Patch Release Notes and Discussion Thread
- Thread starter DrJustice
- 1,286 comments
- 108,794 views
- 4,221
- Louisville, KY
- ukfan758
Please don't tell me that the whole Indy 500 DLC that they hyped up just got canceled and the whole WMD article on it is possibly a lie.You may or may not be oval fans, but this post from Ian Bell is in reference to adding the oval racing that should of already been in the game
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?43205-Another-thread-opened-Ian-is-listening/page10
Originally Posted by BigDad
Any chance of a reply to post 85 ?
Cheers.
Yes.
It's still somewhat up in the air and I'll tell you why. We are struggling with the current engine to get the AI behaving like they should across multiple track variations, lengths and normal strategies.
Again, it's a engine issue that we weren't fully prescient on. The most likely scenario is that we'll rewrite that area of the engine and push them out in pCARS2
Why not just fix the coding for this game instead of making people wait years for PCars 2?
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- 1,768
- United Kingdom
- Zakspeed_TV
So yesterday i tested my Z4 GT3 at some other tracks with my old 5.0 tunes and it felt fine and hitting the same lap times, this is with low rear cambers. I find it very strange how my 5.0 tune was undriveable at Brands GP yet Mazda was spot on. Something strange is going on here! I have heard other people say the same thing about Brands too!
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
If SMS is going to design the most critical element of the game, the tire model, based on some posts on an internet Forum, they are going to be chasing their tails for a long time. I'm usually supportive of devs and believe they are doing the best they can most of the time, but this idea smacks of a dev that is floundering to find it's way and has lost it's direction. Reality is and should always be the goal, and driver aids available to those that can't deal with full simulation.
- 1,785
- Chicago, USA
^ So this. We already see the result of it with patch 6.0 and 7.0.
- 904
- York Virginia
- chilybee
Whatever is in error is at the core of the game. Meaning the rewrite would me massive. Almost like creating the game all over again. This might be why PCars2 is targeted for the fix. This is issue may central to the game itself.
Most applications have core functions that can only be altered so much before it's time to re-do the entire thing.
You cant keep adding on band aids to core code. You will eventually create an unworkable mess of an application.
Normally fixes of that magnitude take place in-house and are caught by QA testing pre-release.
It's the reason for failures to meet deadlines and release delays. It happens.
I've been on software development teams. And teams that take that software and install/configure it at client sites.
When implementing products, our favorite saying was "Nothing like on-site TCT" In other words, Technical Certification Testing (TCT) while installing the product at a client site. The customer is actually testing the product they've already paid for and expect to work properly.
If you have to adjust core function after releasing the software, a major revision may be required. And that often means the next edition of the product. Thus we are looking at PCars 2. There is only so much patching you can do before you have to revise.
This is only my opinion. I obviously don't have any true insight to the coding of Project Cars. And I could be dead wrong and way off base. So please take this as pure speculation on my part.
Most applications have core functions that can only be altered so much before it's time to re-do the entire thing.
You cant keep adding on band aids to core code. You will eventually create an unworkable mess of an application.
Normally fixes of that magnitude take place in-house and are caught by QA testing pre-release.
It's the reason for failures to meet deadlines and release delays. It happens.
I've been on software development teams. And teams that take that software and install/configure it at client sites.
When implementing products, our favorite saying was "Nothing like on-site TCT" In other words, Technical Certification Testing (TCT) while installing the product at a client site. The customer is actually testing the product they've already paid for and expect to work properly.
If you have to adjust core function after releasing the software, a major revision may be required. And that often means the next edition of the product. Thus we are looking at PCars 2. There is only so much patching you can do before you have to revise.
This is only my opinion. I obviously don't have any true insight to the coding of Project Cars. And I could be dead wrong and way off base. So please take this as pure speculation on my part.
- 1,571
- Zemst
- Fryto1983
The last couple of pages in this thread are a truly depressing read. They lied in the faces of their loyal backers and fans. Probably not intentionally, but they should have held themselves back with promises they could not deliver.
Indy 500 articles teasing an oval expansion that would never come, "Coming Soon" boxes all over the place in the career menus while all they did was adding a couple more superfluous invitationals instead of actual career expansions, promising full Le Mans grids while Le Mans in the career mode only has 30 cars, promising unrivalled multiclass racing while not even allowing you to select the classes properly in solo mode, etc etc.
I still like the game for what it is, a proper simulator on consoles, which is what I've been waiting for since a long time, but SMS really needs to learn its own limits and know that it's not ok to pull the legs of their customers with empty promises.
dopedog
(Banned)
- 880
- United Kingdom
Quite simple, SMS started off wanting PCars to be an evolving title, organic and added to when needed. Then they realised it sold so well on consoles they quickly thought of the old sequel which other games have royally profited from, codemasters springs to mind with withholding stuff for the 'next one'... so coming soon was there for the new stuff, whatever they were GOING to add on in game during its organic life.
Now add to that that with PCars 2 they wont have to keep paying the first bunch of backers and start a fresh in PCars2 with new backers (alot less of them) also that the good stuff like custom championships will just go into PCars 2 along with promised cars tracks etc...well that business folks, like it or lump it.
The fact Ian does it with such arrogance and cold disregard makes it all the worse. I wish is AC on consoles is good and i can l;eave the PCars franchise as i love the game but dislike Ian Bell.
Now add to that that with PCars 2 they wont have to keep paying the first bunch of backers and start a fresh in PCars2 with new backers (alot less of them) also that the good stuff like custom championships will just go into PCars 2 along with promised cars tracks etc...well that business folks, like it or lump it.
The fact Ian does it with such arrogance and cold disregard makes it all the worse. I wish is AC on consoles is good and i can l;eave the PCars franchise as i love the game but dislike Ian Bell.
- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
these two posts sum it up very well IMO.
Edit: and here's two pre-release posts from the WMD forum that quite clearly explain the sorry state of the game just before it dropped, and why we were all made to believe it would all be made rosy in a future update...
So mods prepping members for the big marketing pitch we all recieved...
and members reporting they were hyping up features they knew **** all about, in the hope that SMS might be able to deliver what they were hyping up in a future update...
No bloody wonder the hype never materialised into anything real...
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- 8,451
- Rockay City
I think you will find more examples of (ex-)WMD members who are just as gutted as the general public about being led on by SMS to be honest. Can't blame WMD members for touting a feature as 'definitely coming' when they are assured by SMS that it's 'definitely coming' (and basically given the green light to do so).
I think SMS is going to have a really hard time rallying the same amount of support for part 2. Overpromise and underdeliver is not something people forget, and it's on par with PD's shenenigans.
I think SMS is going to have a really hard time rallying the same amount of support for part 2. Overpromise and underdeliver is not something people forget, and it's on par with PD's shenenigans.
- 2,555
- New Zealand
- GTP_Animera
- Bleh
I really don't get all this negativity.
What is all the moaning going to achieve?
If you enjoy the game then play it. If not, then move on.
Isn't that why we buy games? To be entertained and have some fun?
If something is so frustrating and having such an impact on their lives, why do people put themselves through that?
I still think this is the best racing game I've ever played. Perhaps it's because I didn't follow the development and get all hyped up, and so I was thrilled by what I got and am still getting.
What is all the moaning going to achieve?
If you enjoy the game then play it. If not, then move on.
Isn't that why we buy games? To be entertained and have some fun?
If something is so frustrating and having such an impact on their lives, why do people put themselves through that?
I still think this is the best racing game I've ever played. Perhaps it's because I didn't follow the development and get all hyped up, and so I was thrilled by what I got and am still getting.
dopedog
(Banned)
- 880
- United Kingdom
Thats fine, thats your choice, but others can see a bit further and a look beyond the thin veneer. I love this game its great a real blast back to my time on ToCA games all those years ago, but I have to say that when people are pulling a fast one i like it to be exposed.
Look at life most people just sit back and let the 'man' do what he wants to us and we just muddle on, the bankers getting bailed out as others struggle due to the bankers mistakes, the bankers still getting mammoth pay days despite wrong doing. Enron, who exposed that? Brave people did.
I'm not saying SMS are as bad as a government, or bankers or Rupert Murdoch, but i am saying that in a game context i do not like the way SMS and Ian Bell does business. I have zero trust in them since PCars 1 despite playing it because as much as i love it i am living with so many bugs and problems.
If you want SMS to make PCars 2 better then dont blindly join the legion of people who seem to accept mediocrity and bugs.
Take for example the fact Ian and his team blame consoles for the issues as they arent fully powerful enough for PCars physics model etc... well you happily took the console players cash, at what point did they only realise consoles were at max power? On the day of release? no way...
Hey SMS if consoles are struggling how those stupid leaves on track that flick up like shift 2, yeah remove them they offer nothing be take alot, give me less trees also, you have more trees then the real life tracks! free up space, dont add what isn't needed!! YOUR TEAMS FAULT.
All of this would be easier to swallow with a bit of humility from Ian and his team, every patch is bug introduced every patch has elements promised but they dont work. Grids of 40 they cried! ermm i run about 15-20 max otherwise game cant cope. lies lies and more lies and also shilling from the hoard of WMD in the run up to release and after Ian's personal attack dogs on forums.
Remember people only get banned on offical forum for being rude........unless they are being rude about people with problems in the game.....
- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
I don't really buy the whole "We've maxed out the consoles" line. The game is just poorly optimised for the consoles, that's all. Look at how much it improved from day one, as they optimised more things. In the end, the fact that so many things either don't work, or routinely break, shows that the game is poorly coded. The Shift games suffered the exact same issues, as did Test Drive: Ferrari.
They've managed to put out a mess of a game, got their backers to overhype it to the max pre-release to guarantee sales, cut off support early to shift focus to the sequel, where they don't have to pay backers for every copy sold, and now, after breaking promises, failing to fix major issues in the core of the game, flat out admitted they won't bother fixing a lot of the worst issues, and they say "but Pcars 2 will be perfect, and it'll have all these things you want, and it'll all work fine".
Now does it make any sense to actually believe that? This is a developer who admitted, seven months after releasing an absolute mess on consoles, that they didn't actually do any testing of the console versions, and instead farmed out the console QA to a third party on the cheap. Ian bloody said that himself!
They've managed to put out a mess of a game, got their backers to overhype it to the max pre-release to guarantee sales, cut off support early to shift focus to the sequel, where they don't have to pay backers for every copy sold, and now, after breaking promises, failing to fix major issues in the core of the game, flat out admitted they won't bother fixing a lot of the worst issues, and they say "but Pcars 2 will be perfect, and it'll have all these things you want, and it'll all work fine".
Now does it make any sense to actually believe that? This is a developer who admitted, seven months after releasing an absolute mess on consoles, that they didn't actually do any testing of the console versions, and instead farmed out the console QA to a third party on the cheap. Ian bloody said that himself!
- 3,268
- London
- Mauler_77
But it's not an absolute mess. Granted, it's crashed my PS4 more than any other title, but it is at least playable. The real test will be what issues pCARS2 launches with. I'm still going to buy it, but wheel glitches and general facepalm-inducing bugs won't go down well at all. And might I suggest SMS keep more tight-lipped about announcements. They need to prove they've learned something from this past year.
It's still the best racing game I've played in a long time though.
- 1,038
- New Zealand
- chen-255
Not only that, but PCars2 is going to have a few racing sim titles on the market to compete with it, something PCars1 didn't face on console release. Add to that the unhappiness with the way things have turned out with PCars1 and I don't think it bodes well for PCars2 at all. They may well have "done their chips" "killed the goose" etc etc etc
By the way, I do like PCars a lot, though we all know about its many issues and I think many customers simply don't trust SMS anymore.
dopedog
(Banned)
- 880
- United Kingdom
If i could like this post more than once i would! Instead i'll quote it so its written twice.
Also regards the optimised bit, wll yes your right SMS poorly optimised the game, remember when they in a patch sorted out Watkins Glen Frame rate issue at a particular corner, well it worked the frame rate drop stopped after the patch and is now fine. So well done SMS, BUT the funny thing is until then the hardcore bunch on official forum were saying to people there were NO frame rate drops...then SMS fixes one and they all then say how great SMS are for fixing frame rate drops!! Oh and i thought after that they would fix few more tracks...but no...we will have to wait for PCars for that... and i'll never understand why SMS added MORE trees to tracks like Oulton Park, there is shed loads more trees in game, why do that? Also more trees at Donington although Donington is the best looking track in the game so they can if they wanted of optimised the whole game better..but why bother if you can just chuck out a half finished game because "no one else is doing a proper RACING game" on next gen...
Like i say, good game, nothing like it on console which is the saving grace for PCars 1, as soon as few step up or codies step back into the next gen ring with an autosport type title with the ToCA dna SMS will not have to work much harder sadly than churning out sequel after sequel.
- 904
- York Virginia
- chilybee
The only difference between the inflated hype and promises made by PD and PCars dev's is PCars has a better dynamic feeling (driving feel) and more relistic tuning user interface. And the results of mechinacal tuning done in PCars far exceeds anything GT had ever accomplished. PD wins the visual because you can actually see the results for raising/lowering and stiffining the suspension.
The social aspect of PCars was clearly not important to SMS and it shows in the on-line racing lack or driver communication and room owner setup options. Neither franchise has enough cars per racing class/group except for PCars GT3 offerings. Lambroghini and Ferrari were must haves for both games GT3 lineups. But I digress.
The main issue and the epic letdown that both PD and SMS perpritrated on their fan bases was over inflating/hyping features and upgrades that never materialized. GT did finally deliver on the course creator. But both PD and SMS lied to loyal customers. So when will we ever learn? The game is playable and very good when all is working well.
But the unresolved issues kind of eat at you. Still it's not the end of the world. And installing VOIP and on-line room naming features would be big additions.
So the only question to ask is what will better serve the companys financial bottom line?
Fixing the holes in the current game and attempting to make nice to the customer base? Or halting support of the current baseline and channeling all technical upgrades into the next full game release? Let's be real. We all know it's about money in the end. Are there still individuals at SMS who are driving to make the game the best in the market?
The social aspect of PCars was clearly not important to SMS and it shows in the on-line racing lack or driver communication and room owner setup options. Neither franchise has enough cars per racing class/group except for PCars GT3 offerings. Lambroghini and Ferrari were must haves for both games GT3 lineups. But I digress.
The main issue and the epic letdown that both PD and SMS perpritrated on their fan bases was over inflating/hyping features and upgrades that never materialized. GT did finally deliver on the course creator. But both PD and SMS lied to loyal customers. So when will we ever learn? The game is playable and very good when all is working well.
But the unresolved issues kind of eat at you. Still it's not the end of the world. And installing VOIP and on-line room naming features would be big additions.
So the only question to ask is what will better serve the companys financial bottom line?
Fixing the holes in the current game and attempting to make nice to the customer base? Or halting support of the current baseline and channeling all technical upgrades into the next full game release? Let's be real. We all know it's about money in the end. Are there still individuals at SMS who are driving to make the game the best in the market?
- 4,034
- Netherlands
- skazz-race
- skazzracer
Just saying.. every official game forum ever has similar behaviour from a small group of people on each side of the fence: The guys going over the top in their enthusiasm and the guys going over the top in their dislike.
This is not pCARS-specific, and is one of the main reasons that impartial sites like GTPlanet (has become) are great. We can discuss games in a friendly and reasonable manner, without resorting to either type of over the top behaviour.
You are asking the eternal question, especially for non-first-party studios with limited funds. Do you keep putting money into the current release despite limited returns from new sales, or do you invest what you made from the current release into the future release. And at what point do you have no choice but to work solely in the future release due to simply not having enough money. There comes a point where you have to move forward if you want to be able to keep paying your employees. Simple economics.
Let's not forget that pCARS was a gamble from all parties (otherwise it would have been publisher-backed). Nobody who signed up to WMD had any guarantees the game would make it to release. Console versions were always a big question mark. The end result of that crowd-funded development was a game which put itself up against the first party "big boys" despite a fraction of the budget, and did so with plenty of success. But it was never a true AAA game, in budget or likely sales. It is what it is, and no more than that.
pCARS 2 will also be limited budget, and with the larger scope (loose surface physics, offroad stuff) it will probably be a struggle to get everything done in time. It will have much more PS4 competition when it releases in 2017/2018, and will have to work hard to do well. SMS know this and want to give it every chance of success, which they have to do otherwise 2018 will be the year SMS went under. Simple.
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- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
It's a sim racing title with non working camber, which SMS have claimed to have fixed, and they just haven't, it has a complex tyre model, but it doesn't work, and SMS even admitted they won't be working anymore on trying to fix it, saying instead that they're actually just undoing the changes made in patch 6. The fact they said it's too late in the game's lifecycle to continue making improvements to the tyre model just screams dodgy to me, after they said they'd be supporting it for a couple of years, they've basically given up trying to improve it after 7 months!
I'm not going to continue to list all of the things that don't work, as it's been pretty well documented everywhere already, and out of the maybe hundred or so issues the game has, SMS have managed to fix maybe 10 or so fairly minor bugs. Failing to fix any of the major ones, failing to deliver any of the "coming soon" features, instead patching the game to remove the tabs lol.
I have PS+, and I won't even attempt to play Pcars online, because the issues people are facing online are literally making the game unplayable for them. Even WMD members are complaining about it on the official forums.
Now, I love the core of the game when it works, and I think the career, though poorly implemented, was a great idea. But, the problem is, this game took 4 bloody years to make, and launched in a completely broken mess, with a lot of features heavily bugged, or not working at launch, and now, seven months later, it's playable offline, but still absolutely riddled with bugs, most of which will never be fixed. How does a developer take almost five years to get a game to this stage?
Edit: I agree with you they should learn from this and not over-promise on Pcars 2, but they are already telling people everything they're wanting in Pcars will come to Pcars 2. It actually exceeds how badly PD messed up with GT6, except PD build the GT franchise up to a sales machine before making such a mess of a game, SMS have made a series of broken games, each one more ambitious in scope than the last, but every one riddled with major issues. I guess at least Pcars didn't have half a second of input lag like Shift and Test Drive, so that's progress at some level lol.
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- 3,268
- London
- Mauler_77
Everything you say is true, I don't disagree. I'm fairly new to sim racers so can overlook aspects others can't, I guess. Plus I don't have anything else at the moment to compare it to which is why I'm happy enough with it. It's all subjective of course but I understand why so many people are annoyed with SMS. They did say they'd support it for 2 years, I wonder what that really means now?
- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
Yeah, I'm only frustrated because I can see a truly great sim buried under there trying to get out, and I was hopeful from day one that it would be realised, especially with all the talk from SMS and WMD members about how the bugs would get fixed quickly.
The game was meant to be supported for two years, a point that was hammered down all of our throats when people complained about Pcars 2 development starting right after the release of Pcars. Obviously, a game's sequel is normally started right after the current one releases, most people know that's how it works, but a few questioned if Pcars would get the attention it needed, as it didn't release in a very complete state, which was fair enough.
It seems that there will be more bug fixes, but we all know by now how successful SMS bug fixes are, so I can't see them doing a whole lot. Couple that to the admission that the tyre model won't be advanced anymore, which is the opposite to what their competition on PC does, and especially disappointing given their tyre model is so complex, but just doesn't work realistically, so that doesn't build confidence in their future products.
SMS have a history of making games full of major issues, Pcars was, for a lot of people, the chance to prove they could make a true sim and collaborate with the community to make it an amazing game. There were a lot of people saying it would just be Shift 3 (referring to Shift's questionable physics and myriad of issues), and I fear they have been kind of proven right.
The PS4 version has had problems crashing since release, and multiple patches haven't managed to completely fix that. For me, crashes are less frequent now, but others are saying they get more crashes after recent patches, so perhaps I've just been lucky. The worst version of Pcars is the X1 version though, it's had a save corruption bug since 2.0 that hasn't been fixed, and likely won't be now, as it must be too hard for SMS to fix, otherwise surely they'd make it a priority as it literally is a game breaker.
I'll definitely be looking at Pcars 2, and I'll buy it if it doesn't look like more of the same, for sure, but I won't believe a word from SMS or the WMD community pre-launch.
- 2,091
- Glasgow
- Flaw3dGenius23
I wouldnt pin any hopes on Codies ever making a great game again certainly nothing that could compete with PCars nevermind PCars 2
They have a decent rally game coming on the very old and dated ego engine after that i expect a Grid game on a old and very dated engine...doesnt fill you with confidence does it.
- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
F1 2015 used an all new version of the EGO engine, and although it launched with a few funny bugs, it's mostly bug free now, and works very well. I would expect any future Grid games to use this new EGO engine, at least in the immediate future, which would be fine, as Autosport was a good simcade mix in the physics, and the newer EGO engine is another step in realism over that version.
As far as EGO being old and dated, the first version of the EGO engine dates back to 2008, while the Madness engine SMS uses in Pcars dates back to the first Shift, in 2009...
As far as EGO being old and dated, the first version of the EGO engine dates back to 2008, while the Madness engine SMS uses in Pcars dates back to the first Shift, in 2009...
- 2,091
- Glasgow
- Flaw3dGenius23
You sure its a new Ego engine? Not heard anything from codies about a new engine...why does Dirt not use it? The game was also prettymuch a disaster was average reviews across the board and thier forums full of disgruntled customers...sadly i have zero faith in Codies this day n age.
According to SMS the madness engine was built from the ground up to take full advantage of next gen and it shows as its fantastic looking, sounding and playing!
Edit: a quick google does confirm a modified ego engine rather than new...but the engine was about before 2008 as its the same engine from Colin McCrae Dirt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EGO_(game_engine)
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- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
Sorry, but the madness engine doesn't play well, it's absolutely riddled with bugs on every platform and every title it's been used for, and the graphics of Pcars are no better than Codies games, neither are the sounds.
The EGO 4.0 engine was "all new", using Codies' own words, not modified. The 4.0 EGO engine only powers F1 2015 for some reason, but my guess is Dirt Rally development must have started quite early, as it uses the same version found in F1 2013/2014, and Autosport.
According to SMS, their engine was going to provide the most realistic sim racing experience money could buy, and their tyre model was second to none, but I think we've all learned over the past half a year or so that SMS is so full of **** that they need toilet paper on hand for every time they open their mouths.
Just have a look at the way the EGO engine handles collisions and rollovers compared to the Madness engine. The best part of the Madness engine is the new SETA tyre model, and it's mostly broken in Pcars anyway.
The first EGO engine was developed from a 2007 engine Sony and Codies' co-developed, but EGO was far more advanced than that engine. There have been multiple versions of EGO, and the newest, according to Codemasters, is all new. F1 2015 certainly feels nothing like the previous games. Race Department hailed the new engine as a massive step in the right direction.
SMS spoke a lot about how great the Madness engine was, same with the SETA tyre model, and now they're saying they have to build the engine from the ground up for Pcars 2 because the engine behind 1 was too restrictive and didn't allow them to change things easily. They couldn't even get basic things like triple screens to work with it properly.
Considering SMS couldn't get the Madness engine to work properly with any of the games it powered since 2009, I'm a little worried that they think they can build a new engine for Pcars 2 within 2 years...
- 2,091
- Glasgow
- Flaw3dGenius23
Sounds like your a massive Ego engine and Codies fan so i doubt i could say anything to convince you its really not a good engine.
Personaly id take PCars to a desert island over the full Codemasters collection in last 9 or 10 years
...once they moved onto the Ego engine is when their games went downhill big time which was a shame as apart from Bizzare with Pgr they were my best dev team and one you could always rely on them even with the non racing games.
Personaly id take PCars to a desert island over the full Codemasters collection in last 9 or 10 years
...once they moved onto the Ego engine is when their games went downhill big time which was a shame as apart from Bizzare with Pgr they were my best dev team and one you could always rely on them even with the non racing games.
- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
I'm not, I'm an unbiased racing and motorsports fanatic. I can see the good and bad in every game, and I didn't once say that Codies has done no wrong in their games. If you look around, you'll find me dumping heavily on F1 2012 for being, prior to the release of Pcars, the most bug riddled racing game experience I had ever played. I haven't like any of the dirt games bar dirt 2, and despite me liking that, I didn't like it much. I much prefer the CMR games from the PS1 and 2 days. Same with the race driver games, I much prefer the PS2 ones, they were, in their day, way superior to the grid and dirt titles.
In saying that, I also have professed my love of Pcars numerous times. I both love it, and absolutely hate it lol. I utterly hated the Shift games, but I loved Test Drive Ferrari, despite the horrible engine that powered it, because the content was amazing. I even finished Test Drive, despite it having a full half second of input lag that was never patched out.
Pcars, when it works well, is a million times better than any dirt or grid game (note that I haven't played dirt rally, so I'm not counting that here), and my copy of F1 2015 has sat idle gathering dust for the most part since Pcars came out.
However, Pcars is still full of major bugs. The camber is still broken, the tyres don't ever overheat, and players have been demonstrating the wet tyres being significantly faster in the dry than slicks now, the X1 version still has a save corruption bug, the landmines are still there, the PS4 version still crashes, there are too many AI issues to list, they are just a mess, and the bugs online are even worse. Even a whole bunch of WMD members are complaining, some even getting the infamous ban for their complaints.
Codies most recent games, Autosport and F1 2015, were never meant to be sims, they were meant to be a good simcade mix in the physics, and both of them work very well. They both do what they're meant to, and neither one has 1% of the bugs of Pcars.
Now on which engine is better out of Madness or EGO, you can look at it this way:
Madness is meant to power a realistic simulator.
Madness is problematic, and SMS themselves have admitted it's very hard to implement new things to the engine without breaking things.
The tyre model and alignment physics don't work as they should, and therefore aren't realistic for a sim. SMS have also been unable to fix this.
The collision physics are completely unrealistic, not one part of them that makes sense, from the ease of driving over/under other cars, to the sticky cars bug, to the way rollovers always end in abrupt collision with invisible walls or landmine like explosions of cars.
The sounds are poorly mixed, and regularly bug out, especially when there are a few cars together in a pack.
Every time something is patched, something else breaks, this in itself shows the engine is poorly coded.
Now the EGO engine, which is meant to power more casual simcade titles.
EGO titled games have also been known in the past for bugs, some titles not having a lot of bugs fixed, but that seems to be by Codies not providing too many patches, and is mostly contained to a few F1 games.
The EGO engine has evolved such that each new title has more believable physics, especially the tyre model. The tyre model in F1 2015 has quite a good temperature model, which actually works.
The latest EGO games seem to have far fewer bugs than the earlier games, which shows progress.
The EGO games have very good collision physics, with rollovers in the rally games looking spectacular, and very believable.
They are both engines that have evolved for many years, and both are aimed at doing very different things. I can understand someone not liking Codies games because they prefer hardcore sims, or not liking Pcars because they like more arcadey games, but by purely looking at what each is attempting to do, Codies has done a better job of achieving what they set out to do with recent titles IMO. SMS doesn't seem to learn from the mistakes of their previous games, and this might have something to do with the arrogance shown by Ian many times.
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DiRT Rally on Ultra settings on the PC looks good.... Particularly draw distances and roadside detail are excellent. Yes, the lighting model could use some improvement and some higher resolution car textures would be nice, but F1 2015 showed Codies are already on top of that with the new iteration.
I think you need to distinguish between EGO engine as used on last gen consoles and the capabilities which were always in there and seen on PC.
As for Codies being unable to make a good game... Tens of thousands of DiRT Rally fans are going to disagree there. It was a suprise, but DiRT Rally really is a very good game. A proper brutal uncompromising rally sim by almost every measure, and nicely judged to appeal to a wide enough audience despite being a proper sim.
I think you need to distinguish between EGO engine as used on last gen consoles and the capabilities which were always in there and seen on PC.
As for Codies being unable to make a good game... Tens of thousands of DiRT Rally fans are going to disagree there. It was a suprise, but DiRT Rally really is a very good game. A proper brutal uncompromising rally sim by almost every measure, and nicely judged to appeal to a wide enough audience despite being a proper sim.
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