Playstation 3 System Update Thread

[FoolKiller]

now thats funny... but where is this "Advertised" feature for other OS. Its not on my launch 60gb box and I have never seen it "Advertised" anywhere... it was never a main feature to the system and not nearly as important than a clock on a Microwave. To not offer an alternative to it is the only bad thing I see.

Their own Web site:
http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html

There is more to the PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3™) computer entertainment system than you may have assumed. In addition to playing games, watching movies, listening to music, and viewing photos, you can use the PS3™ system to run the Linux operating system.

A clock is important on a microwave how? Exactly how does my being able to see the time of day affect my ability to heat food?

 

[Legendary]

The clock isn't so important as it is useful, same as the Linux OS. I use the clock on our microwave almost every time I am in the kitchen so it is definitely not useless, it is just a nice added feature.

 

[LaBounti]

Well I did not mean to say the clock was more important, just that its more useful than Linux on PS3, open platform is an option, the clock is a given. I use my Microwave's clock daily.

But the link you provided is not "Advertising".

 

[Robin]

The Other OS feature was promoted many times at various events both in print and speech form for years and years. The fact the console has an ability to do something is advertising enough. Functionality is in essence advertising but not in the traditional sense of TV adverts etc.

Your microwave clock is a feature which you purchased whether it was "advertised" or not and whether you value its functionality is a personal preferance. Im sure it mentions 'clock' in its manual!

Also I'm sure my manual (HK 60GB) talks about Other OS in it because it explains every function listed in the menus. Its still listed as a feature on Sony own website.

http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/3_15/settings/osinstall.html

Robin.

 

[Sharky.]

Foolkiller, it's fairly obvious you're wasting your time explaining anything to him.

You really think I'm so pigheaded that I refuse to see other peoples' points? Yes, I understand why people are pissed that Sony removed otherOS, but at the same time those people need to realise that even without otherOS a PS3 is still a PS3... which is what you bought. A Playstation 3. Not a Linux computer.

You know, my microwave has a clock and a kitchen timer too. If GE just came in and disconnected those features and then said, "It still cooks food, that's all it needs to do to be a microwave," would that be right?

The clock is hardware, so they can't take that away Kitchen timer, sure they could remove that. Although I think a better comparison is having the meat category removed from the auto-defrost function

 

[RACECAR]

Oh dear, this peace is not what all true warriors strive for.

 

[LaBounti]

http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/3_15/settings/osinstall.html

Robin.

Ok I did not know informing was the same as "advertising"......

The clock is hardware, so they can't take that away Kitchen timer, sure they could remove that. Although I think a better comparison is having the meat category removed from the auto-defrost function

Yeah there wouldn't be this discussion over it had than been used.

 

[FoolKiller]

Well I did not mean to say the clock was more important, just that its more useful than Linux on PS3, open platform is an option, the clock is a given. I use my Microwave's clock daily.

I rarely use the clock on mine because often my wife leaves the bottle sterilizer in there and it is flashing "END" all the time. Thus, because I don't use it it isn't important.

At least, that is the attitude I see from a lot of people acting like Other OS being removed the way it was is not a big deal.

But since you seem so determined that your opinion on a feature's usefulness is a measure of how bad it is that a company can take features away from a product you paid for: Would you be saying the same things if it was music or movie playback? Would you say the same thing if they did a firmware update and the only media category left in the XMB was Game (let's assume they refund video store purchases)? It's just a gaming console, right?

But the link you provided is not "Advertising".

So, someone who was trying to decide which console to buy two years ago and researching official specs and features wouldn't be using that information in their decision? If that feature played a part in their decision it is too bad because it wasn't a billboard or a TV commercial?

Do I need to go through and find all the Phil Harrison and Ken Kutaragi quotes that were done for PR marketing events?

Yes, I understand why people are pissed that Sony removed otherOS, but at the same time those people need to realise that even without otherOS a PS3 is still a PS3... which is what you bought. A Playstation 3. Not a Linux computer.

See what I said above. They can remove everything but the ability to play PlayStation 3 games and still fit your definition. Are you comfortable with that idea?

The clock is hardware, so they can't take that away Kitchen timer, sure they could remove that. Although I think a better comparison is having the meat category removed from the auto-defrost function

No, if they remove the clock hardware then my cook timer doesn't work. However, it is software that runs the clock itself. When not cooking the screen would just be blank.

 

[Sharky.]

See what I said above. They can remove everything but the ability to play PlayStation 3 games and still fit your definition. Are you comfortable with that idea?

I certainly wouldn't act like it's the end of the world. Sure, I'd feel a bit annoyed that they removed all that stuff, but I wouldn't be all "baaaaaaawwwww I can't do x y and z on my games console any more".

Why? I barely use any of my PS3's non-gaming features. I don't have anything that isn't game data stored on the hard drive, I don't use the music player (except for Burnout Paradise/Wipeout HD custom soundtracks), I don't have images stored on it, I don't have saved video. All I have are game saves, downloaded games (the aforementioned Burnout & Wipeout), game install data and around ten MP3s to use as a custom soundtrack. I only use the PS Store to either buy a game or grab DLC, I don't buy videos or whatever off it.

So yeah, Sony could remove music playback, image support, video playback, PS Store and I wouldn't be too fazed. The PS3 would still do what I wanted it to do and what I bought it for - play games. The loss of every other of the system's features would be a mild annoyance, but I still have other devices that can play music, video, images, have Linux installed onto them. So it's not like I'm permanently losing the ability to do this or that.

If people were really *that* insistent on still being able to keep otherOS they could've easily gone out and purchased another PS3 that they would use to play their games et al on, and have the existing unit dedicated to otherOS (and would not get updated). When there's a will, there's always a way... I guess people weren't that desperate to retain the otherOS capability.

 

[Touring Mars]

I never had any intention of using another OS on the PS3, but I have to say that I don't think it was a clever move by Sony to allow people to install other OS's and then take that functionality away (well, give users a choice between keeping that functionality or being able to access PSN). The PS3 can't be accurately described as 'just a games console'... the PS1 was 'just' a games console; the PS2 was a games console and a DVD player; the PS3 is a games console, a Blu-ray player, a DVD player, a digital storage medium, an internet access point, a digital TV tuner, a front-end for digital download stores (for movies, music and 3D environments) and it used to be a computer that you could run Linux on too (but alas, not any more). So, the definition of a PS3 as a games console is only part of the story. I forked out alot of money for a PS3 so I could have all of the abilities Sony said it would have, not simply to run games on... to be fair, though, it hasn't disappointed.

 

[FoolKiller]

I certainly wouldn't act like it's the end of the world. Sure, I'd feel a bit annoyed that they removed all that stuff, but I wouldn't be all "baaaaaaawwwww I can't do x y and z on my games console any more".

And you would have no problem with the fact that Sony has no issues with disabling functionality on something you supposedly own?

By the way, you do remember I am one of those who didn't ever use Other OS, right? I am not going, "baaaaaaawwwww I can't do x y and z on my games console any more."

Why? I barely use any of my PS3's non-gaming features.

Quoting myself here to make a point.

I rarely use the clock on mine because often my wife leaves the bottle sterilizer in there and it is flashing "END" all the time. Thus, because I don't use it it isn't important.

At least, that is the attitude I see from a lot of people acting like Other OS being removed the way it was is not a big deal.

Your, "I don't use it, so it isn't important," attitude is a tad annoying, almost elitist. Many people use all the features of the PS3, because I sure as heck didn't pay a multiple hundred dollar markup over the competition for Resistance. I bought it for its multimedia and Blu-Ray capabilities as well as the goal of playing Gran Turismo one day. If I lost all of that I would be truly upset, not just trying to explain the ethical ramifications of what Sony did.

If people were really *that* insistent on still being able to keep otherOS they could've easily gone out and purchased another PS3 that they would use to play their games et al on, and have the existing unit dedicated to otherOS (and would not get updated).

So, when a company does an ethically questionable act and upsets a certain group of their consumers you suggest the consumers fork over another $300 to that company?

When there's a will, there's always a way... I guess people weren't that desperate to retain the otherOS capability.

I know of some that still haven't updated (or so they claim) in the hope that the lawsuit will force Sony to bring it back and they won't lose their data.

 

[Sharky.]

but I have to say that I don't think it was a clever move by Sony to allow people to install other OS's and then take that functionality away

Out of curiosity, which do you think was more "stupid" (or less clever, whatever you want to call it)? Allowing people to install otherOS or then taking that capability away?


Also, I find it slightly ironic that people have no issue whatsoever with Sony removing otherOS and backwards-compatibility* from the Slim during design... it's a PS3 that can't do some things other PS3s can do! How is that fair? Because the features were removed during the dev stage it's perfectly OK? The manufacturer of your microwave could release a newer version of your particular microwave without a quick reheat function (and is otherwise exactly the same as the existing model), but it's perfectly fine because it was done during dev and not post-release?



* Mind you, that's why I kept my PS2 when I bought my 3 - but that's a similar situation to what I mentioned regarding buying a second PS3 to retain otherOS support.



@FK: I did say I'd be slightly miffed that they were poking around my system and deactivating stuff, but as long as they left the absolute core features I wouldn't throw my toys.

And how is removing otherOS ethically questionable? Companies should be entitled to do whatever they need to in order to maintain the integrity and security of their product, which is what I believe Sony was doing.

 

[FoolKiller]

Also, I find it slightly ironic that people have no issue whatsoever with Sony removing otherOS and backwards-compatibility* from the Slim during design... it's a PS3 that can't do some things other PS3s can do! How is that fair? Because the features were removed during the dev stage it's perfectly OK? The manufacturer of your microwave could release a newer version of your particular microwave without a quick reheat function (and is otherwise exactly the same as the existing model), but it's perfectly fine because it was done during dev and not post-release?

Um, because at that point anyone purchasing the Slim model knew they weren't getting it and weren't losing a feature they paid for. Removing it after someone has paid for it is completely different. How do you not see that?

And how is removing otherOS ethically questionable? Companies should be entitled to do whatever they need to in order to maintain the integrity and security of their product, which is what I believe Sony was doing.

Um, I paid for a system that include certain features. One of those features, which was part of the price, is now missing. I paid for something and they took it away without compensation.

But it brings about other interesting questions as well. To what degree do I own the system? What did I pay $600 for if I do not have a say in what functionality can be added or taken away without the loss of other functionality? Did I buy a machine that Sony can change in anyway they want? Do I only own the hardware?

 

[Touring Mars]

To add to what FK has just said, I reckon Sony were completely justified in releasing a newer PS3 with less functionality - it's not like anyone was forced to buy them - but I do have an issue with them taking functionality away from something that was purchased with that functionality in the first instance... that said, I am aware that use of the PS3/PSN is subject to one's agreement with the terms of use which presumably includes some kind of clause that basically allows Sony to do whatever they want with your PS3's firmware (and hence functionality). However, Sony sold these machines (the original PS3 anyway) on the basis that they could (and would) do what they said they would, and by altering that after purchase (or by forcing users to choose between keeping some functionality at the cost of losing some other functionality) they are on dubious ground IMO. What is ironic is that I have still to use my PS3 for what I mainly bought it for - playing GT5

 

[FoolKiller]

To add to what FK has just said, I reckon Sony were completely justified in releasing a newer PS3 with less functionality - it's not like anyone was forced to buy them - but I do have an issue with them taking functionality away from something that was purchased with that functionality in the first instance... that said, I am aware that use of the PS3/PSN is subject to one's agreement with the terms of use which presumably includes some kind of clause that basically allows Sony to do whatever they want with your PS3's firmware (and hence functionality). However, Sony sold these machines (the original PS3 anyway) on the basis that they could (and would) do what they said they would, and by altering that after purchase (or by forcing users to choose between keeping some functionality at the cost of losing some other functionality) they are on dubious ground IMO. What is ironic is that I have still to use my PS3 for what I mainly bought it for - playing GT5

Yeah, that Terms of Use is why I have yet to give an opinion on the legality of their actions. They may have been well within their legal rights, but that doesn't reduce the implication that it was uncool.

The lawsuit may be very interesting as it will have large implications on just where the limits of Terms of Use fall. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Sony just settle for the $5 million (a very small amount in a class action suit) in order to not risk having the Terms of Use process brought into question.

 

[Tornado]

Also, I find it slightly ironic that people have no issue whatsoever with Sony removing otherOS and backwards-compatibility* from the Slim during design... it's a PS3 that can't do some things other PS3s can do! How is that fair? Because the features were removed during the dev stage it's perfectly OK?

In a word, yes. It is perfectly alright to remove features from future revisions. It is annoying, but alright.
That is is also a completely different set of circumstances. Everyone knew that the Slim couldn't use Linux or play PS2 games, so Sony didn't promise anything in regards to those features on that hardware. On the Phats, though, Sony did promise those features on that hardware, including on the same developers blog that 3.21 was announced on only a couple of months before 3.21 came out. They then removed those features.

And how is removing otherOS ethically questionable? Companies should be entitled to do whatever they need to in order to maintain the integrity and security of their product, which is what I believe Sony was doing.

Because they are telling you that you can no longer use the features you paid a premium for the system to use and were advertised as being reasons for buying a Triple instead of a 360.

 

[LaBounti]

If that feature played a part in their decision it is too bad because it wasn't a billboard or a TV commercial?

Thats all I was trying to say, nothing more about its importance or it being removed. Just that its was never advertised to average consumers. That's all, I dont know where everything else came from. Not the fact of the matter but those who say it was "advertised" and nothing more than that. I don't disagree with anything you said.

 

[FoolKiller]

Thats all I was trying to say, nothing more about its importance or it being removed. Just that its was never advertised to average consumers. That's all, I dont know where everything else came from. Not the fact of the matter but those who say it was "advertised" and nothing more than that. I don't disagree with anything you said.

Their Web site is a marketing tool. It is advertised.

Or do you think someone at Sony actually said, "Let's waste money and put information on our Web site that no one will ever use in deciding to buy a PS3?"

Just because your definition of an advertisement is very traditional does not mean that other things don't work as advertising. Heck, just me telling a friend about how awesome my PS3 is is considered advertising.

 

[LaBounti]

Ok, you seem to be very excited over this to prove your points one way or another so I will just give in. I'm going by dictionary.com's definitions.

How can someone who doesn't know about it find out about it. If we did not spend our time on the internet reading web pages, forums and information we wouldn't even know about until we found out ourselves. They have a webpage yes, but you are not going to accidentally stumble upon it. Can we just agree to disagree on "this".

 

[drivatar]

They setup Blog Share and have not yet implemented one idea from it especially not the top 3 requested features, plus they quietly have erased all the 'bring back other OS' requests which they are currently getting sued for in one mega lawsuit.

What a poor move. 👎

I know of some that still haven't updated (or so they claim) in the hope that the lawsuit will force Sony to bring it back and they won't lose their data.

Now you know another one still running 3.15. I knew that the PS3 was able to run Linux long before release and installing Linux was one of the first tasks I did after buying my PS3.

I've bought a PS3 mainly for three reasons: GT5(P), free online gaming and OtherOS.
Now my PS3 is stuck with an unsupported OtherOS/Linux, unable to play online and unable to run GT5.
I'm out of words to describe my feelings about Sony for this move. 🤬

When GT5 arrives I'll have to buy another PS3 or do the bitter update.

 

[FoolKiller]

Ok, you seem to be very excited over this to prove your points one way or another so I will just give in. I'm going by dictionary.com's definitions.

I'm not getting excited about anything. I'm having a discussion, with an angle on advertising as someone who works for a PR research firm.

Can we just agree to disagree on "this."

Sure, since you think the disagreement is over semantics.

Would you then agree that at a minimum informed consumers that purposely did research in advance were given a raw deal?

 

[LaBounti]

Sure, since you think the disagreement is over semantics.

It was and nothing more. I never said anything about Sony being right or wrong, just the meaning of advertising.

 

[LaBounti]

It seems there is an update, a small one 3.42. I'm guessing this evaporates the usb key mod. No details on the update.

 

[Han_the_Dragon]

From what they posted in the US blog this updade includes new security features, so probably it's that...

 

[marchi]

Either way idiots are going to download the patch without even thinking, which is going to be hilarious when they get their USB key and it doesn't work.

 

[01GTP]

Are you saying if we do the update that our USB drives won't work in the PS3 anymore?

I'm not sure what is meant by USB key.....?

 

[marchi]

Are you saying if we do the update that our USB drives won't work in the PS3 anymore?

I'm not sure what is meant by USB key.....?

Talking about the USB hack that was sent out a few weeks ago.

 

[01GTP]

Talking about the USB hack that was sent out a few weeks ago.

Never heard of it so I have no reason for alarm. 👍

Thanks.

 

[Ibonibo]

yes he talked about the jailbreak for the ps3. The firmware will block it.
Sony has well played their turn
USB ports will work, no worry

Just hope it doesn't get a firmware war like on the psp

I suspect sometime in the futur Sony will modify the hardware so the usb can not be taken as backdoor. (hackers modded the Sony USB to clean bad firmwares).

I suspect the updates doesn't contain anything useful for legit users?

The 3d update comes in october (announced at IFA)

 

[Blitz187]

There is a new hack by the way where you have to use a rooted Android telephone. Kind of risky, but they say it works... So I think Sony will have to bring another update soon Although this hack works with the USB ports as well... so it could be that this method gets eliminated right away as well.