opinions on the use of 4X4 or SUV's in GT5 prologue or GT5

[Worst_Driver]

Hey why not ? They are way better than those slow boring kei cars. And well you guys were not talking about the same kind of SUV as me but any here are some that I'd like to race.

Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8.
Cadillac Escalade,Chevy Tahoe/Suburban, GMC Denali/Yukon.
Ford Expedition, Lincoln Navigator.
...

I'd drive those big tanks over any kei cars for sure.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> Videos that makes this thread is all about:

 

[Snaeper]

Really? How does one determine what cars are worthy of GT5? I don't say that in a combative tone, but I would be interested to see what you mean by that. GT4 was full of a lot of standard road cars that seemed to have no real place in a racing game.

They key is to have events where driving these vehicles would be fun and challenging. Imagine a race around the Nurbugring consisting of only Escalades, Expeditions, Durangos, and a Grand Cherokees. Or some other event on a dirt course?

On the same note, an event for minivans would be interesting. I actually dislike minivans in real life, but the challenge of coming up with the best setup and racing against other similar models is where the fun is.

Mainly, SUV's were not designed with any Circuit in mind. No part of them was ever built to race and many people don't aspire to take their Durango's to a circuit and count lap times.

Yes there are a good deal of cars that don't have any place in GT5 it would seem.. but they are cars and I'm sure someone somewhere wanted to know how it would drive on the track against other cars.

Having the high performance SUV's would be more for those who want to see how they stack up against high performance cars. They're made for the tarmac even if they're based off something made for hauling/off-roading.

Ultimately I would love to see everything in Gran Turismo, but that's just not time/cost effective to do. So you need to prioritize with what users will use in the game. Look at Forza, as much as I'm dedicated to Gran Turismo, you can't NOT look at their car list and be impressed.

 

[WolfRacer543]

Ultimately I would love to see everything in Gran Turismo, but that's just not time/cost effective to do. So you need to prioritize with what users will use in the game. Look at Forza, as much as I'm dedicated to Gran Turismo, you can't NOT look at their car list and be impressed.

I dont agree with all of what you said, but I agree with this. PD need to prioritize, and SUVs are not a priority in my mind.

 

[DJMaky]

Why not?
Gran Turismo is about cars in general, and SUV and 4x4's represent a big part of today's automotive industry.

 

[analog]

I find it strange that people who oppose the argument for the inclusion of SUV/Trucks or whatever vehicle isn't capable of lapping the Nurburgring in less than say 10 minutes always point to the fact these vehicles were not designed or capable enough to race on a track against high performance/ racecars, but since when was this the criterium for inclusion in GT?
There are more than enough cars who will, and there have been, and always will be, enough cars who will.
My point is this, GT is created for a wide-ranging audience with wide-ranging tastes and preferences.
It is not just aimed at hardcore racers but also casual gamers and, also very importantly, car enthusiasts who like the ability to try out a wide array of different cars.
SUV's and such are still only a minority in the total line-up of GT and will probably always be, the bread and butter content of GT will still contain of mostly the normal lower/middle/high performance cars we all know and love.
That some vehicles are added which you may dislike but are a welcome addition to a lot of other gamers with different preferences is just inherint to the blueprint of what makes GT, well, GT.
What i mean is that you can't use the same arguments why you like certain cars to explain why other cars you may dislike should be banned.
The inclusion of other type of cars for a lot of people are based on other arguments than thinking the be all and end all of driving games is setting the fastests lap times.
Imagine it the other way round, what if your enthusiasm for high performance
cars was continiually counterargued by the fact that they are rubbish off road and should therefor not be included, it would make no sense.
I don't say you shouldn't have the opinion that SUV's should be excluded or limited but please come up with an original argument why.

 

[raceur]

I think there should be a Toyota Camry event held at Eiger with the objective of seeing how many cars you can hold behind you.

And yes 4X4s aren't made for the track, but neither are kei cars

 

[Joey D]

I guess I need to requote this:

You guys really need to get in touch with this guy:

And silly me, SUV's can't go racing, especially on the 'Ring

Seriously some SUV's will work just fine in a racing game. I would rather have the Cayanne, X5 or Typhoon over some cube looking Japanese car that has 40hp and isn't worth anything at all. I'm not saying put normal, everyday SUV's in like the Ford Escape, but rather stick with the more performance oriented ones.

SUV's do work on a track, proof is in the pictures.

 

[finnracer]

^But all those SUV's are being driven for testing and fine tuning purposes(i.e.Suspension and brakes) so they cannot be classed as SUV's racing as that is not the mules purpose.

 

[analog]

My point was that it shouldn't even matter if they worked on a track or not.
Maybe people have other arguments why they would like a certain type of car to be included.
Maybe, and this may sound strange, the fact that a vehicle is useless on/off a track is part of the fun for someone.
But please see my previous post.

 

[Joey D]

^But all those SUV's are being driven for testing and fine tuning purposes(i.e.Suspension and brakes) so they cannot be classed as SUV's racing as that is not the mules purpose.

Still doesn't matter, if they were tuned and tested in a track environment then they can work on the track. You think Japanese Kei cars were tested on a track? Doubtful. My point is that SUV's can go around a track.

 

[CTznOfTime]

I also agree with Snaeper. I only want to see the stuff you can define as a sporting variant, and by this I do not mean Hummers, unless you can light them on fire.

Also would like to see this

We had the same car here in the U.S. a elevated station wagon:
the Ford Freestyle.
http://photo.netcarshow.com/Ford-Freestyle_Limited_2005_photo_05.jpg

ON the topic:
I would welcome anything that has four wheels and a steering wheel into this game... the more, the merrier!

 

[cletus 669]

Still doesn't matter, if they were tuned and tested in a track environment then they can work on the track. You think Japanese Kei cars were tested on a track? Doubtful. My point is that SUV's can go around a track.

That is what GT has always been to me. The ability to take anything from a daily driver to a tuned race car to the track. To me it doesn't matter what I am driving, I will always try to get the best time possible with it.

 

[ell470]

I also love the multitude of cars in the GT series, I think that's what makes GT the best game in the racing genre.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> ...

We had the same car here in the U.S. a elevated station wagon:
the Ford Freestyle.

^ Unforunately, the mundane US Ford Five Hundred/Taurus-based FWD to AWD Taurus X (formerly known as the Freestyle) is not in any way related to the far more awesome Aussie Ford Falcon-based RWD to AWD Territory.

Ford Taurus X & Ford Freestyle

Ford Territory (not FPV model )

-> These CUV's are different animals, and yes they're both deserve to be in GT5 (even non-FPV & non-SVT models) to duke it out with the Subaru (Legacy) Outbacks H-6.

 

[CTznOfTime]

My bad!!
Thanks for the clarification "The Vanishing Boy"


I feel so ashamed now... how can i call myself a car enthusiast now... how could i look myself into the mirror the next time...

my whole world has shattered... World, i retire from believing that i know anything about cars...


j/k... wow i would have thought they were related, could have sworn!

I will sleep less dumb tonight, Thanks T.V.B.

 

[Northstar]

Absolutely, the fact they aren't made for tracks makes me want them more. Anyone can get a killer time in a Ferrari, getting a killer time in an SUV is a whole new challenge.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> ...

My bad!!
Thanks for the clarification "The Vanishing Boy"


I feel so ashamed now... how can i call myself a car enthusiast now... how could i look myself into the mirror the next time...

my whole world has shattered... World, i retire from believing that i know anything about cars...


j/k... wow i would have thought they were related, could have sworn!

I will sleep less dumb tonight, Thanks T.V.B.

^ No problem! Actually A LOT of people mistaken these two tall wagons/CUV being the same!

 

[buickgnx88]

Just remember this simple concept: Australia is a RWD biased country! (and no that's not a stab at their government! )

 

[Shant J.]

They had better be there.

 

[niky]

Mainly, SUV's were not designed with any Circuit in mind. No part of them was ever built to race and many people don't aspire to take their Durango's to a circuit and count lap times.

There is no racing cup for Porsche 911 Turbos.

The Lamborghini Countach wasn't built for racing, neither was the Miura. Neither is the Ferrari 599... nor the Corvette Z06 nor the Subaru Impreza WRX.

The fact that Corvettes and Subarus race signifies nothing. These racers are purpose-built, and are not equivalent to their road-going counterparts. The differences are because neither car is built to be as fast as possible on a racetrack, but built to be useable on an everyday basis on the road.

Yes there are a good deal of cars that don't have any place in GT5 it would seem.. but they are cars and I'm sure someone somewhere wanted to know how it would drive on the track against other cars.

I was at one trackday where we had a Toyota 4Runner tripoding between cones. Not the safest thing in the world, but if you know what you're doing... fun.



(warning, large photostitch)
-

If we're arguing from the performance standpoint, SUVs nowadays are quick. A top-level Cayenne or X5/X6 can lap the Nurb in the same time range as many mid-level sportscars. An X5 with a stock suspension and a V12 racing engine lapped the Nurb in 7:50. That's a ton heavier than a Veyron with 300 hp less, and it's only 10 seconds off.

-

No, SUVs aren't as dainty around the track as a sportscar... but again, if you exclude everything that's "not as good", you're left with just ten or twenty road cars and a whole bunch of racers.

I don't know about you, but I find racecars boring. Too much speed. Too much grip. Too much downforce. Road cars are a challenge... understeer, oversteer, poor grip, no aero...

It's always more fun to drive a slow car way too fast than to drive a fast car... errh... fast.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> ...

I was at one trackday where we had a Toyota 4Runner tripoding between cones. Not the safest thing in the world, but if you know what you're doing... fun.



(warning, large photostitch)

^ That looks like fun! I also remember I went two wheels on my parents Montero Sport in front of the Hospital.

OT-> Something that reminded me:



^ I recall that the L200 aka. the L200 Strada in PinoyLand, same goes with the popular Hi-Lux. I know its kinda of a promo vid from Mitsubishi, but it is educational nonetheless.

I don't know about you, but I find racecars boring. Too much speed. Too much grip. Too much downforce. Road cars are a challenge... understeer, oversteer, poor grip, no aero...

It's always more fun to drive a slow car way too fast than to drive a fast car... errh... fast .

^ Pareho tayo pare! | ^ We're the same dude!

BT-> One of the reasons why SUVs/CUVs deserve to be in GT5 because its just fun.

-> Few years ago, I test drove the '06 Honda Pilot at an autocross track. It was very entertaining, as I turned off the VSA and the Pilot powerslide all over the track! (Of course, with a little help of feint/scandinavian flick)

 

[Exorcet]

I prefer sportier cars. I could go for GT without anything FWD or 4+doors. GT is already behind reality in that you don't sense G forces, so slow cars tend to feel really slow. And if I'm going to wrestle something, I'd rather wrestle my driven wheels than four tires overloaded with weight.

 

[Snaeper]

There is no racing cup for Porsche 911 Turbos.

The Lamborghini Countach wasn't built for racing, neither was the Miura. Neither is the Ferrari 599... nor the Corvette Z06 nor the Subaru Impreza WRX.

The fact that Corvettes and Subarus race signifies nothing. These racers are purpose-built, and are not equivalent to their road-going counterparts. The differences are because neither car is built to be as fast as possible on a racetrack, but built to be useable on an everyday basis on the road.

Those are cars that are built from racing heritage. Those are cars that find their home on a race track, cars that are tested and developed on a race track. Regardless if they actually competed on one.

If we're arguing from the performance standpoint, SUVs nowadays are quick. A top-level Cayenne or X5/X6 can lap the Nurb in the same time range as many mid-level sportscars. An X5 with a stock suspension and a V12 racing engine lapped the Nurb in 7:50. That's a ton heavier than a Veyron with 300 hp less, and it's only 10 seconds off.

I didn't realize I was arguing, and yes I do realize this... These are the SUV's that should be included in GT5.

No, SUVs aren't as dainty around the track as a sportscar... but again, if you exclude everything that's "not as good", you're left with just ten or twenty road cars and a whole bunch of racers.

I don't know about you, but I find racecars boring. Too much speed. Too much grip. Too much downforce. Road cars are a challenge... understeer, oversteer, poor grip, no aero...

It's always more fun to drive a slow car way too fast than to drive a fast car... errh... fast.

"Not as good"? What exactly are you quoting when you say that? Of course it's fun to drive slow cars fast. And there are plenty of slow cars to drive. So there's no point in adding SUV's into the mix. That just wouldn't fit into the what GT is, having run-of-the-mill SUV's. The SUV's that can run the 'ring faster than most sports cars are perfectly acceptable.

Porsche Cayenne GTS = 👍
Cadillac Escalade = 👎

And allow me to re-iterate: If it was time/cost effective, I would love to see every type of vehicle in Gran Turismo. But games need time (as we're all well aware) and cost money. So you need to prioritize to save both. Thus GT should only focus on the cars that make some sense when you put them in.

 

[raceur]

I prefer sportier cars. I could go for GT without anything FWD or 4+doors. GT is already behind reality in that you don't sense G forces, so slow cars tend to feel really slow. And if I'm going to wrestle something, I'd rather wrestle my driven wheels than four tires overloaded with weight.

The slowness is only relative. If you took a Mini to Daytona Oval that'd be pretty boring. But at Eiger it's much more fun. Similarly a good track for a 4X4 would be tight, twisty, off-camber, rough. You wouldn't feel slow there, if the car was bouncing around and you were struggling for grip. I appreciate that's not for everyone, but it's not easy.

And as had been pointed out you can hardly call the likes of the Cayenne, BMX Xx, Range Rover Sport, Touraeg R50 etc slow in a straight line and they're not exactly slugs around the corners either. If GT5 has dynamic weather with rain, maybe even snow then the extra traction of these cars will start to show up the quick 2WDs which will begin to struggle to use their power/weight advantage.

Snaeper - agree with everything you say but I'd like a Wrangler or so in there too.

 

[niky]

Those are cars that are built from racing heritage. Those are cars that find their home on a race track, cars that are tested and developed on a race track. Regardless if they actually competed on one.

The Mazda Miata was not built on racing heritage. In fact, the only race it competes in is Spec Miata, and it's successful there because all the cars are limited to the same spec.

The Corvette was not built on racing heritage. The Z06, arising from the C5R program was. The ZR1 was not built on racing heritage. It shared nothing with common Corvettes.

A Skyline is not built on racing heritage, JGTC notwithstanding (and those are closer to silhoutte racers)... it's built on a taxi-cab body. The original ones weren't tested on the Nurb, mind you...

I didn't realize I was arguing, and yes I do realize this... These are the SUV's that should be included in GT5.

"Not as good"? What exactly are you quoting when you say that? Of course it's fun to drive slow cars fast. And there are plenty of slow cars to drive. So there's no point in adding SUV's into the mix. That just wouldn't fit into the what GT is, having run-of-the-mill SUV's. The SUV's that can run the 'ring faster than most sports cars are perfectly acceptable.

Porsche Cayenne GTS = 👍
Cadillac Escalade = 👎

The problem is, there are a lot of slow cars in GT4 that don't drive nearly as well as an SUV. Less grip, more understeer, less power. To argue that SUVs don't fit into the spirit of GT for reasons of speed... can't work... some "ordinary" ones are faster than "ordinary" cars around the track. If it's for reasons of how they drive... well... you haven't ever drifted a two ton truck, have you? Just like a muscle car. Terrible brakes, tons of body roll, understeer followed quickly by oversteer...

And allow me to re-iterate: If it was time/cost effective, I would love to see every type of vehicle in Gran Turismo. But games need time (as we're all well aware) and cost money. So you need to prioritize to save both. Thus GT should only focus on the cars that make some sense when you put them in.

No one's suggesting we give up other cars for GT or that we wait another year for them to put in trucks... but if they had them, it would be nice.

While I love Kei cars and sport compacts, I would rather have a Toyota Tacoma in the game than a Toyota Corolla...

 

[raceur]

The only way I'd want the Corolla in the race is on a a trailer, towed by my high-performance 4X4. Then it'd be a fun car.

 

[Seismica]

I think a good coverage of Off-road vehicles would be good for GT. I mean, we had the pick-ups in GT4. We had a Land Rover in GT4, but it was fairly pointless.

I'm saying i would like a good selection of 4x4s in GT5, at least the top of the range models, range rover, X5/6 etc.

But I won't be bothered if they are missed out. However, I will be bothered if they put 1 or 2 Nissan 4x4s in, and miss out whole manufacturer line-ups from Land Rover and various other companys such as BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc.

 

[Sohvakettu]

BMW hasn't made a single real off road car to my knowledge though...
X5/6 are notoriously bad off the roads and BMW estates are better on the road than their SUVs.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

^ I agree, hatches, wagons, or sport wagons are better than those Bumbling X-Bimmers.