PURE | GT4 Cup: Season 3 | Season End

[LongbowX]

good call... type-o

and not embarrassing... we didn't get under it.

Ahh. I did think "they picked up two seconds while I was away..." *panics* "I can't believe I missed that!"

It is definitely possible to beat whatever I've turned so far. I'm not that good, haha. I'm looking forward to seeing the development through the week.

 

[Green]

Think I was using the wrong track running low 1'37 now track doesn't even look that much different must have forgot tire wear or something .

 

[CSLACR]

...I'm pretty sure it was a 1:35.2. Embarrassingly.

The decreasing radius corners hurt the understeer-out attitude of the 'Vette. And as mentioned, the way the power limiter is used, the torque is weird: as I can't spin the tires or kick the back out at will to help the exit. But I do like how it handles overall, and it's even on its tires. Pretty heavy user of them though, I can see people struggling to halfway mark.

I fixed the push coming out of corners in the Vette by putting the shocks to 8/4 4/8.
Depending on the track, etx, maybe 8/5 5/8. 7/4 4/7, play around with settings like those until you find a spot you like. (where it matches the mid corner balance, and your car handles the same entering, mid corner, and exiting.)

That's what I would do anyway.

 

[LongbowX]

My setting is something like that actually. I noted you had done that for the Z earlier. I wouldn't have done that kind of tune otherwise. It still pushes a bit, but I'm reasonably happy with it. It's loose-but-not-too-loose on entry, controllable....pretty much how I like it, stable mid corner with just a hint of understeer off. But depending on the entry I can control it to some degree. Thank you for your advice though, I appreciate it very much. ^^

 

[CSLACR]

My setting is something like that actually. I noted you had done that for the Z earlier. I wouldn't have done that kind of tune otherwise. It still pushes a bit, but I'm reasonably happy with it. It's loose-but-not-too-loose on entry, controllable....pretty much how I like it, stable mid corner with just a hint of understeer off. But depending on the entry I can control it to some degree. Thank you for your advice though, I appreciate it very much. ^^

If it still pushes on exit, and is a little loose on entry, go a little further, if you're running 7/4 4/7, try 7/3 3/7 or 8/4 4/8.

Now, it catches my attention you like the looseness on entry, and want to keep that. You also say it's solid mid corner.
Changing the shocks as above will take away some of the looseness you enjoy entering, and will also take away the push on exit you don't.

So what I think, reading this, is you want to adjust the mid-corner/overall balance of the car a bit more, to make it looser. You can use ride height, spring rate, or rear toe for this, they all pretty much work the same. I use a small amount of all of them, rather than using a large amount of just one.
These are where you find minimal gains, but a clear difference in handling.
Ride height 1-2mm
Spring rate 0.5-1.0
Toe 0.02-0.04

So first set the shocks where it's not loose or pushing at all on entry, and the same for exits. Then make small adjustments for the mid corner balance to bring it where you like it.

Once you get the hang of it, you won't like racing stock or not-tuned cars nearly as much though.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Once you get the hang of it, you won't like racing stock or not-tuned cars nearly as much though.

I ran some shuffle races last night, only to get reacquainted with the lovely stock suspension of certain cars. They were undrivable until the tires warmed up. 👎

I always end up with understeer on entry, which I'm getting a little better in fixing but it's always there. Fighting that big time in Bronzestone's first corner.

 

[CSLACR]

I ran some shuffle races last night, only to get reacquainted with the lovely stock suspension of certain cars. They were undrivable until the tires warmed up. 👎

I always end up with understeer on entry, which I'm getting a little better in fixing but it's always there. Fighting that big time in Bronzestone's first corner.

What are your shock, BB, and lsd settings?

Another thing is, especially online, different corners will always cause under or over-steer. It really sucks and gets quite annoying, many times setting the car up right involves a compromise of pushing in some corners and pulling in others.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

What are your shock, BB, and lsd settings?

Another thing is, especially online, different corners will always cause under or over-steer. It really sucks and gets quite annoying, many times setting the car up right involves a compromise of pushing in some corners and pulling in others.

RH: 5/0
SR: 9.0/7.5
D(E): 5/6
D(C): 6/5
ARB: 2/2
Camber: 1.6/1.0
Toe: 0.00/-0.10

LSD: 10/30/15
BB: 5/7

Haven't done any testing since Saturday.

 

[LongbowX]

If it still pushes on exit, and is a little loose on entry, go a little further, if you're running 7/4 4/7, try 7/3 3/7 or 8/4 4/8.

Now, it catches my attention you like the looseness on entry, and want to keep that. You also say it's solid mid corner.
Changing the shocks as above will take away some of the looseness you enjoy entering, and will also take away the push on exit you don't.

So what I think, reading this, is you want to adjust the mid-corner/overall balance of the car a bit more, to make it looser. You can use ride height, spring rate, or rear toe for this, they all pretty much work the same. I use a small amount of all of them, rather than using a large amount of just one.
These are where you find minimal gains, but a clear difference in handling.
Ride height 1-2mm
Spring rate 0.5-1.0
Toe 0.02-0.04

So first set the shocks where it's not loose or pushing at all on entry, and the same for exits. Then make small adjustments for the mid corner balance to bring it where you like it.

Once you get the hang of it, you won't like racing stock or not-tuned cars nearly as much though.

I've tried all of the different settings, to the extreme and back again. I've certainly tuned cars before this competition and always felt I could tease comfort out of car most of the time... In this case, I had actually done most of what you've suggested beforehand, though my toe and camber are probably a bit extreme at the moment, it does include all the different aspects you mentioned. I could tune it even more, but...I'm beginning to think a little understeer is not so bad. It's stability. The loose entry can be maintained mid corner if I desire and then it transfers to a normal exit if I do it well enough. (It also gets looser as the tires wear off) I will likely create an alternate tune, attempting to retune it to do as you say.

I like driving all kinds, so this will be just another kind, pretty much. I'm not going to be driving these (or similar) cars all the time, in fact...it's a rather small minority.

I thank you sincerely for your time and help, Sir.

I ran some shuffle races last night, only to get reacquainted with the lovely stock suspension of certain cars. They were undrivable until the tires warmed up. 👎

I actually do shuffle/stock car races all the time. They're sort of my specialty, if I have one. It's a challenge to get them to work, and I like that.

 

[Adam41]

1'35.3 in the BMW 1'35.5 in the Evora; Longbow was doing 1:35.2 in the Vette.
Odd really considering how fast and straight the track is; the only real place I was getting cut up by the vette was climbing the hill (+0.5 in the bmw +0.7 evora) and the front straight (maybe +0.2 in either car since the evora can take the last turn faster)

The Maser and Z are probably going to eat the track up though.

Strange. I've found the track to favour cars like the Evora and Camaro. Which should be interesting come race day.

Got some news regarding Round 3.5 which I'll talk about on Sunday. I think you'll all like it. It's pretty cool.

Race info for Bronzestone will be up tomorrow.

 

[LongbowX]

It seems to be more about maintaining speed, rather than simply acceleration. It does have lots of sweeping corners. It should indeed be interesting.

I did calculations for the race length before, and it's a real doozy with the tire wear. ^^;

Look forward to the news too, of course. Surprises are always nice!

 

[Adam41]

Check this out (if you have a GPT tag): https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=245725

 

[The Reality]

I'm really hoping round 3.5 isn't a custom track! Oh and I'm miles off pace ATM, but will try again tonight.

 

[Dr_Watson]

Check this out (if you have a GPT tag): https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=245725

That looks familiar...

 

[Paginas1]

looks great, would love to do it but don't have gtp tag and can't be arsed making one lol

 

[CSLACR]

RH: 5/0
SR: 9.0/7.5
D(E): 5/6
D(C): 6/5
ARB: 2/2
Camber: 1.6/1.0
Toe: 0.00/-0.10

LSD: 10/30/15
BB: 5/7

Haven't done any testing since Saturday.

It should be over-steering into corners, I really don't know why you're not getting over-steer.
You can drop the decel down to 5 (what I always run), but for the Vette you're already using shocks for some over-steer into corners, and the BB is also rear biased.

Late braker by chance?

 

[Müle]

Maybe it is something with his wheel? Doesn't matter what series, he's always complaining of constant understeer. It's weird.

 

[CSLACR]

Maybe it is something with his wheel? Doesn't matter what series, he's always complaining of constant understeer. It's weird.

That is true, but the most common cause of under-steer, or particularly excessive under-steer, is speed.
I can't think of any way a wheel could malfunction that would change the handling behavior of a car in a video game.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

It should be over-steering into corners, I really don't know why you're not getting over-steer.
You can drop the decel down to 5 (what I always run), but for the Vette you're already using shocks for some over-steer into corners, and the BB is also rear biased.

Late braker by chance?

Actually, early braker.

It almost feels like there's a delay in steering response. I'm not sure if it's something I'm doing wrong, or something's wrong internally.

I did find out that reducing the ride height gap while compensating with dampers seemed to help. Apparently, too high a difference causes issues with track elevation changes.

 

[CSLACR]

Actually, early braker.

It almost feels like there's a delay in steering response. I'm not sure if it's something I'm doing wrong, or something's wrong internally.

I did find out that reducing the ride height gap while compensating with dampers seemed to help. Apparently, too high a difference causes issues with track elevation changes.

Yes and no. I haven't really seen a difference between using springs, height, or toe for elevation changes, just that most tracks have some "over-steer" corners. They do usually involve elevation changes or banking, it's the over-under steer balance I was talking about.

For steering, try some - or more likely, + front toe. The Vette is one car I did really like + toe on the front for, and it's pretty rare I touch the front toe.

Transmission:
Reset to default
Set top speed to 137mph(220kmh)
3983
3075
2420
1930
1575
1320
Final gear: 2300

LSD:
7 / 11 / 5

Suspension:
35 / 25
15.8/14.8
8 / 4
4 / 8
5 / 5

2.0 / 1.0
0.00 / 0.00

Brakes:
BB: 4/4
ABS: 1

I'm wondering if your car isn't just too tight, and the lsd is keeping your outside wheel spinning easily enough you're using that to bring the car around corners on exit.
I'd guess you need more rotation, but you'll probably need to reverse the shock setup and loosen the lsd.

This tune is from the RM Z06, but from what carracer and Longbow have shared with me, I believe they take pretty similar tunes.

 

[LongbowX]

I have slightly bad news. The share-track thing did not update immediately. So those times, the 1:35s are not relevant to the new narrower track. So to those who practiced at that session...you'll want to redownload it. Honestly, my car handled perfectly on the wider track. Now, it's really quite awful. I really don't like it. Ugh.

 

[Wardez]

Yeah that's what I brought up earlier about it being a different track.

 

[LongbowX]

And you were right, and it is awfully confusing. I wish we would go back to the first version...

 

[Adam41]

Agh so it doesn't update automatically. I advise everyone, just to make sure then, to delete the current track and re-download it. Doesn't take a minute.


What times are you guys running?

 

[The Reality]

1.38.8 atm. Thanks for the tune btw mate .

 

[The Outlaw]

Is anyone who has already downloaded the Bronzestone track going to be online in the next few hours? I was hoping to DL it so I can start doing a bit of testing before it's too late

Cleared my PM box. Didn't expect so many PM's, sorry about that.


Pit Window/Pitting: So I'm going to make sure that the 40 minute race is not 1 second over 40 minutes. Rome would have probably been 33 laps including the formation lap, for example. This should help with the difference in car's tyre wear/driver's setup/driving style, which ever way you see it...

So the race was 35 laps. That would make 18 the optimum pitting in lap, seeing as there was a formation lap. Now, I can't see anyone pitting in at lap 15 or lap 22. What stumps me is that half of you are literally complaining about tyre wear, but because you lost time in the pits pitting in at the same lap as someone, you want rid of the pit window, but fail to see that pitting outside this pit window would probably destroy a good part of your race.

The problem is not the pit window, but the GT5 pits which are just... useless. What adds the problem (I think, at least, I still have to check the replay), is how much some of you are taking out of your tyres. I know TA for example, was using some pretty aggressive values in his tune. I think I'm right in saying (apologies if I'm wrong) that most of you (at least in D1) took so much out of their tyres in the first stint, that it was hard for you to pit at the half way mark (lap 18).

I know me and tony pitted on lap 16 and then 7 or 8 of you pitted the lap after and you guys were pretty close on track. Regardless, 7 or 8 people in a pit lane in GT5 isn't going to end well. You're going to lose time somewhere, you just have to deal with it the best you can. For example, using up a bit less of your tyres on the first stint and pitting in on lap 18 and 19. I know only 2 people pitted on lap 18. If you want to get rid of the pit window, then I'm fine with that, but I'll be noting down how many people will be pitting outside said window for upcoming tracks, who suddenly can cope with their tyres to be able to do so.

Hey Adam, sorry it took me so long to respond to this topic. I for one am one who would really like to see the pit window banished. Mainly because I think having a specified pit window tends to give an advantage (in choosing when to pit) to the car with the straightline advantage in a lot of cases...as they generally have an easier time staying out in front, being that it is so much easier to sail by another car on the straight (when you have a car which strong suit is on the straights, but is very similar in outright lap time) vs. having to risk diving down the inside of someone every corner to hold the position (which is often the case with my Camaro), only to easily get re-passed on the following straight.

I know my tire wear (and many others) may have suggested that pitting before the pit window would have been a disaster in the last race, but I think there are many things to consider that paint a somewhat unclear picture when it comes to determining this. I think Rome might (at least in comparison to Nurb GP/F) be one of the tracks which is hardest on the tires, with a lot of long duration, high speed corners, and a surface which seems very abrasive. Looking back, I certainly didn't get enough practice in beforehand, and believe my set-up was pretty bad for the track (way too low of ride height to deal with the curbing in a predictable fashion & too much - rear toe which was burning the rears up while in other cars draft)...so I think I've learned a good bit about this car setup wise for the future races to deal with the tire wear in a better fashion. Also, knowing that it was basically a race (at least for me) to try and get to the pits as early a possible to try and get out into clear air to gain track position, (which I've believe you've done in the past 2 races?) meant that I was probably pushing a bit too hard at times trying to get the best possible position I could before the pits opened up.

Basically, I think if we rid of the pit window, we will allow for more:

1) Strategy
2) Possibly less jammed up pits (which is a nightmare in GT5), which often can lead to disaster in these relatively short races. Especially at the front where you can potentially lose more time in the pits by a botched stop then you do in total on track mistakes in a 40 minute race
3) Minimize to a good extent the crucial advantange that the power cars often have when it comes to deciding when to stop.

With that said, I don't really see any negative in erradicatin the pit window. Of course I'd like the authenticity of having a pit window, but I don't think it's really ideal to implement such in this series, nor more importantly in this glitched ridden game

 

[Dr_Watson]

TA:: The track is shared on my account and adam's

 

[Adam41]

Hey TA. Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your feedback. 👍 Then we shall get rid of the window. At least for 1 race, and see who pits outside of the window (if there were one).

I'm in a GT4 room at the moment and as Tim said, I have it on my share.


EDIT: Just qualified: 1:35.627

times here

 

[CSLACR]

I have to work Saturday morning. Haven't worked a weekend day except 1 since I started this job, now have 2 in a row.


One thing that wasn't mentioned, faster cars may pass more easily, they also wear tires more easily as well.

 

[Dr_Watson]

I have to work Saturday morning. Haven't worked a weekend day except 1 since I started this job, now have 2 in a row.


One thing that wasn't mentioned, faster cars may pass more easily, they also wear tires more easily as well.

As someone who drove a car weak in a straight line all through JGTS I'd have to challenge that theory. To make up the time the NSX was gaining on straights I frequently found myself working the tires harder than I would have liked through the twisty bits. But then as tires wear the GTR relying on handling got exponentially worse at making up that "free time" that the NSX gets on the straights.
At Indy for the first quarter of the stint I could gain ground on Rees's NSX. 2nd quarter we were even, then the entire 2nd half of the stints I'd progressively lose more and more time.

Straight line advantage is always an advantage. Handling advantage is variable. And the only thing that's going to make one better or worse on it's tires is weight.