Presidential Election: 2012

[shmogt]

How is Ron Paul not running away with the Republican nomination?

He's the only one that hasn't made a rock look smarter than the party.

Lol I know it boggles my mind as well. Last I heard he had 8%

 

[cullenand]

How is Ron Paul not running away with the Republican nomination?

He's the only one that hasn't made a rock look smarter than the party.

I know, it shocks me also. Its probably because people are not smart enough to understand his views and/or its because hes an old white man that looks kind of funny.

 

[Strittan]

I know, it shocks me also. Its probably because people are not smart enough to understand his views and/or its because hes an old white man that looks kind of funny.

This.

It's America after all.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

This.

It's America after all.

Just cause it's America isn't saying anything, thanks for being offensive:tup:

I guess I must not be very American like if I want Ron Paul or Jon Huntsman to be the GOP canidate. I and others on here have stated why they aren't in the lead, go back and read and we wont keep chasing our tails!

It's simple you have a propoganda machine (media) churning out what they want, it is much more news worthy to show Perry as a joke, rather than some of the best clips for arguing on topics that really affect Americans. The media knows who makes sense, but then again the media is owned by companies who have a particular idea in mind and only one person fills that. You have MSNBC acting as if they're OWS's friends when in reality OWS doesn't like Obama they just want honesty and freedom, but MSNBC always has to put that Obama twist in. Why not when they're owned by GE whose chairman works with Obama on a few things that he and his company benefit from at the end of the day. Oh and speaking of dems what about Pelosi and things she did to benefit her husband that had a hand in Visa...a deep hand I should say.

However, I can't be unjust because the Republicans aren't better by a long shot. They promote the idea of letting the big companies do what the want with America yet these same companies make us look like a joke which then hurts the free trade on the rest of the world. Romney will tell you though businesses are people too, I never met a person that is more than one person. Oh and then we have the wars and the military budget, let's not cut it down, if we did the boogie man (terrorism) is gonna get us, even if we're the most powerful and technological.

At the end of the day though the party is more important than the people. The party comes first and John Doe's family comes second. The problem is America eats up the media like a McDonald's quarter pounder with cheese (inhales), they like it but don't see the lies and half truths it gives. It glams up and makes it look nice, but at the end of the day it's still moving you from what is right and honest.

 

[Strittan]

Just cause it's America isn't saying anything, thanks for being offensive:tup:

Lol, I knew someone would take offense. Did I say all Americans are not smart? No. However, it does say something. Why do you think George W Bush was re-elected in 2004? Because most Americans are probably equally or less smart than him.

Again, that doesn't mean everyone in America is stupid though.

 

[Famine]

Lol, I knew someone would take offense. Did I say all Americans are not smart? No. However, it does say something. Why do you think George W Bush was re-elected in 2004? Because most Americans are probably equally or less smart than him.

Again, that doesn't mean everyone in America is stupid though.

Then it's nothing to do with Americans - the majority of people aren't all that smart, though I'd suggest that the average American is probably at least slightly smarter than the average person from a third world country with no schooling. Probably slightly older too.

Quite why you decided to bring nationality into it escapes me.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Then it's nothing to do with Americans - the majority of people aren't all that smart, though I'd suggest that the average American is probably at least slightly smarter than the average person from a third world country with no schooling. Probably slightly older too.

Quite why you decided to bring nationality into it escapes me.

This. ^

 

[Strittan]

Quite why you decided to bring nationality into it escapes me.

Because the thread is about the US presidential election? Sorry, but I really can't picture someone like George W being elected anywhere in Europe, but that's me, and I may be wrong.

 

[Famine]

Because the thread is about the US presidential election?

That's not an excuse for casual xenophobia. People not being bright enough to understand something is not caused by them being American, but by not being bright enough.

Sorry, but I really can't picture someone like George W being elected anywhere in Europe, but that's me, and I may be wrong.

Don't suppose you noticed all of the European economies falling into a quagmire through mismanagement recently did you? How about George Papandreou, the Greek PM who managed to preside over a regime that collected less than a tenth of taxation owed to it by the people on whom it levied them? And if it's out-and-out buffoonery you want, try Silvio Berlusconi on for size - his idiotic quotes list makes Bush look like Bohr.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

That's not an excuse for casual xenophobia. People not being bright enough to understand something is not caused by them being American, but by not being bright enough.



Don't suppose you noticed all of the European economies falling into a quagmire through mismanagement recently did you? How about George Papandreou, the Greek PM who managed to preside over a regime that collected less than a tenth of taxation owed to it by the people on whom it levied them? And if it's out-and-out buffoonery you want, try Silvio Berlusconi on for size - his idiotic quotes list makes Bush look like Bohr.

Once again ^ this. You(Strittan) seem to think that Bush is the most stupid world leader ever, when really the media creating sensationalism made it bigger than what it was. Don't get me wrong he was bad, but no worse than his father. As far as being elected twice, people saw that Kerry was probably going to do worse, also if you look at the time frame it wasn't that long after 9/11 and not too many people were angry about Iraq yet. So when you look at all that you get the picture of why he was re-elected.

 

[Strittan]

That's not an excuse for casual xenophobia. People not being bright enough to understand something is not caused by them being American, but by not being bright enough.

True thing. My mistake.

Don't suppose you noticed all of the European economies falling into a quagmire through mismanagement recently did you? How about George Papandreou, the Greek PM who managed to preside over a regime that collected less than a tenth of taxation owed to it by the people on whom it levied them? And if it's out-and-out buffoonery you want, try Silvio Berlusconi on for size - his idiotic quotes list makes Bush look like Bohr.

Also true. My bad again.

though I'd suggest that the average American is probably at least slightly smarter than the average person from a third world country with no schooling.

By the way, I'd suggest this^ is more offensive than what I ever said. At least I didn't say "The average from this country is probably smarter than the average from that country", and is Sweden really a third world country nowadays? You also said that like it's a bad thing, while I think it's rather practical.

The 'no schooling' part I'll just ignore for now, hardly know what you mean by that anyway.

 

[hampus_dh]

Once again ^ this. You(Strittan) seem to think that Bush is the most stupid world leader ever, when really the media creating sensationalism made it bigger than what it was. Don't get me wrong he was bad, but no worse than his father. As far as being elected twice, people saw that Kerry was probably going to do worse, also if you look at the time frame it wasn't that long after 9/11 and not too many people were angry about Iraq yet. So when you look at all that you get the picture of why he was re-elected.

No he really was the dumbest president to ever get elected, in the history of mankind from the past to all eternity. Nobody will ever come close.

Silvio the prime minister was an idiot no doubt but he´s stephen hawking´s compared to Bush.

 

[Famine]

By the way, I'd suggest this^ is more offensive than what I ever said. At least I didn't say "The average from this country is probably smarter than the average from that country", and is Sweden really a third world country nowadays? You also said that like it's a bad thing, while I think it's rather practical.

The 'no schooling' part I'll just ignore for now, hardly know what you mean by that anyway.

Who said anything about Sweden?

I said that the average American - most people in the US complete high school and there is a 98% adult literacy rate - is probably smarter than the average person in a third world country that has no schooling... What does Sweden have to do with anything?

No he really was the dumbest president to ever get elected, in the history of mankind from the past to all eternity. Nobody will ever come close.

Silvio the prime minister was an idiot no doubt but he´s stephen hawking´s compared to Bush.

I don't recall Bush asking, on stage, in public, three female leaders of industry if they would like to "go bunga bunga" with him.

Berlusconi was as stupid as Bush, a liar like Blair, a sexual predator like Clinton, a cheat like Nixon and more corrupt than even Hosni Mubarak. He even passed laws preventing himself from being prosecuted for criminality. Quite why he went unchallenged for so long escapes me.

 

[Strittan]

Who said anything about Sweden?

I said that the average American - most people in the US complete high school and there is a 98% adult literacy rate - is probably smarter than the average person in a third world country that has no schooling... What does Sweden have to do with anything?

Nevermind, I just thought you were referring to where I come from since I was the one criticizing USA.

Sorry for bringing the thread off topic guys. I'm done now.

 

[hampus_dh]

Who said anything about Sweden?

I said that the average American - most people in the US complete high school and there is a 98% adult literacy rate - is probably smarter than the average person in a third world country that has no schooling... What does Sweden have to do with anything?

I don't recall Bush asking, on stage, in public, three female leaders of industry if they would like to "go bunga bunga" with him.

Berlusconi was as stupid as Bush, a liar like Blair, a sexual predator like Clinton, a cheat like Nixon and more corrupt than even Hosni Mubarak. He even passed laws preventing himself from being prosecuted for criminality. Quite why he went unchallenged for so long escapes me.

No sorry, whatever Silvio did it will never come close to Bush.

Had they dome an IQ test Silvio would have gotten 70ish (lightly retarded)

Bush would have gotten minus...

 

[Famine]

No sorry, whatever Silvio did it will never come close to Bush.

Had they dome an IQ test Silvio would have gotten 70ish (lightly retarded)

Bush would have gotten minus...

Being a relatively unaccomplished public speaker is one thing - Bush's gaffes all came from him stumbling over his teleprompter or struggling to come up with witty answers on the spot. Being stupid enough to sexually harass women in public is quite a different matter. Oh, also being on trial 23 times including drug trafficking, mafia collusion, bribery and paying an underage girl for sex

Incidentally, Bush graduated from Yale and Harvard with a BA and an MBA. What a retard!

 

[hampus_dh]

Being a relatively unaccomplished public speaker is one thing - Bush's gaffes all came from him stumbling over his teleprompter or struggling to come up with witty answers on the spot. Being stupid enough to sexually harass women in public is quite a different matter. Oh, also being on trial 23 times including drug trafficking, mafia collusion, bribery and paying an underage girl for sex

Incidentally, Bush graduated from Yale and Harvard with a BA and an MBA. What a retard!

Yea you can graduate wherever you like when your dad was on his way to being a president.

I guess we have a different meaning on stupid. Bush doesn´t do stupid ****, stupid stuff is what normal people do from time to time, Bush was just retarded from the get go.

This is the dumbest man to ever set foot on this planet, nobody, not even Silvio even comes close.




Please point out the difference between those two and this one.

They are equally as stupid, the difference is one of them was the president of a country not once but TWICE.

 

[Famine]

Yea you can graduate wherever you like when your dad was on his way to being a president.

Got any evidence that he didn't graduate from two of the world's most prestigious universities on merit?

Didn't think so.

I guess we have a different meaning on stupid. Bush doesn´t do stupid ****, stupid stuff is what normal people do from time to time, Bush was just retarded from the get go.

This is the dumbest man to ever set foot on this planet, nobody, not even Silvio even comes close.

I like how you illustrate this by posting videos of Bush stumbling over his teleprompter or struggling to come up with witty answers on the spot...

Being a relatively unaccomplished public speaker is one thing - Bush's gaffes all came from him stumbling over his teleprompter or struggling to come up with witty answers on the spot.

I'll just remind you again of Berlusconi...

​

And let's not forget:

Being stupid enough to sexually harass women in public is quite a different matter. Oh, also being on trial 23 times including drug trafficking, mafia collusion, bribery and paying an underage girl for sex

And he was president of his country not once, not twice but THREE times!

 

[Strittan]

This thread is not about Italy, but am I the only one who gets confused by Italy's government? Seems like they have both a president and a prime minister, and Berlusconi has served as both?

 

[Famine]

From what I understand, the Prime Minister is "President of the Council of Ministers", the top lawmaking body. The President is an apolitical figurehead representing the head of state, but he can veto legislation if he believes it's non-constitutional. Berlusconi hasn't ever been President, but has been Prime Minister three times (four, if you include a cabinet reshuffle requiring a new swearing-in).

 

[hampus_dh]

Got any evidence that he didn't graduate from two of the world's most prestigious universities on merit?

Didn't think so.

Got any evidence Santa doesn´t exist?
Didn´t think so.

I like how you illustrate this by posting videos of Bush stumbling over his teleprompter or struggling to come up with witty answers on the spot...

Oh you mean those two incident out of several in the videos i showed you?
This is just the tip of the iceberg..

I'll just remind you again of Berlusconi...

​

And let's not forget:

Nice, nobody has said Silvio is a smart dude. I´m just saying he doesn´t even play in the same league as Bush.

And he was president of his country not once, not twice but THREE times!

Incorrect. He was the prime minister three times yes, but not President.
The president of Italy is Giorgio Napolitano.

Then we can look at when he was Prime Minister,

94-95
6 years goes by,
01-06
2 years goes by,
08-11

compared to,

01-09 for Bush.

 

[Dennisch]

Hampus, please try to act a bit smarter than this. All you do is throw lame comments into discussions, you prove nothing, except that Famine can be a bit wrong with 1 word.

Well, he wasn't wrong. Silly me for thinking that.

 

[Famine]

Got any evidence Santa doesn´t exist?
Didn´t think so.

Oh please. Non-falsifiability for an unmade claim vs. your unsubtantiated claim of corruption.

Your claim is testable. It requires evidence. Provide it or retract the claim.

Oh you mean those two incident out of several in the videos i showed you?
This is just the tip of the iceberg..

All of which are him stumbling over words (or that time he tried to leave a room by a locked door), like I said.

Nice, nobody has said Silvio is a smart dude. I´m just saying he doesn´t even play in the same league as Bush.

So am I. Bush was just a poor public speaker. Berlusconi is an idiot, criminal, liar, philanderer, racist and a poor public speaker.

Incorrect. He was the prime minister three times yes, but not President.
The president of Italy is Giorgio Napolitano.

The Italian PM is the President of the Council of Ministers (Presidente del Consiglio dei Ministri) and is the leader of the lawmaking body of the country. The Italian President is the President of the Italian Republic (Presidente della Repubblica) and is an apolitical figurehead head of state with power of veto, like I said above:

From what I understand, the Prime Minister is "President of the Council of Ministers", the top lawmaking body. The President is an apolitical figurehead representing the head of state, but he can veto legislation if he believes it's non-constitutional. Berlusconi hasn't ever been President, but has been Prime Minister three times (four, if you include a cabinet reshuffle requiring a new swearing-in).

Then we can look at when he was Prime Minister,

94-95
6 years goes by,
01-06
2 years goes by,
08-11

compared to,

01-09 for Bush.

Or "Berlusconi was there longer and kept coming back for more". If one holds the opinion that Bush was re-elected once because Americans are idiots, what opinion must one hold of Italians to keep re-electing Berlusconi?

 

[hampus_dh]

Oh please. Non-falsifiability for an unmade claim vs. your unsubtantiated claim of corruption.

Your claim is testable. It requires evidence. Provide it or retract the claim.

I´ll stand by that claim til the day i die. How´s that?
Santa Claus is testable aswell, you just need to search the whole planet for him.

All of which are him stumbling over words (or that time he tried to leave a room by a locked door), like I said.

Again, the tip of the iceberg.

So am I. Bush was just a poor public speaker. Berlusconi is an idiot, criminal, liar, philanderer, racist and a poor public speaker.

Oh so now we get to name the two old guys, ok my turn! Bush is an idiot, IQ of a rock, criminal, terrorist and a liar.

The Italian PM is the President of the Council of Ministers (Presidente del Consiglio dei Ministri) and is the leader of the lawmaking body of the country. The Italian President is the President of the Italian Republic (Presidente della Repubblica) and is an apolitical figurehead head of state with power of veto, like I said above.

I know that aswell, but it does not change the fact that he wasn´t a president like you said.

Or "Berlusconi was there longer and kept coming back for more". If one hold the opinion that Bush was re-elected once because Americans are idiots, what opinion must one hold of Italians to keep re-electing Berlusconi?

Yea who held that opinion? I know i claimed Bush was the dumbest person on the planet but i can´t recall saying Americans are idiots for choosing him once again.

 

[Famine]

I´ll stand by that claim til the day i die. How´s that?

Very religious.

You know he graduated from Yale 12 years before his dad ever ran for President, right?

Again, the tip of the iceberg.

Both the tip and the remainder of an iceberg are made of ice. As I said, all of Bush's gaffes are public speaking gaffes.

Oh so now we get to name the two old guys, ok my turn! Bush is an idiot, IQ of a rock, criminal, terrorist and a liar.

Bush has a BA from Yale and an MBA from Harvard - he is neither an idiot nor has the IQ of a rock. Please cite all of Bush's criminal trials - Berlusconi has twenty three. Terrorism? That's another extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence (that you won't give) - and please note that Italy under Berlusconi were in every war that the US under Bush were involved in...

Liar? Politician.

I know that aswell, but it does not change the fact that he wasn´t a president like you said.

Presidente del Consiglio dei Ministri. It's the job title. Not everywhere has the same job titles in English...

Yea who held that opinion? I know I claimed Bush was the dumbest person on the planet but I can´t recall saying Americans are idiots for choosing him once again.

Nor did I say you did.

However, the question remains of how the "dumbest person on the planet" managed to graduate from Yale and Harvard, became Governor of Texas and President of the United States of America and acquired an 8 figure fortune on the way. Must be a colossal chump, compared to someone who argues about how stupid he is on an internet forum...

It's relatively amusing that his occupation is now "public speaker" though...

 

[hampus_dh]

Very religious.

You know he graduated from Yale 12 years before his dad ever ran for President, right?

To each his own.
Doesn´t matter.

Both the tip and the remainder of an iceberg are made of ice. As I said, all of Bush's gaffes are public speaking gaffes.

No not really.

Bush has a BA from Yale and an MBA from Harvard - he is neither an idiot nor has the IQ of a rock. Please cite all of Bush's criminal trials - Berlusconi has twenty three. Terrorism? That's another extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence (that you won't give) - and please note that Italy under Berlusconi were in every war that the US under Bush were involved in...

Liar? Politician.

Yes he sure is an idiot and has the IQ of a rock. Criminal trials? Bit hard when you have a Government doing all the bad stuff...
Yes terrorism.. Iraq was based on a lie and was an act of pure terrorism.
that might be, but what was the % of the troops from Italy compared to USA?
What country built an embassy the size of the Vatican city?

Presidente del Consiglio dei Ministri. It's the job title. Not everywhere has the same job titles in English...

And this is the italian name for the real President, "Presidente della Repubblica"
But still, he was a Prime Minister.

Nor did I say you did.

However, the question remains of how the "dumbest person on the planet" managed to graduate from Yale and Harvard, became Governor of Texas and President of the United States of America and acquired an 8 figure fortune. Must be a colossal chump.

It's relatively amusing that his occupation is now "public speaker" though...

You implied it though.
Yea you ask me... If action figures one day can become Governor´s then idiots (with the right family and friends) can become anything they want.

"I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

And "now again", Mr Bush is quoted as telling the two, "I feel God's words coming to me: 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.' And by God, I'm gonna do it."

Yup, very bright man this,

 

[Famine]

To each his own.
Doesn´t matter.

If you want to behave abusively to people who hold beliefs, it doesn't seem very consistent to hold a belief and refuse to defend it.

No not really.

Very much so. Your first, best-thought-out examples..? Public speaking gaffes.

Yes he sure is an idiot and has the IQ of a rock.

Please show us your degrees then. After all, if this idiot can manage it, you'll have managed far better...

Criminal trials? Bit hard when you have a Government doing all the bad stuff...

The same goes for Berlusconi. Guess what - he still stood trial twenty three times. Here's the current ones.

Yes terrorism.. Iraq was based on a lie and was an act of pure terrorism.

Conjecture.

that might be, but what was the % of the troops from Italy compared to USA? What country built an embassy the size of the Vatican city?

If you're asserting a terrorist act, why does it matter how many terrorists there are? Terrorism is terrorism...

And this is the italian name for the real President, "Presidente della Repubblica"

Well done - I've only posted that information twice in this thread.

But still, he was a Prime Minister.

In English he was Prime Minister (hence me saying it before your objection). In Italian he was Presidente del Consiglio dei Ministri. It seems colossal arrogance to assume an English title is the correct one rather than the Italian one for an Italian official...

You implied it though.

Nope. You may have inferred it, but it's your own problem - try reading back to Strittan's posts... Since you seem to be on some form of anti-Bush crusade that requires ignoring real world evidence, it's probably the least of your problems.

Yea you ask me... If action figures one day can become Governor´s then idiots (with the right family and friends) can become anything they want.

That would seem to be an implication that the voting public are stupid, easy to buy off or both - which is either unique to the US and thus a judgement on the US voting public or it isn't and thus moot - and or that the voting process in the US is corrupt... The latter would be a very serious allegation that would also require proof.

 

[hampus_dh]

If you want to behave abusively to people who hold beliefs, it doesn't seem very consistent to hold a belief and refuse to defend it.

TO EACH HIS OWN.

Very much so. Your first, best-thought-out examples..? Public speaking gaffes.

Stop taking stuff out of your own ass. Who claimed they were the best thought out? YOU DID.

Please show us your degrees then. After all, if this idiot can manage it, you'll have managed far better...

Sure, right after you show yours claiming Silvio is an idiot. If he has better degrees then you then you must be an idiot right? Probably not...

The same goes for Berlusconi. Guess what - he still stood trial twenty three times.

That says more about your country then it does about Silvio...

If you're asserting a terrorist act, why does it matter how many terrorists there are? Terrorism is terrorism...

Because it does.

Well done - I've only posted that information twice in this thread.

Yea you sure did. Want a Popsicle?

In English he was Prime Minister (hence me saying it before your objection). In Italian he was Presidente del Consiglio dei Ministri. It seems colossal arrogance to assume an English title is the correct one rather than the Italian one for an Italian official...

Italy has one President, his name is Giorgio Napolitano. And then they have a Prime Minister named, Silvio Berlusconi.

Nope. You may have inferred it, but it's your own problem - try reading back to Strittan's posts... Since you seem to be on some form of anti-Bush crusade that requires ignoring real world evidence, it's probably the least of your problems.

No i did not.

That would seem to be an implication that the voting public are stupid, easy to buy off or both - which is either unique to the US and thus a judgement on the US voting public or it isn't and thus moot - and or that the voting process in the US is corrupt... The latter would be a very serious allegation that would also require proof.

Yea i´ll go with a 50/50 on this one.

 

[Famine]

TO EACH HIS OWN.

That's fine. Stop talking down to people who believe in God in that thread in that case.

Stop taking stuff out of your own ass. Who claimed they were the best thought out? YOU DID.

That was your first attempt at rebuttal (by providing exactly the material I said you'd provide). If you didn't think it through, it scarcely seems like an attempt.

Sure, right after you show yours claiming Silvio is an idiot. If he has better degrees then you then you must be an idiot right? Probably not...

Certainly. Silvio Berlusconi has a degree in Law gained from Milan in 1961. I have a BSc. in Molecular Biology gained from UEA in 1999 and an MSc. in Human Genetics and Disease gained from Sheffield Hallam in 2000. I have a registered IQ of 172.

Your move.

That says more about your country then it does about Silvio...

When did the UK come into this?

Because it does.

Ah, more belief.

Hey, did you know that the White House's justification for going into Iraq - that Saddam Hussein had tried to buy significant quantities of yellowcake uranium in Niger - was a number of forged documents sourced from Italian intelligence operatives? Should be fun watching you try and dismiss that one.

Italy has one President, his name is Giorgio Napolitano. And then they have a Prime Minister named, Silvio Berlusconi.

In English. In Italian they have a Presidente del Consiglio dei Ministri (who isn't Silvio Berlusconi - he resigned two days ago. Do keep up with the news) and a Presidente della Repubblica. Since they are Italian, the Italian titles are appropriate and the assumption that the English titles are correct is arrogant.

Also, notice the post I made before your objection:

From what I understand, the Prime Minister is "President of the Council of Ministers", the top lawmaking body. The President is an apolitical figurehead representing the head of state, but he can veto legislation if he believes it's non-constitutional. Berlusconi hasn't ever been President, but has been Prime Minister three times (four, if you include a cabinet reshuffle requiring a new swearing-in).

Might want to save that popsicle.

No i did not.

If you drew that conclusion, you inferred something from what was written that was not implied (note the use of the impersonal "one holds"/"one hold" rather than "you"). Your inferral = your problem.

Yea i´ll go with a 50/50 on this one.

There were four options (voting public are stupid, voting public are easy to pay off; voting public are stupid and easy to pay off; voting system is corrupt) and I don't see any evidence presented by you for any of them.

More belief, it seems.

 

[Strittan]

From what I understand, the Prime Minister is "President of the Council of Ministers", the top lawmaking body. The President is an apolitical figurehead representing the head of state, but he can veto legislation if he believes it's non-constitutional. Berlusconi hasn't ever been President, but has been Prime Minister three times (four, if you include a cabinet reshuffle requiring a new swearing-in).

Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up. 👍