Project CARS 2 General Discussion Thread - Out Now on PS4/XB1/PC

[jake2013guy]

It just has the look of fakeness and arcade. For me it isn't possible to have a full experience without cockpit view or helmet view. The car feels off and disjointed from what it's supposed to do when in chase cam.

Also, if you're serious enough to go league racing you should be serious enough to learn to drive from cockpit.

How about if you're seriousness to go league racing, you should be serious enough to make an effort to not crash into others?

 

[Wolfe]

It just has the look of fakeness and arcade. For me it isn't possible to have a full experience without cockpit view or helmet view. The car feels off and disjointed from what it's supposed to do when in chase cam.

That's why I use cockpit view more often than not, when there's poor feedback from chase cam on what the car is doing.

I've invested hundreds of hours into Enthusia but the chase cam is still a bit tough for me to grasp, costing me a second or two even on a short track. But I spent plenty of time with the chase cam in Forza Horizon because it's better-adjusted, enjoyable for cruising, and helpful when watching for traffic ahead.

 

[F1Racer68]

It just has the look of fakeness and arcade. For me it isn't possible to have a full experience without cockpit view or helmet view. The car feels off and disjointed from what it's supposed to do when in chase cam.

Also, if you're serious enough to go league racing you should be serious enough to learn to drive from cockpit.

And where is the "immersion" factor if my cockpit view doesn't allow me to see all the things I would see in the interior of my actual car? Sitting in the driver's seat of my real car I can easily see the full windshield, both front corners, left side view mirror, and even the right side view mirror with minimal head movement (just peripheral vision and eye movement).

With a proper FoV setting in the in car view on a single monitor you can't see ANY of that. At best, you see half of your rear view mirror and the center line of the dashboard. How is that any more immersive than hood view/roof view/chase cam view?

I am forunate enough to race with triples, so yes, I run cockpit view (helmet in fact) exclusively, but when I think back to my single monitor days (less than 8 months ago) your entire "immersion" argument falls apart. Not to mention the negative impact you cause to others around you by not having a full view of what's around your car.

 

[ebelen92]

And where is the "immersion" factor if my cockpit view doesn't allow me to see all the things I would see in the interior of my actual car? Sitting in the driver's seat of my real car I can easily see the full windshield, both front corners, left side view mirror, and even the right side view mirror with minimal head movement (just peripheral vision and eye movement).

With a proper FoV setting in the in car view on a single monitor you can't see ANY of that. At best, you see half of your rear view mirror and the center line of the dashboard. How is that any more immersive than hood view/roof view/chase cam view?

I am forunate enough to race with triples, so yes, I run cockpit view (helmet in fact) exclusively, but when I think back to my single monitor days (less than 8 months ago) your entire "immersion" argument falls apart. Not to mention the negative impact you cause to others around you by not having a full view of what's around your car.

This is a fair point.

 

[PzR Slim]

If you all are really serious about immersion and getting the best experience you should be looking at VR or triple screen. I agree that cockpit view is the most immersive and if your serious about the experience then that is the view to use. However, cockpit view on one screen does have it's limitations. VR is the best solution, immersion is off the charts and you don't have to worry about crashing into people.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

@F1Racer68 Are they monitors like for a computer or multiple TVs? Either way, did you purchase them with the idea of multi-monitor in mind and look for ones with thin borders? I always see videos of multi-monitors but the edges are so think that in itself ruins the immersion a bit.

 

[diesel97]

You can talk immersion all you want (everyone has their own meaning) but you are not have FUN then there is no immersion.

FUN comes before EMMISION, it's a game

 

[jake2013guy]

You can talk immersion all you want (everyone has their own meaning) but you are not have FUN then there is no immersion.

Exactly this. You can't be immersed in something if you're not able to enjoy it.

 

[PzR Slim]

You can talk immersion all you want (everyone has their own meaning) but you are not have FUN then there is no immersion.

Exactly this. You can't be immersed in something if you're not able to enjoy it.

I don't see that as being true. Fun does not equal immersion. An experience of hurtling towards the ground with out a parachute would surely be less fun the more immersive it was. Immersion just means feeling like you are truly in the situation you are playing. That may be a fun experience, a fearful experience, a sad experience or any other emotion you can think of.

 

[diesel97]

I don't see that as being true. Fun does not equal immersion. An experience of hurtling towards the ground with out a parachute would surely be less fun the more immersive it was. Immersion just means feeling like you are truly in the situation you are playing. That may be a fun experience, a fearful experience or a sad experience.

You are wrong, how many times have you heard that xyz has broken my emersion? Well not having fun or as I calll it "not feeling it" is the same thing.

If you want to have a fan pushing hot air in your full face helmet thats fine but it doesn't mean I have too.

By the way, if you don't have a fan pushing hot air into your full face helmet then you are not a sim racer, see how stupid that sounds.

 

[PzR Slim]

You are wrong, how many times have you heard that xyz has broken my emersion? Well not having fun or as I calll it "not feeling it" is the same thing.

If you want to have a fan pushing hot air in your full face helmet thats fine but it doesn't mean I have too.

Ok, here's an example. I can set the AI to control my car whilst I'm playing Rfactor 2 in VR with my motion rig. I effectively become a passenger in the car. I load up an undulating track and a quick car that changes direction quickly. The experience starts out being a huge amount of fun. However, after a while I sometimes can start feeling a bit queasy. It becomes much less fun. I can absolutely guarantee that looking at a single screen without being attached to a motion rig would be a much more fun and pleasant experience. So one experience is much more fun than the other. Which do you think is the more immersive?

So you can have your own definition of immersion but I'll stick to the one that says immersion means to feel like you are actually in the experience being simulated.

And I didn't say you had to do anything, I just disagreed with your assertion that immersion meant fun. Play the game however you want

 

[F1Racer68]

@F1Racer68 Are they monitors like for a computer or multiple TVs? Either way, did you purchase them with the idea of multi-monitor in mind and look for ones with thin borders? I always see videos of multi-monitors but the edges are so think that in itself ruins the immersion a bit.

TVs. These days, there is very little difference. Yes, things like response time are better on dedicated monitors, but considering what you get vs what you pay, I will go the TV route every time.

Specifically I got these.....

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN28H4000AFXZA-specs

3 of these, and an older 24" Samsung TV as my 4th screen mounted above. They have an ~1/2 inch bezel.

Once you get used to the bezels being there, you actually begin to look right past them and not notice them. It also really depends on the car you are driving. With the Cadillac ATS-V.R for example, it has vertical reinforcements behind the windshiled. With the right settings, the right bezels blend in with those and the left one usually blends wiht the left A pillar.

It's never perfect, but until someone comes up with an affordable super wide, curved display it's the best we are going to get.

Here's a view of my setup. Some changes since this was taken, but the 4 screens are still the same. The small tablet PC on the right is gone now and a new button box with dashboard tablet are in it's place.

EDIT: Forgot to answer your other question. Yes, I bought them specifically with triple screen in mind. That's why I bought 3 of them. It's easiest to do if all 3 are the same make/model. I picked them up at WalMart for $170 CDN a piece. Was my ealry Christmas present (early as in I got them in October when they were on sale ).

 

[ozwheels]

You can talk immersion all you want (everyone has their own meaning) but you are not have FUN then there is no immersion.

FUN comes before EMMISION, it's a game

Yes fun comes before EMMISION.

This whole discussion is just like PC vs Console. Everyone has very strong opinions and won't ever agree. That's ok though.

 

[diesel97]

Ok, here's an example. I can set the AI to control my car whilst I'm playing Rfactor 2 in VR with my motion rig. I effectively become a passenger in the car. I load up an undulating track and a quick car that changes direction quickly. The experience starts out being a huge amount of fun. However, after a while I sometimes can start feeling a bit queasy. It becomes much less fun. I can absolutely guarantee that looking at a single screen without being attached to a motion rig would be a much more fun and pleasant experience. So one experience is much more fun than the other. Which do you think is the more immersive?

So you can have your own definition of immersion but I'll stick to the one that says immersion means to feel like you are actually in the experience being simulated.

And I didn't say you had to do anything, I just disagreed with your assertion that immersion meant fun. Play the game however you want

So if you don't have a motion rig you can't have immersion/fun? Who sets this bar?

 

[PzR Slim]

For anyone interested in getting the most immersive experience there is a great website created by Mr Pix that chronicles his journey in trying to get the most immersive experience. It's a really interesting read and has some excellent tips and tools to help you on your own journey. http://www.projectimmersion.com/

Me myself, I went with 40" TV's to give the most bang for my buck. It suffers a little from response time and probably could have got better visual quality with monitors but it is very immersive.

My HTC Vive trumps it in the immersion stakes but I reckon it will be 2nd or 3rd generation VR before we get the image quality to match triple screen set ups.

So if you don't have a motion rig you can't have immersion/fun? Who sets this bar?

Where did I say that? All I said was your assertion that for an experience to be immersive it had to be fun was incorrect. You get different levels of immersion. A single screen experience is immersive but it's not as immersive as a triple screen experience, which in turn is not as immersive as a VR experience, which in turn is not as immersive as a VR experience with motion.

 

[diesel97]

For anyone interested in getting the most immersive experience there is a great website created by Mr Pix that chronicles his journey it trying to get the most immersive experience. It's a really interesting read and has some excellent tips and tools to help you on your own journey. http://www.projectimmersion.com/

Me myself, I went with 40" TV's to give the most bang for my buck. It suffers a little from response time and probably could have got better visual quality with monitors but it is very immersive.

My HTC Vive trumps it in the immersion stakes but I reckon it will be 2nd or 3rd generation VR before we get the image quality to match triple screen set ups.



Where did I say that? All I said was your assertion that for an experience to be immersive it had to be fun was incorrect. You get different levels of immersion. A single screen experience is immersive but it's not as immersive as a triple screen experience, which in turn is not as immersive as a VR experience, which in turn is not as immersive as a VR experience with motion.

So like I said who makes these rules/standards for everyone one to follow?

 

[F1Racer68]

Nice setup @PzR Slim

So with my rig, I went a different route to get my "immersion". It's also why the monitors are 28 inch and not bigger.......

The entire rig was built around the fact that I took the driver's seat out of my old (now scrapped) 2005 Ford Focus. Road salt in Ontario means cars don't last long........ WIth that in mind, all measurements for the rig were based on that car. I went a bit crazy. I measured EVERYTHING.... stuff like:

• Height of seat from floor
• Height of center of steering wheel from floor
• Height of dashboard from floor
• Height of windshield from dashboard to roof
• Height of midpoint of windshield from floor
• Distance from seat to wheel
• Distance from seat to pedals
• Distance of seat from center of windshield
• Measurements to place stick shift (car was a 5 speed manual)

Yes, the neighbours looked at me a bit strangely while I was getting all these measurements....

I then used those same measurements to build the rig itself. Once I was done, I loaded up pCARS and the Ford Focus in the game...... (I actually caught myself reaching to close the driver's side door). My dog saw the finished product and gave me a look of "Where's my seat?"

So, yeah, everyone has their own opinion of what constitutes "immersion" and "fun", and the 2 are not mutually exclusive, nor mutually intertwined.

 

[Reiche]

M6 GTLM confirmed.

Quite impressed by this as I just didn't expect to see the GT3 and GTE/GTLM variants as two different cars in game - was afraid of some synthetic BoP stuff etc

What other "twins" could be in? Ferrari 488, Corvette (I assume there are different versions for GTLM in IMSA and GT3 in the GT Masters for example),..?

 

[F1Racer68]

Quite impressed by this as I just didn't expect to see the GT3 and GTE/GTLM variants as two different cars in game - was afraid of some synthetic BoP stuff etc

What other "twins" could be in? Ferrari 488, Corvette (I assume there are different versions for GTLM in IMSA and GT3 in the GT Masters for example),..?

Just to clarify, GTLM in IMSA is their take on GTE. Based on GTE regulations but with their own BoP applied. IMSA's GTD is based on GT3 regulations, again with their own BoP applied. There seems to be a lot of mixing up between the various GT classes by people. While they LOOK the same, there are some pretty significant differences between GTE (GTLM) and GT3 (GTD). The most noticeable one being the lack of ABS within the GTE/GTLM rules, as well as aero differences.

 

[PzR Slim]

Nice setup @PzR Slim

So with my rig, I went a different route to get my "immersion". It's also why the monitors are 28 inch and not bigger.......

The entire rig was built around the fact that I took the driver's seat out of my old (now scrapped) 2005 Ford Focus. Road salt in Ontario means cars don't last long........ WIth that in mind, all measurements for the rig were based on that car. I went a bit crazy. I measured EVERYTHING.... stuff like:

• Height of seat from floor
• Height of center of steering wheel from floor
• Height of dashboard from floor
• Height of windshield from dashboard to roof
• Height of midpoint of windshield from floor
• Distance from seat to wheel
• Distance from seat to pedals
• Distance of seat from center of windshield
• Measurements to place stick shift (car was a 5 speed manual)

Yes, the neighbours looked at me a bit strangely while I was getting all these measurements....

I then used those same measurements to build the rig itself. Once I was done, I loaded up pCARS and the Ford Focus in the game...... (I actually caught myself reaching to close the driver's side door). My dog saw the finished product and gave me a look of "Where's my seat?"

So, yeah, everyone has their own opinion of what constitutes "immersion" and "fun", and the 2 are not mutually exclusive, nor mutually intertwined.

Ha, ha! I did exactly the same with my rig before this one. Measuring everything from my car and trying to replicate it with my rig. And I can understand reaching to close the drivers door. I had something similar in VR. Had been playing for a while and felt an itch on my face, went to scratch my face and got a genuine shock when the hand in game did not leave the wheel and reach up to scratch my face. It's was such a strange sensation and made me realise just how big a deal VR could be for racing.

So like I said who makes these rules/standards for everyone one to follow?

It's common sense.

 

[diesel97]

Ha, ha! I did exactly the same with my rig before this one. Measuring everything from my car and trying to replicate it with my rig. And I can understand reaching to close the drivers door. I had something similar in VR. Had been playing for a while and felt an itch on my face, went to scratch my face and got a genuine shock when the hand in game did not leave the wheel and reach up to scratch my face. It's was such a strange sensation and made me realise just how big a deal VR could be for racing.

It's common sense.

So stage 4 or nothing.

 

[Reiche]

Just to clarify, GTLM in IMSA is their take on GTE. Based on GTE regulations but with their own BoP applied. IMSA's GTD is based on GT3 regulations, again with their own BoP applied. There seems to be a lot of mixing up between the various GT classes by people. While they LOOK the same, there are some pretty significant differences between GTE (GTLM) and GT3 (GTD). The most noticeable one being the lack of ABS within the GTE/GTLM rules, as well as aero differences.

Totally got that.. I just wonder if we'll get for example both Ferrari 488 GT3 AND 488 GTE like it seems with the BMW M6 GT3 AND the GTLM.. I was sure there are different versions for these cars, but didn't know if there are different versions for the Corvette as well.. I just guessed so because it should be like this because of the Corvette running under GTLM ruleset here and GT3 ruleset there..

(On my phone and low on battery, tried and trying to keep it short though)

 

[PzR Slim]

So stage 4 or nothing.

No, like I said play the game however you want but if you are looking for the most immersive experience I would recommend giving cockpit view with VR a go. You might have fun

 

[diesel97]

No, like I said play the game however you want but if you are looking for the most immersive experience I would recommend giving cockpit view with VR a go. You might have fun

Full circle, you are the one that is saying you can't have immersion/fun in chase cam. To each their own no skin off my back our yours

FYI you skipped all the post that didn't fit your cause: If you were forced into view that you didn't like how would you feel?

What the difference of 1,2,3,4, choices of view points?

 

[F1Racer68]

Totally got that.. I just wonder if we'll get for example both Ferrari 488 GT3 AND 488 GTE like it seems with the BMW M6 GT3 AND the GTLM.. I was sure there are different versions for these cars, but didn't know if there are different versions for the Corvette as well.. I just guessed so because it should be like this because of the Corvette running under GTLM ruleset here and GT3 ruleset there..

(On my phone and low on battery, tried and trying to keep it short though)

I think we will only get the Corvette GTE (GTLM). The GT3 version is not officially a Chevrolet owned car. I believe it was Callaway that built it and thereofre wouldhave to license it to SMS (just my guess). The GTE versiona dn the GT3 version of THAT car are quite different as a result.

As for the Ferrari 488, rumor has it we will see both versions there as well. GT3 version is already confirmed.

 

[PzR Slim]

Full circle, you are the one that is saying you can't have immersion/fun in chase cam. To each their own no skin off my back our yours

Did I, where? All I said was that other experiences were more immersive and that immersion didn't necessarily have to equal fun.

 

[diesel97]

Did I, where? All I said was that other experiences were more immersive and that immersion didn't necessarily have to equal fun.

In your opinion

So if you are not enjoying the racing, graphics, FFB, AA and everything else you still have immersion? Same thing if you are not enjoying yourself YOU have NO immersive.

Like I said who makes these rules of immersion? I stand by stage 4 or bust

 

[PzR Slim]

In your opion

No problem man, if you think looking at a single screen is more immersive than a triple screen set up or VR then more power to you.

 

[Reiche]

I think we will only get the Corvette GTE (GTLM). The GT3 version is not officially a Chevrolet owned car. I believe it was Callaway that built it and thereofre wouldhave to license it to SMS (just my guess). The GTE versiona dn the GT3 version of THAT car are quite different as a result.

As for the Ferrari 488, rumor has it we will see both versions there as well. GT3 version is already confirmed.

Now we're talking

Just checked the WEC and IMSA grid, seems like the BMW and Ferrari are the only almost identically named cars as there's the Porsches (911 RSR GTE vs. 911 GT3 R) left plus Corvette (recently discussed) and Ford (don't know about any GT3 spec)

Anyway, I'm hoping for more "twins", Porsche GT3 Cup cars maybe..

 

[diesel97]

No problem man, if you think looking at a single screen is more immersive than a triple screen set up or VR then more power to you.

I never said that, but why do think someone in chase cam can not have as much fun or have that much of an intense race as anybody else?