PS3 General Discussion

[slackbladder]

PGR3 renders around 2million polygons per frame x 30 fps = 60million per second. A far cry from the "estimated" 500m, and thats 60m at 30 fps. Does PGR3's models and city's look blocky?

Yeah. I think most sane individuals regard that Inquirer piece as BS, at least the conclusions it draws if nothing else.

 

[Sprite]

Heavy Rain Interview
The secret behind one of E3's better surprises, gameplay details, and just who is that actress with the gun anyway?

June 7, 2006 - An impressive Wink "surprise" demo at this year's E3, Heavy Rain grabbed the attention of a lot of curious show-goers thanks to its excellent visuals, believable actress, and the fact that it's an all-new adventure game from the same folks that brought us 2005's award-winning Indigo Prophecy.

Unfortunately for most of us, a lot of information about the new game wasn't readily available at the show. To help straighten things out, we spoke with the France-based development team, Quantic Dream. Founder and CEO David Cage, COO and Executive Producer Guillaume de Fondaumière, and Lead Character Designer Thierry Prodhomme all chimed in with answers (and allusions) to a number of our most immediate questions. Here's what they had to say:

IGN: The Heavy Rain demo was definitely one of the more impressive games in Sony's booth at E3, how long had the team been working on it prior to the show?

Guillaume de Fondaumière: In fact, we spent less than three months to put the demo together from scratch, which includes developing the PS3 engine, writing the script, making the auditions to find the actress, defining the Mo-Cap techniques and doing some basic R&D for the tongue and hair.

Initially, this demo was a purely internal technical prototype that was not supposed to be shown outside the company. Our original goal was just to define if it was possible to create a next-gen character able to express complex emotions and what it would take on a technical point of view. David Cage wrote a script where the actress would go through different emotions in just a couple of minutes, from the very shy and naïve actress of the beginning to the drama at the end with real-time tears. He also wanted to know if we could make the audience listen to her, care for her and react to her emotions in a similar way than with a real actress.

Sony saw our work-in-progress and asked us for the permission to show it in its booth at E3 to show what could be done in matter of virtual actors on a PlayStation 3. The challenge was that we were only a few weeks away from E3 when the request came n and had not planed to finalize "The Casting" before the end of June.

This video is thus just a technical demo showing only what we were able to create in a limited amount of time. We expect to significantly raise the quality of our characters for our next games. We usually do this type of internal prototype to learn something. The Casting showed us that having a real acting performance with a strong emotional component was now something achievable, although we still have a lot of work to reach the quality bar we are aiming for.

IGN: What resolution was the piece running in? 720p? 1080i? 1080p?

Fondaumière: The demo ran in real-time during E3 on the latest PlayStation 3 development kits on 720p resolution. We have not defined yet what the final resolution of Heavy Rain will be.

IGN: Who was the actress in the lead? She did a pretty good job

David Cage: Aurelie Brancilhon is a French-American actress we met during the audition for this prototype in Paris. I asked her to learn some lines of the final scene of Kill Bill 2, a scene where the actress goes from tears to anger, to see how she could play with emotions. Aurelie was really shy when she came into the room for the casting, and the second she started to play her part, she kind of transformed -- she literally became another person in a few seconds. I was so impressed by her performance that I decided to write a script based on this simple idea to recreate the impression she gave me during this audition and her ability to create a world through acting.

Aurelie is a very talented actress who trusted us enough to allow us to pretend to recreate not only her likeness but also her performance. I am extremely pleased today because the demo was seen by a lot of directors in the movie industry who were impressed by her work and want to collaborate with her.

IGN: Had she worked with your team previously and will she be in the final game? Or was she just onboard for "The Casting?"

Cage: We just met Aurelie through the audition we organized for this prototype. Given the great performance she delivered, I definitely want to give her a role in Heavy Rain (the stupid director in the demo has been fired Wink)

IGN: The animation in her face was fantastic but the lip-synching looked like it wasn't quite finished. What kind of technology is the team using to create this kind of character emotion?

Thierry Prodhomme: This demo is just our first test. We are in the middle of our R&D and artistic research on virtual actors, so we are still far from the final result (although the audio in the AVI is slightly desynchronized compared to the real-time 3D version running on PS3).

Creating emotion on a virtual actor requires the combination of many elements. Graphics or animations are just some of them. We tried to work on the lighting, the directing, the script, the animation of hair, her tongue, and her fingers. It is really the consistent combination of all these elements that create emotion. This is why it is so difficult to achieve.

From a technical standpoint, we used facial motion capture (Vicon Peak's new generation MX40 cameras and system), combined with a muscle system to emulate the complex and subtle moves in the face. We experimented with different things on the lips especially. We wanted to find a way to emulate the elasticity of the tissues and the insane amount of muscles we have in this small area. Having more rigid lips would have given a better short term result, but again, the purpose of this prototype was really to experiment new solutions. The visual result is of course not satisfying yet, but we learnt a lot in the process.
Most techniques and technologies used in this process are proprietary and I cannot say too much about it at this point.

IGN: With that kind of detail on individual characters, how many people can we expect to see populating an environment at once?

Cage: We currently work on massive crowds with a high level of realism, so we plan to have a lot of populated environments in the game. All characters will have this level of quality but we will use techniques like LOD (level of details depending on the distance) to focus the resources on what the player can really see.

IGN: On to game particulars -- is this a direct sequel to Indigo Prophecy? How strong a tie does it have to the original game?

Cage: Heavy Rain is not a sequel to Indigo Prophecy. It is a completely new game with a new story and new characters. Of course, we will build on what we learnt from Indigo Prophecy, but we hope to break new grounds, explore new possibilities and create a very unique emotional experience.

IGN: Heavy Rain sounds like the type of moniker that could have a lot of meanings -- what is the significance behind its title and what exactly is the game about?

Cage: I can't unfortunately reveal too much at this stage on the game. Keeping the story secret is a part of the experience. All I can say is that Heavy Rain will be a very dark film noir thriller with mature themes.

IGN: How much of the story will be grounded in reality? Will it be heavy in the supernatural or science-fiction realms?

Cage:The concept of Heavy Rain is to offer real-life situations with real characters. There are no supernatural elements in the story.

IGN: What sort of improvements to the adventure-style gameplay system are using to take advantage of next-gen technology?

Cage: Indigo Prophecy already brought a lot of new features to the traditional adventure genre, including the Action system, MultiView, Bending Stories, etc. Heavy Rain will include features like advanced physics and AI, realistic characters and living environments. We have done a lot of analysis to see what worked and what didn't on Indigo Prophecy (I wrote a lengthy post-mortem that will soon be published by Developer Magazine) and we intend to raise the bar in terms of user experience in Heavy Rain.

IGN: What kind of interface can we expect to see?

Cage: We want to continue to explore new possibilities regarding interface and interaction. We experiment different solutions to make interface an important component for immersion rather than just a remote control.

IGN: Will there still be a time-sensitive conversation system? Are you going even more complex with it ala Mass Effect?

Cage: Transforming dialogues into actual gameplay rather than boring cutscenes is definitely one of the missions we gave ourselves. That's all we can say for now.

IGN: How interactive do you plan on making the environments?

Cage:All environments will be fully interactive.

IGN: Will Heavy Rain use multiple playable characters like Indigo did? How many people can we expect to control?

Cage: Heavy Rain will offer a different system compared to Indigo. I do not want to divulge further at this stage as the character control mechanism is an essential part in playing Heavy Rain. But yes, the player will have the possibility to control different characters.

IGN: One of our few gripes with Prophecy was the it was on the short side -- how long of a game will Heavy Rain be?

Cage: I personally believe that more and more players think that 10 hours is the right kind of play time for a game. (We have had a lot of positive feedback on the possibility to replay Indigo Prophecy by trying different paths and actually changing the story through player's actions). In Heavy Rain we will of course keep this possibility of changing the story depending on your actions, but the game will be much more "replayable" than Indigo Prophecy is as we will offer a story that can be bended far more).

IGN: Episodic content is becoming more and more popular with games like SiN and Half-Life 2. Any plans to allow for such a thing in Heavy Rain or any downloadable content at all?

Cage: Quantic Dream is one of the teams that has spent most time thinking about episodic gaming (Indigo Prophecy was initially written as an episodic game) and we are regularly consulted on the matter. Heavy Rain however will not be episodic, but we actively work on an episodic concept.

IGN: There has been a lot of speculation since E3 that Heavy Rain will go "PS3 only" because of where it was showed. Any truth to that or can we expect to see it on multiple systems?

Fondaumière: We hear and read a lot of things lately on Heavy Rain. All I can say is: not everything is true and nothing is written in stone as we speak. For now, Quantic Dream is working on the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 and PC platforms.

IGN: Is Heavy Rain the team's main focus right now? Omikron KARMA has already been announced for next-gen consoles as well -- are those still coming and they're just farther out?

Fondaumière: We are 100% focused on Heavy Rain right now which will be our first project on next-generation systems. We have, however, a number of other exciting projects for the future that are at concept stage and that we hope to be developing throughout the cycle.

IGN: Do you have a publishing deal in the works or are you searching for one?

Fondaumière: We are finalizing discussions with a number of publishers right now. There will be also other exiting news concerning the project. We expect to make official announcements in the coming weeks now.

IGN: Realistically, when can we expect the game to come out?

Fondaumière: Heavy Rain will be released in Fall 2008.

IGN: Any last comments for IGN readers before we go?

Cage: I would like to thank all the gamers who are passionate about what we are doing and who are following Quantic Dream since Omikron: The Nomad Soul. This support helped us a lot in the past years to overcome the "usual" skepticism that surrounds developers who try to do things differently and who create innovative concepts in our industry.

To be honest this game looks ACE and I cant wait to see how it plays, (i nkow its just a tech demo) but im sure the game will be strange and great at the same time.

LINK

 

[KENJIusa]

Wonderful info Sprite!👍

FFXIII Interview: Nomura, Kitase, Hashimoto and Toriyama
Compilation of games puts new spin on FF series.
by Luke Smith, 06/07/2006

In the upcoming July 2006 issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly, Executive Editor Shane Bettenhausen sits down with Shinji Hashimoto, Yoshinori Kitase and Tetsuya Nomura to talk about Square Enix's extraordinarily ambitious Final Fantasy XIII project. While the complete interview doesn't appear in the pages of EGM -- it appears here, below.

EGM: Could you tell us a little about the history of the Fabula Nova Crystallis project?
Shinji Hashimoto: Right when we were about to finish Final Fantasy X-2 and Kingdom Hearts, the Fantasy XII project was already well underway, so we began to think about the next Final Fantasy project. We had learned many lessons from the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII project, and we really wanted to build upon this idea...this was the genesis of the Fabula Nova Crystalis concept.

Yoshinori Kitase: Initially, we were thinking about making FFXIII on PS2 and FFVersusXIII on a next-gen platform. But we altered that plan and decided to make both titles on PlayStation 3. For the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII, the binding concept was the original game, FFVII. Everything had to relate back to that. Fabula Nova Crystallis is slightly different because there is no central title upon which everything is based, but there is a central theme: the tale of new crystals. This mythology is an element that exists in all facets of the project. Now we have FFXIII, Versus XIII, and Agito XIII ... there may be other projects further down the line. The common element will be the tale of the new mythology. This binding element is simply a source of inspiration, it's more about freedom, and we want the directors to be freely inspired by the mythology and make the games the way they choose.

EGM: Will we see narrative crossover between the games?
Tetsuya Nomura: Even though there is a common source of inspiration, each world is completely separate and different, which means that the characters within each world won't meet each other. There might be a possibility in the future to have them meet, but we're not sure about that yet. And even though these games are all part of the FNC project, that doesn't mean that you'll have to play all the games in order to understand each game's secrets.
YK: The characters in each game have their own distinct lives, but FFXIII has a clear ending. There is this binding mythology that links the games together.

EGM: The setting seems even more futuristic than we've seen in FFVII or FFVIII ... are you worried about taking the game too far into sci-fi territory?
YK: Combining magical elements and high technology felt rather unique to us. Speaking of FFXIII, the baseline is the story of the crystals, and in the world of FF, crystals play a large role in the creation of the world. When you add high tech elements to this, it's very challenging to make it all work together, but also really exciting.

EGM: What can you tell us about the heroine of FFXIII?
Motomu Toriyama: We can't tell you all the details, unfortunately. Looking at the history of the FF series, there were already female main characters, like in FFVI, FFX, and FFX-2. This time, one of the characteristics of this heroine is that she's not that feminine. I tried to make her someone very strong, independent. When I asked Mr. Nomura to design this character, I requested someone like a female version of Cloud from FFVII.

EGM: Can you give us any info about FFXIII's battle system?
YK: At first sight, it might seem like an action game, but FFXIII inherits the long tradition of the numbered FF games, which is the active-time battle command system. We are trying to use a similar system to what you've seen, but the major difference is that the battle will be speeded up considerably. In the past, you had to wait to input commands, but our goal here is to reduce that waiting time as much as possible, so that the battles are greatly speeded up.

EGM: While 13 seems like an evolution, Versus seems like a radical reworking ... how far will you take it?
TN: FFXIII will continue the underlying traditions of the Final Fantasy series, but Versus XIII will go far beyond the traditions. I'm relieved that FFXIII will honor those traditions, so that I can feel free to experiment with everything that I want. Versus XIII isn't a simple combination of Advent Children and KH2, though. The game parts of Versus XIII will be created by the KH2 team, and I'm much more interested in what type of a game will my team create on the base ground of FF. It's not really about trying to create some kind of evolution of the KH battle system, but rather trying to create something new and different. As long as the team remains the same, there will be several different elements that will be reflected in the battle system: Traditional FF elements, and totally new ideas inspired by other games, and all the game ideas coming from the knowledge of my team.

EGM: Is the main character of Versus XIII a hero or a villain?
TN: At the beginning of the trailer, there is a quote from Shakespeare about good and evil, about how there is no absolute good or evil. This matches quite well with the concept of FFV13, and that aspect of the game is reflected in the main character ... a real ambivalence towards good and evil.

EGM: Do your actions determine if your character is good or evil?
TN: That's an interesting idea, [laughs]

EGM: Will the FFXIII PS3 games use the PS3's motion-sensing controller functionality?
TN: Yeah, we already have some ideas about how to use it.
http://1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3151333

 

[slackbladder]

To be honest this game looks ACE and I cant wait to see how it plays, (i nkow its just a tech demo) but im sure the game will be strange and great at the same time.

LINK

Yeah I've seen the demo (downloaded from gametrailers.com - about 115MB's) and though it does'nt give much a way it was rather striking.
I quite like how the game sounds (what little there's been divulged anyway). I dimly remember Omikron (mainly for David Bowies role in the game) but I never played it (was it on the Dreamcast?). I hope it brings different things to console games.

 

[Sprite]

Yeah I've seen the demo (downloaded from gametrailers.com - about 115MB's) and though it does'nt give much a way it was rather striking.
I quite like how the game sounds (what little there's been divulged anyway). I dimly remember Omikron (mainly for David Bowies role in the game) but I never played it (was it on the Dreamcast?). I hope it brings different things to console games.

It was a PC game if my memory serves well, but yeh David Bowie in a game its got ot be worth playing at least once, I remeber watching the trailer for it on BITs or Cybernet one time, looked very weird, but it didnt get rave reviews, and back then (Im sad to say) I was a trend follower with all my class mates, and anything that didnt get a great review I dismissed and never played.

 

[Sprite]

WARNING: SONY'S PLAYSTATION 3 CONTAINS CHEMICALS KNOWN TO THE STATE OF COLORADO TO CAUSE MALAISE.

Ever since Sony announced the prices for its two PlayStation 3 SKUs, many videogame journalists and sarcastic forum posters have been bashing the company, its decision, Betamax (because that old chestnut never goes away), and the three-headed monster known as Kutaragi, Harrison, and Hirai. In fact, to read some of this BS, no one wants to buy a PlayStation 3, Sony's crazy, and in a sick and twisted switch, Microsoft's $400 Xbox 360 is now a sweet deal.

Now if you ask us, that's some funked up *expletive deleted*, but we also know that sitting on our collective asses viewing forums has the tendency to make us a bit jaded, so we got off our cushy rumps and hit the streets, visiting San Francisco, various places in New Jersey, and...Colorado...to see if consumers are willing to plunk down the six Benjamins for the right to lug home Sony's George Forman grill, and the results didn't really surprise us, save for the folks in Colorado, who have apparently seceded from the rest of the world.


By and large, most of the people we spoke to in New Jersey and California are ready to walk home with a PlayStation 3 no matter the cost. As one store owner put it, "People that I've spoke to don't care how much it is. Instead, they're more concerned that it won't be available. They think it'll be as difficult to find as the 360 was last fall."

Matt from Garwood, NJ shared this person's opinion. "It's a bit expensive, but if that's the price that I've got to pay, then I'm willing to pay it, especially if it means that I'm getting a Blu-ray player."

Blu-ray was actually one of the system's biggest selling points, though shoppers are also intrigued by backwards compatibility, HDMI, and the wireless controller. In fact, of the 100 people that we spoke to in San Francisco and various points around New Jersey, 88% are willing to spend the money simply because of the technology and the fact that it's a PlayStation, so we're not going to be surprised when we see people camping out in front of Best Buys, Targets, and Walmarts, that is, except in Colorado. For whatever reason, the majority of the people that we interviewed in Colorado want nothing to do with the PlayStation 3. Just take a look at these quotes:

"The buzz in our store right now for PS3 is very minimal. We have a couple of our hardcore customers coming in here and asking about it, but otherwise it seems to be all about the Xbox 360 system. In fact, we've sold quite a bit since Sony's PS3 announcement."

"I've got no interest in carrying the PS3 at all right now. They want $500-$600 for a system that doesn't even have a good controller? Stupid. I'd sell 'em used but that's really about it."

"I've seen maybe a few people talking about pre-ordering a PS3 and I know a couple of the store employees are going to plunk down some money on one, but it seems, lately, we've got more people asking about the Wii.

"There is some hype for the PS3, but that's mostly on the games like Heavenly Sword and Warhawk. When it comes to the actual hardware, people are giving it a passive 'eh' kind of remark."

"With a price like $600, people might just come back to the arcade for affordable gaming. Well, either that or get a PS2."

"They're out of their ****ing heads. The last time I saw a console that high in price, it was the 3DO. And that went over real well, didn't it?"

"I really haven't heard that much about it. And I know the people who come in and buy games don't really talk about it that much. It's just 360 here, 360 there."


"The outlook here is, the system will do well in terms of a game machine, but in terms of being a next-generation tour-de-force, a lot of people are giving it a shrug. The price is just too high. The only justification it has is in terms of games like Heavenly Sword and Assassin's Creed. It'll do good enough, I guess, but not as good as Sony hopes."

"Let me put it this way. If I tell my kid I'm going to buy them a PS3 for Christmas, they're going to turn right around and say, 'No, I want a Wii instead.' And you know, my wallet will thank them for that."

Quite harsh, but keep in mind that we didn't have the time to interview the entire state of Colorado, and we're also wary of our correspondent, who "conveniently" met and talked to a whole bunch of people who appear very anti Sony and form bizarre sentences. Besides, we're willing to bet that somewhere (out there), beneath the pale moon light, rests a little boy or girl that will one day walk into a game shop in Colorado, grab the clerk's attention, point at a PS3, and then get their parents to pay for it.

Actually, we'd like to end with this loving quote from Greg in Garwood, New Jersey:

"It's just the hardcore people that have a problem with it. Core gamers are little *expletive deleted*. They complain about everything because they're used to a certain standard of living, and whenever anyone dares to change it they complain. You don't see people stressing out about the prices of new cars, computers, or appliances nearly as much. The cost of living is going up. If you don't want a PS3, then don't buy one."

Now thats one funny article, anyone for Colorado like to comment presonally I think that the PS3 will sell out no matter what the cost.

 

[Dave A]

Agreed, there will be more potential buyers than stock when it first goes on sale.

 

[Omnis]

That's such xbox propaganda. Here's why store owners say nobody's talking about ps3 compared to 360: One is on their shelf, the other is not.

When was the last time your local store clerk joined in your brilliant in-store discussions of anticipation and technology?

 

[DuckRacer]

Question... would I be able to run all the games at 60fps in 720p, and would I be able to play Blu-ray movies in 1080i or 720p, through component cables?

 

[Jedi2016]

Question... would I be able to run all the games at 60fps in 720p, and would I be able to play Blu-ray movies in 1080i or 720p, through component cables?

To answer your first question, it depends on how the game is made. For example, most PS2 games run at 30fps, you can't make them run at 60fps no matter how hard you try. If the game is programmed at 60fps, then yes, you can play it at 60fps. As for 720p, that's also up to the developers. However, most games will probably be native 720p. Most games should be exportable at 720p regardless of the native resolution.

For your second question, the answer is a simple "yes".

 

[tha_con]

Component cables (the newest generation, as of the last 3 months) are all capable of 1080p resolutions. It is simply a matter of if you're TV can recieve that input.

 

[KENJIusa]

that's cool, but most TVs that capable of recieving 1080p are more likely to have HDMI and DVI inputs, so ypbpr is only the third choice IMO.

 

[tha_con]

that's cool, but most TVs that capable of recieving 1080p are more likely to have HDMI and DVI inputs, so ypbpr is only the third choice IMO.

$499 PS3 - No HDMI = Component Cables for 1080p.

 

[DuckRacer]

$499 PS3 - No HDMI = Component Cables for 1080p.

...Really?

Screw the $600 PS3, the "tard" pack will work. 👍

 

[KENJIusa]

$499 PS3 - No HDMI = Component Cables for 1080p.

I thought we were talking about the TV, totally forgot this is the new ps3 thread , I think I am getting the 600 pack since my TV has a DVI input with HDCP so I can use a HDMI to DVI adapter to watch bluray movies without worrying about those High def contents protection things

 

[tha_con]

I thought we were talking about the TV, totally forgot this is the new ps3 thread , I think I am getting the 600 pack since my TV has a DVI input with HDCP so I can use a HDMI to DVI adapter to watch bluray movies without worrying about those High def contents protection things

HDCP will be in effect from the launch of blu-ray, however, ICT (Image Constraint Token) will not be put in place until 2010, if at all. Without ICT in place, there will be no worry for users using any input methods (be it Component, HDMI, or DVI).

The only reason I can see for anyone to get the $599 PS3 is if they opt to have the memory card slots and Wi-Fi. I want both, so I will get that model.

 

[Solid Lifters]

$499 PS3 - No HDMI = Component Cables for 1080p.

No, the lower level PS3 wont do 1080p at all. The Blu-ray driver will not output analog 1080p. Only digital 1080p, but the low level PS3 wont have a digital output connections. Component is analog, so no 1080p.

Now, if Sony change the driver to output 1080p in both digital and analog, then no problem.

However, you'll need a Y Pb Pr (the other is Y Cb Cr) component connection and a HDTV set rated for 1080p to display the analog 1080p signal.

 

[tha_con]

No, the lower level PS3 wont do 1080p at all. The Blu-ray driver will not output analog 1080p. Only digital 1080p, but the low level PS3 wont have a digital output connections. Component is analog, so no 1080p.

Now, if Sony change the driver to output 1080p in both digital and analog, then no problem.

However, you'll need a Y Pb Pr (the other is Y Cb Cr) component connection and a HDTV set rated for 1080p to display the analog 1080p signal.

No one listen to this jiberish, I can prove it wrong 100 times over. WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.


oh....


and you're wrong.

 

[Sprite]

The PS3 40gb Can Do 1080p but its through the Component video out, but it all depends on the Piracy encoding of the BD disks you use, if they have HDCP It cant Do 1080p (so Ive heard), if you get the low end version you need to use Component video out.

And as for making your games run better, you simply cant, if the developer has made the game run at 60fps then yes it will run that fast but if not, sorry you aint going to make it run faster.

If you have a 1080i capable TV, running at 1080i can sometimes be worse than running 720p, so I would suggest trying both as you may have a better picture via 720p.

 

[tha_con]

The PS3 40gb Can Do 1080p but its through the Component video out, but it all depends on the Piracy encoding of the BD disks you use, if they have HDCP It cant Do 1080p (so Ive heard), if you get the low end version you need to use Component video out.

And as for making your games run better, you simply cant, if the developer has made the game run at 60fps then yes it will run that fast but if not, sorry you aint going to make it run faster.

If you have a 1080i capable TV, running at 1080i can sometimes be worse than running 720p, so I would suggest trying both as you may have a better picture via 720p.

lol, it's a 20GB PS3, not 40.

Also, it's not HDCP, it's ICT.

HDCP has a feature that is optional called ICT, which is what will "downgrade" the quality of your video, however will not be adopted by any Movie Studio, if any, until 2010, and even then most movie studios are hesitant to even use them at all (Sony, Disney, and Time Warner).

So, if you "believe" otherwise, you're simply uninformed.

 

[Sprite]

Yeh Sorry everyone, I skrewed the pooch with that peice of miss information thanks con for clearing it up. The Component video out-put for the 20gb PS3 is still 1080p, and totally forget what I said about HDCP, as tha_con said its being scrapped, for the fear of a consumer backlash.

While the high end version of Sony's PlayStation 3 will indeed have a HDMI port, the low-end 20GB version (which has not yet been confirmed for launch in the UK) does not; and Microsoft's external HD-DVD player for the Xbox 360 has no HDMI port. Even if Microsoft launches a HDMI cable for the Xbox 360, there's been some speculation that the console would not be able to implement HDCP on this cable.

What this would mean, if the ICT was imposed, is that neither console would be able to output Blu-Ray or HD-DVD content at higher than 480p (540p in North America), thus effectively negating much of the advantage of the next-gen DVD formats. Games would still be able to run at up to 1080i resolution on either system.

Back on topic:-

Being the invention patent hound that he is, Barry Fox, of New Scientist reports that Sony could be behind a revolutionary idea that could possibly change the way we all play games.

The US Patent application 20060099808 describes this as an:

"electrorheological fluid device and an electronic apparatus, which realize satisfactorily changeable hardness or tension in a portion of the device or apparatus which a human body touches, enabling application to a product that needs to have portability."

This application could be used with remote controls, glasses, cell phones, PCs, PDAs, and interesting enough, videogame consoles.

"The electrorheological fluid device can be applied to, for example, part of a controller of a home-use game machine as another example of the electronic apparatus of the present invention. A user touches a control section of the controller by fingers, and the feeling of touch is controlled by the electrorheological fluid device. For example, if a game player is defeated in a fighting game, the electrorheological fluid device is controlled to become soft in order to improve the realistic sensations in the game."

Right now, Sony hasn't officialy come out to say whether or not this new technology would favor future videogame products. The idea does seem to be neat but, until then, it is just a patent and PS3Portal will give you more info on this as soon as it becomes available.

Personally I dont see this making it to PS3 unless they bring out another itteration of the DS3 mid life cycle. But this tech is seriously cool and would be quite fun to see how it would improve games.

 

[Gen.]

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=9682

Anybody had a read of this yet?

 

[slackbladder]

Hopefully the deal to have no Image Constraint Token on Blu-ray and HD-DVD will last a good 5 years as that's the average life of a console as opposed to 3 or 4 (it'll be better to never be added but I don't see the Film companies being so accommodating). That is certainly one good thing of having Blu-ray in the PS3. If Sony had chose not to have Blu-ray would we be free of ICT in next-gen movie media?

Yeah. This new patent is too soon for a PS3 controller I think. But then again.
Sony are obviously planning the PS4 (or whatever it'll be) in some form or another and it could be the idea for that controller. Or maybe a new handheld console?

 

[Solid Lifters]

No one listen to this jiberish, I can prove it wrong 100 times over. WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.


oh....


and you're wrong.

Why not stop being such a childish asshole and prove me wrong.

lol, it's a 20GB PS3, not 40.

Also, it's not HDCP, it's ICT.

HDCP has a feature that is optional called ICT, which is what will "downgrade" the quality of your video, however will not be adopted by any Movie Studio, if any, until 2010, and even then most movie studios are hesitant to even use them at all (Sony, Disney, and Time Warner).

Wrong. ICT was always a part of AACS. You wont find anything about it at their website anymore, because since this "ICT" thing went mainstream, they took all references to ICT down from their website. It's been replaced with a bunch of "COMING SOON" crap.

EDIT: Here are the specs for HDCP. See, no ICT.

http://www.digital-cp.com/home/HDCPSpecificationRev1_1.pdf

For 100% proof AACS uses ICT, click here and scroll down a bit... http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=17298

Please, people. Don't be taken in by a childish individual who has the enormous need to feel more important than others.

I know I'm not 100% correct all the time, but I know I'm correct here. Like I stated before, unless the Blu-ray driver outputs 1080p via analog, which currently it does NOT, then you wont get 1080p with the 20GB version of the PS3.

I hope, this changes. But, until I read reliable proof, I know the BD driver wont output 1080p in analog.

Why wont the BD driver output 1080p in analog? They designed it that way to prevent high quality analog versions of movies in HD which can be more easily shared on the internet, and in other ways, than digital copies.

How do I know the BD driver wont ouput 1080p in analog? I read it in an interview posted on the net about two months ago after searching out for this answer after somebody, in a thread here at GTP, stated the BD driver wont output 1080p in analog. I, for the longest time, believed it would, but I was wrong.

 

[tha_con]

Why not stop being such a childish asshole and prove me wrong.



Wrong. ICT was always a part of AACS. You wont find anything about it at their website anymore, because since this "ICT" thing went mainstream, they took all references to ICT down from their website. It's been replaced with a bunch of "COMING SOON" crap.

EDIT: Here are the specs for HDCP. See, no ICT.

http://www.digital-cp.com/home/HDCPSpecificationRev1_1.pdf

For 100% proof AACS uses ICT, click here and scroll down a bit... http://www.cdrinfo .com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=17298

Please, people. Don't be taken in by a childish individual who has the enormous need to feel more important than others.

I know I'm not 100% correct all the time, but I know I'm correct here. Like I stated before, unless the Blu-ray driver outputs 1080p via analog, which currently it does NOT, then you wont get 1080p with the 20GB version of the PS3.

I hope, this changes. But, until I read reliable proof, I know the BD driver wont output 1080p in analog.

Why wont the BD driver output 1080p in analog? They designed it that way to prevent high quality analog versions of movies in HD which can be more easily shared on the internet, and in other ways, than digital copies.

How do I know the BD driver wont ouput 1080p in analog? I read it in an interview posted on the net about two months ago after searching out for this answer after somebody, in a thread here at GTP, stated the BD driver wont output 1080p in analog. I, for the longest time, believed it would, but I was wrong.

Well, if you continue to just post random nonsense that misinforms consumers, I will continue to be "childish" and correct you

Phil Harrison Confirms both models capable of 1080p

No ICT until 2010

What is ICT?

The "driver" has absolutely nothing to do with 1080p not being output over analog signal. That is the most rediculous nonsense I have ever heard.

The disc drive will read the data, and output the data to the CPU, where it is decoded, and then sent to the RSX, and from there it is sent to the output device, be it HDMI or an Analog output. The only limiting factor would be if the output device (HDMI or Analog) is or isn't capable of 1080p, and in this case both are capable.

Since the Blu-Ray drive itself does NOT send data directly to the output device, there would be aboslutely no way for it to "downscale" via the driver that the disc drive uses.

However, with ICT, the CPU will send data to the RSX (or in a standard players case, the output device) and tell it to downgrade the resolution.

However, since NO ONE is planning on using ICT for another 4-5 years, it's not even a concern. And that is only IF they will opt to use ICT.


So, if you want me to tag your error ridden posts even more, I will, but as of now, you are giving people false information in regards to the lower end PS3, which is completely capable of 1080p in every manner.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Well, if you continue to just post random nonsense that misinforms consumers, I will continue to be "childish" and correct you

Phil Harrison Confirms both models capable of 1080p

No ICT until 2010

What is ICT?

The "driver" has absolutely nothing to do with 1080p not being output over analog signal. That is the most rediculous nonsense I have ever heard.

The disc drive will read the data, and output the data to the CPU, where it is decoded, and then sent to the RSX, and from there it is sent to the output device, be it HDMI or an Analog output. The only limiting factor would be if the output device (HDMI or Analog) is or isn't capable of 1080p, and in this case both are capable.

Since the Blu-Ray drive itself does NOT send data directly to the output device, there would be aboslutely no way for it to "downscale" via the driver that the disc drive uses.

However, with ICT, the CPU will send data to the RSX (or in a standard players case, the output device) and tell it to downgrade the resolution.

However, since NO ONE is planning on using ICT for another 4-5 years, it's not even a concern. And that is only IF they will opt to use ICT.


So, if you want me to tag your error ridden posts even more, I will, but as of now, you are giving people false information in regards to the lower end PS3, which is completely capable of 1080p in every manner.

Why, tha-con, do you have to be such an enormous asshole about these simple things? Notice, nobody else creates such problems. Oh well, I guess it makes you feel better about yourself.

ICT was not an issue, you decided it was. I know what ICT is, so why bring it up at all? I know that Japan, and most likely us, wont have an issue with ICT for quite some time. I also knew analog HD, which is component, will be shut off in 2014. Why did you feel the need to bring that up is beyond me. The PS3 will have ICT from the start, but it's up to software and media companies to use it or not.

It's nice to hear Phil Harrison say that a non-HDMI (digital) output PS3 will be 1080p compatible. Because, the Blu-ray players wont be. It looks like Sony will make an exception to the rule. Did it need to be this difficult to get that basic bit of information from you? No.

Yes, you can be a lot less of a dick-head. So, my original post stands. If you have new news about something, post it up. Playing these stupid games with you is getting really tiresome.

Oh, and yes, there are still are media companies planning on using ICT. So, you were wrong. Again. However, they will have to label on the package they are using it.

 

[Sprite]

Analog Video Connections
As of now, it should be possible to view many commercial BD movies at full resolution on televisions (or other displays) using analog composite (RF, composite, S-Video), component (YUV, YPbPr and Y,R-Y,B-Y) or computer (VGA, SVGA, XGA, SXGA, UXGA) video connections. However, some current and future movie releases may be designed to force BD playback devices to significantly downgrade image quality. Eventually, new BD equipment will be designed to make it impossible to play commercial content over their analog video connections.

To make it less attractive to use analog connections for copying, AACS incorporates an Image Constraint Token (ICT). If this feature is employed when the movie disc is mastered the ICT will instruct a BD playback device to reduce its video image quality to 960x540 (by e.g. discarding, dithering or averaging pixels, etc.) if connected through its analog outputs. But, because so many existing devices must use their analog connections, it is expected that most commercial movies will not resort to the ICT restriction. Be aware, however, that not all content publishers may decide to follow this practice. The future therefore is uncertain. At present, movies are required to disclose, either on their packages or at point of sale, if they trigger the ICT.

Part of AACS's collection of features, as well, is a Digital Only Token (DOT). To further remove the possibility of analog copying the DOT functions somewhat like the ICT but instead instructs the BD playback device to transmit through only its (HDCP protected) digital outputs. Initially, AACS license agreements prevent content publishers from utilizing the DOT but all BD playback devices must still be able to enforce the restriction in the event it is eventually permitted. At this early stage in the market, it is unclear the terms under which this might happen.

Beyond the ICT and DOT, AACS license agreements also implement "analog sunset" clauses that will eventually cripple and ultimately prevent new BD playback devices from transmitting commercial BD movies over their analog connections.

Who ever is correct, It looks like all this ICT buisness is going to be delayed for quite some time, so if you buy a 20gb PS3 you will be able to enjoy movies at full resolution, but as solid said always read the lable as some companies may use ITC, which in that case you will only be able to watch the movie at 480i-UK 576i-US. BTW all my confusuion started when that con mentioned ICT, I always regarded it as part of AACS not HDCP thats why I was confused, but meh who gives a monkeys .

Sony Computer Entertainment president Ken Kutaragi has stated that while the company expects to earn healthy revenues from the sale of downloadable content for the PS3, there will be no charge for basic online services.

In an interview with Japanese site PC Impress Watch, Kutaragi said: "You can't charge money for network matching and other basic services. These things are just taken for granted on the PC."

"On the PS3, basic services will be taken for granted while content will be the bread and butter of our business."

Kutaragi went on to reaffirm Sony's commitment to promoting the PS3's online capabilities, stating: "We really wanted to do this with the PS2. But now Apple has realised a successful e-distribution program, it's about time we made our move, too."

He also hinted that the console's online features could allow multiple Cell processors to work together: "Users will be able to connect to Polyphony Digital's server. So I want it to be a Cell server, with the number of Cells at a thousand to several thousand. This would allow us to maintain an entire cyberworld, as long as our power supply holds up."

According to Kutaragi, the PS3 will make use of network services "from launch day", and consumers will embrace the idea of digitally delivered content within one to two years. Eventually optical drives will be obsolete, he believes - as indeed might hard drives.

"I expect even the hard disk to disappear eventually," Kutaragi said.

"If you have all the data on servers, you probably no longer need disk drives... But to do this, the server is crucial. It's a difficult problem."

----

In an interview with Japanese site PC Impress Watch, Kutaragi said: "You can't charge money for network matching and other basic services. These things are just taken for granted on the PC."

----

On the PS3, basic services will be taken for granted while content will be the bread and butter of our business."

----

We really wanted to do this with the PS2. But now Apple has realised a successful e-distribution program, it's about time we made our move, too."

LINK to full article

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

PlayStation 3 May Face Downgrades – Sources.
Sony May Lower Specs of PlayStation 3

Sony Computer Entertainment Inc., the maker of PlayStation game consoles, may lower the performance of its PlayStation 3 compared to planned levels in order to ensure that the company can meet volume goals. The speed decreases may lower quality of games for the forthcoming game machines.

According to a source familiar with Sony PlayStation 3’s progress cited by Kotaku web-site, Sony may lower clock-speed of the Cell processor in the console to 2.80GHz (down from 3.50GHz expected initially) and may end-up using external 400W power supply, which is an indicator that there is not enough space inside the console for the pretty hot component. The processor clock-speed downgrade is conditioned by low-yields of the chips at higher clock-speeds.

“The current designs despite having vents all over the place apparently still can’t dissipate the heat to sufficient levels,” the anonymous source claimed.

The source, who was referred to as “Phantom Insider” indicated that there are no problems with Nvidia RSX graphics processor, it is finished and “has been finished for quite a few months now”.

Earlier it was reported that game developers used high-performance PCs to showcase what the PlayStation 3 game consoles would be able to deliver to gamers. The game developers who did not run their demos on the pre-release Sony PlayStation 3 hardware, used high-performance personal computers, such as those featuring high-speed Nvidia GeForce 7900 graphics cards in SLI mode or even ATI’s Radeon X1900 in CrossFire mode.

It is typical for game console developers to tailor specifications of their machines till nearly the actual release. However, game developers are still worried about the fact that they still do not know any actual specifications of the PlayStation 3.

Sony PlayStation 3 console is based on the Cell processor developed by IBM, Sony and Toshiba, the RSX graphics chip by Nvidia Corp. and will be equipped with Blu-ray optical disk drive. According to Merrill Lynch research company, the most expensive component of the PlayStation 3 will be its Blu-ray disk drive, which will initially cost $350. The second most expensive part of the gaming machine will be the Cell processor which will cost Sony “at least” $230 per unit to make. Nvidia’s RSX graphics processor will cost $70, while for 256MB of XDR memory as well as 256MB of GDDR3 memory Sony will have to pay $50, believes Merrily Lynch. In total, the price may reach $900 just to manufacture one PlayStation 3 console. The PS3 game consoles will cost $499 or $599 depending on the system configuration.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20060612160823.html

 

[LaBounti]

Yee..ah. I like rumors . It was going to be 3.2GHZ from the get go, not 3.5 or 2.8. the frist chips were 2.4ghz and it wont need a 400w powersupply, theres more crap n my pc, 2 DVD drives, 3.0ghz cpu, 500mhz gpu, 2 120GB HDD's, TV tuner, a 56k modem, 1.5 GB's of ram all running off a 300w supply with no problems or heat issues.

I dont beleive any of that garbage. Most ps3 alpha kits were not 7900 sli pc's, the 7900 recently came out. games have been in development before the the 7800GTX512 even came out so why would they need to run off pc's?. I'd like to see one game that was not running off of a ps3 dev kit.

why even post this mess? Sony may not do anything dont belevie everything you read unless its on the front page of IGN or Gamespot or any major publication with legit sources,

 

[Sprite]

Yee..ah. I like rumors . It was going to be 3.2GHZ from the get go, not 3.5 or 2.8. the frist chips were 2.4ghz and it wont need a 400w powersupply, theres more crap n my pc, 2 DVD drives, 3.0ghz cpu, 500mhz gpu, 2 120GB HDD's, TV tuner, a 56k modem, 1.5 GB's of ram all running off a 300w supply with no problems or heat issues.

I dont beleive any of that garbage. Most ps3 alpha kits were not 7900 sli pc's, the 7900 recently came out. games have been in development before the the 7800GTX512 even came out so why would they need to run off pc's?. I'd like to see one game that was not running off of a ps3 dev kit.

why even post this mess? Sony may not do anything dont belevie everything you read unless its on the front page of IGN or Gamespot or any major publication with legit sources,

exactly, this is just fanboy propaganda, always air on the side of coution when reading stuff on the net.

this is the site that actually claimed that developers were using

Nvidia GeForce 7900 graphics cards in SLI mode or even ATI’s Radeon X1900 in CrossFire mode

at E3 to play the game demos for PS3 on, they are just telling lies. Plus they also quote the Merrill Lynch reports, that we all know and love