Project CARS General Discussion Thread

  • Thread starter Terronium-12
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notanexpert
So I was wondering, why is lmp1 a their one thing with formula a at tier 2? I always thought formula 1 would be the top dog in racing?
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I completely agree with this Formula A should be at the top (so does the FIA; F1 requires a Super license, the highest degree.) but, it's most likely because of the licensing (even still why are there so few LMP's)
 
F1 is in the spotlight as the pinacle of motorsport but I think WEC is on the top. I think what Andre Lotterer does is worth much more than what Alonso (which is on top of my favorite F1 drivers list) does. Just watch the 2014 race. His engineer Lena told him "to go faster" and he closed a 1 ½ minute gap to the porsche while doing a triple stint on his tires where other teams were only able to do double or even single stints. I think this was one of the best performances I ever saw (and I watch lots of races) in a race. To keep this concentration for such a long time (his triple stint was about 2 ½ hours long) and so consistent is worth so much more than what the F1 drivers do. Same goes to Rene Rast for example. His performance in the last stint of the 2014 Spa 24h was also just incredible.

And the argument of F1 is better because it is more expensive is also false. Audi/Porsche also have a budget of 200m $ per season. And the drivers earn much more than the average F1 driver. The Lemans 24h winners of 2014 all earned more than 20m $ last year according to Motorsport-total.com. And the other teams don't pay much less in lmp1.

I think F1 is seen on top because it has much more media coverage but technical and driver-wise, I think WEC should be on top.

But back to topic: I also think it mainly has to do with the official LeMans24 license.
 
I recently watched a speech of a future analyst stating that we will see the last F1 season in 2017. When i look at the developments in F1 and when i see the general lack of interest in motoring/racing/car culture in the younger generation i deem this to be happening as more probable than not.
 
blowfishrulez
I recently watched a speech of a future analyst stating that we will see the last F1 season in 2017. When i look at the developments in F1 and when i see the general lack of interest in motoring/racing/car culture in the younger generation i deem this to be happening as more probable than not.
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I wouldn't mind. Like 4 or 5 years ago I even got out of bed in the morning and stuff to watch it. My interest is nearly gone. Just watching the highlights now and then or have a look at the standings. There are far more interesting race leagues with cars related to real life, imo.
 
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blowfishrulez
I recently watched a speech of a future analyst stating that we will see the last F1 season in 2017. When i look at the developments in F1 and when i see the general lack of interest in motoring/racing/car culture in the younger generation i deem this to be happening as more probable than not.
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It will never die. It will change though.

I think there will come a day when each team has one car design with one aero package and it will be required for use in every race, regardless of circuit, with no changes allowed. No more specific noses and wings for each track. If there is one thing F1 does which is worthless in the "real world", it is the all of the money investment into aero and wind tunnel improvements for their cars. Standardization will eliminate and minimize the excessive costs of aero, saving tens of millions of dollars/euro per year for each team.
It would make teams decide prior to the season if they want to win at Monaco or Monza, Silverstone or Yas Marina.
 
You really can't compare F1 to WEC at all. They are totally different beast in their own respect. They are both very inovative and use cutting edge technology, just in different ways. F1 has more strict rules regarding design (as far as engines and body profiles). WEC Prototypes are innovative because you can have anything from a 4 cylinder to a 8 cylinder and now a FWD car. Where F1 is about getting the most out of your design within certain perameters.

Totally off topic, but I don't like trying to compare the two series directly.

Just my opinion. 👍
 
PRO_TOO
I wouldn't mind. Like 4 or 5 years ago I even got out of bed in the morning and stuff to watch it. My interest is nearly gone. Just watching the highlights here and then or have a look at the standings. There are far more interesting race leagues with cars related to real life, imo.
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Same here. I lost touch with F1 and V8 Supercars (and other sports) once they decided to go with the quick $ and move to pay TV. How many thousands of fans like me do they lose when they do this?
It does give me the opportunity to seek out other moter sport series i.e. I follow several sim racing championships and also the real life "Pirelli World Championsip" on YouTube. Lots and lots of great racing on YouTube, both sim and real, I'm a happy chap.
 
Is there a reason why there's only one Formula A car? As far as I understand, Formula A is supposed to be the pinnacle of open wheel racing in the game, and meant to somewhat emulate F1. Then why not create a couple more fantasy Formula A cars with slightly different characteristics (e.g. one could be more powerful, while the other car had more downforce or was less demanding on tires)? SMS did it for LMP, after all.
Feels like a missed opportunity to me.
 
talkin_2_me
Is there a reason why there's only one Formula A car? As far as I understand, Formula A is supposed to be the pinnacle of open wheel racing in the game, and meant to somewhat emulate F1. Then why not create a couple more fantasy Formula A cars with slightly different characteristics (e.g. one could be more powerful, while the other car had more downforce or was less demanding on tires)? SMS did it for LMP, after all.
Feels like a missed opportunity to me.
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Because Formula A is just modern F1, and there is only one F1 car per year (Not counting the different teams)
 
talkin_2_me
Is there a reason why there's only one Formula A car? As far as I understand, Formula A is supposed to be the pinnacle of open wheel racing in the game, and meant to somewhat emulate F1. Then why not create a couple more fantasy Formula A cars with slightly different characteristics (e.g. one could be more powerful, while the other car had more downforce or was less demanding on tires)? SMS did it for LMP, after all.
Feels like a missed opportunity to me.
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The Formula A is not meant to replace a F1 grid, it just completes the range of open wheel race cars available in the game and reflects modern realities of racing such as kers and drs.
 
Plus anybody who knows the difficulties of licensing F1 cars would know that it's almost impossible to even get knock offs. Hence why the FA car in this game is based on the 2011 Lotus F1 car...and why all the classic F1 cars are Lotus' as only a couple of cars seem to surpass this annoyance. (Lotus and Ferrari...which have appeared in GT5/6 and FM4/5)

Blame the dumb sods running F1 and Bernie.
 
Its got to the point now that i've heard they have even tried to stop or close down mods for some games. They absolutely hate f1 mods.
 
catamount39
Plus anybody who knows the difficulties of licensing F1 cars would know that it's almost impossible to even get knock offs. Hence why the FA car in this game is based on the 2011 Lotus F1 car...and why all the classic F1 cars are Lotus' as only a couple of cars seem to surpass this annoyance. (Lotus and Ferrari...which have appeared in GT5/6 and FM4/5)

Blame the dumb sods running F1 and Bernie.
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To be fair Codemasters has the rights to the cars. It is not unlike Porsche and EA. I don't think it is a bad deal for F1 to have their own game. I'd love to see F1 cars in all racing games/sims, but I understand them protecting the brand and Codemasters does a decent job with it. Porsche on the other hand is allowing EA to kill theirs.
 
crowhop
To be fair Codemasters has the rights to the cars. It is not unlike Porsche and EA. I don't think it is a bad deal for F1 to have their own game. I'd love to see F1 cars in all racing games/sims, but I understand them protecting the brand and Codemasters does a decent job with it. Porsche on the other hand is allowing EA to kill theirs.
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I'd guess the effect EA has on the Porsche brand is on the order of 0.000000001%. I don't think they give a chit about videogames or how their brand is portrayed in them. I can tell you that if I was out shopping for a supercar, I would not cross Porsche off my list because I never drove it in a videogame:lol:

Drivers: Eyebrows transparency issues with visor fixed (removed eyebrows layer), fixed RCF entries, materials tweaks (visor) - JIRA: WMD-6109
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When you get down to tweaking eyebrows, you know the game has to be nearly complete.:sly:
 
catamount39
Plus anybody who knows the difficulties of licensing F1 cars would know that it's almost impossible to even get knock offs. Hence why the FA car in this game is based on the 2011 Lotus F1 car...and why all the classic F1 cars are Lotus' as only a couple of cars seem to surpass this annoyance. (Lotus and Ferrari...which have appeared in GT5/6 and FM4/5)

Blame the dumb sods running F1 and Bernie.
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If F1 apparently hold the rights to every existing F1 car ever, and they're over-protective of their product, then why even make the exceptions you named?
Isn't each manufacturer/racing team the rights holder to their own car? I mean, if you want to put the Audi R18 in your game you don't talk to FIA, WEC, LeMans promoter or whatever. You talk directly to Audi, right?
Why would F1 be any different?
 
talkin_2_me
If F1 apparently hold the rights to every existing F1 car ever, and they're over-protective of their product, then why even make the exceptions you named?
Isn't each manufacturer/racing team the rights holder to their own car? I mean, if you want to put the Audi R18 in your game you don't talk to FIA, WEC, LeMans promoter or whatever. You talk directly to Audi, right?
Why would F1 be any different?
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There is a second group run by Bernie which has more control over the legalities and rights of F1 than the FIA...however for some reason Lotus and Ferrari can break out of it. Ferrari I can understand because, well Ferrari can do what it pleases...Lotus probably because...reasons.
 
rFactor had the 2006 BMW-Sauber in 2006 so there are obviously work-arounds to licensing for video games.
 
psychoazubi
F1 is in the spotlight as the pinacle of motorsport but I think WEC is on the top. I think what Andre Lotterer does is worth much more than what Alonso (which is on top of my favorite F1 drivers list) does. Just watch the 2014 race. His engineer Lena told him "to go faster" and he closed a 1 ½ minute gap to the porsche while doing a triple stint on his tires where other teams were only able to do double or even single stints. I think this was one of the best performances I ever saw (and I watch lots of races) in a race. To keep this concentration for such a long time (his triple stint was about 2 ½ hours long) and so consistent is worth so much more than what the F1 drivers do. Same goes to Rene Rast for example. His performance in the last stint of the 2014 Spa 24h was also just incredible.

And the argument of F1 is better because it is more expensive is also false. Audi/Porsche also have a budget of 200m $ per season. And the drivers earn much more than the average F1 driver. The Lemans 24h winners of 2014 all earned more than 20m $ last year according to Motorsport-total.com. And the other teams don't pay much less in lmp1.

I think F1 is seen on top because it has much more media coverage but technical and driver-wise, I think WEC should be on top.

But back to topic: I also think it mainly has to do with the official LeMans24 license.
Click to expand...
Do you truly believe this tripe?

- Factory LMP1 drivers do not earn anywhere near 20 million a year. Only the very best and long tenured might edge into 7 figures. Most salaries in sportscars are far more modest.
- Audi's LMP1 budget ($242 million per Marshall Pruett) is considerably less than a top F1 budget.
- Some of the top LMP1 drivers (Nakajima, Buemi, Davidson, Di Grassi) are F1 rejects. Others didn't have the results on the single-seater ladder to get to F1 (Jani, Hartley, Duval). Others used to be F1 drivers but could not retain drives because of natural decline due to age (Webber, Heidfeld). LMP1 requires a slightly different skill set, but it's obvious that the very best drivers are in F1. You'd be a fool to believe otherwise.
- Considering F1's outreach, audience and budgets still far surpass LMP1, it might not be farfetched to think the top technical minds still reside in F1. F1 is still the pinnacle of non-US motorsport and will attract the best of the best because of it's stature and renown.
 
SagarisGTB
Do you truly believe this tripe?

- Factory LMP1 drivers do not earn anywhere near 20 million a year. Only the very best and long tenured might edge into 7 figures. Most salaries in sportscars are far more modest.
- Audi's LMP1 budget ($242 million per Marshall Pruett) is considerably less than a top F1 budget.
- Some of the top LMP1 drivers (Nakajima, Buemi, Davidson, Di Grassi) are F1 rejects. Others didn't have the results on the single-seater ladder to get to F1 (Jani, Hartley, Duval). Others used to be F1 drivers but could not retain drives because of natural decline due to age (Webber, Heidfeld). LMP1 requires a slightly different skill set, but it's obvious that the very best drivers are in F1. You'd be a fool to believe otherwise.
- Considering F1's outreach, audience and budgets still far surpass LMP1, it might not be farfetched to think the top technical minds still reside in F1. F1 is still the pinnacle of non-US motorsport and will attract the best of the best because of it's stature and renown.
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To add on to this:
•The average person does not have the attention span to watch an endurance race.
•Many fans have a favorite driver, this is impossible in WEC because they drive in teams.
•There are even fewer lead changes than F1

Honestly I like endurance racing but F1 and NASCAR are the top dogs
 
SagarisGTB
Do you truly believe this tripe?

- Factory LMP1 drivers do not earn anywhere near 20 million a year. Only the very best and long tenured might edge into 7 figures. Most salaries in sportscars are far more modest.
- Audi's LMP1 budget ($242 million per Marshall Pruett) is considerably less than a top F1 budget.
- Some of the top LMP1 drivers (Nakajima, Buemi, Davidson, Di Grassi) are F1 rejects. Others didn't have the results on the single-seater ladder to get to F1 (Jani, Hartley, Duval). Others used to be F1 drivers but could not retain drives because of natural decline due to age (Webber, Heidfeld). LMP1 requires a slightly different skill set, but it's obvious that the very best drivers are in F1. You'd be a fool to believe otherwise.
- Considering F1's outreach, audience and budgets still far surpass LMP1, it might not be farfetched to think the top technical minds still reside in F1. F1 is still the pinnacle of non-US motorsport and will attract the best of the best because of it's stature and renown.
Click to expand...

1. Idiotic salaries is what ruins sportsmanship. It's all about the money, but the joy of winning a race against the best of the best is removed due to excessive pressure by sponsors, stake holders and team managers who demand results, both during the circus and around the circus.
F1 in my opinion has progressed from the need to have BIG BALLS OF STEEL (so big Iron Man would be jealous) to put your life on the line when you bring one of the fastest cars on the planet to (and sometimes over) its limits, ...to what it's now, the one who can get us (stake holders, sponsors, managers) the most money out of it will get to drive.

2. Yup, they need less budget cause they have less money grabbers. It's more of a pure sport in the same way F1 once was. You needed a good amount of money and possible a manufacturer's backing, but you wouldn't need to sell your soul to the devil.

3. Rejects... rejects... look at number 1. Those who can't bring in enough money for the team to buy Cuban Sigars with for the managers gets rejected.

4. Assumptions. Top technical minds are everywhere, since most design different cars for different 'jobs'. As an example, here's a single companies involvement in making different types of Toyota race cars...

 
LogiForce
1. Idiotic salaries is what ruins sportsmanship. It's all about the money, but the joy of winning a race against the best of the best is removed due to excessive pressure by sponsors, stake holders and team managers who demand results, both during the circus and around the circus.
F1 in my opinion has progressed from the need to have BIG BALLS OF STEEL (so big Iron Man would be jealous) to put your life on the line when you bring one of the fastest cars on the planet to (and sometimes over) its limits, ...to what it's now, the one who can get us (stake holders, sponsors, managers) the most money out of it will get to drive.
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F1 isn't as dangerous anymore, and that's a bad thing? And I don't see what correlation sportsmanship has with driver salaries.
LogiForce
2. Yup, they need less budget cause they have less money grabbers. It's more of a pure sport in the same way F1 once was. You needed a good amount of money and possible a manufacturer's backing, but you wouldn't need to sell your soul to the devil.
Click to expand...
Budgets by the top teams are dictated by "return on investment". Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes are willing to spend what they do because the return is sufficient for them. They'll spend every dollar for that last half tenth until they can't justify it. Likewise Audi's investment is equivalent to what they can justify spending. To imply a dichotomy between the two is disingenuous.

Oh and privateers can't be competitive at LM anymore. Without a big money backer willing to spend 100 million+ a year, you may as well not bother in P1. F1 isn't as romantic as it used to be, but neither are top line sportscars.
LogiForce
3. Rejects... rejects... look at number 1. Those who can't bring in enough money for the team to buy Cuban Sigars with for the managers gets rejected.
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Because of escalating costs, small privateers are all but obligated to increase expenditures to stay relevant and be somewhat competitive. With the sponsor market being in poor health, to compensate a budgetary shortfall this necessitates hiring drivers that bring budget in addition to their talents behind the wheel.

Factory LMP1 teams don't do this, but neither do Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari or McLaren. It's the privateers that don't have enormous financial backing that hire pay drivers: Sauber, Lotus, Manor, but also Rebellion and ByKolles. Yes, both current LMP1 privateers employ pay drivers (Kraihamer at Rebellion and pretty much the entire Kolles driver carousel).

LMP1 and F1 are birds of a feather in many ways.
LogiForce
4. Assumptions. Top technical minds are everywhere, since most design different cars for different 'jobs'. As an example, here's a single companies involvement in making different types of Toyota race cars...
Click to expand...
An assumption, but a safe one I'd say. F1 is still attractive and is by far the most renowned European-based motorsport category. There is plenty of technical talent among all disciplines of motorsport, and I'm sure that the top F1 teams have as good a pick of the cream as anyone.
 
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The discussion is relevant in that it pertains to Formula 1's analog in Pcars being relegated to second tier status. For a game that prides itself on maintaining realism, it smells a bit of SMS posturing for their partners.

I'll stop commenting regardless. As a general motorsport enthusiast, I must be making myself appear to be something of an F1 fanboy. I know it's fashionable to bash F1, but I'm really only trying to maintain some perspective.
 
SagarisGTB
The discussion is relevant in that it pertains to Formula 1's analog in Pcars being relegated to second tier status. For a game that prides itself on maintaining realism, it smells a bit of SMS posturing for their partners.

I'll stop commenting regardless. As a general motorsport enthusiast, I must be making myself appear to be something of an F1 fanboy. I know it's fashionable to bash F1, but I'm really only trying to maintain some perspective.
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Not to forget, you can totally drive multiple seasons in FA or built up a open wheeler only career and ignore everything else. Freedom of choice is a great thing isn't it?
 

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