PS3 General Discussion

[Solid Fro]

Just wondering is there a way to convert the PS3's optical out into a pc style outlet? (like 3mm jacks for front and rear) because I want to use my PC speakers with it??

Also is there a way to convert optical out to normal coaxial (red and white) input plugs?? This way I can use it with my amp...

You will need a reciever that can do the conversion.

 

[harrytuttle]

... except the players themselves.

Again: Using the analog outputs is not the right answer. Using HDMI v1.3 is what's being marketed (and demonstrated, which I'm sure you must remember, since you're the one who keeps bringing up demos).

Which is yet another indicator you do not understand what lossless audio means. If you did, you wouldn't say that. There is nothing 'magical' about Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD, other than they do a remarkable job of compressing the same audio tracks that you get from lossless uncompressed PCM which has been available for a very long time. In fact, the Dolby TrueHD tracks that have been out for some time on HD DVD are mostly just 16bit audio, while the PCM tracks on Blu-ray are in 24bit, so in this case the PCM sounds even better then the Dolby TrueHD track... Amazing how one can listen to something that is supposedly just vaporware.

You really don't read anything anyone writes, do you? You still don't know what I've been getting on about. I know BD/HDDVD discs have been released in DTS-HD/DolbyHD; I know there are players that can play it. That's all irrelevant to what's actually under discussion. Until you actually confront what's been said, I don't think anyone should take you seriously for anything.

As for what defines "lossy" and "lossless", your superficial understanding is greatly confusing you. By definition, anything recorded instantly suffers some loss of fidelity, whether it's analog or digital. Loss from analog recording is difficult to avoid since noise from the circuitry itself is nearly impossible to isolate. Accuracy of recording has gotten better over the decades, but the expense of high-fidelity recording is often too expensive, especially in the face of digital recording's far cheaper method (which the general pop-music-loving public can't hear the difference anyway). Playback then becomes another hurdle, only complicated by the increased number of stages the soundwave has to go through.

Digital recording is by far the worse of the two types of recording, but much easier to rectify. To get a clear understanding of why even an "uncompressed" 96kHz/24-bit recording loses a fair amount of sound information, you'd have to understand how Fourier transforms & series works (primarily, the DFT & FFT), and that only refers to the time-sampling, not the word size which is another conversation altogether. Since you haven't any experience with that (nor, apparently, how the human ear responds to sounds), I can understand why you confuse "lossless" with the more current and common, but incomplete, definition of a PCM audio stream that has been compressed but whose data can be completely reconstructed without any loss of data from the original form (and if you paid attention to the links about 3 messages earlier, you'd have seen MLP, SACD, and true analog). The fact of the matter is that once an analog signal has been processed into digital form, it is in actuality "lossy" compared to the original source.

I'm going to listen to some more lossless HD audio, its a good deal more enoyable then this discussion.

Then stop spouting garbage. You make the Bush administration look downright legit.

No. As you said, this "Home" may end up like The Sims. Living out your life, as in day to day habits, in a video game. Playing some racing game is not living out your life. I personally think there is no more worthless of a genre in video gaming than the "Life Simulators."

I don't think it will be anything like the Sims. The way the videos portray it, it looks more like a glorified mall (which, coincidentally, is where some people actually spend most of their lives ). Home looks like a combination of the eventual interface for the PS3 and a mall where you can get all your software/entertainment stuff (games, movies, music) and then share it with people you meet at this virtual mall.

What Surround Sound Systems are you lot using for your PS3's, and how much did the Surround Sound System you brought cost you?

Arcam AVP700
Arcam P1000
Audyssey EQ
Snell AMC2000 (front L, C, R)
NHT Evolution L5 (rear L, R...soon to be replaced)
Rel R505 (which needs a sibling)
Vidikron Vision70 w/Cinewide (not Autoscope)
Screen Research ClearPix XMask 2.35:1 (w/16:9 masking)

About $35,000, not including any installation, construction, or other stuff (DVD player, control, etc.).

Like I said earlier: GTHD looks fantastic in 2.35:1. 👍

 

[Pebb]

I've been wanting to say this for a long time, us Europeans can finally get are PS3's next week, even if it is 1 week and 4 days until the European PS3's come out.

 

[DuckRacer]

I've been wanting to say this for a long time, us Europeans can finally get are PS3's next week, even if it is 1 week and 4 days until the European PS3's come out.

Ok, it comes out not this Friday, but next Friday. Not exactly this week. 💡

 

[livemusic]

Ok, it comes out not this Friday, but next Friday. Not exactly this week. 💡

He said next week...

 

[slackbladder]

I just look at it as 9 working days to go (8 really as I have Friday off..woo-hoo).

 

[Max_DC]

I ordered mine from amazon with Overnight Express... According to amazon it will arrive on 22nd

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Again: Using the analog outputs is not the right answer. Using HDMI v1.3 is what's being marketed (and demonstrated, which I'm sure you must remember, since you're the one who keeps bringing up demos).

Again you are mistaken. You can get the lossless audio tracks without needing HDMI.

For example, with HD DVD, when you select PCM, your player decodes the lossless audio to LPCM internally. At that point it's 5.1. If you had HDMI you'd get the 5.1 LPCM directly into your receiver/processor.

By selecting LPCM output your player knows that SPDIF is limited to 2-channel uncompressed audio, so it down mixes the 5.1 LPCM on-the-fly into 2.0 for your regular digital coax.

HDMI is required if you want to pass on the compressed form of the lossless audio tracks (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD) instead of letting the player decode them first, or if you want to pass on an uncompressed 5.1 LPCM track.

I know BD/HDDVD discs have been released in DTS-HD/DolbyHD; I know there are players that can play it. That's all irrelevant to what's actually under discussion. Until you actually confront what's been said, I don't think anyone should take you seriously for anything.

The problem is you keep changing what you are saying. You started this all off with an argumentative rhetorical question, which for someone who says they should pay attention to what is being said, I never said I was even listening to DTS-HD. I said, and what is a fact, is that lossless HD audio is available to listen to, and has been for some time. Furthermore, if you used a receiver/processor to decode the Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD tracks, they would sound the same as the lossless PCM track. In basic terms, Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD are simply the compressed form of the same tracks.

You seem to be getting caught up into semantics because apparently your pissed that no one has released a receiver or external processor that decodes DTS-HD - and thus you claim its all just hype and vaporware.... and now it also appears you do not like the way the industry uses the term lossless... but that's an entirely different debate for which I could care less about. If you do not like that the term lossless is used take it up with the companies and organizations that use it.

Now with your latest post you are getting completely off track by discussing the advantages of some forms of analog recording, which makes no sense at all, as these are not even available on HD DVD, or Blu-ray. It's almost like you are having an argument with yourself, as no one even brought up the topic of analog recording methods.

I will though remind you, that lossless, or however you want to call it, PCM tracks are head and shoulders better than any 'lossy' Dolby Digital, or DTS track, and in fact Dolby Plus even sounds "flat" and harsh by comparison. Lossless PCM audio like those available on most Blu-ray and HD DVD titles offers a far superior audio experience with fine nuances and superb musical timbre. More to the point, they are the same audio track that you would be listening to if you did have a receiver that decoded the Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD tracks.

So, once again, to answer your original question for the umpteenth time, YES, I and anyone else can listen to "lossless" HD audio via PCM (as the term is regularly used to distinguish between formats), ... and it sounds much, much better than any equivalent Dolby Digital and or DTS track.

If you insist on continuing this argument, feel free to PM me. Otherwise I wont be responding any longer to your remarks on this subject, as you have already taken what was a simple topic that related directly to the PS3 and this thread, and have now taken it into the realm of acoustic recording engineering philosophies and bitterly arguing over semantics with no regard to how their meanings were even used in the discussion. 👎

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Why is there not a lot of talk about LittleBigPlanet!? This game is absolutely REVOLUTIONARY. There is nothing like it, it's probably one of the most innovative ideas in all gaming right now, and NO ONE is talking about it!?

 

[Robin]

Why is there not a lot of talk about LittleBigPlanet!? This game is absolutely REVOLUTIONARY. There is nothing like it, it's probably one of the most innovative ideas in all gaming right now, and NO ONE is talking about it!?

Hmm, yeah why is no one here talking about it, it received such high praise at GDC, I think Home must have overshadowed it.....

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

It sounds interesting in a sim kind of way, but isn't it still a long way away from being released?


I just watched the trailer for Flow for the first time... that looks really interesting, I especially liked the sounds! Nice to see games that are not all about high speed mayhem and violence.

It sort of reminded me of a game called "Snake" that I used to play on my Pet Commodore back in the late 70's. The more mice you ate the longer you got, until it was next to impossible to avoid biting yourself.

Anyone here played Flow, and what do you think? Is it worth the purchase?

 

[LaBounti]

I found an 720p mp4 version of the Home trailer, hoping PSStore releases one in better quality. I want the LittleBigPlanet 720p trailer in mp4. To have on my Ps3(SD card)

Its due out in the Fall and the Blu ray version in 2008 with all the best user created levels on it. could end up in the 1000's. I wonder if you can recreate the original SMB level 1-1

 

[Earth]

I

Its due out in the Fall and the Blu ray version in 2008 with all the best user created levels on it. could end up in the 1000's. I wonder if you can recreate the original SMB level 1-1

Yes thats one of the great things about Little Big Planet, the ability to create game levels from popular games like Super Mario Brothers.

If there is one thing I would add to Little Big Planet it would be some sort of enemies to add to your level, even something as simple as a Super Mario 'Goomba' would be great. I'm wanting there to be a way that you can 'lose' during the level that will make you restart from the beginning, like making contact with an 'enemy' or falling into a 'hole'.

But even if they dont have the above its still going to rock

 

[LaBounti]

There could be a lot they didn't show us. Enemies would be a must and some sort of collectible other than the giant fruit. I also guess you can make your own classic prince of Persia type levels.

 

[icelt]

Couple of random questions...

1) Anyone see a big up side to the recent statement that IBM has begun 65-nm cell production? I assume this will only help the electronics working life due to less heat generation, are there any other known/predictable benefits? http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4920&Itemid=2

2) (Just noticed this question seems pretty well addressed by its support of multichannel PCM).

Anyway, just some stuff my brain's been chewing on while I decide when to dive in purchase wise.

 

[harrytuttle]

Again you are mistaken. You can get the lossless audio tracks without needing HDMI.

For example, with HD DVD, when you select PCM, your player decodes the lossless audio to LPCM internally. At that point it's 5.1. If you had HDMI you'd get the 5.1 LPCM directly into your receiver/processor.

This brings me back to the beginning of this argument:

Are you kidding? It's been hyped for almost two years (primarily from Yamaha & Denon), and there's yet to be a single preamp/processor on the market that can decode it.

Read those lines, and this time, try to understand it. It's not magic, but somehow those words relate exactly to what you're rambling on about.

By selecting LPCM output your player knows that SPDIF is limited to 2-channel uncompressed audio, so it down mixes the 5.1 LPCM on-the-fly into 2.0 for your regular digital coax.

Again, countered earlier:

I'm sure what you're hearing is better, but it's not DTS-HD. This picture should explain things a little better:

See the small box near the center labeled "DTS-HD Transcoder"? That's what's getting between you and true HD audio. That little box converts DTS-HD down to 1.5Mbps DTS. That's twice the normal 768kpbs DTS rate, but still lossy-compressed, and still not DTS-HD (it's not even 96kHz/24-bit). This link should summarize it all for you.

Take the time to look at that image. Keep in mind it's from DTS own web site.

The problem is you keep changing what you are saying.

I haven't changed a single thing. Again: reading comprehension. Bone up on it.

You started this all off with an argumentative rhetorical question, which for someone who says they should pay attention to what is being said, I never said I was even listening to DTS-HD.

Neither did I. But this is the problem that you started:

I'd also add that most also appear to have little to no understanding about the technology, and I have very serious doubts that most have decent set-ups that are properly calibrated. While that wasn't necessarily a key requirement with previous consoles, with 1080p & multi-channel HD audio games things are quite different.

If the reviewer isn't playing on a decent display and using an appropriate audio system that takes advantage of what these games are capable of, then they might as well not review the games at all, or at least limit their remarks to just gameplay, and not graphics & sound. At the very least, they should make it clear to readers what A/V system they are using to review them on, so that readers can take that in account how this may have affected their ratings.

You suggest reviewers to listen to multichannel HD audio formats. How exactly do you plan on them doing that?

You seem to be getting caught up into semantics because apparently your pissed that no one has released a receiver or external processor that decodes DTS-HD

At no point did I offer my feelings about whether any product was released. Please back this up.

- and thus you claim its all just hype and vaporware....

At no point did I say that the format was vaporware. Please back this up.

and now it also appears you do not like the way the industry uses the term lossless...

At no point did I offer my opinion on what the industry calls anything (or even mention "industry" in any of my posts). Please back this up.

Now with your latest post you are getting completely off track by discussing the advantages of some forms of analog recording, which makes no sense at all, as these are not even available on HD DVD, or Blu-ray.

It was an explanation -- to you, since you obviously needed it -- of the terms you were using in your own posts. Your massive lack of understanding of the technology involved is enabling you to put out unsubstantiated garbage.

I will though remind you, that lossless, or however you want to call it, PCM tracks are head and shoulders better than any 'lossy' Dolby Digital, or DTS track, and in fact Dolby Plus even sounds "flat" and harsh by comparison. Lossless PCM audio like those available on most Blu-ray and HD DVD titles offers a far superior audio experience with fine nuances and superb musical timbre. More to the point, they are the same audio track that you would be listening to if you did have a receiver that decoded the Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD tracks.

Nice. What brochure did you copy that from?


I have to say that you have real problems when it comes to properly responding to arguments, deciphering the English language, and the ability to back up any statement. I hope you don't try to discuss anything else that might be above your head. God knows who you might piss off next. I'll continue to correct you, and I encourage others to do so, too. Maybe one day you'll learn to think before you type.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

One thing is for sure, I feel exactly the same way about you... and it’s clear by your constant determination to escalate this argument, and the way you have responded in other threads, your only goal is to do just that... argue, no matter how off topic, or unreasonable you get.


Oh, and if you bothered to read my posts clearly enough I already explained what thousands of fellow HD DVD and Blu-ray owners already know as far as how to listen to multi-channel lossless HD audio formats... and without needing a receiver/processor with Dolby TrueHD and/or DTS-HD decoders, but clearly you already have your mind made up and nothing short of someone hand holding you through the process is going to change your mind.

 

[Robin]

I just watched the trailer for Flow for the first time... that looks really interesting, I especially liked the sounds! Nice to see games that are not all about high speed mayhem and violence.

It sort of reminded me of a game called "Snake" that I used to play on my Pet Commodore back in the late 70's. The more mice you ate the longer you got, until it was next to impossible to avoid biting yourself.

Anyone here played Flow, and what do you think? Is it worth the purchase?

I refer you to some great feedback Jeremy Ricci gave on flow earlier in this thread.... 👍 oh and Viper Zero..

I've got flOw, and while it's not groundbreaking, it is very fun, and if you don't mind dropping the 8 dollars, if you play it from time to time, it's very much worth it.

I played last night for about two hours right off the bat, I just couldn't stop playing, evolving is pretty different each time you play, it's very fun, and with different types of speceis, it's really interesting.

If you're referring to the flash game, then yes, for the most part.

Improvements include:

Full Sixaxis control (which works wonderfully)
Awe inspiring visuals, a true work of art
4 New "forms" to evolve into
Full 1080p support
THX Certified Audio
Awesome music and ambeint sounds


The game saves after each new "form" and you have the option to change forms at any time, though, changing forms will start you back from the top of the level from square one.

The Tilt controls work WONDERFULLY. They take some getting used to, but they work extremely well, very responsive and accurate.

If you don't mind blowing $8, then pick it up, if you're a penny pincher or really want to get your money's worth, I wouldn't recommend it. It'll last you a good few hours the first time, as you'll want to explore each type of creature and evolve, but after that, you won't play much, unless you're like me, lol.

Thanks for the info Jeremy Ricci 👍

I cant wait to download flOw because Ive seen some videos and the sound effects and soothing appeal are amazing on this game, its more like a work of art screen saver but with added interest. The fact you can play multiplayer to makes it really cool (how does that work by the way?) I can understand how some people would think its boring but I could see myself playing if for hours, swaying the sixaxis left..... right, I would probably lul myself to sleep!

Another one thats coming up is Super Rub a Dub which is based on the E3 tech demo and it uses full six axis support. That one should be great aswell.

Its a slight pity that these are the only type of games now for full sixaxis use but major games will start to use it more and more im sure.

Flow has co-op play. It's pretty cool to have your friends over to play and have two fishies going on at the same time.

I wish Tekken looked just as good as VF5 does.

Personally I think it is well worth the purchase because of the uniqueness of the game and the calming nature of it all.....

Robin

 

[Pebb]

He said next week...

Did Duck forget about the time difference, anyway does anyone know any good USB and Blue Tooth headsets that work on the PS3, but cost between £20 to £45.

 

[slackbladder]

Take a look at this thread. It's at the Offical US Playstation forums. They are US models unfortunately but they might be helpful.
Example, the Samsung WEP-200 works with the PS3 and costs £33 at Amazon.co.uk Amazon

 

[opendriver]

Or the plantronics 320 @ 22£

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000BND4J0/?tag=gtplanetuk-20

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Personally I think it is well worth the purchase because of the uniqueness of the game and the calming nature of it all.....

Thanks JR & Robin! 👍

does anyone know any good USB and Blue Tooth headsets that work on the PS3, but cost between £20 to £45.

We have a thread on GTP on this:

• Webcams, Bluetooth Headsets & USB Blutooth Dongles for use with PS3's

However, its in its infancy, and needs more input from others.

The link slackbladder provided is going to be more useful I think, but if you find some worthwhile headsets, please share your thoughts on them in that thread. That said, like opendriver, I would also recommend Plantronics. Just keep in mind, if you are wanting to get a bluetooth ear piece instead of a USB headset, the talk time on most Plantronics models is half (~3.5 hours) of what most bluetooth ear pieces offer (~7 hours).

Also, for sound quality and avoiding dropouts, its hard to beat a wired USB headset. the problem is that you'll be tethered to your PS3.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I decided to buy the memory card adaptor for the PS3, but was surprised it did not come with the necessary USB cable.

I assume I can use the same USB cable used to charge the SIXAXIS controllers?

 

[DuckRacer]

I decided to buy the memory card adaptor for the PS3, but was surprised it did not come with the necessary USB cable.

I assume I can use the same USB cable used to charge the SIXAXIS controllers?

Yes.

Also, God of War 3 has been unofficially announced and will run at 1080p with rumble support.

And to top this all off, here is Sony's FAQ to developers about PS Home. It has 78 questions and answers. It's a good read - I suggest everyone to check it out.

 

[UnoMOTO]

Ferrari And System 3 Preparing Challenge

Ferrari has changed its stodgy ways and started to embrace the game industry. After not wanting to release their license to Sony for the Gran Turismo series for years, they've finally given in and allowed their cars to appear in the fifth installment. And now, Ferrari and System 3 have announced they've landed the rights to publish Ferrari-based games on the PS3, Wii, DS, and PSP. Details are few and far between at this point, but we do know the games will boast "real cars, real tracks and true Ferrari racing dynamics." The game in question right off the bat? Ferrari Challenge.

Looking at the selected platforms, it seems clear they plan to present the most fully-realized Ferrari title for the PS3. It's being "developed to maximise the technology in the new console format such as a 16-player feature rich simultaneous online mode with elements not yet seen in any race game to-date." Sounds good to us. As for the Wii version, it's no surprise to learn that they'll be taking advantage of the motion-sensitivity of the Wii-mote. And finally, the handheld titles will focus on some multiplayer fun by utilizing the wireless and ad-hoc play. Again, no real surprise there. Tap into each platform's strengths, that's what we say.

We don't have much beyond that basic information at this time, but System 3 is preparing a preview session - in Ferrari's home town, Maranello, no less - for the international press. This year is the company's 60th anniversary, so that town in Italy wouldn't be a bad place to be for that event...well, Italy is probably never a "bad place to be," but whatever.

"Video games and racing have been my two passions during the twenty-five years that I've been in the business," said System 3's CEO, Mark Cale. "Finally the two have collided and I'm immensely proud to be bringing the Ferrari Challenge to market this year. We have invested in the best development talent in the industry and I'm confident that the game will be even more impressive than the license."

They may have some serious competition in the form of Project Gotham Racing 4 and Gran Turismo 5, but we get to race in all kinds of Ferraris. How bad can that be?

link

More PS3 racing....YES!

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Nice find! I'll definitely be adding this to my wish list should this, or something similar come out for the PS3.

Thanks!

 

[slackbladder]

New Ratchet and Clank video -http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/10034
There's a HD version too.
Looking good!

 

[DuckRacer]

New Ratchet and Clank video -http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/10034
There's a HD version too.
Looking good!

Looks interesting. 👍

EDIT: Now I can cure cancer.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/772/772947p1.html

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Looks interesting? Try looks amazing. If this is the product of the progression of the Resistance engine, and Insomniacs knowledge of the PS3, then the next Resistance should look a little better, who knows. But the animation, color, action, and effects (not to mention character models) are top notch, very very impressive.

 

[Dead_Poetic]

Looks interesting. 👍

EDIT: Now I can cure cancer.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/772/772947p1.html

Wow, that is awesome. Very very awesome.