North Korea, Sanctions, and Kim Jong-un

[Joel]

OK, I'd go along if the ten guys were Green Beret & the knife belong to Dennis Rodman(i.e. very large & flashy target).

Let's go with $2.5B in military spending to a "the most powerful military in human history" fight 👍

 

[Dotini]

This morning's USA Today prints an excellent article with interactive graphics showing North Korea's missile types, ranges and inventories. More importantly, it tips us off to the most hopeful and likely outcome of the current fuss and bluster.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/03/29/north-korea-rocket/2030319/
Kim's warning, and the litany of threats that have preceded it, don't indicate an imminent war. In fact, they're most likely meant to coerce South Korea into softening its policies, win direct talks and aid from Washington, and strengthen the young leader's credentials and image at home.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[dhandeh]

This thread has escalated more than the actual Korean situation.

 

[Dennisch]

Well, maybe it's time that NK does something stupid, so that the US, SK and possibly China can end this reign of stupidity once and for all.

 

[Exorcet]

North Korea does have a good supply of "stuff". Don't underestimate your enemies. Civies wouldn't understand, of course.

North Korea's good stuff is basically the same good stuff it had in 1953. The absolute best they have in terms of airforce is a handful of 1980's fighters, the same kind that US 1990's fighters obliterated in the Gulf War. The US has 2010 fighters now. Almost literally, one F-15 could destroy 8 basic MiG-29's.

NK's air defense would also be useless vs B-2's and F-22's. They wouldn't even be able to down F-117's if the US still had them.

 

[Dotini]

There's a reason why the Korean war is still not technically over. Don't underestimate those northerners, especially when they're a brainwashed military state.

North Korea does have a good supply of "stuff". Don't underestimate your enemies. Civies wouldn't understand, of course.

I will not give up this fight! I don't support NK, I'm just saying don't underestimate.

In a fight where both sides have a say in the outcome, it's never wise to underestimate your enemies. These are words to the wise.

Fortunately, it's still a war of words, and not a war of blood and steel. But who is winning?

North Korea is a nuclear power, and has a serious inventory of short and medium range missiles, enough to blanket all the South and most of Japan. Now they are testing long range missiles and possibly reduced size nuclear warheads. Nobody has been able to do anything about this, so clearly North Korea is winning in at least these respects.

Recently strengthened sanctions, wargames and overt acts of intimidation such as the B-2 flights seem to do nothing but embolden them.

The US has recently allowed ambassadors, CEOs and even a basketball star to treat with them. Clearly Kim wants relations with the US and to enjoy economic benefits, global trade and investment. His current tactics are designed to get him that, or, less likely, they are going to get him a war of blood and steel.

Personally, I can see how a lot of folks would like to oblige him with a shooting war. But I don't think it will happen due to the reluctance of the South to endure the great bulk of the real and immediate risk.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[1241Penguin]

Photo from Kim Jong Un’s war room reveals North Korea’s ‘U.S. mainland strike plan’

Kinda interesting. At least they're planning something far from Canada than I thought.

 

[arora]

What a joke.

Good you are thinking of yourself though in such a scary time

 

[1241Penguin]

Hey, it's not like there's no people living close to the Canada-US border. Not saying Americans aren't important.

 

[arora]

I was joking lol.

That news story is just plain silly though, gimme a brake with that.

 

[lbsf1]

Photo from Kim Jong Un’s war room reveals North Korea’s ‘U.S. mainland strike plan’

Kinda interesting. At least they're planning something far from Canada than I thought.

Well, that 100% proves to me that they have no intention of an actual attack. If you were going to attack someone the last thing you would do is publish pictures that include your attack plan on the internet.

 

[DK]

I'm surprised South Park hasn't taken the piss out of NK yet.

 

[Dennisch]

 

[Eks]

I don't know why, but in the last pic, I imagined him saying "da f:censored:k, bruh?"

 

[Motorcycle54]

The threats from, and response to, N Korea, exist on many levels simultaneously (what if it were an Iranian leader making the same threats 5-10yrs from now? North Korea can be seen as a generalized dress rehearsal for the potential mess a nuclear Iran could be.) Obviously there is no media self-critique happening in N Korea, so its 28yr old leader can shoot his mouth off all he wants. On one level its just bad/sad political theater.

On another level the *actual* reality that is the N Korean leader is very distressing, all by itself. South Koreans have good reason for worry, in as much as they value peace and brotherhood above all else. In as much as I personally value peace and brotherhood I am quite worried too. At the same time (simultaneously) the realities of war are fairly well known, and N Korea is not a nation of suicide bombers in waiting. They are a conventional target for a retaliatory attack. To appease N Korea is not in anyones interest.. so we wait. It could get very ugly. If not now then later. I dont see the young N Korean leader embracing peace and solitary self-reflection any time soon.

 

[gtone339]

Is it true that North Korea has declared 'State of War' against South Korea & U.S.A??

Just watched the news recently....👎

 

[prisonermonkeys]

This is going to end well:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-30/north-korea-enters-state-of-a-war-with-south/4601962

 

[Motorcycle54]

In chemistry, the most reactive elements form the most stable compounds- on account that the same intense energy released when they react, is required again to be present to disturb the resultant compound. We are here to witness the extreme reactivity of N Koreas leader to S Korea/USA, and it will result at some point in a more stable compound. Thats what our own Civil War in the US served to do, and thats what will happen here too. How many thousands will die, if any, is the main unknown at this point.

 

[arora]

This is going to end well:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-30/north-korea-enters-state-of-a-war-with-south/4601962

what, that they declared war? From the article you posted.

The two Koreas have always technically remained at war because the 1950-53 Korean War concluded with an armistice rather than a peace treaty.

So there is a difference?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Yes, there is a difference.

As the article points out, they have technically been at war for sixty years. But because of the armistice agreement, they haven't actually fought each other since it was signed. North Korea have since torn that agreement up.

What I understand from that article is that the North Koreans are behaving as if they are now fully anticipating war to break out, and every decision that they are making is being made on the assumption that a war is imminent. Where Kim moved his artillery encampments to a state of maximum readiness yesterday, he is now moving the entire army to maximum readiness, so that they can move the moment they receive orders.

It's not a declaration of war, but the North Korean forces are mobilising so taht they can respond immediately if such a declaration is made.

 

[Joey D]

Photo from Kim Jong Un’s war room reveals North Korea’s ‘U.S. mainland strike plan’

Kinda interesting. At least they're planning something far from Canada than I thought.

Their maps looks like they're just blown up pictures from Google Maps. I find that amusing. I just went back and saw the newspaper superimposed those images, oops

I don't think we have to worry about North Korea attacking anywhere in the US or Guam. If they're going to strike they're going to throw all they got at South Korea. Even if their weapons are outdated and crap, they can easily hit anywhere in South Korea and hitting anywhere near Seoul would kill quite a few people.

Sure they'd lose the overall war, but they could do some serious damage to the South in a short amount of time before it was all said and done. I think that's probably way more of realistic outcome than thinking North Korea can hit Hawaii with some really old Soviet tech.

 

[Mercdriver]

If they do anything to SK, the US would just need to drop the H bomb and there game over...... china and Russia wouldn't necessarily be to eager to help out

 

[Joey D]

Even if North Korea used a nuclear weapon again South Korea, I highly doubt the US would step in with nuclear weapons of their own. That would make for a diplomatic nightmare.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

If they do anything to SK, the US would just need to drop the H bomb and there game over...... China and Russia wouldn't necessarily be to eager to help out

It's possible since Japan has a pretty powerful military,

 

[McLaren]

It's possible since Japan has a pretty powerful military,

Not really. It's one of the most technologically advanced armies in the world, but the JSDF is not internationally recognized as a standing army & has never been deployed overseas until recently for peacekeeping operations instead of frontline combat. The only thing Japan's military does is serve as a defensive force against other countries invading, hence why the only "combat" Japan regularly sees is against China & the dispute over the territorial islands.

 

[Peter.]

If the nuclear meltdown in Japan resulted in trace amounts of radiation on the west, dropping a nuke, or several, wont do the US too much good. It would render a lot of the land useless for thousands of years if they nuked it. Also as Joey said, diplomatic nightmare.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

 

[Emptyone]

They might have gone slightly beyond bluster this time

Linky

The moves of the U.S. imperialists to violate the sovereignty of the DPRK and encroach upon its supreme interests have entered an extremely grave phase. Under this situation, the dear respected Marshal Kim Jong Un, brilliant commander of Mt. Paektu, convened an urgent operation meeting on the performance of duty of the Strategic Rocket Force of the Korean People's Army for firepower strike and finally examined and ratified a plan for firepower strike.

The important decision made by him is the declaration of a do-or-die battle to provide an epochal occasion for putting an end to the history of the long-standing showdown with the U.S. and opening a new era.

The U.S. made B-2A stealth strategic bomber and other ultra-modern strategic strike means fly from the U.S. mainland to south Korea to stage a bombing drill targeting the DPRK. This is an unpardonable and heinous provocation and an open challenge.

By taking advantage of the U.S. reckless campaign for a nuclear war against the DPRK, the south Korean puppets vociferated about "preemptive attack" and "strong counteraction" and even "strike at the commanding forces", openly revealing the attempt to destroy monuments symbolic of the dignity of the DPRK's supreme leadership.

The prevailing grim situation more clearly proves that the Supreme Command of the KPA was just when it made the judgment and decision to decisively settle accounts with the U.S. imperialists and south Korean puppets by dint of the arms of Songun, because time when words could work has passed.

Now they are openly claiming that the B-2A stealth strategic bombers' drill of dropping nuclear bombs was "not to irritate the north" but "the defensive one". The U.S. also says the drill is "to defend the interests of its ally". However, it is nothing but a lame pretext to cover up its aggressive nature.

The era when the U.S. resorted to the policy of strength by brandishing nuclear weapons has gone.

It is the resolute answer of the DPRK and its steadfast stand to counter the nuclear blackmail of the U.S. imperialists with merciless nuclear attack and their war of aggression with just all-out war.

They should clearly know that in the era of Marshal Kim Jong Un, the greatest-ever commander, all things are different from what they used to be in the past.

Time has come to stage a do-or-die final battle.

The government, political parties and organizations of the DPRK solemnly declare as follows reflecting the final decision made by Kim Jong Un at the operation meeting of the KPA Supreme Command and the unanimous will of all service personnel and people of the DPRK who are waiting for a final order from him.

1.From this moment, the north-south relations will be put at the state of war and all the issues arousing between the north and the south will be dealt with according to the wartime regulations.

The state of neither peace nor war has ended on the Korean Peninsula.

Now that the revolutionary armed forces of the DPRK have entered into an actual military action, the inter-Korean relations have naturally entered the state of war. Accordingly, the DPRK will immediately punish any slightest provocation hurting its dignity and sovereignty with resolute and merciless physical actions without any prior notice.

2. If the U.S. and the south Korean puppet group perpetrate a military provocation for igniting a war against the DPRK in any area including the five islands in the West Sea of Korea or in the area along the Military Demarcation Line, it will not be limited to a local war, but develop into an all-out war, a nuclear war.

It is self-evident that any military conflict on the Korean Peninsula is bound to lead to an all-out war, a nuclear war now that even U.S. nuclear strategic bombers in its military bases in the Pacific including Hawaii and Guam and in its mainland are flying into the sky above south Korea to participate in the madcap DPRK-targeted nuclear war moves.

The first strike of the revolutionary armed forces of the DPRK will blow up the U.S. bases for aggression in its mainland and in the Pacific operational theatres including Hawaii and Guam and reduce not only its military bases in south Korea but the puppets' ruling institutions including Chongwadae and puppet army's bases to ashes at once, to say nothing of the aggressors and the provokers.

3. The DPRK will never miss the golden chance to win a final victory in a great war for national reunification.

This war will not be a three day-war but it will be a blitz war through which the KPA will occupy all areas of south Korea including Jeju Island at one strike, not giving the U.S. and the puppet warmongers time to come to their senses, and a three-dimensional war to be fought in the air, land and seas and on the front line and in the rear.

Holding in high esteem the peerlessly great men of Mt. Paektu, the Korean people will give vent to the pent-up grudge and realize their cherished desire and thus bring a bright day of national reunification and build the best power on this land without fail.

 

[Lizard]

China's role in this is crucial.

True they supported sanctions but I think they were stalling for time as they never cut the oil and gas pipeline to NK.

China has a huge modern army and a stealth aircraft almost ready for production.

 

[Dotini]

They might have gone slightly beyond bluster this time

Kim's words are wind. It's half psychological warfare and half domestic politics.
Outwardly, the peninsula is at peace. No bullets are flying anywhere.
There have been no unusual movements of North Korean troops.
Routine commerce between North and South is still proceeding as usual at this hour.

The North Korean Army is also an army of peasant farmers, in that they raise many of their own crops and livestock. April 15 is the beginning of their planting season, so if they are planning on both a war and on eating, they will have to finish the war before the 15th. It ain't gonna happen.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve