

I'm not sure how it works, as there appear to be IS300's which share the look of the RS/IS200, but then there are slightly different looking ones, and I'm not talking about the wagon.

 

[Nielsen]

IMO I think we could use more Lexus models, including those that were Toyota models in Japan, like the IS300 and the SC430.

Why do you want export versions of JDM cars? I’d say it would be better to add the Toyora Soarer than the Lexus SC430.

 

[MIE1992]

Why do you want export versions of JDM cars? I’d say it would be better to add the Toyora Soarer than the Lexus SC430.

I suppose in the particular case of the SC430, it’s mostly because we already have it in GT500-spec, so I think it’d make sense to have the road-going version alongside that.

 

[newmedia_dev]

It's really weird as Lexus isn't a massive brand in the UK like it is in other parts of the world.

Also the SC430 is an awful car on UK roads

 

[05XR8]

It’s the same with getting left hand drive versions of JDM cars. I’d prefer to have the RHD GT-R ‘17 and GR Corolla. While others may may be glad those are LHD.

 

[Confus]

People are still mad about the Himedic being added? A vehicle that was added 2 months ago?

You know, personally I'm tired of seeing the same new supercars or hypercars added to every game, and this is where I think PD shine with their car list. It's good to have a game that doesn't have the highest trim level of everything and also cars you wouldn't normally expect to be in a game like this, hence the Himedic. If you're still upset about them adding an ambulance over whatever vaporware hypercar came out yesterday, then you need to just move on

I'm sure this will get poo reacted to hell and someone will say that I'm "part of the problem" or something, but personally I don't see any issue with what PD are doing.

In the olden times, we had Gran Turismo games that were full of strange little contraptions you could buy at the used car lot for 7,500 credits and spend all day modifying. That was actually a great way of learning the intricacies of modifying cars and understanding the basics of car control while simultaneously expanding your knowledge of the automotive world beyond the bubble of whatever country you lived in. Gran Turismo is really a big reason why tuner culture took off in the US. It would be a shame if the series abandoned those roots to just be another white-noise hypercar-filled title.

 

[Revengel]

In the olden times, we had Gran Turismo games that were full of strange little contraptions you could buy at the used car lot for 7,500 credits and spend all day modifying.

I feel seen . . .

 

[newmedia_dev]

In the olden times, we had Gran Turismo games that were full of strange little contraptions you could buy at the used car lot for 7,500 credits and spend all day modifying. That was actually a great way of learning the intricacies of modifying cars and understanding the basics of car control while simultaneously expanding your knowledge of the automotive world beyond the bubble of whatever country you lived in. Gran Turismo is really a big reason why tuner culture took off in the US. It would be a shame if the series abandoned those roots to just be another white-noise hypercar-filled title.

I agree and also disagree, 14 year old me was introduced to
A whole world of cars.

14 year old me banged a massive turbo on everything while going to the shop to buy Revs, Max Power and Fast car

14 year old me tried loads of different cars out for fun.

Much older me would rather balanced competitive racing rather than out naturally frequencing someone with higher compression dampers.

Its all horses for courses but its roots were in giving people a choice of cars to drive and introducing new ones.

Tuning was not the goal just a by product of the culture at the time

 

[Confus]

Tuning was not the goal just a by product of the culture at the time

The tuning culture did already exist in the US, but it was somewhat more niche before the days of GT.

I'm also all for racing games having a wide variety of cars, but I think a lot of new players are too quick to turn their noses up at the inclusion of some of the more mundane offerings.

 

[newmedia_dev]

The tuning culture did already exist in the US, but it was somewhat more niche before the days of GT.

I'm also all for racing games having a wide variety of cars, but I think a lot of new players are too quick to turn their noses up at the inclusion of some of the more mundane offerings.

Yeah absolutely you only need to watch a ZZ top video or look at US hot rods of the 1950s

Same in the UK with the escort MK1 and 2 but the 1990s brought turbo charging to the main stream and realistically it was the Japanese that popularised 4wd big turbo cars and some (a lot) of FR turbo cars in to the mix. Top Secret Supra?

It's actually massively interesting when you think about it.

The Japanese cars derived a whole bunch of car tech and driving styles (drifting) as a thing.

The US or North America when the full horsepower dragster route

The UK bread and butter racing in the 90s was touring cars (lotus cortina through the the beast of the Volvo 850R estate)

Europe went down the GT3 route

But in terms of tuning it's always been very prevalent in most if not all driving countries, cars, bikes jet skis you name it.

But where I think tuning has two sides is based on simplicity.

More power, better brakes, lower, gear ratios.

In the real world most people have zero idea what damping compression really translates in to. Nor do I really understand natural frequency. I get caster for drift cars but no idea if 1.2 or 1.3 is better or worse on those angles in the game.

Also the new 14 year me coming in to the game today will have no idea either

 

[MonoTonouS]

Yeah absolutely you only need to watch a ZZ top video or look at US hot rods of the 1950s

Same in the UK with the escort MK1 and 2 but the 1990s brought turbo charging to the main stream and realistically it was the Japanese that popularised 4wd big turbo cars and some (a lot) of FR turbo cars in to the mix. Top Secret Supra?

It's actually massively interesting when you think about it.

The Japanese cars derived a whole bunch of car tech and driving styles (drifting) as a thing.

The US or North America when the full horsepower dragster route

The UK bread and butter racing in the 90s was touring cars (lotus cortina through the the beast of the Volvo 850R estate)

Europe went down the GT3 route

But in terms of tuning it's always been very prevalent in most if not all driving countries, cars, bikes jet skis you name it.

But where I think tuning has two sides is based on simplicity.

More power, better brakes, lower, gear ratios.

In the real world most people have zero idea what damping compression really translates in to. Nor do I really understand natural frequency. I get caster for drift cars but no idea if 1.2 or 1.3 is better or worse on those angles in the game.

Also the new 14 year me coming in to the game today will have no idea either

JDM tuning culture is incredibly american though. California , as much as I hate to admit it, was the hotbed for tuner culture as much as Japan. Tuning culture was reserved for the wealthy in japan , In california every one was tuning.

Two of my uncles were street racers in the 90's , mostly doing drags down in Compton , both started with Integras , moved up to the top trims , engine swapped and held their own out there then got absolutely murdered when the Evo's came out stateside . My oldest uncle had a NSX at the time and the younger one still had his Teggy. Both ended up buying evo 8's and having them modified and tuned heavily by road race. One still owns his evo , the other owns multiple and a R33 and a Lambo now 😂.
That's just one example but recently i learned of the " Cali type R" Integra mod.
I do find it normal if people want USDM spec versions of japanese cars , they had a larger following here . Such examples are the Eclipse and the first two gen Rx7's and the S2000. The S2000 should be USDM spec anyways , It was DESIGNED for the american market .

 

[Confus]

JDM tuning culture is incredibly american though. California , as much as I hate to admit it, was the hotbed for tuner culture as much as Japan. Tuning culture was reserved for the wealthy in japan , In california every one was tuning.

Two of my uncles were street racers in the 90's , mostly doing drags down in Compton , both started with Integras , moved up to the top trims , engine swapped and held their own out there then got absolutely murdered when the Evo's came out stateside . My oldest uncle had a NSX at the time and the younger one still had his Teggy. Both ended up buying evo 8's and having them modified and tuned heavily by road race. One still owns his evo , the other owns multiple and a R33 and a Lambo now 😂.
That's just one example but recently i learned of the " Cali type R" Integra mod.
I do find it normal if people want USDM spec versions of japanese cars , they had a larger following here . Such examples are the Eclipse and the first two gen Rx7's and the S2000. The S2000 should be USDM spec anyways , It was DESIGNED for the american market .

I would argue that Japan really was at the forefront of tuning culture during the golden era of the 90's and early 2000s. Everyone wanted to copy what they were seeing in early Hot Version and Option2 videos, and the USDM-ified tuning culture kind of came out of that. We were always trying to catch up to Japan (and still are in many ways).

Where I do think the US edged out Japan was in the realm of modified Hondas. We were very much at the forefront of development for Honda performance because of our national interest in drag racing. Of course there were those shops in Japan that specialized in Hondas and built some incredible demo cars and parts, but, at least to me as an outsider, it doesn't seem like modified Hondas were as ubiquitous in Japan as they came to be here.

 

[BangsMcCoy]

The biggest difference to me was that Sophy can be defended against in that it's aware of your car and knows to back off if there's no space (in most cases at least). Compared to the current AI that will merrily pit maneuver you down the straights to get back onto their prescribed racing line if you happen to be in the way.

Thanks, I noticed that myself, it just felt like a minor improvement over current AI to me rather than a significant one as I recall on numerous occasions Sophy running/bumping into me as current AI also does. I also recall Sophy cars running into each other on more than one occasion, especially in turns. Sophy did it maybe less frequently or less aggressively, but definitely still did it.
Sophy did seem a bit less “on rails” and programmed, and a bit more “aware” kind of like these self driving vehicles I see out and about and can tell they’re actively trying to figure out what to do in certain situations where they get a bit confused by something and have to quickly find a solution and proceed with it to keep going. It’s fun to watch from afar, but scary if you’re near them.
In my experience Sophy just didn’t seem like some significant improvement that I immediately needed more of. It felt like it had a lot of room for improvement to me, otherwise just a slightly “smarter” version of current AI that can also fire off about 100 emojis per minute.
I’ve honestly had tougher competition with current AI in some of the chili races. Maybe I shouldn’t necessarily expect overall “better” AI but rather just a “cleaner” AI from Sophy?

I disagree completly sophy is conpletly different to the standard ai, i raced both, and their was big difference, they actully race you unlike the standard ai, and they have far better pace, and keep in mind it was just in beta form, but to think its even thexsame as the standard ai is very far from the truth

Thanks for sharing your experience. I very much agree it felt like a Beta form of Sophy, which is why I assumed some people are more excited for its potential, rather than what it currently is, because as it was when I experienced it wasn’t much of a difference from current AI and definitely not better than AI is in some of the chili races.
I disagree about Sophy having a far better pace though, the only exception for me was I noticed their cornering speed being better than current AI who tend to break too hard/too soon for most turns and corners.

I think you should watch some video analysis on it by experts like Super GT.

Sophy's racecraft was very good, almost creepy at times. I'm not sure how you're interpreting its decisions as dumb - no offense to your skill level but I have to assume that interpretation is due to a lack of experience. While the easier Sophy cars were slow and easy to pass, they still made rational decisions, like avoiding contact even if you divebombed them. The more challenging Sophys would actually avoid that contact on purpose and pull a switcheroo, something that isn't necessarily advanced but requires some experience and awareness from a human driver. The difficult Sophys required sheer precision to beat while still having a really creepy human-like awareness of your presence. I think they may have been too aggressive defensively but they were definitely aware and made preemptive decisions, something completely lacking from the normal AI.



So basically it came down to awareness and preemptive decision making. That's what humans do and that's why it was so impressive and challenging.

Thanks for the link, I’ll check it out.
I’m not saying Sophy is dumb or garbage, I just didn’t see a big improvement over current AI when I ran those races. I’m definitely not a top/expert driver as I mentioned in my post, but I’m also not a novice with little to no skill. I’m definitely not one to divebomb others or intentionally get in their line and then act like they’re at fault for hitting me.

I think maybe I‘ve been expecting too much from Sophy based on the responses I’ve gotten. To me, to get excited about it or consider it a game changing improvement rather than a minor improvement, something that I desperately want in the game right now, I’d need to see more from it. But I guess that’s just me.

 

[newmedia_dev]

JDM tuning culture is incredibly american though. California , as much as I hate to admit it, was the hotbed for tuner culture as much as Japan. Tuning culture was reserved for the wealthy in japan , In california every one was tuning.

That is not what really happened.

Tuning was a thing ever since people could afford a car.

It's also forgetting that in Europe we were tuning cars like the mini before the civics and supras existed.

I don't think one culture proliferated tuning as a thing, more they took what they wanted from it in different directions.

But and it's my fault this isn't what the tread is about.

 

[Hlavco]

I suppose in the particular case of the SC430, it’s mostly because we already have it in GT500-spec, so I think it’d make sense to have the road-going version alongside that.

It still bugs me that the late-model VW Beetle is available as a pre-built race car, but not as a normal road car.

 

[sirjim73]

Bingo time

1. Sophy
2. B-Spec
3. A new track
4. Between 3 and 6 cars
5. Endurance racing. Not missions.
6. A complete change to world circuit races.

3 wouldn't be the "biggest GT7 update" (quoting Nenkai) though as we've had Grand Valley.
Neither would 4 either.
It's something bigger than either or both of those (unless it's 2 tracks or I think Pikes Peak might qualify at a stretch).

My instinct is it's a change in the game itself somehow (either B Spec, Sophy integration or something along those lines).

So my bingo is:

1. Spec II (fundamental change to game) (which would also cover a greatly improved career)
2. Sophy integration
3. B Spec
4. Course maker
5. An integrated racing licence (by that I mean not just cars like with Super GT, but a whole licensed game component such as IMSA) - something like ACC's GT3 campaign.

 

[Nebuc72]

Thanks, I noticed that myself, it just felt like a minor improvement over current AI to me rather than a significant one as I recall on numerous occasions Sophy running/bumping into me as current AI also does. I also recall Sophy cars running into each other on more than one occasion, especially in turns. Sophy did it maybe less frequently or less aggressively, but definitely still did it.
Sophy did seem a bit less “on rails” and programmed, and a bit more “aware” kind of like these self driving vehicles I see out and about and can tell they’re actively trying to figure out what to do in certain situations where they get a bit confused by something and have to quickly find a solution and proceed with it to keep going. It’s fun to watch from afar, but scary if you’re near them.
In my experience Sophy just didn’t seem like some significant improvement that I immediately needed more of. It felt like it had a lot of room for improvement to me, otherwise just a slightly “smarter” version of current AI that can also fire off about 100 emojis per minute.
I’ve honestly had tougher competition with current AI in some of the chili races. Maybe I shouldn’t necessarily expect overall “better” AI but rather just a “cleaner” AI from Sophy?


Thanks for sharing your experience. I very much agree it felt like a Beta form of Sophy, which is why I assumed some people are more excited for its potential, rather than what it currently is, because as it was when I experienced it wasn’t much of a difference from current AI and definitely not better than AI is in some of the chili races.
I disagree about Sophy having a far better pace though, the only exception for me was I noticed their cornering speed being better than current AI who tend to break too hard/too soon for most turns and corners.


Thanks for the link, I’ll check it out.
I’m not saying Sophy is dumb or garbage, I just didn’t see a big improvement over current AI when I ran those races. I’m definitely not a top/expert driver as I mentioned in my post, but I’m also not a novice with little to no skill. I’m definitely not one to divebomb others or intentionally get in their line and then act like they’re at fault for hitting me.

I think maybe I‘ve been expecting too much from Sophy based on the responses I’ve gotten. To me, to get excited about it or consider it a game changing improvement rather than a minor improvement, something that I desperately want in the game right now, I’d need to see more from it. But I guess that’s just me.

For what it's worth, you aren't alone. Sophy was pretty 'meh' to me, and her racecraft was shocking. She was fast across a lap, but she has absolutely no semblance of how to overtake and if you simply held the inside line she'd just trundle around behind you, either not making an attempt to overtake or just hitting you in the back.

Wasn't impressed at all. I personally think a lot of big YouTubers making videos on her were doing it for the engagement rather than because they were genuinely impressed by her abilities.

No 'good' AI would let you get away with this:

 

[Peter.]

Really? All other racing/driving games have the latest cars you speak down about and the fans arent complaining lol. Most objective fans of the GT series, I'm sure, want at updated GT3 cars like Ferrari 488GT3 at least, maybe even some updated to 2019/2020 GT3 cars if not current versions? lol....BTW, you will continue to see that joke lol.

Neither one of us is speaking for everyone but it seems quite a few are ok with mediocre or old content these days. We get good content in the updates like the Valkyrie/Sema cars etc but there are cars given I doubt the majority were clamoring for. Who wouldn't have wanted a newer GT3 car or road car like a Senna, reg P1/720S/765lt, ACR, M5, Singer Porsches etc over an ambulance, cappucino etc?

Edit: Keep the doodoo spaming coming. Its hilarious haha...

Is a new addition of an older car being added to the game a new car or an old car???

That's not a real question, because obviously any new car added to the game is still a new and worthy addition even if it isn't the 2023 Ferrari Purosangue or some new Gr 3 also-rans that probably won't replace the existing Sport mode meta at all without a major BOP overhaul.

Sometimes the loudest complainers online get misrepresented as a representative of the majority, but then when you see people basically clamor for the game to cater to the preferences of the hardcore sim racer chasing realism at every angle(a minority for a flagship, mass marketed first party title), or to fill itself with the latest supercars, only to see that online/sport mode is taken up by a relatively small percentage of players (there is trophy data backing this), and that the Vaklyrie you mentioned pretty much made waves for a day or two without anywhere near the fanfare that the 'controversial' HiMedic did, who really knows what people want here?

As forum users and the chronically online we need to consider how little we know as fans, we are already in the minority taking our passions and emotions online to share with others, good or bad. It would do a world of good to feel less entitled to the game's direction and the content it doesn't have yet. After all, there are games that do have some of those GT3 cars you want.

 

[Techlet]

I’ve honestly had tougher competition with current AI in some of the chili races. Maybe I shouldn’t necessarily expect overall “better” AI but rather just a “cleaner” AI from Sophy?

That's pretty much been my takeaway too.

A lot of it also depends on car setup. Outside of the 1v1, the Sophy cars were all detuned compared to the player car. It's how PD managed their pace in the trial. And with some of the chili races, you get the opposite (the engine swapped Mini for example).

 

[newmedia_dev]

That's pretty much been my takeaway too.

A lot of it also depends on car setup. Outside of the 1v1, the Sophy cars were all detuned compared to the player car. It's how PD managed their pace in the trial. And with some of the chili races, you get the opposite (the engine swapped Mini for example).

The reality to me, is that AI sounds awesome.

But how do they tune it to let you win?

AI will always be better than us in every driving aspect.

Awareness it sees more than our radar
Position it can the control the car at pace to be where it wants
Pace....I don't think I need to explain this one other than it can do every optimal line at every speed.

So when we talk about AI, we don't really want Sophy because we'd like to win races. What we want is a more competitive AI Sophy or native doesn't matter.

 

[Ande3200]

For me at least sophy ai is still miles better than standard ai even the beta versions is better, the standard ai is just roadblocks its like racing with traffic cars no challange at all, in sophy 1vs1 if they got a head of you its pretty much done most would not be able to keep up, i would be very happy with more sophy challanges

 

[newmedia_dev]

For me at least sophy ai is still miles better than standard ai even the beta versions is better, the standard ai is just roadblocks its like racing with traffic cars no challange at all, in sophy 1vs1 if they got a head of you its pretty much done most would not be able to keep up, i would be very happy with more sophy challanges

But most if not all people play to race.

You can't out tune Sophy as the test showed neutering cars up to the top Sophy.

You can't out drive it realistically because it's better.

So now they have to down tune it, but I imagine everyone's ability is different so what I might find boring you might find fun or challenging and vice versa.

Better collision detection and more chilli based focus is probably what we all need rather than poor or super human AI

Or actually maybe we need both.

A caveat to this is I'd prefer to race real people over AI. It's more challenging and "human" it's also why team death match slaying bots is no fun compared to human matches.

But everyone has different mileage on these things

 

[Ande3200]

But most if not all people play to race.

You can't out tune Sophy as the test showed neutering cars up to the top Sophy.

You can't out drive it realistically because it's better.

So now they have to down tune it, but I imagine everyone's ability is different so what I might find boring you might find fun or challenging and vice versa.

Better collision detection and more chilli based focus is probably what we all need rather than poor or super human AI

Or actually maybe we need both.

A caveat to this is I'd prefer to race real people over AI. It's more challenging and "human" it's also why team death match slaying bots is no fun compared to human matches.

But everyone has different mileage on these things

I dont want to race against real people i just want to jump in and enjoy my self in the cars i prefer driving,

 

[newmedia_dev]

I dont want to race against real people i just want to jump in and enjoy my self in the cars i prefer driving,

Then you don't need AI to do that.