Project CARS General Discussion Thread

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hennessey86
Have you played it and do you realise that its not finished, handling is changing week by week.
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Of course. I am entitled to my own opinion. Betas are hard to look at but I do believe that simulation levels won't dramatically change.
Plus I'm not denying that it looks good. The graphics are pretty immense and the details are excellent. I just don't believe the handling and feeling will be up to other sim's levels. :)
 
DriftStyle
Of course. I am entitled to my own opinion. Betas are hard to look at but I do believe that simulation levels won't dramatically change.
Plus I'm not denying that it looks good. The graphics are pretty immense and the details are excellent. I just don't believe the handling and feeling will be up to other sim's levels. :)
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Feel free to feel this way, no probs at all but I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this? What do you base your opinion on. Just out of interest.
 
Fun how people says that RBR is true sim and pCars is not. When WMD scrapped the BTM because it was not good enough:)
 
I wonder, will road cars driven by the AI have randomly-generated paintjobs? That was one of NFS Shift's redeeming features, it made the racing seem a bit more realistic.
 
Got all excited thinking the Focus RS was out and then got all disapointed when I realised it wasnt. So then decided to try out the Pagani Huayra, always hated this car in Project CARS, tried it when it came out and crashed it into a wall instantly and haven't driven it since. The car is a lot better these days tho is still a nightmare to drive, understeer city and too much power for the tyres to handle.



But anyway, I recorded a quick video and I'l leave it here for those of you who don't have the opportunity to try the game!
 
TheDrummingKING
I'm not seeing the connection? Or rather, the relevance.
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Okay, okay:)

I'll elaborate.

I have seen people, here and on other forums as well as on WMD forum, saying that Richard Burns Rally is a good simulator and that pCARS is not a good simulator and will never be.
I can't give any comment on the quality of neither RBR nor pCARS as I have not tried any of them.

What strikes me as odd about the sentiment that pCars can't be as good as RBR is that the physics model used in RBR was by pCars forum members and Slightly Mad Studio found to not be good enough. So work began on a new model.

In the following I will make assumptions based on my limited knowledge in simulations.

I have a little bit of experience in regulations, and this is somewhat simular to simulation.
Once I did a regulatin job on oxygen levels in a tank with bacterias, this was a pain in the... because I had no idea of how the underlying model was. Suddenly the levels would rise for no apparent reason, and when I cut the air supply to the tank the levels would fall slowly as a leaf from a tree. So I had to make a lot of fuzzy logic around my PID regulator that would change the PID parameters based on other parameters.... What A Mess.
No to case number two. Regulation of RPM on a boat motor. Here some smart professor had made a mathematical model of the process. So all that was needed was to fill in the technical data of motor, gear, shaft and propellar, and behold; the PID parameters would fall out of the equation. (If you also get a warm fuzzy feling when stuff just falls out of models, yep you are a nerd).


Okay back to my point.

I belive that in a simulator the most important thing is the physics model.

I have been following the development process on pCars on the pCars forum. With the original BTM it seemed that they started doing logic around the model to make it work. This reminded me of my experience with the oxygen levels.

With the new Seta Model I am reading a lot of: this and that should fall out of the model.(Warm fuzzy feeling again.)

Disclaimer: I only have a bachelor degree in engineering, and this car simulation stuff is on a PhD level, so I might be completely wrong. If someone who reads this can tell me so, with arguments for why, I would be very happy:)
 
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Bigbazz
The car is a lot better these days tho is still a nightmare to drive, understeer city and too much power for the tyres to handle.
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It, along with all the other street cars are getting a new tire on Friday, it fixes a lot of the problems in the cars. The Huarya and Apollo are no longer understeer monsters, the Atoms have controllable rear ends, the caterhams can actually turn, and the BAC mono gets a special tire because, for reasons not yet known, it doesn't get along with the other street tire.

BSD200
I have seen people, here and on other forums as well as on WMD forum, saying that Richard Burns Rally is a good simulator and that pCARS is not a good simulator and will never be.
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Some people think that just because the game is being made by SMS, and refuse to believe otherwise. Oh well.

BSD200
What strikes me as odd about the sentiment that pCars can't be as good as RBR is that the physics model used in RBR was by pCars forum members and Slightly Mad Studio found to not be good enough. So work began on a new model.
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The main concern from most people is no longer the tire model, but the vehicle dynamics. As it turns out, the main issue isn't actually that the weight transfer and what not are that bad, but the camera system fails to show it. Because of how it interacts with the car it swallows up a lot of the finer details. However the freecam shows that pCARS is indeed doing quite well (check my video on the previous page of some slowmo clips from the free cam to see what I mean).
 
What makes me facepalm hard is if people still come along with that "Its not a sim" BS. And if you tell them they are wrong, they come up with their "I m entitled to my own opinion" defense.

Well, heres a tip: If you re saying ducks are no birds, thats not an opinion. Thats wrong. They may not be your favorite birds, but they are still birds.

And likewise pCARS may not be to your liking, so you may find it not to be a good sim in your opinion and thats perfectly fine. But it still is a bloody sim, no matter if you like it - or not.
 
I just want to say that if you enjoy pCars enough why would you care what other people label it? What does saying it's a "sim" going to do? I've asked that before, I just have to say it again. Don't waste your energy trying to convince anyone of what pCars is, the people that've made up their minds before even trying it, or think it's impossible to improve on are dead-set in that thinking. Even if pCars became so good F1 teams started using it to build cars and set ups, people would still say, "meh."
It's not the game, it's the people.

Just get out there and enjoy the drive, no one racing title has it all right, one can have tires perfect and yet have the worst aero modeling, while another can be the complete opposite. If pCars fits your needs, wonderful, go for it and forget about expectation. pCars is pioneering its own very unique path in the racing title market, there's going to be a lot of those saying, "Hey wait, it's not doing it like [this other game] did it, that's dumb!"
Well, news flash numb nuts! you have no idea what you're talking about because you don't know the first idea about developing a video game. Please do us a favor and step away until release, then you can yell or comment on gameplay videos on Youtube all you want.

The basic truth is that a lot of these supposed "hardcore" sim racers put a lot of time, energy, sacrifice, and investment into their chosen method, that they think is the proper way (rightly so in their opinions), of experiencing sim racing. So when they see a person say that this new product is coming out that let's them experience the same thing they experience in a streamlined package with all of these extra mainstream perks, or even with a gamepad, they get offended at the thought. Make sense?

I just believe they go out on these forums and blogs to attack things like pCars because what they're actually trying to do is justify to themselves all they did to enjoy more difficult sims that are "real" or "more immersive" in their eyes, which is way too subjective to try and cram down people's throats. This is me on a psychological tip here, lol, just my observations.

But this is all just a long and drawn out way of saying, "to each their own."

Yes people, it is possible to have just as much immersion in a race on a console or a title that doesn't require a wheel, get over it.
 
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FLX1981
What makes me facepalm hard is if people still come along with that "Its not a sim" BS. And if you tell them they are wrong, they come up with their "I m entitled to my own opinion" defense.

Well, heres a tip: If you re saying ducks are no birds, thats not an opinion. Thats wrong. They may not be your favorite birds, but they are still birds.

And likewise pCARS may not be to your liking, so you may find it not to be a good sim in your opinion and thats perfectly fine. But it still is a bloody sim, no matter if you like it - or not.
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I see your point when it comes to people passing their opinion as fact (I've seen enough of that to usually pinpoint where that goes), but its abit overboard to have this mindset towards those who clearly are expressing their opinion without doing so.
 
Yeah I agree Racecar. That's lame FLX. If you have to resort to getting frustrated at people getting away with having an opinion, it's probably best to just stop paying attention, for the reasons I stated in my last post here.

Trying to categorize things these days is just too hard, you're trying to put an objective take on a subjective matter. Either we drop the whole label completely and call anything with wheels, a track, and timing a sim or we go by what the developers want their titles described as, which would mean all racing titles are sims... see how much meaning that word has now?
 
Wardez and Racecar, I'm with you guys 1000% all the way. 👍

I mean, do these people who say these stupid assumptions about a game and try to persuade others know the difference between fact and opinion? There will be people who will like PCars/GT/FM for what they like out of the games, regardless of the pros, cons, with a DS3 or a DFGT, they're still SIMS! I know someone out there won't like it, then that's your opinion, not everyone's.

This kind of crap is why I stay away from the GT section here and some FM forums, because of the stupid things that people say about the same game or down talk another one 24/7! I know they have flaws and I want them to improve the game and try to make it better, but saying outrageous and dumb:censored: crap isn't a fact and won't work. I like criticism when it's done in a reasonable manner. Not this childish way, but this is the internet, so oh well. :rollseyes:

I played GT from the beginning and FM from friends and demos and I used controllers, and I still do. I can't wait to get a wheel and better, a sim rig! But there's more important things that my money needs to go to at the moment. So should I stop playing my favorite racers because I don't have a wheel? I'll still play PCars with a DS3 and have fun until I can get a wheel one day and enjoy it on a higher level.

End rant.
 
As i am doing my own simulation, i can talk a bit about my experience in this domain.

I had talked many times to Kunos about driving simulation, tire model etc, and finding good balance for a car is very hard and long process.
(Like it is on a real car).

Doing a proper car simulation is a very long quest and require many high skills in many domain. (not only math physics but also good logic and of course your own racing experience in real life).

So, having good transmission and tire model is one thing, but you also need to fine tune each cars very carefully.

Like Bigbazz said with the Pagani Huayra and the understeer problem.
An extreme car like this must be hard to tune..


The other problem is that its almost impossible to find good informations about tires.
Because tire manufacturer are very discrete on the result of their tire.
So, when you develop your own simulation, you are pretty much on your own for certain part and only your own driving experience and feeling can give you some answers.

That is why there are so few people that can do the job correctly in my opinion.

The main mistake of some modern racing sims is to make tire that have more grip that it would in real life.
When you drive your car on a racing track for the first time, you soon understand that the tire grip on the tires is not infinite and you should carefully use the throttle when taking a corner..
 
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DriftStyle
It's not a sim in my eyes (I've read OP and the latest page). rFactor, iRacing and Richard Burns Rally is a simulator in my eyes.
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Seriously, iRacing, the game where you can't recover the back of the car when it slides ?? I've tried it during 3 months last year, some things are absolutely great like racing against other people (no other game can't compare), the graphics that have a very special touch, and great FFB ; but for the handling i prefer CARS, GTR2 and Netkar.

Did you know that the guys behind project Cars have developped GTR2 ? The game is far from finished, but even now the handling of some cars is sublime, although only a few parameters of the tires characteristics have been implemented. At the end of 2013 when Assetto Corsa and Project CARS will be out, i'll be a very pleased simracer that's for sure :cheers:
 
When I wrote my last post, I started another paragraph about my lackluster experience with RRRE, describing the massive problems I had with its FFB etc but saying that just cause I dont like it personally, I still would never say that its not a sim. Maybe that would have put my post in perspective a bit.

Its not the frequent hate against pCARS, its this often elitist mindstate in sim racing, no matter which "camp", that gets on my neves. This whole "my sim is better than your sim, so your sim is not a sim" yibbayabba. Admittedly, its much worse on RD and VirtualR than here. Maybe Wardez has a good point that its more of a personal justification for something you love. You would probably never admit that somebody elses supermodel girlfriend looks a bit better than your just beautiful sweetheart, neither. ;)

Anyway, I d say lets try to not have this BS here and lets move on. Damn, a licensing announcement from SMS to distract us would come in handy now... :D
 
What is this?
semttuloxah.jpg
 
SimonK
Some sort of glitch from old code like when a Mitsubishi appeared in online lists would be my guess.
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When I saw that I thought it was the Mercedes SLS AMG that they showed a few days ago, if you google that name it shows several results for that car.
 
wicken
When I saw that I thought it was the Mercedes SLS AMG that they showed a few days ago, if you google that name it shows several results for that car.
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That's a good call actually, that sounds a lot like a notMercedes name for the car. Not sure why it's already appearing there though, PM that guy and see what he says?
 
Oh I forgot you weren't and I thought the leaderboards weren't public.

Anyway I just checked the forum and yes, it's a notMercedes. License is not finalised yet.
 
jujunosuke
Like Bigbazz said with the Pagani Huayra and the understeer problem.
An extreme car like this must be hard to tune..
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I'm curious if you guys have seen episode one of the new series (19) of Top Gear? The car is the featured car. The entire episode is available on YouTube. I highly doubt Top Gear is tuning cars to make them drivable.
 
I wouldn't have called it an understeer "problem", it has a lot of understeer but it was still definitely more on the realistic side than anything else, and with proper driving the Huayra is clearly very fast.

From what is said in the last page it will have a new tyre put on that will improve things, but I wouldn't call the understeer a problem, just perhaps an overly strong characteristic. If anyone can really watch that video I posted and still deny they were looking at a very promising racing simulation game then I would find it hard to believe it is anything other than people disliking it because of its name or because of who developed it.

Project CARS is coming along and is very promising, it isn't there yet but a lot of things are falling into place, and if you watched my video close enough that lap alone should tell you that a lot of things have been done right with that car, its just in need of some more refinements (such as that new tyre).
 
DaveTheStalker
I'm curious if you guys have seen episode one of the new series (19) of Top Gear? The car is the featured car. The entire episode is available on YouTube. I highly doubt Top Gear is tuning cars to make them drivable.
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They talking about the car ingame not in real life I think.
 
So is anyone looking forward to a Mercedes-Benz SLS 6.3 AMG in pCARS?
Cause someone saw a Staro-Motors SRS 6.3 in the leaderboards today.
Don't worry about the license stuff. Mercedes was the unnamed German manufacturer of a while back that contacted SMS themselves. ;)
 
LogiForce
So is anyone looking forward to a Mercedes-Benz SLS 6.3 AMG in pCARS?
Cause someone saw a Staro-Motors SRS 6.3 in the leaderboards today.
Don't worry about the license stuff. Mercedes was the unnamed German manufacturer of a while back that contacted SMS themselves. ;)
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Yes... Yes... YES! :D
 

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