[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

[mister dog]

My day has been made

74.000.000 Trumps! (But i guess each person does it like 20 times)

 

[Kitten]

74.000.000 Trumps! (But i guess each person does it like 20 times)

Uhm i did it a 100+

 

[Touring Mars]

Your biggest worry is that, as Franklin and Jefferson desired, he will invade and conquer Canada.

Niagara please...

 

[Dotini]

Nationalism & populism are rather nebulous concepts when it comes to policy.

Let me explain it for you.

Nationalism means putting US interests ahead of the interest of foreigners.

Populism means putting the interests of the commons ahead of those of the elite.

 

[Joel]

I was speaking about the American liberals I know Dotini. It's hard to know what Trump would actually do if elected - his most outspoken position is on immigration & I suspect this is what has drawn the most support towards him.

ISIS- "I'm gonna bomb them!" "I'm gonna build an army so great nobody will even touch us!"

Jobs- "I'm gonna bring the jobs back here!"

Veterans- "We're gonna take care of 'em!"

This is basically his whole campaign. It's just platitudes that allow the listener to insert whatever their preferred course of action would be. If you care deeply about any of those issues you can just project any of your own pet solutions on to the bluster.

And before anyone starts yes I am aware that other politicians like to use vague slogans too.

 

[ukfan758]

ISIS- "I'm gonna bomb them!" "I'm gonna build an army so great nobody will even touch us!"

Jobs- "I'm gonna bring the jobs back here!"

Veterans- "We're gonna take care of 'em!"

This is basically his whole campaign. It's just platitudes that allow the listener to insert whatever their preferred course of action would be. If you care deeply about any of those issues you can just project any of your own pet solutions on to the bluster.

You're forgetting the wall.

 

[Biggles]

Let me explain it for you.

Nationalism means putting US interests ahead of the interest of foreigners.

Populism means putting the interests of the commons ahead of those of the elite.

Trump is one of the elite & his entire life has been devoted to promoting the interests of the elite ... which is to say himself. He talks about "making America great again" but doesn't provide any concrete proposals as to how this is going to be accomplished.

 

[CodeRedR51]

You're forgetting the wall.

Saw something yesterday that said Mexico should agree to build the wall so they can keep Trump out of Mexico.

 

[squadops]

Trump is one of the elite & his entire life has been devoted to promoting the interests of the elite ... which is to say himself. He talks about "making America great again" but doesn't provide any concrete proposals as to how this is going to be accomplished.

Would you rather have no elite? Don't get me wrong as I don't want him as our leader, just sayin.

 

[Biggles]

Would you rather have no elite? Don't get me wrong as I don't want him as our leader, just sayin.

I have nothing, in principle, against elites - ie. people who are particularly good at what they do. I was responding to our friend Dotini:

Populism means putting the interests of the commons ahead of those of the elite.

Trump has never previously shown any interest in the "commons". His populism appears solely as a political ploy to further his own self-agrandisement.

 

[squadops]

I agree, and he is a joke, I'll stick with my assertion that he is not electable.

 

[Dotini]

It would all appear to be a giant hoax, a perfect alien plot the voters have bought into, hook, line and sinker. We are on the fast path to perdition and we're taking you with us!



Edit: Great article on why people like Trump:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/08/donald-trump-voters/401408/

 

[Rich S]

So yesterday pastor robert jeffress who heads a mega church type setup in dallas endorsed Trump. He has some books out. Their titled: countdown apocalypse, perfect ending, When forgiveness doesn't make sense, etc.

 

[Formula1269]

Trump is one of the elite & his entire life has been devoted to promoting the interests of the elite ... which is to say himself. He talks about "making America great again" but doesn't provide any concrete proposals as to how this is going to be accomplished.

That's because what Trump really means is, "Make America white again."

 

[Dotini]

Trump is merely a vehicle for the fears and aspirations of the voters. This election is not about Trump; it is about the people. Trump is the product of the poor choices the voters have made in the past.

 

[Dennisch]

Trump is merely a vehicle for the fears and aspirations of the voters. This election is not about Trump; it is about the people. Trump is the product of the poor choices the voters have made in the past.

The poor options that were presented to the voters.

 

[Dotini]

The poor options that were presented to the voters.

Yup - all of 'em a bunch of empty hats and stuffed shirts.

It does no good to arrantly rail about the candidates. This has been building for a long time. We have deep problems in the culture and in the institutions.

One of the institutions on the cusp of implosion is of course the Republican party.

 

[squadops]

I'd say in general the people get what they want, the problem is the people

 

[DK]

Donald Trump believes that churches shouldn't lose tax exemption for getting involved in politics.

 

[squadops]

Why is that an issue?

 

[DK]

There's this thing called "separation of church and state", which the USA's constitution tries to uphold.

 

[squadops]

Well maybe you need to define involved

.....

It is a non issue and a non story tbh, smoke smoke.

What is the title people such as Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton etc use? oh that's right... Are they tax exempt? I can't see those clowns dropping a penny

 

[Sanji Himura]

There's this thing called "separation of church and state", which the USA's constitution tries to uphold.

Which is factually wrong to begin with. The first amendment is supposed to prevent Congress from endorsing a religion, not preventing churches from participating in politics. Where it came into legal parlance was in the case Everson v. Board of Education, where Justice Hugo Black wrote, "In the words of Thomas Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state." Where he actually got his words from is a 1801 letter that Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptist Association, not from any part of the constitution itself (though admittedly one could argue that Article VI's ban on religious tests for candidates could have been used, but the case was from the FDR Rubberstamp era of the court.)

 

[squadops]

If the majority of libs had their way, they'd pronounce any religious type as mentally ill and have em locked up rofl

Side note, have we ever had a President who did not claim a religion? I'd think not.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Hillary Clinton is projected to win South Carolina. Some polls had her up by as much as 30 points, and it appears that those polls are on target.

UPDATE: Clinton is up by 49 points with 74% of the precincts reporting.

 

[squadops]

A pretend socialist such as Obama is one thing, a true socialist such as Sanders is another eh?

 

[mustafur]

Sanders Black vote was decimated at South Carolina.

 

[Swagger897]

Which is factually wrong to begin with.

So how then do you describe a 'secular state'?

 

[squadops]

The U.S. is a secular state because the government does not force a religion on it's people, it's not hard to understand.

 

[Biggles]

Yup - all of 'em a bunch of empty hats and stuffed shirts.

It does no good to arrantly rail about the candidates. This has been building for a long time. We have deep problems in the culture and in the institutions.

One of the institutions on the cusp of implosion is of course the Republican party.

I pity the poor writers of House of Cards, they've been totally upstaged by real life. The GOP nomination process has gone beyond parody to pure farce. The "deep problems in the culture & in the institutions" have primarily to do with self-delusion. If you tell yourself for decades how great you are, you're bound to end up disappointed at some point. Trump's success is based on upping the ante on the self-delusion & blaming illegal immigrants & the "Establishment" for the disappointment.

Realistically: after WWII the US held a dominant position in the world, economically, politically, culturally, technologically & militarily. The white American working class & middle class benefited from this. As Europe rebuilt after the war it started to catch up with the US economically. Then the Asian countries, first Japan, then Taiwan & South Korea & finally China, India & the others started to catch up. As a result the privileged position of the American working/middle class gradually eroded - they were now having to compete globally with workers in countries with a much lower standard of living who were willing to work for much less. American corporations inevitably moved production to countries with lower labour costs & increasingly Asian companies themselves began to emerge as strong competitors. The very wealthy - holders of capital - are in a position to benefit from globalization, the average working & middle class American not so much.

The GOP solution of lower taxes & de-regulation aren't going to make much difference in this scenario. Trump's solution of building a wall to keep out illegal immigrants & "winning" - is meaningless & protectionism at this point could be disastrous. The Democrats solution of taxing the wealthy would only have a marginal effect. Education, training & the pursuit of new technologies are the only hope for US workers, but even that has to be put up against the reality that previously underdeveloped countries like China & India now have an increasingly better educated & trained workforce & access to the same technology.