Patch Release Notes and Discussion Thread
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mister dog
(Banned)
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- misterdog
- misterdog7
- 1,391
- vermont
- diesel4x497
Seems very buggy after 7.0 more land mines, blue screen and so on. This game is so far off any serious online racing 👎
Love the dash apps thobut we should have a more solid running game/sim by now. I can't see we will ever get it now tho!!
EDIT: Run some GT3s yesterday and the tyres was heating ok really (not right tho). I did notice the tyres stayed mostly green yet when i looked at the temps my rears was 250-260 @ Watkinks.
On the dash app tyres would go in the red, yet on the tyre indicator in game would stay green.
In other classes they just don't heat up!
some info from the dev that made the pcars app i think
I got PCars Dash up and running on my tablet. I like it a lot. Pretty cool app.
I noticed that the temps on my brakes match the temps I see on screen, but the brakes turn red in the app way before they turn red in the game, and I think by a few hundred degrees. The same thing seems to happen with tire temps. Red in the app, well before any section of the tire even starts turning brown in the game. The tire wear doesn't seem to match either. Although, there, the screen shows more wear than the app, but the app's numbers feel more like the grip I have in game.
Does anyone else have this issue? Why are the figures different, and better yet, which one is right?
With regards to tire wear, the in game HUD shows wear to 50% (ie when the in game HUD shows the tires are worn out, they are actually at 50%). My app (and some of the others) show the FULL tire wear, so if my app shows 0%, then the tires are completely gone.
As for the colors with temps for brakes/tires, it currently just uses a range i preset in the app. I think in game there are different tire heating ranges/colours for different compounds, but we don't get that info in the API so ive just done a best guess estimate of recommended temps. I have it on my list to make the ranges configurable so you can see when they turn red etc.
McKiernan
Premium
- 809
- Dublin/Ireland
- McKiernan
- Nope
Cheers for the info 👍 he is not the developer of PCars Dash though, this guy is http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/member.php?55366-cjorgens79some info from the dev that made the pcars app i think
Originally Posted by Haiden
I got PCars Dash up and running on my tablet. I like it a lot. Pretty cool app.
I noticed that the temps on my brakes match the temps I see on screen, but the brakes turn red in the app way before they turn red in the game, and I think by a few hundred degrees. The same thing seems to happen with tire temps. Red in the app, well before any section of the tire even starts turning brown in the game. The tire wear doesn't seem to match either. Although, there, the screen shows more wear than the app, but the app's numbers feel more like the grip I have in game.
Does anyone else have this issue? Why are the figures different, and better yet, which one is right?
With regards to tire wear, the in game HUD shows wear to 50% (ie when the in game HUD shows the tires are worn out, they are actually at 50%). My app (and some of the others) show the FULL tire wear, so if my app shows 0%, then the tires are completely gone.
As for the colors with temps for brakes/tires, it currently just uses a range i preset in the app. I think in game there are different tire heating ranges/colours for different compounds, but we don't get that info in the API so ive just done a best guess estimate of recommended temps. I have it on my list to make the ranges configurable so you can see when they turn red etc.
Edit: Nevermind, I think the post you quoted was by cjorgens in reply to Haiden.
Last edited:
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Stephen Viljoen, the Game Designer/Director :
"Hi guys,
It's interesting to read all these theories and speculation on the what and the why! Apologies that a proper answer has been a while coming but we wanted to be sure of what exactly was causing the issues. Well, after much back-and-forth testing between patch 5.0 and patch 7.0, we finally got to the bottom of this. Firstly though, we decided it was best to revert to the patch 5.0 style tyre heat model. The simple truth is that it was a too far-reaching change that on review should not have been patched into the game at this late stage in the product's life cycle. As it happened, there was another change in patch 6.0 that we didn't revert as it wasn't obviously related, which is now causing the discrepancy between how the tyres heat in patch 7.0 versus patch 5.0. We have a fix in testing currently and all being well, will roll it out in Patch 8.0.
We'll keep you posted on how testing goes, but please keep in mind that the team is pretty much shut down from end today until first week in January, so don't expect to hear too much back before January."
From the Pcars tire physics thread.
"Hi guys,
It's interesting to read all these theories and speculation on the what and the why! Apologies that a proper answer has been a while coming but we wanted to be sure of what exactly was causing the issues. Well, after much back-and-forth testing between patch 5.0 and patch 7.0, we finally got to the bottom of this. Firstly though, we decided it was best to revert to the patch 5.0 style tyre heat model. The simple truth is that it was a too far-reaching change that on review should not have been patched into the game at this late stage in the product's life cycle. As it happened, there was another change in patch 6.0 that we didn't revert as it wasn't obviously related, which is now causing the discrepancy between how the tyres heat in patch 7.0 versus patch 5.0. We have a fix in testing currently and all being well, will roll it out in Patch 8.0.
We'll keep you posted on how testing goes, but please keep in mind that the team is pretty much shut down from end today until first week in January, so don't expect to hear too much back before January."
From the Pcars tire physics thread.
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- jimmy_b_84
double post
- 69
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- jimmy_b_84
Ninja'd
- 1,768
- United Kingdom
- Zakspeed_TV
So i spent a few hours @ Brands GP in the BMW Z4 GT3, i don't know what they have done but driving with no TC and stability seems harder now. I think driving with aids has more of a advantage and is faster,on this track anyway. Was testing cambers and to me rear -0.0 was still faster, i had to re tune the car as my old setup was pretty wild with abs only. Here are my laps and tune, lap 1 abs only lap 2 full aids.
- 2,224
- chicago
- EliteKilla29
It's just crazy how you can manage to get back to the gas so quick without getting tight or loose. A few days ago when me you and lightweight was racing at spa using GT3 cars i was just amazed. I was hitting my marks so perfectly and the car was doing what it had to do. But man i still couldn't stay with you. I really didn't have a handling issue.
- 1,768
- United Kingdom
- Zakspeed_TV
- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
Haven't tested camber much since the patch, but it seems the camber thrust effect is there, it's just so tiny it makes little to no difference, so grip at peak loads isn't much higher than 0.0, but longitudinal traction is better with 0.0, so depending on the track, it can still be faster with 0.0, it can be faster with camber, and on some tracks it makes no difference. Disappointing, but not unexpected from an SMS fix lol.
I also noticed the aids seem to be more beneficial, thanks for bringing that up, I thought I may have been going mad lol. I have the aids set to "real", but with the buttons mapped to my keyboard, because I usually switch them off in the cars that have them. I usually run a couple of laps with the aids on, and then I'll turn them off to compare. Most cars just feel better with all aids off, or I feel more in control. I just have it set to real so I have the option in the cars that do irl.
Recently I had a hard time finding braking stability in the setup of my Macca GT3, and it just ended up being far better with abs on. Perhaps this is down to the tyre changes in 7.0, but it's good to know I'm not the only person noticing this, I thought maybe I was imagining it lol.
- 1,768
- United Kingdom
- Zakspeed_TV
Yes i only had a quick play with this combo as i know were i should be at lap time wise and didn't expect my faster laps to come with lower numbers after 7.0, its strange as before my tune had -2.2 on the front but to me it felt better with -1.2 this time around
They have fixed the straight line speed advantage that's clear but i still don't think cambers are working as they should, on this car and track anyway . Gonna do some more testing on this next week tho.
As for aids being even more beneficial, its disappointing as i always think the challenge without should be faster.
I guess things will all change again in 8.0 tho
- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
Yes i only had a quick play with this combo as i know were i should be at lap time wise and didn't expect my faster laps to come with lower numbers after 7.0, its strange as before my tune had -2.2 on the front but to me it felt better with -1.2 this time around
They have fixed the straight line speed advantage that's clear but i still don't think cambers are working as they should, on this car and track anyway . Gonna do some more testing on this next week tho.
As for aids being even more beneficial, its disappointing as i always think the challenge without should be faster.
I guess things will all change again in 8.0 tho
Cars being faster with or without driver aids can really depend on the car. It's usually better without them, as they're often too intrusive, but the systems used in some race cars are so good that drivers are more often faster with them than without. Remember the traction control systems F1 used to have? Those cars were insane, and I remember when the ban on aids was lifted, the big teams made a huge jump in performance, and the small teams struggled due to not being able to develop their systems as much as the sophisticated systems the top teams used. Some small teams didn't have TC, and were left way behind.
However, in road cars, it's pretty much always better to have them turned off. If the car breaks out on corner entry, the TC will prevent the driver having control of the throttle, and often it will bog you down and make it actually harder to catch the slide or slide through a corner quickly. Same with ABS, it often is too hardcore, and disabling it allows you to get closer to the car's braking limit before locking.
I think maybe it's the tyre temp changes that might be messing with this, as the colder tyres will make the car a bit more edgy at the limit, and aids can smooth out that behaviour.
I think from what was posted on the official forum, that they took out part of the 6.0 change because they figured it was too big a change to introduce midway through the product's life (pity they thought about that after the 6.0 changes), and that the 7.0 changes were reverting some things back to 5.0 spec, and leaving some changes in. Apparently the changes left in were not working with the 5.0 parts that were re-introduced, so they reckon they've got a fix in testing for 8.0. Basically from that, I expect 8.0 to completely revert to the 5.0 tyre behaviour, which is disappointing, but at least better than what we've currently got.
The camber issue is just getting annoying. How it hasn't been fixed yet amazes me. How long was the game in development? How many people were constantly testing the game and playing it during this period? I get that games have bugs these days, but the camber thing isn't even a bug, it just doesn't work. How did everyone not notice that in development? Camber is a huge piece of a race car's set up, and this game was aiming for mega realism, so surely that's something fundamental to the aim of the game, wouldn't they want the physics to be rock solid?
Sorry I'm ranting now lol.
- 272
- Germany
I did notice some difference regarding the driving aids, too. I usually race with all aids off and in the last few days and races, I had more difficulties with braking without locking up and keeping the car stable. After a few laps you can even see my black skidmarks in the braking zones. The interesting thing is, though, I get the most deceleration if the tyres are all locked up, I have no problem setting my braking points quite late on the straights. When I try to brake not as hard and keep the tyres spinning, I overshoot the corner by a wide margin.
I did some additional testing with ABS on. I can brake a little bit later and harder, but I obviously don't lock up. Right now, the aid seems to help you very much. It is not possible for me to recreate a similar effective deceleration process within the limits of the physics with just my foot. FYI, I was driving the McLaren 12C GT3 around Monza.
I don't know what this is up to, probably the reworked tyre physics. It has been good in my opinion before the devs changed the tyres, but now it all doesn't feel so right at the moment. Especially the fact that you have to lock up to be able to brake hard and late and that ABS gives you a big advantage is a little bit worrying to me.
I did some additional testing with ABS on. I can brake a little bit later and harder, but I obviously don't lock up. Right now, the aid seems to help you very much. It is not possible for me to recreate a similar effective deceleration process within the limits of the physics with just my foot. FYI, I was driving the McLaren 12C GT3 around Monza.
I don't know what this is up to, probably the reworked tyre physics. It has been good in my opinion before the devs changed the tyres, but now it all doesn't feel so right at the moment. Especially the fact that you have to lock up to be able to brake hard and late and that ABS gives you a big advantage is a little bit worrying to me.
- 1,768
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- Zakspeed_TV
Yes the amount of time in development tyres and cambers should have been solid before release, instead they are making themselves look silly again. Time should be being spent on making online solid, as it is any serious racing is a total waste of time, its a lottery every race you enter because of the bugs. Im not sure we will end up with the game we have waited so long for.
- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
Perhaps not, which would be a big disappointment, as there is a great sim in there. When the game works, it's a thing of beauty (not the graphics, they're crap, the beauty is in the feel of the cars). I just wish they could get their **** together. Game's shouldn't have this many issues after being out for 7 months. Look at how well and how quickly Evolution fixed the issues in Driveclub. Then they went on to support that game seemingly forever with new content and features. Yet, with Pcars, we get a couple of things fixed per month in patches that often re-introduce bugs that were fixed in previous patches, or introduce new bugs, not to mention advertised features missing from the game still, and the core physics still not actually working properly.
I say all this as a big fan of the game though, it needs to be said. I've seen it's potential, and me and Pcars have been through some ups and downs, so I just want to see it grow into the amazing sim it really can be. Jesus SMS, get your god damn **** together and fix this game already!
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Ian Bell on tire heat change in 7.0 :
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...iving-on-Ice&p=1196254&viewfull=1#post1196254
In reply to this post :
Originally Posted by Rockefelluh
Wow, this is ridiculous. Adjusted the tire physics TWICE in 2 months
Ian Bell said :
"I don't see this as being ridiculous at all. We added a more demanding heating system to the tyres to introduce more strategy in long races due to costumer demand. When added, some users found it undrivable on pads so we reverted.
If us trying to deliver requests to users is ridiculous then it's sort of hard for us to win. Now, the fact that the revert introduced a bug is disappointing, but probably not worthy of being called ridiculous. I think the way we are constantly adding to the game needs a slightly different mindset than would apply to most games out there.
Tyre physics weren't adjusted per se, the heating was made more strict."
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...iving-on-Ice&p=1196254&viewfull=1#post1196254
In reply to this post :
Wow, this is ridiculous. Adjusted the tire physics TWICE in 2 months
Ian Bell said :
"I don't see this as being ridiculous at all. We added a more demanding heating system to the tyres to introduce more strategy in long races due to costumer demand. When added, some users found it undrivable on pads so we reverted.
If us trying to deliver requests to users is ridiculous then it's sort of hard for us to win. Now, the fact that the revert introduced a bug is disappointing, but probably not worthy of being called ridiculous. I think the way we are constantly adding to the game needs a slightly different mindset than would apply to most games out there.
Tyre physics weren't adjusted per se, the heating was made more strict."
- 2,224
- chicago
- EliteKilla29
Ian Bell on tire heat change in 7.0 :
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...iving-on-Ice&p=1196254&viewfull=1#post1196254
In reply to this post :
Originally Posted by Rockefelluh
Wow, this is ridiculous. Adjusted the tire physics TWICE in 2 months
Ian Bell said :
"I don't see this as being ridiculous at all. We added a more demanding heating system to the tyres to introduce more strategy in long races due to costumer demand. When added, some users found it undrivable on pads so we reverted.
If us trying to deliver requests to users is ridiculous then it's sort of hard for us to win. Now, the fact that the revert introduced a bug is disappointing, but probably not worthy of being called ridiculous. I think the way we are constantly adding to the game needs a slightly different mindset than would apply to most games out there.
Tyre physics weren't adjusted per se, the heating was made more strict."
Yea but they didn't have to go overboard with the heating for the tires. And all we ask for was to tone it down a little so are tires won't overheat after 2 or 3 laps. Now it's hard trying to keep the tires warm during a race after 7.0. It's the complete opposite of what we wanted. Like i said, i just wanted it tone down.
killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
Us poor wheel users!
- 1,391
- vermont
- diesel4x497
Even some wheel users thought that V6.0 was a little to much, maybe if the tires cooled quicker it would have been fine.Us poor wheel users!
The problem was there is difference between PC and console in the heating and cooling speeds
- 1,467
- Gent Ghent Gand
- svenvangent968
Now that I have read all your opinions and going a bit loco about ABS , TC , and ST do we turn all aids off or on to drive faster/better ?
For the moment I'm driving only with TC on .
For the moment I'm driving only with TC on .
- 2,373
- The Chocolate Factory
- ozwheels3
I find it ironic that Ian said "they added a more demanding heat model based on consumer demand". This game was sold as a sim and instead of adding a more realistic heat model they choose to add one that consumers wanted, which we mostly agreed wasn't realistic, but was close. There's a lot to his post if you read between the lines.Ian Bell on tire heat change in 7.0 :
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...iving-on-Ice&p=1196254&viewfull=1#post1196254
In reply to this post :
Originally Posted by Rockefelluh
Wow, this is ridiculous. Adjusted the tire physics TWICE in 2 months
Ian Bell said :
"I don't see this as being ridiculous at all. We added a more demanding heating system to the tyres to introduce more strategy in long races due to costumer demand. When added, some users found it undrivable on pads so we reverted.
If us trying to deliver requests to users is ridiculous then it's sort of hard for us to win. Now, the fact that the revert introduced a bug is disappointing, but probably not worthy of being called ridiculous. I think the way we are constantly adding to the game needs a slightly different mindset than would apply to most games out there.
Tyre physics weren't adjusted per se, the heating was made more strict."
- 796
- Colorado
- ONESPACE
You may or may not be oval fans, but this post from Ian Bell is in reference to adding the oval racing that should of already been in the game
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?43205-Another-thread-opened-Ian-is-listening/page10
Originally Posted by BigDad
Any chance of a reply to post 85 ?
Cheers.
Yes.
It's still somewhat up in the air and I'll tell you why. We are struggling with the current engine to get the AI behaving like they should across multiple track variations, lengths and normal strategies.
Again, it's a engine issue that we weren't fully prescient on. The most likely scenario is that we'll rewrite that area of the engine and push them out in pCARS2
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?43205-Another-thread-opened-Ian-is-listening/page10
Any chance of a reply to post 85 ?
Cheers.
Yes.
It's still somewhat up in the air and I'll tell you why. We are struggling with the current engine to get the AI behaving like they should across multiple track variations, lengths and normal strategies.
Again, it's a engine issue that we weren't fully prescient on. The most likely scenario is that we'll rewrite that area of the engine and push them out in pCARS2
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