Potato...

[Adam41]

After about a week we'll get over these changes and there won't be any issue. The physics have changed multiple times and I can't even remember what cars felt like all that time ago. Far as I'm concerned it won't make a significant difference to how races play out. Driver ability plays the strongest role and no matter what changes occur, the best drivers will still win. And if you aren't pleased, play something else.

I've never rolled my eyes so much at one post.

 

[VBR]

...the cars just don't feel fun to drive...

I think that statement sums up the 1.39 physics changes for me. While I like the fact that road cars, especially on Comfort/Sport Tyres, no longer have ludicrous amounts of trailing brake oversteer on corner entry, it's killed all the fun of driving cars like the Gr.4 Genesis. And, what with the already abysmal FFB (that's getting worse IMO), I really don't want to drive in this game anymore...

 

[splitwindow]

As a contribution to this conversation id like to hear from anyone commenting how they are testing.

I've only ever used one acid test.
After a BoP or physics change I always get in the gr3 FT-1 with BoP on and do 20 odd laps of Blue Moon Bay.
Dead easy to get consistent results and feel the changes on a stop start, flat out, and a lift and feather corner in one quick lap.

 

[joost_wentink]

When cars such as the Ferrari P4 and the Cobra are popping wheelies like they do now, I'd say the physics need some tuning..

 

[ShiftingGears]

I don't think its good practice to implement physics changes mid FIA Manufacturers Season.

 

[fastone371]

Thanks whiteusagi, your translation sheds light on things...so the video is not a comparison of driving styles, rather skill levels.

If I could share only 1 in-car video with PD to illustrate my desire for physics simulation, this one of the Alfa may be it.

I have not tried the Vulcan in 1.39 yet but to me it looks like he is driving the Vulcan in 1.38

I think the new physics are extremely arcade like, just too much unrealistic rear grip on corner exit and too much push from apex to exit.

 

[Slapped]

After about a week we'll get over these changes and there won't be any issue. The physics have changed multiple times and I can't even remember what cars felt like all that time ago. Far as I'm concerned it won't make a significant difference to how races play out. Driver ability plays the strongest role and no matter what changes occur, the best drivers will still win. And if you aren't pleased, play something else.

Thanks for the tip, Sunshine. I cannot believe I didn’t think of that, and I do need a bit more space on my PS4 for stuff that I do actually want to play.

Why doesn’t this forum have a dislike, or downvote, or Clown button?

 

[VBR]

Why doesn’t this forum have a dislike, or downvote, or Clown button?

The "Ignore" button is a pretty good way of with dealing with the ever-growing Idiocracy. My ignore list, she can eat undesirables all day long...

 

[Max__apex]

Sim racing is always a trade off with different aspects

 

[Slapped]

The "Ignore" button is a pretty good way of with dealing with the ever-growing Idiocracy. My ignore list, she can eat undesirables all day long...

Very true, but the problem with the "Ignore" button is that I wouldn't get to see further examples of utter f'wittery from those involved, and I've always had a morbid curiosity for that

 

[zzz_pt]

Wound't it be fun if all the top drivers made a gentlemen's agreement to not choose Toyota or not race Toyota on FIA? Unfortunately, it's impossible to change manuf. atm so whoever chose Toyota is at in a class of their own.

I chose Toyota (86 + Supra) but only for Top 10s when I feel like I can/want to do it. I won't do a single race.

 

[dabz343]

i think they've forgot to raise in the same amount the LSD effect . The result is that a stock acceleration LSD at 40 is not enough to transfer some motricity to the exterior rear wheel of the car inducing a natural oversteer to point the front wheels out the corner with a good eagerness.

Interesting observation, will have to play with the diff settings and perhaps even tweak the camber/toe/rebound/ABR to perfect that rotation on exits.

physics experts in this forum are doing a great service in educate me in finer points of vehicle dynamics. Thank you.

it is nice and informative to see the description of those who know what they are talking about.

We are all here to learn...I think...and I join you in thanking all those that have helped me as well. If you are into learning about the underlying principles and mechanics of driving clean and fast, Scott's introductory content is a great place to start. 👍

 

[Haitauer]

Hmm.. few laps and a race (rsr @ brands) i think i like it. There is more grip and grass is a joke now, but i do have plenty of turn in oversteer and exit understeer is not too bad. Feels like there is more weight transfer or something. Lifting of brake slowly + a downshift turns the tail around. And could it be the same weight trasfer or tyre load change that gives the grip on exit..

 

[Suzumiya]

I like how the copout post has the most likes. Just goes to show we have a great defense force here raring to go full of C rated and B rated drivers

 

[sumbrownkid]

How dare someone likes something I don’t like rawr rawr rawr.

 

[dabz343]

And could it be the same weight trasfer or tyre load change that gives the grip on exit..

This is the way I think of unpacking weight transfer vs tyre load (or slip angle). Weight transfer is the overall leaning characteristic, while the slip angle is the detailed squirming sensation under heavy load (the delicate balancing sensation that happens on the limit). Both are related of course when it comes to traction.

Said differently, if you can imagine running a high-profile and a low-profile tire on the same setup, you will notice how different tires behave under the same load. Might be interesting to try different compounds and see if GTS has modeled this credibly.

 

[Haitauer]

This is the way I think of unpacking weight transfer vs tyre load (or slip angle). Weight transfer is the overall leaning characteristic, while the slip angle is the detailed squirming sensation under heavy load (the delicate balancing sensation that happens on the limit). Both are related of course when it comes to traction.

Said differently, if you can imagine running a high-profile and a low-profile tire on the same setup, you will notice how different tires behave under the same load. Might be interesting to try different compounds and see if GTS has modeled this credibly.

This balancing is something i feel in gts now. As throttle/brake balancing changes the weight transfer i can feel the slip angle or oversteer/understeer change. Going at the limit just a slight change in throttle/brake changes the slip angle just over or under optimal and i can still gain back the traction if i push the car over the limit. I think i like it - it is more forgiving i give you that, but feels more intuitive.

And that power understeer at corner exit of the RSR is irl characteristic of that car. Coming from a guy who drives a RSR for a living..

 

[Groundfish]

Interesting observation, will have to play with the diff settings and perhaps even tweak the camber/toe/rebound/ABR to perfect that rotation on exits.






We are all here to learn...I think...and I join you in thanking all those that have helped me as well. If you are into learning about the underlying principles and mechanics of driving clean and fast, Scott's introductory content is a great place to start. 👍

Great posted video. I used his track guide to garner a top ten qual time with the 356 at Brands Indy. My first ever showing on my regions top ten.

All-I only just updated last night late. I drove some this morning-keeping the same combo I was driving pre update which was Brands.
The hairpin is much better now in the mr I was using. It doesn’t snap oversteer as easily when bringing in the power on exit.
To me it seems the physics are more forgiving, but I haven’t driven enough across classes to really put my finger on it. My guess is that this update will limit wheel users advantage somewhat in certain situations that I like to take advantage of...I’m not sure this is good for me...
So far I can say I don’t like the forgiveness of the grass when you hang part of a tire off at Brands.
I like the way you can apply power correctly on hairpins in mr though. The game imo has always been touchy about that...
The jury is still out for me. It drives well still, I just need more seat time to say anything definitive. The progressive grip loss has been good for a couple updates now, the weight transfer stuff has been good...
We are on rm tires for Brands which should be quite sticky...I need to do more extensive testing. I can say though that my friends list qual times all went down a fair amount since the beginning of the week and a short session today got me down another three tenths. So more grip for RM tires...More forgiving to get on throttle early on exit...
I’m torn, I am not sure about this...The hairpins behavior before was a problem. It shouldn’t have been THAT hard to get power down, the rs01 squirted a ton before with even partial throttle anywhere near the power. Sweet spot in hairpins...
It was unrealistically squirrelly imo. I think now though that high speed corners are made too easy...
The jury is definitely out on this latest change...
It still drives good, but it’s definitely more forgiving which is going to maybe make it hard for better drivers to separate themselves.
I need more seat time...

 

[Magog]

Remember when you could adjust the weight balance of cars? Good times.

 

[Haitauer]

Similar situation

In 1.39
No problem


In 1.38
Problem

 

[MisterWaffles]

So now that I've really had time to sink my teeth into this new change I have come to the conclusion that the FIA should cancel their partnership with PD and give the online championship to someone who actually knows how cars work. Maybe they can make an official WEC game or something. It's completely inexcusable to be fiddling around with and messing up fundamental parts of the game in the middle of an official competition where everyone is already locked into a choice of car. At the very least, the manufacturer selections should be re-opened at a new physics change or they just shouldn't touch it at all. I'd be more than happy with the latter.

As for the changes itself, cars in this game just aren't fun to drive anymore which is a big problem in this sort of game. Since you aren't punished whatsoever for having bad throttle control, you can just turn your brain off and not have to worry about putting in any effort to exhibit any control over your car. Not to mention I used to have fun just sliding the tail of my car around out of corners, but you can't do that anymore.

So yeah to summarize: cars aren't fun to drive, the livery editor is now the main draw and aliens should boycott the FIA series. PD have been pretty quick to do 180s in the past in response to criticism from top players, so I hope they can effect some sort of change here. All the respect to PD and everything they do for us, but this just isn't good at all.

A bit of an unrelated side note, but this is the second game that I used to enjoy a lot that I lost some interest in this week. The other was Smash Ultimate when they nerfed my favourite character Pichu into the ground. I wish I had myself a Wayback machine right about now.

 

[dabz343]

It's completely inexcusable to be fiddling around with and messing up fundamental parts of the game in the middle of an official competition where everyone is already locked into a choice of car.

PD obviously understands that these decisions are excused, on a regular basis by their legions of loyal fans...

Since you aren't punished whatsoever for having bad throttle control, you can just turn your brain off and not have to worry about putting in any effort to exhibit any control over your car.

Really? Are we back to GT6 physics promoting unrealistic inputs?

 

[ScottPuss20]

I've never rolled my eyes so much at one post.

Thanks for the tip, Sunshine. I cannot believe I didn’t think of that, and I do need a bit more space on my PS4 for stuff that I do actually want to play.

Why doesn’t this forum have a dislike, or downvote, or Clown button?

Bloody hell, not even a constructive criticism? Yikes. Those are some very harsh comments indeed. Especially from you Suswillo. So what, are you going to blame the game because of your driving ability? Ha! I think you've missed the point completely mate.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

After some more testing yesterday, I take my word from a few pages back. There's definitely a major change, and I can honestly say that the new physics are not great.

Just for reference, I drove the following (all with T-GT, all aids off except ABS default):
- 911 GT3 RS endurance GT League at Tokyo South (RS tyre)
- Pug Gr.4 at Autopolis (RH) (Daily A)
- RB Jr at Suzuka (RH) (Daily C)
- A whole lot of cars at Yamagiwa (SS) (911 GT3 RS, XBOW, S-FR Racing, F50, 4C Gr3 Road, Citroen GT, Ford GT40, 458, Huracan, Amuse S2000, McLaren F1) for FIA Nations
- 458 Gr.3 at Maggiore for FIA Manu (RM, RS)
- AMG GT3 arcade race at Goodwood (RH)
- GT86 GRMN drift at Suzuka East (CH) (my baseline drift practice combo)

As you can see that covers a whole variety of spectrum of cars, tires and tracks. The overarching feeling is that there is more understeer in general, but especially from apex to exit when on power (which is corroborated by top drivers such as Aderm and Tidgney). I couldn't feel more entry oversteer that some people described, but my driving style likes a pointy nose on entry so maybe that masks it. This in itself isn't a problem, but the driving also feels a lot more numb and vague now. The only way I can describe it is as if the tyres and track has been coated with plastic cling wrap. The feeling of driving on ice is back and for me it's very reminiscent of GT6 physics where the fastest way is to rotate the car on entry, point the nose towards the exit and pin the throttle to drift out, making ridiculous slip angles in the process (even in racecars). The 458 Gr.3, which I have done many many miles in the last few weeks to acclimatise for this FIA season, now feels lazy and uninspiring to drive. Whereas previously it was tricky, but at least there's a sense of urgency and directness like a proper race car. Now it's just bleh.

The previous physics, while not perfect, was a lot more "dynamic" and intuitive to drive. This is just a regression and takes the fun out of driving anything in GTS at the moment. It boggles my mind why PD did this change mid season for Nations and just before the official Manu season. Completely unneeded. Sure some cars had problematic handling before (R8 LMS, Huracan, 458 Gr.3 to name a few), but it can be solved with proper suspension and LSD tuning. Not an overhaul of physics that breaks every other car in return. Instead of fixing BOP and tyre wear, or making matchmaking or the points system better, they keep wasting their time going back and forth with useless physics changes. What is the goal Kaz? Because it sure as hell isn't making the game more realistic.

If I have the money and can speak Japanese, I would personally fly out to Japan tomorrow and sit Kaz down with a copy of Assetto Corsa Competizione. They could learn a thing or two about proper simulation and driving feel from Kunos.

 

[Woodybobs]

And if you aren't pleased, play something else

Bloody hell, not even a constructive criticism?

In fairness, such a dismissive statement doesn't deserve constructive criticism.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Just tested a few cars again for an upcoming race, and basically everything feels like it suddenly became front wheel drive, except at very low speeds. The corner exit feel also seems very artificial, kinda bruteforced. It's like something is inverted in the code when you break traction, like it kills lateral grip only and transfers that grip to longitudinal, effectively limiting slipping and forcing the axle to just go straight forward.

Yes, I'm saying this behavior may actually be a bug and not an intended feature.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

At first I thought that the physics changes were arbitrary and I really didn't care. Then I accidentally entered a GR3 race on Tsukuba with my 911 and realized that they pretty much sucked all of the fun out of that car. Now I have to enter, brake and throttle inputs at the same time to rotate the car and to keep the car from under-steering off of the course. It drives more like a Subaru WRX than a porsche now.

 

[Spirit]

As much as I want to say that the game is fine and everyone is just whining, the most recent physics update has really rubbed me the wrong way. Playing on a controller, the understeer is straight up unbearable. My favorite car in the GT3 category, the AMG, is now a straight up nightmare to drive. I genuinely believe I'm going to break my analog stick trying to get the thing to turn. The AMG isn't the only car either, I just use it as an example since it's the one I have the most experience driving.

It's gotten to the point where this, along with the extra front-end tire wear that pad users experience, has made the game not fun to play, nevermind try to do Sport Mode and league races. I genuinely hope PD can figure this out sooner than later, so I can get back to enjoying the game.

 

[ARTAsean]

Keep crying about the physics, guys, and PD will reverse it - just like they did with that idiotic clutch/shifter update. We all love this game, blah blah blah, but that doesn’t mean PD won’t get it wrong every once in awhile.

 

[MisterWaffles]

Keep crying about the physics, guys, and PD will reverse it - just like they did with that idiotic clutch/shifter update. We all love this game, blah blah blah, but that doesn’t mean PD won’t get it wrong every once in awhile.

Well that's the dream. Get enough people crying about it (hopefully some high-profile ones too , Imagine Igor getting on this.) and then we can all go back to enjoying the game the way we were before the changes occurred.

I'm never going to completely hate or stop playing Gran Turismo because of the attachment to the series I've built up over these many years of playing, but sometimes we just need to stamp our feet down and let the developers know that this isn't what we want and there's a better way. Unfortunately it seems the only way to do this with PD is by crying loud enough (but hopefully not in a stupid way like these Spa-hopefuls).