NFS Shift 2 Unleashed - Details

  • Thread starter LittleLefty
  • 2,278 comments
  • 245,099 views
How about talking of how they have changed the car's handling characteristics to have it simulate reality, as in the way the car grips from corner to corner, how they've modelled braking to be more accurate, the way the car behaves when loosing traction or in any other scenario where it was more arcade-like in Shift 1 than sim-like?

Sure though, this is hard for the developers to translate to us themselves, we need an outside source who has played to game to comment on this for best results.

You mean like this?

When we created SHIFT, EA was still very unsure about going full-out for a simulation experience, and SHIFT therefore was really just an initial move in that direction. The overwhelming feedback clearly indicated that the community by and large was ready for a ‘proper’ racing simulation, not a ‘semi-sim.’

We still accommodate the player who wants to ‘take it easy’ by providing plenty of assists and simpler driving models. We now have an ‘Elite’ mode though that strips away all the hand-holding, provides a fully detailed damage model (you can even break the wheels off the car), and fully exposes the proper racing physics to the player. There’s an extensive visual telemetry system that provides the player with a detailed real-time breakdown of everything that’s happening with the car (tyre heat, shock travel, g-forces, and so forth).

I think they're not talking about that stuff by and large because they haven't improved it much. The physics stuff was good already (see other games based on similar engines, rFactor, GTR, etc), but they were forced to dumb it down for Shift 1. The first part of the above quote is basically an admission of that. Thus, they haven't improved the physics so much as removed the restraints from it. Although obviously they're not keen to come right out and say that because it puts EA, who pays their wages, in a bad light.
 
To me it sounds more like a game design / feature specific thing going "full sim" that they're talking about here (eg. enabling features that worked and were coded for Shift 1 like tyre wear, critical damage, etc).

Physics wise - I am sure they have improved the engine, and getting better (non-generic) suspensions is an extremely large step forward too. But I would definitely argue against this perception that there was some massively hardcore version of Shift 1 - physics data wise - and EA made them change it all to something arcadey. What you see in Shift 1 data is basically guys in a big, big hurry to meet milestones, and there is really not a lot of trace of some massively hardcore physics data that went unused somehow. Lots of hurriedly copied templates sharing the same bugs, lots of features that are partially turned on without really getting the full grasp of the consequences of leaving them like that, lots of examples of the UI and game being designed in different places, for sure. But you just don't see anything in the interface, game data that is used, unused leftovers, etc, that indicates that it ever really worked much better or differently than it does.

To me it seems more like something where they went "there is no way we can ship x cars with x upgrade levels in time" and threw in a bunch of stuff that is serviceable in that it mostly works and is a reasonable rendition of what they're trying to do. But I'm pretty sure the reason you see eg. cars with the same basic engine type using literally exactly the same engine, the reason why you see (broken) car specific suspensions laying around unused, etc, is because they had gigantic time / milestone pressure, not from some focus group that told them "no, make this car use a generic suspension that makes handling vastly worse than it should be".

The big thing I would lay at EA's feet on the first game though, was the UI, which it looks like was done by their people, not SMS. However much people don't like it in the front end, the back end is so much worse you can't imagine it - just unutterably horrible and must have really complicated things for internal/external testing, and seems to have led to some physics bugs all of its own (eg. it looks a lot like brake cooling rates were adjusted around a UI bug that screwed up brake bias).
 
Last edited:
Physics wise - I am sure they have improved the engine, and getting better (non-generic) suspensions is an extremely large step forward too. But I would definitely argue against this perception that there was some massively hardcore version of Shift 1 - physics data wise - and EA made them change it all to something arcadey.

Fair enough, that would make more sense.

I remember VVV saying something along the lines of that he'd played an early version of Shift 1 (like, an alpha version or something) and he had been remarkably impressed with the handling, which had then felt to him like it had been nerfed in the final release. It is a bit conspiracy theory though, and it is possible that he just got one of the good cars to test in the alpha or that his perception or recall was totally off. Comparing two things a long time apart isn't exactly a good recipe for accuracy.
 


these are the events of the career

I don't know if the number mean the single races or a racing series with more event, if not there are only 66 races.. I mean for ex fia gt1 says 0/4, is it only 4 races or 4 racing events with more races in them?
 
Last edited:
I remember VVV saying something along the lines of that he'd played an early version of Shift 1 (like, an alpha version or something) and he had been remarkably impressed with the handling, which had then felt to him like it had been nerfed in the final release. It is a bit conspiracy theory though, and it is possible that he just got one of the good cars to test in the alpha or that his perception or recall was totally off. Comparing two things a long time apart isn't exactly a good recipe for accuracy.

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't want anyone to take my version of things as the definitive version, because I wasn't there - but all the same, as far as I know, I don't really know of anyone external to the team who has dug into as many of the Shift game systems / as deeply as I have overall. Definitely you see some cars that are / were at a better state than others - things like the Porsche 997s, and most of the Ferraris, I would absolutely believe were reined in a bit to fit into the rest of the game. But the overall impression you get is of someone in a serious hurry going through and setting the game data to conform to the career/ui capabilities/number of cars/etc. Past those cars I mentioned, you are pretty heavily into stuff that looks like the overriding priority was "don't break anything and keep it near something we know works".

The engine itself is fantastic, and it allows a lot of 'emergent' sort of behaviours from tyre sizes, wheel positions, car dimensions, etc, to shape car behaviour a lot more than if they were simply using the straight ISI _motor engine. That part is great. However, the leftover parts of the ISI engine aren't so great at eating generic data. In a way it's kind of a strength turned into a weakness - the greater the capability for different dimensionality of car behaviours, the less likely it is to turn out well if you just throw any old thing in there, if that makes sense.

For a lot of cars, this works out - I think Kaz even mentioned during GT5 development that really, these days, a lot of cars end up exactly the same - the days of manufacturers making radically different layouts, suspension designs, etc, are pretty much over with now, and to an extent a given car with a given wheelbase and a given HP and a given suspension layout is going to behave pretty predictably compared to another car sharing 99% of the same basic properties. But in some cases they went a little bit too far with this stuff, or didn't make a decent default tune for the car, or made something that was suited to different game settings than people ended up actually using, etc. That stuff is generally the sort of thing you see towards the tail end of game development anyhow, once all the data is more or less locked down, and it really doesn't seem like there was much time for that in Shift 1.

Anyhow, from what they've said so far, pretty much all the key complaints I mentioned to them about Shift 1 are addressed:

I don't know that I have a feature list so much as a process list:

* No farming out of QA to the cheapest possible eastern european testers they can find

(promised "less bugs" and testing seems to involve a lot more people all through dev/qa)

* No involvement from Black Box in anything at all

(black box is dead, looks like they hired someone to prototype/design the UI in flash in house)

* A general commitment to drop features if they can't be done properly. I would rather they picked either a livery editor, or a replay feature, and dropped the one they didn't have time for, than do a half arsed version of both where neither is any good.

(seem to have dropped some significant things (online drift, etc) and improved both replay/photo mode and the livery editor substantially)

* Same for cars. No more generic double A arms, differentials, TCS, etc. Can't do the car right? Don't bother. Stop trying to compete in a losing race with Forza and GT on quantity and go for quality.

(no more generic suspensions and involved drivers of the real exact specific cars whenever available)

So, you know, pretty much everything I've found that kind of sucked, from modding the first game, looks like they went out of their way specifically to look at it. I will be interested to see if I was right about what sucked in the first game when the sequel ships :)
 
Last edited:
I think that's what I like most about Shift. It's (sort of) an open book. With GT5 we have this whole rumour mill of physics and backend stuff that's more or less unconfirmable. With Shift, someone somewhere will have a pretty solid idea on how it works, and subsequently of how it was probably put together in this particular case.

There's a lot of clever modders like Boxox out there, and it's pretty hard to slip stuff past them. If SMS bodge stuff together again in Shift 2, it's going to come out. If they do something well, it's going to be praised appropriately.

It's the same reason I like that they'll have proper telemetry. If the game is doing something wrong, you're going to be able to see it if you know what you're looking for.
 


these are the events of the career

I don't know if the number mean the single races or a racing series with more event, if not there are only 66 races.. I mean for ex fia gt1 says 0/4, is it only 4 races or 4 racing events with more races in them?


Propably like the first one where it is events.
 
I`m really thinking about buying PC version beacuse of the mods that will come out and eventually make this game really great:)
By the way- great read boxox and thanks for your work.
 
driving with a wheel in elite mode - all assists off:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M5dfglDDNE

is there a little bit of delay from when he steers the wheel to when the car starts turning?
To me that's the look of steering dead zone. A bit scary, that. I hope it's just a wrong impression from the video, or that they have an option to adjust it.

So far we've seen many videos, including ones of setup screens, but there's very little info on what is one of the most important aspects of any driving game, namely the actual steering and FFB feel and setup (not talking about pad controllers here...). If anybody has any details about this, please share it.

DJ
--
 
Looks like we have to thanks boxox for beeing a pain in someone's behind regarding Shift 2 development... :D

No no, this was before they officially confirmed there was a sequel but well into development of it - it's not like I told them to do this stuff :). But overall I am impressed with how much overlap there is between what I wanted to happen and what they're mentioning in previews :)
 
Still no sight of menus with wheel options... Seems the so called "game industry specialists" have been slacking on the job OR just don't read comments on their respective websites..
 
boxox I undestand. I mentioned it because Andy Tutor said they looked (also) at what modders did and even included one mod in the game.

Obviously they paid attention to what the community (gamers and modders) said about the game on every aspect.

Since you're the modder "on call" around i "blame" you :D
 
Still no sight of menus with wheel options... Seems the so called "game industry specialists" have been slacking on the job OR just don't read comments on their respective websites..

^One of the stupidest posts i've ever read 👎

Just because noone has put up YouTube footage of the wheel setting menus doesn't mean that the developers have been slacking or not paying attention to community feedback.

There were wheel options in Shift 1, there will be wheel options in Shift 2.
 
Not having Shift 1, I'm not familiar with the range of options, so after some searching I found this:

shift2009121608074237la.jpg


I assume that they're not taking any of that away in Shift 2, in which case we're good w.r.t. deadzones 👍

Edit: I think the above screenshot may be from the PC version, but hopefully the options are the same for consoles and PC - can anyone confirm that?

Now I just need to find out about the "Mirror Mounting Rigidity" option :lol:

DJ
--
 
Last edited:
Not having Shift 1, I'm not familiar with the range of options, so after some searching I found this:

shift2009121608074237la.jpg


I assume that they're not taking any of that away in Shift 2, in which case we're good w.r.t. deadzones 👍

Edit: I think the above screenshot may be from the PC version, but hopefully the options are the same for consoles and PC - can anyone confirm that?

Now I just need to find out about the "Mirror Mounting Rigidity" option :lol:

DJ
--

Yes the options are the same in the PS3. quite a lot of options. but instead of turning lock I think I had wheel rotation or something - from 180 to 900
 
Yes the options are the same in the PS3. quite a lot of options. but instead of turning lock I think I had wheel rotation or something - from 180 to 900

right but this was crap...
set to 900° it was undriveable... i hope so much that they fixed that..
if not it would be an ko criterium
 
^One of the stupidest posts i've ever read 👎

Just because noone has put up YouTube footage of the wheel setting menus doesn't mean that the developers have been slacking or not paying attention to community feedback.

There were wheel options in Shift 1, there will be wheel options in Shift 2.

I'll clarify on this. I wasn't referring to the developers. I was commenting on the guys playing the game before hand.

I'll try to work on my english.
 
It looks a little floady, but the sliding has finally gone. :)

Floaty. Its the camera in which is just a tad higher than GT or something other than what your use to seeing. Didn't really bother me though. It also could have been the suspension setup used. From watching that one Vette video of Tommy, the height seem just right. http://www.needforspeed.com/shift2unleashed

I can't wait til this game comes out. There is too much negative talk about this game in which is being judged from videos that don't go into detail about setups and based on the original version of the game. Let the game speak for itself on release day. If you don't buy on release day, wait til you hear some more actual facts about the game. We are all speculating here so give the game a fair chance. GT is not the only title that can attempt to have success nowadays.
 
Last edited:
Is it just me, or are quite a few Youtube shots now in that abominable 'invisible car cam' from GT5? How anyone would want to race that, when a 'proper' hood cam (you know, a hood cam that shows the hood!) is available beats me.

Invisible car cam still bugs the heck out of me, when it is impossible to judge apexes as well as when you can SEE your car's corners... For me, at least, Shift's hood cam was the perfect 'immersive' view, not restricting your FOV as radically as cockpit cam, but not losing the car entirely like invisible car cam (track cam?) does.
 
There are 3 new preview articles on gamerzines.com. I'm not sure if anyone has posted them before. They write "And in case you’re wondering; yes, the handling’s been much improved since the original Need For Speed: Shift." which sounds promising.

http://www.gamerzines.com/need-for-speed/preview/preview-career-shift-shift-2-unleasheds-career-mode/
http://www.gamerzines.com/need-for-speed/preview/preview-shift-2-unleasheds-handling-options/
http://www.gamerzines.com/need-for-speed/preview/preview-evolution-autolog-autolog-shift-2-unleashed/
 
Back