North Korea, Sanctions, and Kim Jong-un

http://www.businessinsider.com/map-...-could-destroy-seoul-in-two-hours-2010-5?op=1

The 800 pound gorilla in the room is the North's artillery bearing down on Seoul.

Seoul is only 35 miles from the border, and has a population of 10.5 million (about 25% of the entire population of South Korea.

It is feared that Seoul could be destroyed in under than 2 hours by the North's very well dug in long range artillery.

Helluva way to start a war - lose your capitol city and 10 million people in the first two hours. Sure, the US would "win" in the end (just like it, uh, always does). But you can bet your bottom dollar the South Koreans care about more than the US winning in the end. It's not easy, this business of war and bloody, burning death.

Respectfully,
Steve


I read a while back about South Korea's tactics in the case of a ground invasion. Its to try and hold the border for 7minutes (the ex South Korean soldier writing the article said that realistically that even that was a long shot) and that is how long it will take to scramble bombers and fighters to the border. South Korea knows that they will be outnumbered on the ground however have almost complete air superiority.
 
http://nautilus.org/publications/bo...fing-book-harts-in-north-korea/#axzz2OryI9rU4

A coast-to-coast network of tunnels and caves set deep into granite mountain ridges, and elaborate earth covered bunkers provide hardened artillery sites (HARTS) within range of Seoul.

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m1989.htm
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m1978_koksan.htm

Meet the Koksan, a 170mm self-propelled artillery tube of immense length, range 40-60 km.
This ugly thing can fire without leaving its protective cave, tunnel or bunker. If they get serious, they will load it with poison gas shells, a potential death sentence for millions of civilians. What to do, make their day or yield?

Respectfully submitted,
Steve
 
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Meet the Koksan, a 170mm self-propelled artillery tube of immense length, range 40-60 km.
But how accurately can these guns fire, and are they targeted systems or point and hope you hit something guns?
 
The Koksan appears to have been designed specifically for the purposes of targeting Seoul from behind the Demilitarised Zone. It's mounted on the body of a tank, so it is highly mobile, and the North Koreans have had them for forty years. You can bet that they know exactly what they are aiming at; the reinforced bunkers they are deployed to were probably built specifically for the purposes of giving them as much protection whilst allowing them to fire from the optimal position.
 
But how accurately can these guns fire, and are they targeted systems or point and hope you hit something guns?

Unless NK has seriously stepped up their game recently, they are point-and-hopes. So people are worrying about the threat of, what is effectively, 1960s artillery firing upon Seoul... righhtt...

They'll need to be under a mind-blowing amount of reinforced concrete to withstand the kind of bunker-busting bombs that the U.S have (and those are only the ones we know about!)
 
That report made me twitch. Here's one done by somebody who knows what they're talking about.

http://www.iiss.org/publications/st...he-conventional-military-balance-on-the-kore/

Why does it make you twitch? From that article...

Conclusion
The combination of North Korea’s long economic decline and enhanced US and South Korean military capabilities has diminshed the threat of a North Korean invasion of South Korea.

Diminished threat sounds good to me. It is a complex situation but I don't think all the hype over the latest 'in the news' is worth a whole hell of a lot.
 
Unless NK has seriously stepped up their game recently, they are point-and-hopes. So people are worrying about the threat of, what is effectively, 1960s artillery firing upon Seoul... righhtt...
The location of Seoul hasn't moved in 2031 years. And with a population of ten million, it's one of the largest cities in the world and covers six hundred square kilometres. It's not going to be difficult hit - North Korea are hardly trying to throw a dart though a key hole from across the room. All they have to do is point their artillery in the general direction, fire, and they're almost certainly going to hit something. Having such strong firepower pointed at the capital has been the mainstay of their military strategy for over half a century. It's their one bargaining chip when it comes to negotiations.

They'll need to be under a mind-blowing amount of reinforced concrete to withstand the kind of bunker-busting bombs that the U.S have (and those are only the ones we know about!)
Which they probably have. North Korea have the world's fourth-largest armed forces. And while the Koksan artillery gun might have been deployed forty years ago, North Korea still have thousands of them concealed along the DMZ. And they probably have dozens of empty bunkers that they could move the gun to so that if a war did start, they could move their artillery around and continue firing on Seoul for as long as possible.

You might think that it's a bizarre idea for the North to be able to fire forty year-old artillery guns at Seoul and hit the city in the face of the firepower (and expenditure on firepower) that the United States and South Korea wield. But if, in the event one of thsoe Koksan guns was fired, do you have any idea how long it would take for a shell to travel from the North to Seoul? About two minutes - and that's being generous. By the time American and South Korean forces could deploy and target the artillery positions, the North would have done some serious damage to the city. And if they were smart, they'd cycle through their firing positions, moving the inactive artillery batteries around to keep the American and South Korean forces even more time.

Why else do you think the North's antics have been tolerated until now? It's because they've pretty much held Seoul hostage for the past sixty years.

Diminished threat sounds good to me. It is a complex situation but I don't think all the hype over the latest 'in the news' is worth a whole hell of a lot.
There's just one small problem with that analysis:
The combination of North Korea’s long economic decline and enhanced US and South Korean military capabilities has diminshed the threat of a North Korean invasion of South Korea.
It's assuming that the North wants to reunify the Korean peninsula by force, but the rhetoric coming out of the North over the past few weeks suggests that this is not their goal. This is what Kim Jong-un reportedly said when he signed off on orders putting their rockets at full readiness:
"The time has come to settle accounts with the US imperialists in view of the prevailing situation."
Does that sound like the kind of thing someone looking to invade a nearby country would say? I don't think so. Kim seems to be spoiling for a fight, and he couldn't care less about the South. He wants to target America; if he wants the South, then he probably thinks that if he can thwart the Americans, then the South will be his for the taking.
 
Hmmn agreed, the only reason for them to do what they are doing if not actually for war is just to get world wide publicity and recognition and feel smug that people are worried because of them.

They are just acting like the "bully on the block". Their technology is outdated and any "so called" new technology of theirs has not been not been satisfactorily proven. Long range missiles .... yeah, ok, good luck with them, if they so must "attempt" them.

Helluva way to start a war - lose your capital city and 10 million casualties in the first two hours. Sure, the US would "win" in the end (just like it, uh, always does).

Lest you forget Vietnam ? We (The U.S.) did not win that war (from the objective standpoint). At best (non-objective standpoint), Nam was a stalemate war for the U.S.

North Korean strategic rocket forces are reportedly at full readiness so that they may fire at any time:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-29/north-korea-prepares-rockets-for-us-strike-report-says/4601258

Show of "wanna be" power (flexing muscle they don't have). So the U.S. retaliates and flexes Air Muscle today .... muscle that is proven.

But how accurately can these guns fire, and are they targeted systems or point and hope you hit something guns?

Agreeing with Marina .....

Unless NK has seriously stepped up their game recently, they are point-and-hopes. So people are worrying about the threat of, what is effectively, 1960s artillery firing upon Seoul... righhtt...
 
I see, well as an American I am not worried about that, not at all.
Are you being sarcastic?

Sure, Kim will likely be flattened if he tries anything. But he has specifically - not to mention repeatedly - named the United States as an enemy of the North. Since he apparently isn't too concerned about marching on the South and trying to take it by force, doesn't it bother you even a little bit that he is at least going to target American interests, if not Americans themselves?

Show of "wanna be" power (flexing muscle they don't have). So the U.S. retaliates and flexes Air Muscle today .... muscle that is proven.
Then why is the US taking it so seriously?

You're assuming that the North won't do anything because they think the way you do. But they have proven on dozens of occasions that they don't. After all, Kim Jong-un is the man who launched an artillery attack on a South Korean island to prove he was a worthy successor to his father in the eyes of his people, even though he didn't have to because he controls the media and can just tell them to think whatever he wants them to think.

Everything that the North has done in the past few weeks has steadily escalated the situation. Don't you understand that? The North's rocket forces are now in a state where they are ready to fire on any target Kim chooses the moment he says "Fire!". If North Korea really did understand the gravity of the situation the way you seem to think they do or should do, they would have stood down a long time ago, having proved their point. But right now, we're seeing some of the most aggressive rhetoric and provocative actions that we have seen from them in years, if not decades.
 
Are you being sarcastic?

Sure, Kim will likely be flattened if he tries anything. But he has specifically - not to mention repeatedly - named the United States as an enemy of the North. Since he apparently isn't too concerned about marching on the South and trying to take it by force, doesn't it bother you even a little bit that he is at least going to target American interests, if not Americans themselves?

Nope, not being sarcastic.

They have been trying to target American interests for 50 years, so? They get weaker every year, and the developed world is getting sick of them.

If they try an actual nuclear strike on Americans we will not behave the goody shoe way we have in wars past, we will have backing and they will be done. They know this btw.

This is a big media stir that boils down to jack squat.
 
It's their one bargaining chip when it comes to negotiations.

Yup, so they'll get an hour or so of firing 2-3 roughly-placed shells per minute, and then their invasion attempt will be over and the remainder of their army will be ripped to shreds. That sounds pretty pathetic from a country threatening the U.S.A with a nuclear strike.

I know everybody will make a fuss over how many civillians could potentially be killed, but that's the nature of war. If NK start bombarding Seoul, a lot of people will die, but if NK's artillery was more advanced a lot more people would be killed. If they're going to do it there's not much anyone can do to prevent it, but it certainly won't last for very long.

Which they probably have. North Korea have the world's fourth-largest armed forces. And while the Koksan artillery gun might have been deployed forty years ago, North Korea still have thousands of them concealed along the DMZ. And they probably have dozens of empty bunkers that they could move the gun to so that if a war did start, they could move their artillery around and continue firing on Seoul for as long as possible.

Considering 20 feet of hardened concrete can be cracked open by the latest U.S bombs (and, again, that's just the ones we know about), I doubt it. Size counts for nothing when you are so poorly trained and equipped - just more fodder for the cannons. With modern technology it's pretty easy to locate such old-fashioned artillery, the firing signature is a dead giveaway. Moving them around would be handing them to jet pilots on a plate. If the South and the U.S.A have air superiority (which they will almost instantly) those artillery pieces will be done within a few hours.

Why else do you think the North's antics have been tolerated until now? It's because they've pretty much held Seoul hostage for the past sixty years.

Probably because a small yapping dog is irritating but not deserving of any special attention. The longer NK leave their invasion, the further they fall behind the rest of the world, and so their chances of achieving anything of any significance turn to dust.

He wants to target America; if he wants the South, then he probably thinks that if he can thwart the Americans, then the South will be his for the taking.

He can't even mount a nuclear device to a BM, let alone develop a ICBM and mount one to that. Dreamers will dream, I guess.
 
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doesn't it bother you even a little bit that he is at least going to target American interests, if not Americans themselves?
I suspect many Americans don't even know that we have any interests in South Korea or well, anywhere else. *sigh*

I of course think the guy is mostly blowing smoke out, but I find it concerning anyway. Why anyone wouldn't take such things seriously I don't know.
But then I have a great pity for the North Korean average citizens, and an admiration for the South Korean people. I know I'm probably not typical as an American in this.
 
It's not that I don't take the situation seriously, it's that I don't take his threat seriously, because it's not.

Seeing many many civilians killed is not something anyone just brushes off but rest assured the U.S. would not puss foot around like we do in all these other so called conflicts. If he goes nuke, we will light it up.

And no, it will not start wwIII and it would not signify the end of the world.
 
Yup, so they'll get an hour or so of firing 2-3 roughly-placed shells per minute, and then their invasion attempt will be over and the remainder of their army will be ripped to shreds. That sounds pretty pathetic from a country threatening the U.S.A with a nuclear strike.

I know everybody will make a fuss over how many civillians could potentially be killed, but that's the nature of war. If NK start bombarding Seoul, a lot of people will die, but if NK's artillery was more advanced a lot more people would be killed. If they're going to do it there's not much anyone can do to prevent it, but it certainly won't last for very long.
Hey, as long as the people who die aren't your citizens, it's okay.

Considering 20 feet of hardened concrete can be cracked open by the latest U.S bombs (and, again, that's just the ones we know about), I doubt it. Size counts for nothing when you are so poorly trained and equipped - just more fodder for the cannons. With modern technology it's pretty easy to locate such old-fashioned artillery, the firing signature is a dead giveaway. Moving them around would be handing them to jet pilots on a plate. If the South and the U.S.A have air superiority (which they will almost instantly) those artillery pieces will be done within a few hours.
And a few hours is all the North would need to devastate the South.

Why are you assuming that the North's soldiers are poorly trained and equipped? Becaue they're still using weapons that were designed sixty years ago? It might be a problem if they were using weapons that were built sixty years ago, but they're not.

Probably because a small yapping dog is irritating but not deserving of any special attention. The longer NK leave their invasion, the further they fall behind the rest of the world, and so their chances of achieving anything of any significance turn to dust.
I am so glad you are not the one making policy decisions. North Korea might be a "small, yapping dog", but even the smallest of dogs can draw blood if they get a good enough grip. And assuming it won't happen will simply leave you vulnerable to it.

He can't even mount a nuclear device to a BM, let alone develop a ICBM and mount one to that. Dreamers will dream, I guess.
Why do you assume a nuclear device would be the only part of Kim's plan?

Once again, we're at the point where someone completely fails to comprehend the idea that Kim does not think the way you do. Kim wouldn't be making these noises if he wasn't confident that he could drive America out. He doesn't want to obliterate them, only hurt them enough that he forces them to take him seriously for fear of inciting another, equally-devastating wave of attacks.

They have been trying to target American interests for 50 years, so? They get weaker every year, and the developed world is getting sick of them.
So sick of them, in fact, that the developed world is treating this as one of the most serious situations on the peninsula in years, if not decades.

This is a big media stir that boils down to jack squat.
Oh, yes. It's clearly such a slow news day that the media have nothing better to do than to try and get everyone riled up by a potential war.

But hey, the North can't target the American mainland with nuclear devices. So even though they have artillery shells pointed at one of the largest cities in the world, and the ability to shell it with chemical weapons, there's nothing worth getting worked up over.
 
Are you being sarcastic?

Sure, Kim will likely be flattened if he tries anything.

Likely be wiped out ? No, he will be, no questions asked. It would be our 2nd round over there, this time it would be a lot more devastating.
As the saying goes : don't 🤬 with a Falcon if you can't fly.

It's called the media, they dwell on this kind of stuff. The kind of stuff that gets the general public all worked up. In your honest opinion, do you really feel that the U.S. is deeply concerned over this pee-on ? One good strike and it's game over. The U.S is playing mind games with this guy right now .... hence the B-2's action today. IF anything would transpire out of this, it would be a local attack by Jong, nothing full blown, and he (Jong) knows it, he can't afford to pursue an all out attack.

Everything that the North has done in the past few weeks has steadily escalated the situation. Don't you understand that?

What is there to understand ? We are seeing a bunch of propaganda from a man who is shaking in his boots, especially after seeing those Blackbirds in the sky today. Let him flex his muscle on S.K. (that's all the farther he can reach ... :lol:), then we will see who the bully on the block is. Again, it's just a muscle twitch from Jong.

But right now, we're seeing some of the most aggressive rhetoric and provocative actions that we have seen from them in years, if not decades.

Once again, flexing muscle that he does not have.
 
When you call something a very big deal early on it becomes much easier to justify your actions.

I'll tell you, I was born in the middle of the cold war and in elementary school we used to hide under our desks and practice basement drills where we where taught how to eat out of a can.

Keep on with your out of control nonsense, this is not a very big deal at all. Extremely likely that he will calm down, or China will step in, or, or, any number of things. Word war not being one of them.
 
Keep on with your out of control nonsense, this is not a very big deal at all.
What's your proof of that? The way you were taught to hide under your desks in the event of nuclear war, but never actually had to do it?

If you honestly think that Kim is the same as Mikhail Gorbachev - or whoever was leading the USSR at the time you were in school - please stop posting. You're only going to embarrass yourself further.

Extremely likely that he will calm down
Except that he hasn't yet, and we don't really know enough about Kim to know what will prompt him to back down.

or China will step in
Except that they haven't, and in supporting the UN's sanctions, have sent a clear message that they've had enough to trying to coax the North into behaving themselves.

Word war not being one of them.
I never said it would be one. I only said that you're completely underestimating the North because you think it's the media riling everyone up.
 
What's your proof of that? The way you were taught to hide under your desks in the event of nuclear war, but never actually had to do it?

If you honestly think that Kim is the same as Mikhail Gorbachev - or whoever was leading the USSR at the time you were in school - please stop posting. You're only going to embarrass yourself further.

Exactly, Thanks for making my point all the clearer. It is you who doesn't know jack crap about what is going on 👍

The rest of your dribble is not worthy a response. Grow up and quit wishing something very bad will happen in order to vindicate you silly knee jerking.
 
Why do you assume a nuclear device would be the only part of Kim's plan?

Once again, we're at the point where someone completely fails to comprehend the idea that Kim does not think the way you do. Kim wouldn't be making these noises if he wasn't confident that he could drive America out. He doesn't want to obliterate them, only hurt them enough that he forces them to take him seriously for fear of inciting another, equally-devastating wave of attacks.
His father did the exact same BS during his reign, though. And we all know what his end result was. The only reason his son is any more of threat is b/c he's actually been somewhat more successful in his tests.

But, despite those successes, he still has a long way to go before he's in any position to actually carry out his threats without being completely wiped out afterwards. And while he very well may have some advanced weapons that are finally capable of hitting something unlike his father, the one thing his father did have was the ability to rely on China.

If he makes any sort of attack, I'm sure China won't hesitate to make a move of their own now that it's known they will no longer be trying to play peacemaker & babysitter for the North.
 
Exactly, Thanks for making my point all the clearer.
What point?

It is you who doesn't know jack crap about what is going on 👍
I don't know what's going on in your posts.

You've been claiming that there is absolutely nothing to be worried about, no cause for concern, and that the entire situation on the Korean peninsula is largely down to the media blowing things out of proportion. However, you haven't offered a single point of evidence in favour of this, and when I point that out, you claim that I've only made your case stronger.

Seriously, why do you believe that there is no cause for concern? The only thing you have said that might be considered evidence of your belief is the following:
I'll tell you, I was born in the middle of the cold war and in elementary school we used to hide under our desks and practice basement drills where we where taught how to eat out of a can.
And I have to wonder: what the hell does this have to do with anything in this thread? You're referring to events that happened in another country thirty years ago for entirely different reasons as if they are proof that what is happening today is no cause for concern. How is this even a little bit relevant to what Kim is doing?

His father did the exact same BS during his reign, though. And we all know what his end result was. The only reason his son is any more of threat is b/c he's actually been somewhat more successful in his tests.

But, despite those successes, he still has a long way to go before he's in any position to actually carry out his threats without being completely wiped out afterwards. And while he very well may have some advanced weapons that are finally capable of hitting something unlike his father, the one thing his father did have was the ability to rely on China.

If he makes any sort of attack, I'm sure China won't hesitate to make a move of their own now that it's known they will no longer be trying to play peacemaker & babysitter for the North.
I'm not saying that if Kim tries something, he will actually succeed the way he thinks he will. I never have said that, and never will.

I'm just saying that Kim doesn't think the way we do - which is a concept that a lot of people seem to have a hard time understanding to begin with - and so he clearly views the situation differently. It might be obvious to us that if he starts something, he'll be flattened in short order, but he won't see it that way. Perhaps he thinks that America is inflicting itself upon all nations the way it is inflicting itself upon South Korea, and that if he has the courage to attack, then every nation will rise up and throw off the shackles of oppression or whatever he believes to be the case.
 
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If the North actually intended to launch an large scale assault on the South, if I was one of Kim Jong Un's homeboys(not Dennis Rodman Chris!), I'd assassinate him. Why? Because it's a pure suicide.

I'd give monkey that NK's getting pretty loud, but I tend to agree with arora. Why would a General lead his army to a lose-lose-lose war with nothing in it for them? And why would his army follow the General?

North Korea's not all 60's military, but from what I've read, they mostly are outdated. Also, intel since we've been born(maybe except Dotini) has been that North Koreans are poorly trained(no money) & equipment are poorly maintained(no money), and if you know anything about military & equipment, training & maintenance is absolutely critical to the game.

If a war should break out, I expect it to be a suicide mission for Kim Jong Un. My guess, it'll be over in days. If the U.S. decides to hit them hard, North's capability to launch any offensive might be gone on that day.
 
Hey, as long as the people who die aren't your citizens, it's okay.

Yup, that's exactly what I said there. You got me *holds up hands*.

And a few hours is all the North would need to devastate the South.

Yup, a few hours of outdated, short-ranged artillery fire will wipe South Korea from the map. That's what you said there, right?

Why are you assuming that the North's soldiers are poorly trained and equipped? Becaue they're still using weapons that were designed sixty years ago? It might be a problem if they were using weapons that were built sixty years ago, but they're not.

Because they are? They follow Soviet-style doctrine for crying out loud! The AKM, RPK, DShK and the vast majority of their other weapons are ridiculously outdated, no matter how recently they were manufactured. Half of their weaponary is from the 1960's, the other half is from even earlier. It doesn't take a genius to work out that equipment that old won't stand a change against the stuff that the South and the U.S have.


I am so glad you are not the one making policy decisions. North Korea might be a "small, yapping dog", but even the smallest of dogs can draw blood if they get a good enough grip.

So what is your suggestion? If NK attacks there will be casualties either way, there is no way to avoid that fact.

And assuming it won't happen will simply leave you vulnerable to it.

Yes, because in my last post I clearly remember pretending that nothing like this would ever happen. Again, casualties would be unavoidable, and since you kicked up a fuss about me being real about that fact, please tell me how you would avoid that problem.


Why do you assume a nuclear device would be the only part of Kim's plan?

How else is he going to hurt the U.S enough to send them packing? I highly doubt the death of U.S servicemen in South Korea would see the U.S backing off, if anything it would have the opposite effect.

Once again, we're at the point where someone completely fails to comprehend the idea that Kim does not think the way you do.

I am so glad that we have North Korea's leading military strategist and good friend of Kim here to tell us how things really are. I'm well aware that Kimmy boy doesn't think the way I do, because I wouldn't be stupid enough to threaten the most powerful nation in the world with a capability that I don't have.

Kim wouldn't be making these noises if he wasn't confident that he could drive America out. He doesn't want to obliterate them, only hurt them enough that he forces them to take him seriously for fear of inciting another, equally-devastating wave of attacks.

Since he isn't capable of any of this, I guess there's nothing much to worry about. *Waits for "Oh, please, won't someobdy think of the South Korean children!"*
 
Care to wager?

It's hard to believe how you think tbh. Anyway, there is no threat to the U.S. and the threat to SK becomes less every year.

And sense you like to make fun of my up bringing as a child I'll just add that my god father is a decorated veteran from the Korean war, he told me how it was and that is a major reason that I have followed all the goings on there for the past 30 years.
 
Why would a General lead his army to a lose-lose-lose war with nothing in it for them? And why would his army follow the General?
What makes you think they know it would be a war that they will inevitably lose? We know it would be a war that they will inevitably lose, but does the North? Or do they genuinely think that they could (or worse, will) win that war?

Because if they do think that, what is stopping them from starting said war?

And sense you like to make fun of my up bringing as a child
Are you even reading my posts?

I'm not making fun of you. I'm just wondering why you bring up going through nuclear strike drills while you were in school, as if it has anything to do with the subject. Please, explain that to me.
 
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North Koreans may be silly & misled, but they're not 🤬 stupid. They know full well they'll walk into a suicide mission if they attack. If they genuinely thought they could win, they would have done it long ago under Kim's father.
 
we don't really know enough about Kim to know what will prompt him to back down.

The sight of B-2's would not make him think twice ?
The threat of China ... telling him to back off would not make him think twice ?

He's dealing against two of the strongest forces in the world at this present time. I would say that this should make him think. Oh, evidently he did not get this memo that you have stated ...

and in supporting the UN's sanctions, have sent a clear message that they've had enough to trying to coax the North into behaving themselves.

His father did the exact same BS during his reign, though. And we all know what his end result was. The only reason his son is any more of threat is b/c he's actually been somewhat more successful in his tests.

But, despite those successes, he still has a long way to go before he's in any position to actually carry out his threats without being completely wiped out afterwards. And while he very well may have some advanced weapons that are finally capable of hitting something unlike his father, the one thing his father did have was the ability to rely on China.

If he makes any sort of attack, I'm sure China won't hesitate to make a move of their own now that it's known they will no longer be trying to play peacemaker & babysitter for the North.

Bingo 👍
 
So what is your suggestion? If NK attacks there will be casualties either way, there is no way to avoid that fact.
I was wondering about that, too. Whatever happens, it's North Korea (re)starting the war, can't really hold you responsible. :lol:
What makes you think they know it would be a war that they will inevitably lose? We know it would be a war that they will inevitably lose, but does the North? Or do they genuinely think that they could (or worse, will) win that war?

Because if they do think that, what is stopping them from starting said war?
What if they believed that Darth Vader is real, and thought that Dennis Rodman was Jar Jar Binks? What are you talking about man? :confused: A borderline-retarded leader would realize that South Korean military would absolutely destroy North on its own. Without the backing from the Chinese & the U.S. backing South Korea without a doubt, North has zero chance. Not maybe 1%, zero.
 

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