North Korea, Sanctions, and Kim Jong-un

[1241Penguin]

The DEFCON level has been changed to Defcon 3.

http://defconwarningsystem.com/

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Is that change up or down?

 

[Joel]

IIRC it was Defcon 4 a few weeks ago, so increase in readiness.

 

[hennessey86]

It's a bad situation in North Korea, something needs to be done and fast before that lunatic kills millions of people

 

[Scaff]

A Very Simplified History of North Korea

Up until WWII, Korea was a unified, independent nation state, many thousands of years old.

In WWII, Japan brutally invaded and took control over much of the nation of Korea.

At the end of WWII, the US took over the positions Japan controlled, and made no attempt to return Korea to the Koreans.

Naturally, Koreans rebelled against the US, and with the aid of Russia and China, almost but not quite drove the foreigners off the peninsula and into the sea. General MacArthur landed at Inchon and a bloody stalemate eventually ensued near the 38th parallel, where the DMZ is today. MacArthur wanted to nuke China in order to win, but President Truman fired him instead. Not much has changed since 1953.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

Steve

Sorry to say but quite a bit of that is incorrect, the US didn't take over Korea and refuse to hand it back at all.

The division of Korea into North Korea and South Korea stems from the 1945 Allied victory in World War II, ending the Empire of Japan's 35-year colonial rule of Korea. The United States and the Soviet Union agreed to temporarily occupy the country as a trusteeship with the zone of control demarcated along the 38th parallel. The purpose of this trusteeship was to establish a Korean provisional government which would become "free and independent in due course."[1]
Though elections were scheduled, the Soviet Union refused to cooperate with United Nations plans to hold general and free elections in the two Korean zones, and as a result, a Communist state was permanently established under Soviet auspices in the north and a pro-Western state was set up in the south.[2] The two superpowers backed different leaders and two states were effectively established, each of which claimed sovereignty over the whole Korean peninsula.
The Korean War, which lasted from 1950 to 1953, left the two Koreas separated by the Korean Demilitarized Zone through the Cold War and into the 2010s. The 2000s saw some improved relations between the two sides, overseen in the south by liberal governments, who were more amicable towards the north than previous governments had been.[3] These changes were largely reversed under conservative South Korean president Lee Myung-bak who opposed the north's continued development of nuclear weapons.

Source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea
Source - http://countrystudies.us/south-korea/8.htm

If anything what happened was much closer to what happened in Germany, with the country being split by the differing ideals of the US and Russian sides (Germany of course threw in the UK and France as well to make things fun).

 

[prisonermonkeys]

something needs to be done and fast before that lunatic kills millions of people

When you say "millions of people", I assume you're referring to North Koreans?

 

[Matthew77258]

Well...North Korea have threatened Japan that if they shoot down a NK missile, they will attack Tokyo.
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2013/04/12/0200000000AEN20130412009100315.HTML

 

[Famine]

Well...North Korea have threatened Japan that if they shoot down a NK missile, they will attack Tokyo.
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2013/04/12/0200000000AEN20130412009100315.HTML

Presumably with another missile they'll shoot down.

 

[VolkswagenX]

When you say "millions of people", I assume you're referring to North Koreans?

Yeah, like the +1.5 millions Iraqis that got killed when the west gave them freedom You see, we have to bomb the DPRK and kill as many people to give them freedom. Plus it's good for the MIC economy.

/sarcasm

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Presumably with another missile they'll shoot down.

"The Japanese? A trifle! It was simply a matter of out-smarting them. You see, the Japanese have a pre-set number of anti-missile missiles. Knowing this weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own missiles at them until they ran out. Then, in a tactical coup de grâce, I fired another missile at them, one that they couldn't intercept. Kif, show them the medal I gave myself."​

 

[Touring Mars]

Well...North Korea have threatened Japan that if they shoot down a NK missile, they will attack Tokyo.
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2013/04/12/0200000000AEN20130412009100315.HTML

OK, let me get this straight. North Korea will attack Japan if Japan shoots down any missile that North Korea fires at Japan??

And North Korea call this 'hostile posturing' by Japan??? It would be hilarious if it wasn't so mind-crushingly stupid.

 

[Blitz24]

OK, let me get this straight. North Korea will attack Japan if Japan shoots down any missile that North Korea fires at Japan??

And North Korea call this 'hostile posturing' by Japan??? It would be hilarious if it wasn't so mind-crushingly stupid.

Sounds like NK wants a freebie missile hit and won't let Japan do the same. Because, well, they want to win so they now sound like a 5 year old.

 

[Ranman20]

They better not hit Japan, that's my favorite Country that has epic history, next to Japan is China, because they had Dynasty Warriors in the past.

 

[Darren.]

Well...North Korea have threatened Japan that if they shoot down a NK missile, they will attack Tokyo.
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2013/04/12/0200000000AEN20130412009100315.HTML

North Korea probably doesn't have the guts to fire a missile because if they did, the US would wipe North Korea off the map. Besides, the UK and the US have more powerful nuclear missiles as well as a large supply.

 

[Blitz24]

North Korea probably doesn't have the guts to fire a missile because if they did, the US would wipe North Korea off the map. Besides, the UK and the US have more powerful nuclear missiles as well as a large supply.

I think guts shouldn't be confused with unintelligent. They certainly aren't thinking if they are even threatening other countries not to be hostile towards them if they are being hostile to begin with.

 

[VolkswagenX]

I really don't get all this anti North Korea talk... I'm not pro NK nor am I anti but the one sidedness of this all is disgusting! You guys really find it strange that NK gets all mad at the US for starving them to death ( sanctions are an act of war) and playing war games in their back yard (millitary exercises with SK).

Yes, lets bomb NK because bombing a nations always works out (Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq..). Lets bomb Iran to for reasons of them might doing something bad.

 

[Touring Mars]

I really don't get all this anti North Korea talk... I'm not pro NK nor am I anti but the one sidedness of this all is disgusting! You guys really find it strange that NK gets all mad at the US for starving them to death ( sanctions are an act of war) and playing war games in their back yard (millitary exercises with SK).

Sanctions against North Korea have been adopted unanimously by the UN security council.

 

[Encyclopedia]

I really don't get all this anti North Korea talk... I'm not pro NK nor am I anti but the one sidedness of this all is disgusting! You guys really find it strange that NK gets all mad at the US for starving them to death ( sanctions are an act of war) and playing war games in their back yard (millitary exercises with SK).

Yes, lets bomb NK because bombing a nations always works out (Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq..). Lets bomb Iran to for reasons of them might doing something bad.

You realize they're starving themselves right, and are not so much a country as they are a cult. All this Anit-NK talk is justified. It's a horrible dictatorship that's oppressing their people.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I really don't get all this anti North Korea talk... I'm not pro NK nor am I anti but the one sidedness of this all is disgusting! You guys really find it strange that NK gets all mad at the US for starving them to death ( sanctions are an act of war) and playing war games in their back yard (millitary exercises with SK).

Huh. Looks like that old saying about empty vessels really is true after all.

That sounds like the kind of Hollywood liberal elitism that's going to get everyone killed. Turn off In the Valley of Elah and educate yourself on the subject.

 

[Motorcycle54]

I'm not pro NK nor am I anti..

You feel the same way about the United States. Admit it.

 

[VolkswagenX]

Huh. Looks like that old saying about empty vessels really is true after all.

That sounds like the kind of Hollywood liberal elitism that's going to get everyone killed. Turn off In the Valley of Elah and educate yourself on the subject.

What should my ecucation be according to you? US good, everyone bad? How about leaving sovereign nations alone instead of bombing them? People are getting sick of this "world police" stuff. Stop killing people!

Sanctions against North Korea have been adopted unanimously by the UN security council.

Never denied that. I said that NK is pissed at US and the sanctions have a lot to do with it.

You realize they're starving themselves right, and are not so much a country as they are a cult. All this Anit-NK talk is justified. It's a horrible dictatorship that's oppressing their people.

No they are not and thinking that is just wrong. It's the horrible sanctions that starved the Nortk Korean people to that during the famine period. NK has learned from that now and are becoming more self reliant when it comes to producing foods.

Putting sanctions on a nation to force them into surrender is an act of war! Blaming NK for the deaths of thousands from starvation is unfair and just stupid.

And yes, I know it's a dictatorship and I hope that it will one day end so that Korea can be Korea again. But they don't need the west for them to decide how and on what terms that is going to happen.

 

[Zenith]

When you use the term "pissed" to describe North Korea's attitude to the US (blatantly missing what Touring Mars said), it gives the impression that you're a middle/high schooler who really has no understanding of international relations or the realities of North Korea's situation.

 

[gokartman78]

I really don't get all this anti North Korea talk... I'm not pro NK nor am I anti but the one sidedness of this all is disgusting! You guys really find it strange that NK gets all mad at the US for starving them to death ( sanctions are an act of war) and playing war games in their back yard (millitary exercises with SK).

Yes, lets bomb NK because bombing a nations always works out (Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq..). Lets bomb Iran to for reasons of them might doing something bad.

If they NK's had spent the money on food rather than pointless military exercises and missile tests, then the starvation problem would not be as great.

 

[Famine]

Putting sanctions on a nation to...

... punish them for breaching their international treaty not to develop nuclear weapons and ...

... force them ...

... to choose whether to pursue illegal nuclear weaponry or provide for their citizens ...

... is a ...

... valid function of the United Nations.

 

[VolkswagenX]

If they NK's had spent the money on food rather than pointless military exercises and missile tests, then the starvation problem would not be as great.

All the money in the world would not help if the world police blocks your from importing food or resources needed to produce food...

... punish them for breaching their international treaty not to develop nuclear weapons and ...... to choose whether to pursue illegal nuclear weaponry or provide for their citizens ...... valid function of the United Nations.

Who gets punished? Kim or the people of NK? Any sanctions ever on the US for using chemical weapons. People in Vietnam are still getting sick of the effect of agent orange.

When you use the term "pissed" to describe North Korea's attitude to the US (blatantly missing what Touring Mars said), it gives the impression that you're a middle/high schooler who really has no understanding of international relations or the realities of North Korea's situation.

Cool.

 

[Famine]

Who gets punished? Kim or the people of NK?

The people who make the poor decisions face the sanctions. Their choice is to stop making poor decisions or pass them onto their people.

Any sanctions ever on the US for using chemical weapons. People in Vietnam are still getting sick of the effect of agent orange.

Has the US signed a chemical weapon non-proliferation treaty under which to be sanctioned?

North Korea signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. It has since chosen to withdraw (illegally) and make nuclear weapons (illegally). Good luck finding a comparable stick to beat the USA with.

 

[Touring Mars]

Never denied that. I said that NK is pissed at US and the sanctions have a lot to do with it.

Maybe so, but it does not excuse their belligerence. And it in no way explains why North Korea are equally 'pissed' at Japan and South Korea. The only reason North Korea is not sabre-rattling at China as well is because China continues to trade with North Korea, despite the sanctions that China itself has agreed to, but may at any time decide to tighten up on. If and when that happens, North Korea might start threatening Beijing with nuclear missiles, and we'll see how well that will work for them.

If they NK's had spent the money on food rather than pointless military exercises and missile tests, then the starvation problem would not be as great.

The North Korean regime blame everyone but themselves for their country's plight - more than a tad rich coming from a bunch of mindless cretins who consider it an act of treason to sell/trade rice (or any other staple grain) - punishable by deportation to a forced labour camp. North Korean people should be able to grow their own food but are not able to due to the appallingly cruel and inhumane policies of their own government.

 

[gokartman78]

All the money in the world would not help if the world police blocks your from importing food or resources needed to produce food...

You think that these recent sanctions are to blame for the starvation?
NK has had a food problem for decades. Also the sanctions do not stop imports, but they just check cargo moving into NK. Hardly stopping the food.

 

[VolkswagenX]

The people who make the poor decisions face the sanctions. Their choice is to stop making poor decisions or pass them onto their people.Has the US signed a chemical weapon non-proliferation treaty under which to be sanctioned?

North Korea signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. It has since chosen to withdraw (illegally) and make nuclear weapons (illegally). Good luck finding a comparable stick to beat the USA with.

Thats perfect! We can commit war crimes because we did not sign the treaty and we can invade every country that did sign the treaty even when we don't have proof of them violating the treaty I hope I understand correctly. I guess peace will never be an option when you look at it this way. Also good to know that a nations people are at fault for having stupid dictators. At least we get to choose our idiots:tup:

You think that these recent sanctions are to blame for the starvation?
NK has had a food problem for decades. Also the sanctions do not stop imports, but they just check cargo moving into NK. Hardly stopping the food.

Lol, really?

 

[Zenith]

The ignorance in that post is astounding.

I would suggest comparing the amount of knowledge you possess against the knowledge base of those who are disagreeing with you before making any more asinine comments.

Lol.