Project CARS General Discussion Thread

  • Thread starter Terronium-12
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Why can't you accept any not so extremely hyped comments in this thread?

EDIT: Oh wait I forgot: :indiff:



Certain people who invested in PCars may not really want or are not in the mood to actively participate in the discussion, why are you being difficult to accept this? :indiff:
I didn't say it's wrong to participate in the development discussion, I only stated that it's not a must.
People can do this decision by their own.

Clearly you thought your comment came across a certain way that it didn't, which allowed for what ever you call what you just wrote. I'm fine with average comments and I don't care if it is hype or not, hence the indifference to either. However, what bugs me is people are actually telling you ways to have input in an investment (doesn't seem like you are an investor of it) that is optimistic and rightly so. Yet you seem to have some issue with people doing the obligated duty in giving input, thus I ask "why are you being difficult". If you don't like the input factor then you don't have to contribute to it, it is really that simple. However, it is a tool that if used openly will probably be proportional to how well the game does, and more so functionality.

So I must ask, what is your issue with the forum feature that you seem to not care for... Also it was explained to you why the must do it, if you cant accept the fact then go be a brick wall somewhere else about it. However, if people are too lazy then why participate in the alpha and beta build of this game and be an investor and have to do the painstaking work of contributing, oh dear. Instead wait till the game comes out buy it or try it, don't like it then get your money back or hope they do this again, and contribute the next time around. It's a good feature and sensible due to the fact that people will only have themselves to blame if they don't like the end result. SMS is giving their skills and resources to the enthusiasts to help craft a great game (hopefully), the least people can do is make a comment or two. Asking why should they have to, ends up coming of childish and combative for no reason, other than because you can.

If I wanted to hype this game like some, I'd have it in my signature, try not to leap so much you tend to fall.
 
Yes! But not for the PS4 version... Nic Hamilton visited the SMS HQ today and gave the team some thorough live feedback and input. The list they worked out sounds absolutely awesome (it can be found in more detailed form in the forum) and Nic has some really cool ideas:

http://www.wmdportal.com/projectnews/nicolas-hamilton-visits-slightly-mad-studios/
Cool stuff. If Assetto Corsa won't release in the next 6/8 months I hope for a Project Cars PS4 version. Don't want to buy the Xbone and I don't give a damn about Drive Club.
 
Well HKS, there is good news and bad news for you: SMS are a certified PS4 developer, but there is no way in the world that pCARS will release during the next 6-8 months on PS4, I m afraid.
 
Well HKS, there is good news and bad news for you: SMS are a certified PS4 developer, but there is no way in the world that pCARS will release during the next 6-8 months on PS4, I m afraid.
Ok then, back to rFactor for another year or so.
 
They better get it out before GT on PS4.

I think the chances are high. According to the statistics I just made up, GT won't be out on PS4 until some time around 2048, by which point it will be totally unrealistic because we'll all be racing hover cars. :P
 
Yet you seem to have some issue with people doing the obligated duty in giving input, thus I ask "why are you being difficult".
I don't, did I say I do?
If you don't like the input factor then you don't have to contribute to it, it is really that simple.
Hello? This is my point, unless you mean money wise. Ever heard of being a silent partner? No? How sad...

However, it is a tool that if used openly will probably be proportional to how well the game does, and more so functionality.
I don't disagree.

So I must ask, what is your issue with the forum feature that you seem to not care for...
I have no issue with it. Why are you focusing on me by the way? I was generally speaking that it's not a must, not more, not less.

Also it was explained to you why the must do it, if you cant accept the fact then go be a brick wall somewhere else about it.
Sorry no, they can't force people do so. It's not a must, never been and will never be. What you want to do? Sue those people? :lol:
However, if people are too lazy then why participate in the alpha and beta build of this game and be an investor and have to do the painstaking work of contributing, oh dear.
I don't know, getting early builds? Being able to play before others? Having the chance of getting money back? Fun? Liking the game without liking to discuss things with people though (you must know some people don't like to talk)? Something else?

Instead wait till the game comes out buy it or try it, don't like it then get your money back or hope they do this again, and contribute the next time around.
It's peoples decisions, not yours. You can't dictate over others.

It's a good feature and sensible due to the fact that people will only have themselves to blame if they don't like the end result. SMS is giving their skills and resources to the enthusiasts to help craft a great game (hopefully), the least people can do is make a comment or two.
And this is fine, what's the problem? How is this relating to anything I said?

Asking why should they have to, ends up coming of childish and combative for no reason, other than because you can.
I'm not asking why they should have to, I recommend to reread my posts. I was just saying that it's not a must and up to their own.

If I wanted to hype this game like some, I'd have it in my signature, try not to leap so much you tend to fall.
:lol: The almighty signature...

Try to read my posts properly before you tend to fall.


Well HKS, there is good news and bad news for you: SMS are a certified PS4 developer, but there is no way in the world that pCARS will release during the next 6-8 months on PS4, I m afraid.
I fear there won't even be a PS4 version before Q2 2014. :(
 
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Here' the start of BAC mono race w/ ai at willow springs.
2mfx6k9.jpg

 
I don't, did I say I do?

You tell me to read, yet you ask this rhetorical question... I said seem to, which should resonate as, your post having an implication that you are leaning that way. You don't explicitly say and my post never pegs you as saying it, rather I say you seem to be conveying that, which leaves room for you to say no or elaborate further.

Hello? This is my point, unless you mean money wise. Ever heard of being a silent partner? No? How sad...

Um...unless the partner is a mute, I don't think any of us here can say we've heard of one. Kind of defeats the meaning behind being a partner, due to the term having to do with people communicating and coexisting on some degree or another with each other. Also what is with the sarcasm at the end of every line, are you trying to promote an ***hole like rebuke?

I don't disagree.

Yet you don't agree that it is a must to a game that is basically a potential investment to the players who help shape it via feedback...

I have no issue with it. Why are you focusing on me by the way? I was generally speaking that it's not a must, not more, not less.

Because you made your self the most prevalent, people explained to you the feedback and how it works in benefit. You kept going back to it being unnecessary (paraphrase), thus I felt inclined to respond back. Also your general phrasing wasn't as easy as you just put it.


Sorry no, they can't force people do so. It's not a must, never been and will never be. What you want to do? Sue those people? :lol:

Others have explained to you it is a contract agreement, so yeah it's a must...and no I don't want to sue the people, where do you even get such ignorant drivel from? However, if they loose their initial investment and then potential yields from the good game sales, then that person looks quite stupid. Also not to forget that it is an obligation, by agreeing to do this you are saying you will help craft a game for a bigger populous. Also making a few quick comments in a much less time than this debate between you and I, isn't hard. If one can argue uselessly about not utilizing the feedback forum SMS gives, then a few quick comments on a car, tire model or spring function isn't tough.

I don't know, getting early builds? Being able to play before others? Having the chance of getting money back? Fun? Liking the game without liking to discuss things with people though (you must know some people don't like to talk)? Something else?

Once again there is more to it, you can do all that but you still have to help build the game as your fellow piers do.

It's peoples decisions, not yours. You can't dictate over others.

No one is dictating, calm down their we aren't the gestapo you can rest easy. Yes it is a person's decision but since it is a contract obligation, it then becomes a decision that if not done will have a consequence to it.

And this is fine, what's the problem? How is this relating to anything I said?

Beside everything? Is our cultural gap getting in the way of you understanding what I'm implying? There are reasons to there being feedback, one being that the player has direct input to the game they want. Thus when the game finally is released if they don't like it, oh well they are the ones that wanted it that way due to the forum section. Likewise those who don't contribute only have themselves to blame for not utilizing their voice to help craft a game with features they would have liked. Just another point, why should you even question using the forum once again being childish and combative for no reason takes away from the people who actually care.

I'm not asking why they should have to, I recommend to reread my posts. I was just saying that it's not a must and up to their own.

I know what you said, I read it just fine. My issue is that you are saying it's not a must and have been proven wrong. If you want to break the agreement with the studio then by all means don't use the tool. It seems you misunderstand my reason for even arguing with you in the first place.


:lol: The almighty signature...

Try to read my posts properly before you tend to fall.

Once again the irony here, you exclaim I don't read your post, yet you have vast shortcomings about understanding why we are even arguing even though I laid it out for you and have shown the ability to deduct what you are getting at. Also you have been the one to make claims in the absolute form, I actually say words like seem or imply, or might and so on that give the idea that you may mean something else entirely and should elaborate to move on. Clearly I'm not the only person that thinks you have a warped reality of the why the forum should be used, I'm just the most outspoken.

I fear there won't even be a PS4 version before Q2 2014. :(

Probably wont be, but people will live.
 
Can you upgrade cars, and if you can to what extent?

No, you can't upgrade the cars. You can fully tune them to the extent of the real life cars (ie race cars have fully adjustable parts, road cars don't have adjustable aero, brakes or suspension, track cars are half way between). However, the final versions will allow you to edit the paint jobs in a Forza paintshop-style.
 
You tell me to read, yet you ask this rhetorical question... I said seem to, which should resonate as, your post having an implication that you are leaning that way. You don't explicitly say and my post never pegs you as saying it, rather I say you seem to be conveying that, which leaves room for you to say no or elaborate further.
It's no rhetorical question.
It's shouldn't seem to if you had read it properly in first instance. If we had to explicitely eliminate all possible doubt we'd have to write a book about all potential possibilities, and most likely a book about the book, about...
Um...unless the partner is a mute, I don't think any of us here can say we've heard of one. Kind of defeats the meaning behind being a partner, due to the term having to do with people communicating and coexisting on some degree or another with each other. Also what is with the sarcasm at the end of every line, are you trying to promote an ***hole like rebuke?
How can you hear of a mute?
I can as example buy shares without spelling a single word. Still makes me a partner in some way.

There's no sarcasm at the end of every line, just at some of them.
Yet you don't agree that it is a must to a game that is basically a potential investment to the players who help shape it via feedback...
It's no must, since nobody can force you. If it's useful, that's another question.
Because you made your self the most prevalent, people explained to you the feedback and how it works in benefit. You kept going back to it being unnecessary (paraphrase), thus I felt inclined to respond back. Also your general phrasing wasn't as easy as you just put it.
I see the benefits and I see how it works. I even find it a very good thing. You're loosing the focus slightly here.
It's super simple in my eyes, but ok, you don't seem to find it as easy as me. Perhaps I must learn from this and try to write simpler, although it's hard for me to do so. If you believe it or not.
Responding back was never the problem nor will it ever be, just to be clear.
Others have explained to you it is a contract agreement, so yeah it's a must...
Yeah and now since you're already trying to be smarter than me, back it up please. Quote me the part of the agreement where it says that it's an absolute must.
and no I don't want to sue the people,
It wouldn't work anyway.
where do you even get such ignorant drivel from?
I don't know mate, I'm trying to understand and read all of your posts properly. On the other hand you don't seem to put the same effort into doing so with my posts. I feel a little disappointed to be honest.
However, if they loose their initial investment and then potential yields from the good game sales, then that person looks quite stupid.
Still got a decent game for a decent price as normal member. Not making profit, yeah that would be irritating, but not dramatic actually, at least not in my eyes, don't know about you. I find it extremely interesting that it would be such a big deal for you not to make profit and can't be happy with getting a game for a very decent price, unless you're one of the big investors of course. But that's already worth being called a special case. Stupid? Investing does have risks, it's not stupid in my eyes. I see it is in fact in your eyes, but yeah, different opinions.
Also not to forget that it is an obligation, by agreeing to do this you are saying you will help craft a game for a bigger populous.
Quote me that please.
Also making a few quick comments in a much less time than this debate between you and I, isn't hard.
I normally try to avoid posting stuff too quickly before taking sure it is how I'd actually intend it to be. Sometimes it sadly doesn't work, in this case it didn't happen though.
If one can argue uselessly about not utilizing the feedback forum SMS gives, then a few quick comments on a car, tire model or spring function isn't tough.
I don't know how useless it is to talk about forcing a person to talk. It's about rights, important stuff for me. Don't know why, but you seem to have a totally different standpoint. I can't change this, but I don't need to adapt it.
Once again there is more to it, you can do all that but you still have to help build the game as your fellow piers do.
Could you please stop using all those forcing terms? Have to, must... Why not using can or similar?
No one is dictating, calm down their we aren't the gestapo you can rest easy. Yes it is a person's decision but since it is a contract obligation, it then becomes a decision that if not done will have a consequence to it.
Please quote me that obligation, I sadly can't find it and I'm very interested in seeing it. Thanks in advance.
I'm serious by the way.

Perhaps I'm blind because I can't see it, possible. So it would be very nice to help out so that everything can be cleared.
For real, do it and that will be it. No question, I would stand my man then and admit that I was horribly wrong, I'd even say sorry. Really, I'm not joking.
Beside everything? Is our cultural gap getting in the way of you understanding what I'm implying? There are reasons to there being feedback, one being that the player has direct input to the game they want.
Feedback is good, no question.

Sorry, but I honestly can't tell if the cultural difference between swiss and americans cause it. I really can't.
Thus when the game finally is released if they don't like it, oh well they are the ones that wanted it that way due to the forum section. Likewise those who don't contribute only have themselves to blame for not utilizing their voice to help craft a game with features they would have liked.
Of course, I agree.
Just another point, why should you even question using the forum once again being childish and combative for no reason takes away from the people who actually care.
The point is, how unbelievable, I wasn't questionating...
Yeah ehm... I wasn't, nope, sorry.

Childish? Well, it isn't me who calls the other person childish or a potential a**hole.
I know what you said, I read it just fine. My issue is that you are saying it's not a must and have been proven wrong. If you want to break the agreement with the studio then by all means don't use the tool. It seems you misunderstand my reason for even arguing with you in the first place.
I have been proven wrong? Where? Did you show me the part where it says it's an absolute must? Oh god I must be blind then! Please give me the link to the post where you did so and I'll surely appologize, for real. I'm not kidding.
Once again the irony here, you exclaim I don't read your post, yet you have vast shortcomings about understanding why we are even arguing even though I laid it out for you and have shown the ability to deduct what you are getting at.
I didn't say you don't read them, I said you don't read them properly. Actually that sentence just proves my point. How does it come that you missed the word properly? I'm wondering. Not reading properly perhaps?
Also you have been the one to make claims in the absolute form, I actually say words like seem or imply, or might and so on that give the idea that you may mean something else entirely and should elaborate to move on.
I could swear that "must", "have to" and "obligate" are quite absolute. Strange... very strange...
Clearly I'm not the only person that thinks you have a warped reality of the why the forum should be used, I'm just the most outspoken.
Amazing! Utterly amazing!
I wasn't talking about the why at all, but still does it get used as argument against me. This is extremely interesting, seriously. I see that we never stop learning about that weird subject called conversation. Life is truly wonderful, it really is. :)
Probably wont be, but people will live.
I don't know. Two deaths happen every second.
Can you imagine this?
Q2, that's in about 3/4 years. This makes approximately about 46'656'000 deaths. Over 46 millions! How can you guarantee that I won't be one of them? There's no guarantee for live, sadly not. :(
Am I getting off the point with this last one?





---

As a "side" note:

I find this a really elementary question for the whole project.

Is it by law definite, by agreeing on that contract/agreement, that a participant absolutely MUST take part in the development process by giving feedback?

I'm very curious about this.
 
Is it by law definite, by agreeing on that contract/agreement, that a participant absolutely MUST take part in the development process by giving feedback?
Nope. SMS even said as much, ie that members could offer as much or as little feedback as they choose...
 

---

As a "side" note:

I find this a really elementary question for the whole project.

Is it by law definite, by agreeing on that contract/agreement, that a participant absolutely MUST take part in the development process by giving feedback?

I'm very curious about this.


Strictly speaking:
If you sign a contract in which it states that you will participate in the development of the game by playing the game and giving feedback, discussing on the forum, etc... etc.
Yes, if you signed a contract you have to abide by that contract.

I mean, if you sign a contract with your employer from work in which it says you will have to specific tasks as to get your pay. You don't wonder if you can get around the working part.

Basically it's the same here. If you participate in furthering the development of the game as stated in the contract during sign up, you will get your money back with a profit (depending on game sales) as well. Hence the whole discussion was started about if it is or is not an investment in the first place.


How far SMS will take this or not remains to be seen of course. I have not seen them complain about the people who just download builds and play them.
However, if their first post after a reasonable time to know the rules is something like "You darn devs need to hurry up with the development. This game sucks and is totally not a sim, its a crappy arcade" without any further stating on which that opinion is based as would be expected. Yes, than SMS gets ticked off and may well decide to give you a ban. After all he/she should know the rules after a long time of sign up, but has not invested any time in properly aiding the development. So such a person does not add anything and all, and thus they will end up taking measures against him/her.


Edit:
And the above of Sharky of course.
 
Well, thanks for your replies.

@Sharky
That's basically how I see it. I never found the part saying it's an obligation.

@LogiForce
I see how contracts work, I just can't see where the agreement between SMS and members lists a strictly required feedback.

I personally don't think it's possible to force members to participate or to throw them out of the project for that reason, based on the current situation with the existing agreement.


Like I said, I could be wrong and it's indeed a must. That's all what my point is about. Not more, not less.
Hence the little unlucky conflict with LMSCorvette.



-----------------

I do not intend to troll the game or forum or similar, just in case somebody is wondering. I ask uncomfortable questions sometimes, yes, but not because I want to bash anything.
I like how the game is growing/developing. I can't wait for the final release. :)


-----------------

Here's a vid of the dynamic flatspots that just fall out of the tire model (nothing is prebaked). Don't mind the close to zero grip while on full skidding - the tire is a brand new version straight out of the tire dev cave, it'll get fixed naturally in due time.

You really feel the flatspots - look closely to the FFB meter (the yellow line above). So far so good.

The first part is obviously without the spots and the second part I do major damage on the tires.. (it's somewhat magnified here to say the least )

 
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Even if it is a gentleman's agreement like me testing the CSW was between me and Thomas (Fanatec), I still do think that it would be so kind as to stick to that agreement.
Also I don't know how gentlemen's agreements tend to hold in various countries like the UK. But that's not what's going down here. When you sign up with WMD for a particular project you will see a couple of forms and papers you have to read and give your agreement to. After which the payment of the membership level confirms the deal.

Maybe I just find it a bit sad that there are people that love these games as much as many of us do here, but don't help in the slightest to improve it. Even if you just use half a brain to try to explain what you think is wrong in laymen's terms.
Even worse being the kind that start a negative rant outside WMD, while having zero WMD posts. If they exist.
I dunno, maybe it is me but... it is such a unique opportunity presented to us sim racers which we should grab with both hands tightly, not letting go until satisfied.
 
When I signed up I was under the impression that my money is what they needed. If I wanted to provided feedback to the project I could and would have the chance for my ideas to be heard. I also understood it as by providing money to help develop the game I would recieve a share of the profits. Now it seems all that is changing and it is dependent on my participation. It seems when they needed the money to get off the ground everyone was welcome, but now they seem very quick to give that money back after using it for over a year.

I love the game and like the concept of community funding, but you cant get close to the end and start changing the rules. It was a finacial investment I made. Now my money wont get the same return as the guy who spent more time on the wmd fourm?


Edit: I didnt invest thinking I was going to make alot of money. I invested because I liked the idea.
 
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@Sharky
That's basically how I see it. I never found the part saying it's an obligation.
That would be because there isn't one. The idea that SMS would refund people's money and remove them from the project because they aren't posting on the forum is ridiculous. They have never even hinted they'd do something as draconian as that.

By the way, this is an excerpt from the email SMS sends when you purchase a toolpack:
You're going to join a project which is in development, with a role to play in making sure the game gets finished to the very best level of quality. Your contribution is flexible, and can range from something very small to something much more significant, e.g.:

1. Testing builds and reporting bugs.
2. Making game design suggestions and critiques.
3. Producing screenshots and/or videos to help with marketing.
4. Producing logos or other art for the website/general marketing use.
5. Creating lighting settings for use in the game.
6. Creating replay camera sets for use in the game.
7. Scripting career events for use in the game.

..these are just random examples, many more things are possible, especially as we complete and release more advanced tools.
Emphasis on the "testing builds" bit. Play a build, discover a bug, go to the WMD forum to find out if it's something common, see that a dozen other people have reported it already and you reporting it won't add any additional information to help SMS track down the cause... that's still testing.

I'd be very interested to see where in the pCARS terms of use it says that toolpacks are only for development purposes and not for Joe Average to have an alpha-stage race sim to hoon around in, while getting a return on his purchase when the game releases. SMS might as well remove 85% of the people from the game if that's the case:
WMD Forum Statistics
Threads 12,579
Posts 493,828
Members 86,388
Active Members 13,015

For the record: I purchased a toolpack because I wanted early access to the game and the potential to get a portion of my money back when the game releases. If I ever feel that I've come up with something worthwhile to contribute to the project then I will, but if I haven't then I won't. It is better for everyone that people contribute nothing than to contribute something completely stupid like grid girls or the ability to open your car's glovebox, because having to filter out the tripe takes time and effort that could be better spent actually working on the game - this goes for both SMS themselves and regular contributors on the forum. Both parties would much prefer 10 ideas with lots of potential than 100 ideas that could have come straight from the GT6 wishlist thread.
 
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Sounds like an interesting project, I wish I had known about it sooner as I would have like to have gotten involved a bit but sounds like it is to late now for that. Still if there is a need I would not mind doing some play testing and offering feedback/suggestions.
 
Even if it is a gentleman's agreement like me testing the CSW was between me and Thomas (Fanatec), I still do think that it would be so kind as to stick to that agreement.
Also I don't know how gentlemen's agreements tend to hold in various countries like the UK. But that's not what's going down here. When you sign up with WMD for a particular project you will see a couple of forms and papers you have to read and give your agreement to. After which the payment of the membership level confirms the deal.

Maybe I just find it a bit sad that there are people that love these games as much as many of us do here, but don't help in the slightest to improve it. Even if you just use half a brain to try to explain what you think is wrong in laymen's terms.
Even worse being the kind that start a negative rant outside WMD, while having zero WMD posts. If they exist.
I dunno, maybe it is me but... it is such a unique opportunity presented to us sim racers which we should grab with both hands tightly, not letting go until satisfied.
I can't disagree. :)
When I signed up I was under the impression that my money is what they needed. If I wanted to provided feedback to the project I could and would have the chance for my ideas to be heard. I also understood it as by providing money to help develop the game I would recieve a share of the profits. Now it seems all that is changing and it is dependent on my participation. It seems when they needed the money to get off the ground everyone was welcome, but now they seem very quick to give that money back after using it for over a year.

I love the game and like the concept of community funding, but you cant get close to the end and start changing the rules. It was a finacial investment I made. Now my money wont get the same return as the guy who spent more time on the wmd fourm?


Edit: I didnt invest thinking I was going to make alot of money. I invested because I liked the idea.
No worries, you'll get your part of the cake depending on what type of member you are, not depending on your wmd post count or similar.
Unless they change the eula, but that would need your agreement then. If you disagree they'd have to pay your money back or at least a part of it. I'm quite sure it would be the former, but I'm no expert.
 
...Please quote me that obligation, I sadly can't find it and I'm very interested in seeing it. Thanks in advance.
Please allow me:

T&C page 10:
"...Fees will be in respect of your contributions. PLEASE NOTE: WHATEVER YOUR POSITION YOU MUST MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO A GAME TO GET FEES FOR THAT GAME."

T&C page 13:
"In order to earn Fees you must make a contribution to the Game."

T&C p.14:
"8.2. To qualify for the Fees you will have to contribute in some way. YOU MUST MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO A GAME TO GET FEES FOR THAT GAME."


And just so that it's said again, SMS will be very lenient. My guess is that all members will get their fees.


I'm serious by the way....
:-/

No worries, you'll get your part of the cake depending on what type of member you are, not depending on your wmd post count or similar.
Unless they change the eula, but that would need your agreement then. If you disagree they'd have to pay your money back or at least a part of it. I'm quite sure it would be the former, but I'm no expert.
The EULA doesn't cover that - that's the End User License Agreement for the software. However, if you want, you can terminate your membership and get all your money back, no questions asked.
 
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However, if you want, you can terminate your membership and get all your money back, no questions asked.

That right there is the part thats seems to be getting thrown around alot. Its not just that simple. I invested money for a return on my money. After using my money for well over a year it seems now the rules want to change and if I dont like it I can have a refund? NO I want to see my profits (:lol:) Im entitled to. If they are going to refund the money with intrest maybe, but use my money for that long free? I dont think so.


Im not wanting my money back.
 
They were pretty clear when they started it that it was NOT a financial investment. You pay some money, you get access to builds. In return you give feedback, and if the game sells well you MAY get some money back.

If the game bombs we're all going to get nothing. That's the minimum you're entitled to. Nothing.
 
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