Prize cars?

[SCER]

What about the multitude of players who get no sense of accomplishment from beating the AI? Who is damaged by giving everyone options to play the game in a way that gives each of them maximum enjoyment?

Everybody will take the quickest avenue to get millions of credits, so putting that option there immediately nullifies the classic career progression avenue, so in my opinion the 'each receiving maximum enjoyment' doesn't work. You don't do the career mode because you want to have to do lots of different races before you get your dream car, you do it because you have to do it to get your dream car, and you've earned it. If career mode is made pointless because you don't have to work hard to get the nice car, then much of the appeal of the game is taken out for many people, myself included. Finally getting your dream car after lots of effort gives you a great feeling, a sense of accomplishment which is quite important in video games generally. Being given your dream car after you load up the game, and having no obligation to really do anything but get a couple million per race and then play online isn't, for many people.

I'm not saying that the AI isn't fairly dire, but removing the need to really earn cars and money is also fairly dire in my opinion.

I'd propose an online career (or at least car class divisions and better rewards) as well as an offline career, for those that really can't stand the AI.

In my opinion, the huge increase in cash rewards for races in GT5 made it much more exciting for a while, but also sucked the fun out of the game quicker, in the long run. Being (basically) given everything isn't that fun for a lot of people.

 

[NCRthree]

Gran Turismo is a video game first and foremost, and nearly all video games involve competing against the AI in races/battles/etc. in order to progress at first.

Getting rid of that/creating a massive shortcut would be damaging because so many people play it to complete online mode for the sense of accomplishment, and that sense of accomplishment is taken away if there's a shortcut you can take. Most people still like games to have offline objectives, I don't think we're past that stage yet.

This should be addressed by GT. Before GT5P and online racing, GT's career was all there was except for events like WRS TT's, LAN racing etc...

I wizzed through GT5 ASpec just for the prize cars then found online. Grinding for cars became the only reason I played offline, just to gain better cars for online. Chasing the AI got real old real fast especially when you get in a good group to race with.

Unless there's a huge AI change (doubtful) that's what's in store for GT6. It does put online only racers back to the old grind.

 

[SCER]

This should be addressed by GT. Before GT5P and online racing, GT's career was all there was except for events like WRS TT's, LAN racing etc...

I wizzed through GT5 ASpec just for the prize cars then found online. Grinding for cars became the only reason I played offline, just to gain better cars for online. Chasing the AI got real old real fast especially when you get in a good group to race with.

Unless there's a huge AI change (doubtful) that's what's in store for GT6. It does put online only racers back to the old grind.

It certainly does suck from the perspective an online-centric gamer, but in terms of pleasing the masses, I just don't think they can afford to give you the opportunity to just dive into online mode with whatever cars/parts you want or need.

And I, for one, am holding out for at least an AI improvement, or an AI improvement patch fairly early on.

 

[Rionmoon]

Because having every single prize car purchasable kills much of the simulation mode.

That's ridiculous, nonsensical, irrational and illogical.

Having an uber car kills the SIMULATION.

I play the GT series to DRIVE and to challenge my personal best times on tracks as well as the racing competitions. I don't what to unlock content on a game I've already paid for with real world money. If I wanted that nonsense and level of aggravation I would play some arcade-ish game that gives monotony rewards for doing the same repetitive action over and over like a rat running a maze repetitively just to be given a reward.

Come to think of it that last bit sounds vaguely familiar, like some of the time trials for GT5.

I digress.

People want unlockables for various reasons including the gloat factor and egotistic satisfaction of showing off their trophy prize to an audience that really doesn't care much.

No leave prize cars alone and leave the purchasing system alone in GT5. Real drivers come to GT to drive not be rewarded for repeatedly hitting the feeder bar like a good rodent

 

[Samus]

Ok how about this. If GT6 does have a livery editor for prize cars PD could offer 'exclusive' painted cars, perhaps tuned as well. That way it's an exclusive car for those that like that sort of thing but for those that don't they can just buy the plain car, do the upgrades themselves and paint it however they like. They're not missing out on anything except a paint scheme.

 

[SCER]

That's ridiculous, nonsensical, irrational and illogical.

Bit harsh.

Having an uber car kills the SIMULATION.

I play the GT series to DRIVE and to challenge my personal best times on tracks as well as the racing competitions. I don't what to unlock content on a game I've already paid for with real world money. If I wanted that nonsense and level of aggravation I would play some arcade-ish game that gives monotony rewards for doing the same repetitive action over and over like a rat running a maze repetitively just to be given a reward.

Gran Turismo isn't exclusively a game for adults, so the whole 'paid for this with real world money' argument doesn't really wash. Show me a successful mainstream game that gives you everything from the beginning and has no reward system.

Come to think of it that last bit sounds vaguely familiar, like some of the time trials for GT5.

They are sometimes like that.

I digress.

People want unlockables for various reasons including the gloat factor and egotistic satisfaction of showing off their trophy prize to an audience that really doesn't care much.

Some do, others like to earn things rather than have them given. This is a game as well as a simulator, and as such it generally has to give you challenges of varying difficulty in order for you to recieve prizes.

No leave prize cars alone and leave the purchasing system alone in GT5. Real drivers come to GT to drive not be rewarded for repeatedly hitting the feeder bar like a good rodent

 

[Johnnypenso]

Everybody will take the quickest avenue to get millions of credits, so putting that option there immediately nullifies the classic career progression avenue, so in my opinion the 'each receiving maximum enjoyment' doesn't work. You don't do the career mode because you want to have to do lots of different races before you get your dream car, you do it because you have to do it to get your dream car, and you've earned it. If career mode is made pointless because you don't have to work hard to get the nice car, then much of the appeal of the game is taken out for many people, myself included. Finally getting your dream car after lots of effort gives you a great feeling, a sense of accomplishment which is quite important in video games generally. Being given your dream car after you load up the game, and having no obligation to really do anything but get a couple million per race and then play online isn't, for many people.

I'm not saying that the AI isn't fairly dire, but removing the need to really earn cars and money is also fairly dire in my opinion.

I'd propose an online career (or at least car class divisions and better rewards) as well as an offline career, for those that really can't stand the AI.

In my opinion, the huge increase in cash rewards for races in GT5 made it much more exciting for a while, but also sucked the fun out of the game quicker, in the long run. Being (basically) given everything isn't that fun for a lot of people.

No offense, but I believe you are missing the point. Two points actually.

1. Not everyone wants, needs or receives the kind of satisfaction you are talking about. I think I speak for many GT5'ers in saying that as soon as online became available, offline is beginning to look like Mario Kart to us. Best thing to happen in the game for me was the SSR11 glitch. I made $75Mill in a short period, never touched A or BSpec again.

2. No one is talking about taking away your ability to play the game how you want, just giving the rest of us a way to play the game that more suits our goals and needs, which is online. You can have a career mode that takes months to complete for all I care, it just has zero appeal to me and many others.

And if the options becomes available, and everyone takes it as you suggest, isn't that really saying that they get no value from the offline portion of the game?

Gran Turismo isn't exclusively a game for adults, so the whole 'paid for this with real world money' argument doesn't really wash. Show me a successful mainstream game that gives you everything from the beginning and has no reward system.

I've only played a couple of first person shooters but I don't recall having to complete a huge portion of the offline game to be able to compete online. In fact I believe you can just go straight to online if you want, and compete on an equal basis with any other player starting out. Same with the NHL series. If I had to do an entire season of the game offline before I went online, I would never have bought the game. In FPS's everyone starts online the exact same, you earn more perks as you go, which is an encouragement to play online.

 

[SCER]

No offense, but I believe you are missing the point. Two points actually.

1. Not everyone wants, needs or receives the kind of satisfaction you are talking about. I think I speak for many GT5'ers in saying that as soon as online became available, offline is beginning to look like Mario Kart to us. Best thing to happen in the game for me was the SSR11 glitch. I made $75Mill in a short period, never touched A or BSpec again.

Not everyone, but still, in my opinion, the majority of gamers. And GTPlanet doesn't represent the majority of GT gamers, in case you were about to say that most people on GTPlanet like the idea. GTPlanet GT gamers are highly involved, experienced, mostly online, and older than average, and very often have extra equipment like pedals etc., and are thus not representative of the GT6 buying population.

2. No one is talking about taking away your ability to play the game how you want, just giving the rest of us a way to play the game that more suits our goals and needs, which is online. You can have a career mode that takes months to complete for all I care, it just has zero appeal to me and many others.

I know that you're not talking about taking away my ability to play the game the way I want to, but I just don't feel that that can be done without taking a lot of the purpose out of the offline side of the game, and ruining it for many gamers.

And if the options becomes available, and everyone takes it as you suggest, isn't that really saying that they get no value from the offline portion of the game?

People will take that option, as I suggest, because they want the nice car rather than having to earn it. What this does, however, is absolutely tear up the long term playability of the game for offline gamers. If I have all my dream cars at day two for Gran Turismo 6, and for whatever reason I can't go online regularly, or don't want to, then the game will probably become dull within a couple of months, as the incentive is largely removed.

I've only played a couple of first person shooters but I don't recall having to complete a huge portion of the offline game to be able to compete online. In fact I believe you can just go straight to online if you want, and compete on an equal basis with any other player starting out. Same with the NHL series. If I had to do an entire season of the game offline before I went online, I would never have bought the game. In FPS's everyone starts online the exact same, you earn more perks as you go, which is an encouragement to play online.

In most FPSs you have to put in huge numbers of hours (online) to access the top weapons, perks, etc.
It is, in my opinion, akin to a seperate online career, which is something that I support. I can't comment on the NHL series, as I'm from the UK and have virtually no experience with them, but I'd say that sports games are a far more arcade-esque, plug in and play genre in general.

 

[Johnnypenso]

People will take that option, as I suggest, because they want the nice car rather than having to earn it. What this does, however, is absolutely tear up the long term playability of the game for offline gamers. If I have all my dream cars at day two for Gran Turismo 6, and for whatever reason I can't go online regularly, or don't want to, then the game will probably become dull within a couple of months, as the incentive is completely removed.

In most FPSs you have to put in huge numbers of hours (online) to access the top weapons, perks, etc.
It is, in my opinion, akin to a seperate online career, which is something that I support.

I'd bet many people quit the game out of pure frustation because all they want to do is drive really cool cars on cool tracks and don't have the time to slog through the endless A/Bspec. Point is, if you give people options, they will choose the path that is best for them. People that want a career mode offline, won't choose the easy path. People that aren't interested in a career mode, will choose another option.

An online career mode would be fun, but again, only as an optional way to play the game. It won't be much better if I'm forced to race online against drivers of questionable talent because they have to enter certain levels of races to earn their online credentials.

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

snip...

People want unlockables for various reasons including the gloat factor and egotistic satisfaction of showing off their trophy prize to an audience that really doesn't care much.

No leave prize cars alone and leave the purchasing system alone in GT5. Real drivers come to GT to drive not be rewarded for repeatedly hitting the feeder bar like a good rodent

I've come to the realization I'll probably never Gold the Gran Turismo Rally Special events(Advanced). I have to admit it is frustrating knowing the game was released in 2010 and I still do not possess the skill, and probably never will, to complete those events and come out on top.

However, I own every rally car in the game, or very close to it. I achieved this by cycling the UCD over the course of a 2 year period. As a random Rally Car is the prize for first place, any effort to win is therefore nullified if the prize car is the motivation(and it was).

I don't regret those two years because, simply put, I love racing cars(even against myself--PERISH the thought). I enjoyed the effort of taking a car I'd won or bought and racing time trials and/or tuning in practice mode. This in-turn would progress the UCD days(as many already know).

It could be argued that online-racing involves more bragging rights than simply earning a prize car in career mode(*from the viewpoint of ego).

Forcing drivers to earn cars potentially keeps poorly skilled drivers from earning a car thereby terrorizing others online with a car they cannot drive. For example, If only the most skilled drivers earn the F1 cars through difficult races, then only the most skilled drivers will race online with the F1. What I have just described is purely situational so please don't take it as a rule.

The reverse of this argument is what I previously described: inability to win a car and forced grinding, as many[not including myself] would call it.
It would appear the most vocal of the GT consumer base have evolved into an online centric crowd rather than off-line. Aww, GT the great social driving experience.

This experience is not necessarily the experience of other drivers. As many of us hold strong opinions, I'll leave it at that.

 

[SCER]

I'd bet many people quit the game out of pure frustation because all they want to do is drive really cool cars on cool tracks and don't have the time to slog through the endless A/Bspec.

You might be right about that, I can't really comment because I don't fall into that category.

Point is, if you give people options, they will choose the path that is best for them. People that want a career mode offline, won't choose the easy path.

I disagree here, however. If GT6 arrives and the opening screen says, "Would you like to start with $75 million?", a lot of people that were interested in the career mode would go for that, that perhaps can't or don't want to play online, and would then just be stuck racing around the Nurburgring in their super nice cars with no real game objective, shelving the game to play more exciting arcade games not soon after.

An online career mode would be fun, but again, only as an optional way to play the game. It won't be much better if I'm forced to race online against drivers of questionable talent because they have to enter certain levels of races to earn their online credentials.

I think that it's a fair compromise to be honest. You could have an open half of online, with the same setup as now, where you can race against your friends in groups or whatever, and a career half of online, where if you want to earn money/cars you have to compete against the people around you.

Which just happens to be very similar to the super successful FPS online format.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Ok how about this. If GT6 does have a livery editor for prize cars PD could offer 'exclusive' painted cars, perhaps tuned as well. That way it's an exclusive car for those that like that sort of thing but for those that don't they can just buy the plain car, do the upgrades themselves and paint it however they like. They're not missing out on anything except a paint scheme.

Actually, I like this idea. It reminds me of the special color prize cars that you could get in the early GT games, but taken a step further. Yeah, I would love to just have a special paint scheme unlocked for me on a car for completing an event.

An alternate idea for me is that players could complete a difficult event and get a car like the stealth or chromeline cars in GT5.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

I disagree here, however. If GT6 arrives and the opening screen says, "Would you like to start with $75 million?", a lot of people that were interested in the career mode would go for that, that perhaps can't or don't want to play online, and would then just be stuck racing around the Nurburgring in their super nice cars with no real game objective, shelving the game to play more exciting arcade games not soon after.

Whoever accepts the 75,000,000 Cr. and then finds the game boring afterwards, has no one else to blame but themselves for their lack of self-control. I know for sure I would say no.

 

[SCER]

Whoever accepts the 75,000,000 Cr. and then finds the game boring afterwards, has no one else to blame but themselves for their lack of self-control. I know for sure I would say no.

Interesting. I like to think that I'd do the same. I think that a very large number of casual gamers wouldn't, and thus make the game more boring for themselves in the long run.

 

[Exorcet]

Interesting. I like to think that I'd do the same. I think that a very large number of casual gamers wouldn't, and thus make the game more boring for themselves in the long run.

Getting $75,000,000 would spoil the game for them? They could still progress through GT Mode exactly as before. The only difference would be the lack of need to grind for cars.

They could also go racing online, or just have fun in arcade mode. It just seems like a massive assumption to assume that people will just drop the game because they don't need to repeat races for money. That's really the only difference between the starting with nothing and not.

As stated before, more options is better. If people suddenly don't want to do GT Mode because they're offered an alternative, then they simply didn't enjoy GT Mode in the first place.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Getting $75,000,000 would spoil the game for them? They could still progress through GT Mode exactly as before. The only difference would be the lack of need to grind for cars.

No it would spoil the game to a large degree. There are lots of players out there who will run whatever the race will allow them to run if they have it and if you start with that much money there would be plenty of people of there driving fulling upgraded Veyrons in the AWD race, and other such stuff where the cars they have are far faster than what should be used in the race and then they run away from the AI in what will be a boring race and then win a little 50hp car as a prize and they are not happy with the game at all.

mean while if they start with just a few credits and have to buy a cheap beater that may be a bit hard to win with early on they feel a greater sense of accomplishment when they win that first simple little race and more as they go on and win better cars.

Starting with $75 mil would imo be a horrible option to have available.

 

[SCER]

Getting $75,000,000 would spoil the game for them? They could still progress through GT Mode exactly as before. The only difference would be the lack of need to grind for cars.

They could also go racing online, or just have fun in arcade mode. It just seems like a massive assumption to assume that people will just drop the game because they don't need to repeat races for money. That's really the only difference between the starting with nothing and not.

As stated before, more options is better. If people suddenly don't want to do GT Mode because they're offered an alternative, then they simply didn't enjoy GT Mode in the first place.

To get the money in a (somewhat) interesting way is why people go through GT mode. We're all aware of the nature of most mainstream games, involving unlocking and earning enough money for things. If it was a good idea to be able to bypass this with no effort or cost whatsoever, then why is it the format of so many games? I feel like I'm repeating myself a bit.

I remember that the option to bypass unlocking cars was offered in Burnout Paradise, towards the end of the games commercial lifespan, and it provided about two to three hours worth of offline fun. GT is a different game and probably wont pan out exactly the same, but many elements such as the feeling of car ownership that many people get from the game would be all but completely removed.

Starting with $75 mil would imo be a horrible option to have available.

Finally, someone agrees with me

 

[Exorcet]

No it would spoil the game to a large degree. There are lots of players out there who will run whatever the race will allow them to run if they have it and if you start with that much money there would be plenty of people of there driving fulling upgraded Veyrons in the AWD race, and other such stuff where the cars they have are far faster than what should be used in the race and then they run away from the AI in what will be a boring race and then win a little 50hp car as a prize and they are not happy with the game at all.

mean while if they start with just a few credits and have to buy a cheap beater that may be a bit hard to win with early on they feel a greater sense of accomplishment when they win that first simple little race and more as they go on and win better cars.

Starting with $75 mil would imo be a horrible option to have available.

You're assuming you can enter any car in any race and you're assuming that people care about prize cars.

I remember seeing people flood the market place here before the trade limits. No one seemed to be complaining about getting lots of free cars. Some people even just signed up to GTP for that purpose, a good number were probably casual players who had found a way around the boring grind.

The truth is, you're really speaking for yourself. There's no proof that what you want is what is best for everyone.

To get the money in a (somewhat) interesting way is why people go through GT mode.

I've never seen a poll that breaks that down for the majority of players.

We're all aware of the nature of most mainstream games, involving unlocking and earning enough money for things. If it was a good idea to be able to bypass this with no effort or cost whatsoever, then why is it the format of so many games? I feel like I'm repeating myself a bit.

If it wasn't a good idea to avoid progression, why do virtually all sims go down that path?

Popularity indicates popularity. And no one is asking to make it impossible to play GT the old way. Just the option to play it differently.

I remember that the option to bypass unlocking cars was offered in Burnout Paradise, towards the end of the games commercial lifespan, and it provided about two to three hours worth of offline fun. GT is a different game and probably wont pan out exactly the same, but many elements such as the feeling of car ownership that many people get from the game would be all but completely removed.

The feeling of ownership does not exist for some people. Everything on the disk is 0's and 1's. I don't know about Burnout Paradise, but I can't think of a game I owned that would have its longevity reduced by an unlock option.

 

[SCER]

You're assuming you can enter any car in any race and you're assuming that people care about prize cars.

The truth is, you're really speaking for yourself. There's no proof that what you want is what is best for everyone.

Does that not work both ways?

I've never seen a poll that breaks that down for the majority of players.

Well I'm hoping that this is still just casual speculation. And besides, any poll conducted on GTPlanet wouldn't be valid for the whole GT playing population.

If it wasn't a good idea to avoid progression, why do virtually all sims go down that path?

GT is a mainstream video game as well as a sim, so it has to act like both. Pure sims sell much fewer than games like GT and Forza.

The feeling of ownership does not exist for some people. Everything on the disk is 0's and 1's. I don't know about Burnout Paradise, but I can't think of a game I owned that would have its longevity reduced by an unlock option.

Opinions I guess.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Somehow we're stuck on this $75 Million thing now when the OP is about prize cars..lol. I think someone above had it right. Have all the prize cars available for purchase, but have the ones you win from completing certain events come with special colours or details or liveries or something like that, so they can be identified. Perhaps Gran Turismo logos on it or something. Seems like a reasonable comprimise to me.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

You're assuming you can enter any car in any race and you're assuming that people care about prize cars.

No I am assuming that you can enter several different cars into the events as has been the case in past games. For example in the AWS event you can enter any AWD car which would included a maxed out Veyron which you could easily have if you started with that much cash.

The truth is, you're really speaking for yourself. There's no proof that what you want is what is best for everyone.

There is a reason why all racing games have you race to earn money rather than just handing it to you before you start to race. There is also a reason why they start you off with just 1 or in some case a few cars as well.

If it wasn't a good idea to avoid progression, why do virtually all sims go down that path?

Several full on sims just let you drive whatever you want. There is no need to win any prizes in the game, you have no cars of your own in many of them you just drive the cars that are there and maybe do some tuning.

The game design behind GT is to collect cars, build them the way you want and have them in your garage to choose from. The harder you work the bigger the selection you have. This is a very appealing aspect of this type of game and is missing in many sim games other wise many of us would just play those sim games and not bother with GT or Forza.

Just out of curiosity I used a game shark after I have completed GT4, started a new profile and gave myself all the cars and a boat load of cash. I played for a little while but found it very unfullfilling and quite boring. I started a game from scratch and allowed it to import the little edge from GT3 and I started it from scratch with no import. The latter was the more fun of the three and the first made it pretty much pointless to even play.

I think all games are more fun in the early stages when you are trying to find a way to get just a few K so you can upgrade that car to win a race or buy another car for a different event, once you get past this then the offline mode is mute.

The online aspect is much different than offline for sure but I think the fact that you can use many stock cars without owning them as well as those you buy or win over time is fine to start and helps push people to race more rather than less.

There is a reason GT has sold millions and millions of copies and it is not because they give you everything at the beginning

 

[Exorcet]

Does that not work both ways?

When have I not taken that into account?

Well I'm hoping that this is still just casual speculation. And besides, any poll conducted on GTPlanet wouldn't be valid for the whole GT playing population.

Yes, so even if everyone on GTP wants GT6 to be played in only one way, that doesn't mean they have the majority position. Not that the majority even matters in this case since there is no conflict of interest.

GT is a mainstream video game as well as a sim, so it has to act like both. Pure sims sell much fewer than games like GT and Forza.

It doesn't act like both. Offering a sim mode won't mean it has to stop offering a "game" mode either.

No I am assuming that you can enter several different cars into the events as has been the case in past games. For example in the AWS event you can enter any AWD car which would included a maxed out Veyron which you could easily have if you started with that much cash.

This is basically what I said. You're assuming the rules will let you overpower the AI. Like Forza, GT6 may let you turn restrictions on or off.

There is a reason why all racing games have you race to earn money rather than just handing it to you before you start to race. There is also a reason why they start you off with just 1 or in some case a few cars as well.

It's certainly not because it's a necessary feature.

Several full on sims just let you drive whatever you want. There is no need to win any prizes in the game, you have no cars of your own in many of them you just drive the cars that are there and maybe do some tuning.

Sounds like GT without grinding. I own cars in full sims as much as I do in GT.

The game design behind GT is to collect cars, build them the way you want and have them in your garage to choose from. The harder you work the bigger the selection you have. This is a very appealing aspect of this type of game and is missing in many sim games other wise many of us would just play those sim games and not bother with GT or Forza.

No it's not about how hard you work. You've even said it. Take an overpowered car and slap the AI silly. It's about how long you want to grind. It's not universally appealing, and it's completely unnecessary.

There is a reason GT has sold millions and millions of copies and it is not because they give you everything at the beginning

And there's just as much reason to think it's not because you have to get credits to buy cars.

 

[SCER]

Somehow we're stuck on this $75 Million thing now when the OP is about prize cars..lol. I think someone above had it right. Have all the prize cars available for purchase, but have the ones you win from completing certain events come with special colours or details or liveries or something like that, so they can be identified. Perhaps Gran Turismo logos on it or something. Seems like a reasonable comprimise to me.

Sounds good to me.

Boy, we've digressed.

When have I not taken that into account?

I was just wondering why you brought up the fact that assumptions were being made.

Yes, so even if everyone on GTP wants GT6 to be played in only one way, that doesn't mean they have the majority position. Not that the majority even matters in this case since there is no conflict of interest.

I think that there is a conflict of interest. Games in which you can bypass unlocking things tend to be massively less career mode focused than other games, and generally aimed at a more online experience, which isn't necessarily everyone's preference, and would very much change the game, whether you intend for that to happen or not.

It doesn't act like both. Offering a sim mode won't mean it has to stop offering a "game" mode either.

I disagree. I can't think of a big game that has effectively been an out and out simulator as well as having an enjoyable career mode.

 

[Tornado]

The game design behind GT is to collect cars, build them the way you want and have them in your garage to choose from. The harder you work the bigger the selection you have. This is a very appealing aspect of this type of game and is missing in many sim games other wise many of us would just play those sim games and not bother with GT or Forza.

It's still not a matter of difficulty in the slightest. There was nothing difficult about handing an X1 off to Bob to slaughter the Dream Car Championship. There was nothing difficult about pounding on that one Special Event in GT4; or throwing a turbo on a DTM car and blowing through that series. And those two methods were a sure fire way to getting the majority of the cars in both games. In GT5 they practically even rewarded you with it with another X1 at Level 35.

Just out of curiosity I used a game shark after I have completed GT4, started a new profile and gave myself all the cars and a boat load of cash. I played for a little while but found it very unfullfilling and quite boring. I started a game from scratch and allowed it to import the little edge from GT3 and I started it from scratch with no import. The latter was the more fun of the three and the first made it pretty much pointless to even play.

You see, you say that you don't just want a prize collecting game and that the act of racing is the enjoyable part; then you turn around and say that when you started one of the games with everything unlocked the game was pointless to play.


I'll also say that I regularly play GT2 under that very set of circumstances (max credits, occasionally with a code to get a specific car when I want/need it), and I still find it to be the most enjoyable in the series. Certainly got more life out of it than I did GT4.

There is a reason GT has sold millions and millions of copies and it is not because they give you everything at the beginning

And even if that reason did have something to do with the prize car system, that's not something that could be proven at all.

 

[Feldynn]

Somehow we're stuck on this $75 Million thing now when the OP is about prize cars..lol. I think someone above had it right. Have all the prize cars available for purchase, but have the ones you win from completing certain events come with special colours or details or liveries or something like that, so they can be identified. Perhaps Gran Turismo logos on it or something. Seems like a reasonable comprimise to me.

That's not a bad idea at all, if the customisation of vehicles includes various bodykit parts as well as wings / spoilers and wheels there could be a selection of special GT / PD tuner cars set up as prize cars

As an example the prize for say a low spec FR only race could be a Nissan Silvia S15 "Polyphony Edition" car. A stock S15 Silvia with unique bodykit / wing and wheels, maybe a special paint / decal / livery with GT logos and wotnot (a bit like the RMs do) and with a selection of preinstalled upgrades (e.g. ECU, Sports air Filter, Sports Exhaust, Fixed Suspension).

Nothing that couldn't be recreated performance wise by anyone grabbing an S15 and putting on the same upgrades, but it would at least have some degree of uniqueness about it. Of course it would mean PD would have to go through and create a whole bunch of prize cars like that though.

 

[Johnnypenso]

That's not a bad idea at all, if the customisation of vehicles includes various bodykit parts as well as wings / spoilers and wheels there could be a selection of special GT / PD tuner cars set up as prize cars

As an example the prize for say a low spec FR only race could be a Nissan Silvia S15 "Polyphony Edition" car. A stock S15 Silvia with unique bodykit / wing and wheels, maybe a special paint / decal / livery with GT logos and wotnot (a bit like the RMs do) and with a selection of preinstalled upgrades (e.g. ECU, Sports air Filter, Sports Exhaust, Fixed Suspension).

Nothing that couldn't be recreated performance wise by anyone grabbing an S15 and putting on the same upgrades, but it would at least have some degree of uniqueness about it. Of course it would mean PD would have to go through and create a whole bunch of prize cars like that though.

It would require some work that's for sure but I don't think it's unreasonable. It would give the prize cars a whole new prestige, become another thing to collect, make them untradeable of course.

 

[Tornado]

That's how most of the prize cars in GT3 worked too, so they've done it before. Special paintjob or decal, and maybe 10-15 more horsepower or so stock. Combine that with all of the cars being in the dealership (with balanced costs) and the system would be perfect as far as I'm concerned.

 

[SCER]

The debate as to whether there should be a pure simulator mode seems to pivot on how much we think simulator mode would detract from the classic career mode really, but I think that it probably belongs in a different thread.

 

[Exorcet]

I was just wondering why you brought up the fact that assumptions were being made.

To me, it sounds like HBR thinks his position it the default.

I think that there is a conflict of interest. Games in which you can bypass unlocking things tend to be massively less career mode focused than other games, and generally aimed at a more online experience, which isn't necessarily everyone's preference, and would very much change the game, whether you intend for that to happen or not.

Sims existed pre-online, and to be honest there is no difference between sims and games, except one usually is more realistic.

Around the time GT1 came out, something similar except with planes was released for the PC. USNF 97. A mid range flight sim with a large aircraft selection. No unlocks, but you had 3-5? Very large campaigns to play through if you wanted. Or you could go build your own campaigns since the game let you.

Options were everywhere. You could make yourself invincible if you wanted to in the middle of a mission. I didn't even know online games were a thing back then, and this game gave me more replayability than any other game ever.

I disagree. I can't think of a big game that has effectively been an out and out simulator as well as having an enjoyable career mode.

Doesn't take much imagination. Give GT5 full sim physics and a free mode, and there it is. It's not like a free mode is hard to even program. In fact GT5 has one, it's just locked away, maybe because PD didn't want it to be too fun.

And if you want another example, USNF 97 that I mentioned above.

 

[SCER]

Doesn't take much imagination. Give GT5 full sim physics and a free mode, and there it is. It's not like a free mode is hard to even program. In fact GT5 has one, it's just locked away, maybe because PD didn't want it to be too fun.

USNF 97 sounds like a good game.

I think the only real debate between us is of whether a free mode would take away the reason to play career mode for offline gamers, and effectively turn it into a 'drive around a bit, change the disc for something else' kind of game for them.