Quality over Quantity (GT7)

quality or quantity

  • Total voters
    299
GT2's AI might've been faster, but not smarter. You could win the GT500 championship with a well-driven GT300 car.

Pseudopod
What PD should have done, but that is probably too late now, is to gather massive amounts of statistics from all the GT6 players. They could have used that to identify which standard cars are used the least, and which are used the most. With that data, they could have axed 67% of the least used standards and upgraded the rest to premiums. Almost everybody wins!

I'm not sure how they should best determine usage, but I imagine it would be a combination of total mileage driven, money spent on upgrades/styling, and number of races won with each standard car.
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Well, it's never too late to collect statistics on GT5/6 online play (and PD's even shown examples that they do just that), but they could even pair it off with something similar to what T10 did with some FM DLC; have a community-based vote. Yeah, there will be some people that will be disappointed their personal selections didn't make the cut, but the good press from such a move would likely overshadow that, since there'd be no arguing PD listened to their community if they included cars the community specifically voted for.
 
They can still collect data, yeah, but if they had done it from the beginning of, they'd have a lot more of it, and a lot more statistics that they could use right now. If they start now and let it run for a year, then they can't really start deciding which cars to keep and which to drops until a year from now. I'm not sure how far they are in the development process, though. Working on other stuff until they have some statistics and then sort out the last few cars at the end might work too.


I guess what they could do is like take the... 800? standards we have now. Do that statistics magic wizard stuff, and be left with ~250 cars. Then they could add 15 PD-favourites out of the remaining 650 cars, and another 15 community vote cars as well.

Of course, I also think they should do some manual decisions on the 250 cars selected by statistics, in case we're once again left with a dozen almost identical skylines or civics.
 
At least with GT2 it was on PS1 that I could forgive, but bringing ancient A.I back from the grave at this point I'm up for anything Lmao!

Seriously as bad as the A.I is in GT6 it can't get worse well maybe it could, they could *GASP* drive backwards.
 
One question: When GT7 is released and a few months later, PD wants to make GT8. So, should they reuse the GT7 content in GT8? Or then should they throw away the GT7 content?
 
At first, I wanted the standards to stay in GT7, but now I think my opinion has changed. The problem with keeping the standards is that work will have to be done to get them to at least satisfactory quality on the PS4. Even if they do this, they'll still be rather embarrassing on next gen hardware without interiors. That's time that could be used in making the premium cars better instead.

It's not like we'd be massively disappointed in the standards going, right? We might lose a little sleep over it, but the series needs to change if it's to stay alive and overpower the competition. If PD ditches the standards, that's a whole lot of Japanese clones and cars that have no reason to be present in a racing game, gone. That would really do it for me, and all of us.

I get the sense that Gran Turismo has been a general advertisement platform for manufacturers, rather than passionate selection of relevant cars. Some of the standard cars in the game have no reason whatsoever to be in GT... or exist at all as a matter of fact.

What if I told you that despite no standards, GT7 has a far larger selection of cars than any other next gen game? (i.e Forza 5, Project cars, etc) What if all of them were delicious premiums? 600? 800 perhaps? It's all possible and the standards would have no part in it.

Despite everything, I sense that Kaz still wants standards to stay. I think it's time that we told him otherwise. If he wants to deliver what the fans want, he'll go with the quality option.

I keep wanting Gran Turismo 7 to be a good game, but the more I think about standards, my vision fades completely. Subtract the standards and prioritize the premiums, and we have a major competitor.

GT prides itself in having over 1200 cars. The pride factor shatters when 800 of them are simply not adequate.
 
oli440
At first, I wanted the standards to stay in GT7, but now I think my opinion has changed. The problem with keeping the standards is that work will have to be done to get them to at least satisfactory quality on the PS4. Even if they do this, they'll still be rather embarrassing on next gen hardware without interiors. That's time that could be used in making the premium cars better instead.

It's not like we'd be massively disappointed in the standards going, right? We might lose a little sleep over it, but the series needs to change if it's to stay alive and overpower the competition. If PD ditches the standards, that's a whole lot of Japanese clones and cars that have no reason to be present in a racing game, gone. That would really do it for me, and all of us.

I get the sense that Gran Turismo has been a general advertisement platform for manufacturers, rather than passionate selection of relevant cars. Some of the standard cars in the game have no reason whatsoever to be in GT... or exist at all as a matter of fact.

What if I told you that despite no standards, GT7 has a far larger selection of cars than any other next gen game? (i.e Forza 5, Project cars, etc) What if all of them were delicious premiums? 600? 800 perhaps? It's all possible and the standards would have no part in it.

Despite everything, I sense that Kaz still wants standards to stay. I think it's time that we told him otherwise. If he wants to deliver what the fans want, he'll go with the quality option.

I keep wanting Gran Turismo 7 to be a good game, but the more I think about standards, my vision fades completely. Subtract the standards and prioritize the premiums, and we have a major competitor.

GT prides itself in having over 1200 cars. The pride factor shatters when 800 of them are simply not adequate.
Click to expand...
I doubt that Japanese clones have to be removed. I think that these clones should be on the trims of a car.

For example: 3000 GT is on Dealership. Then you will have a few option trims: GTO, Twin Turbo SR...

I don't want the Standard cars to be thrown away because the majority of people may be sad...
 
Harsk100
I doubt that Japanese clones have to be removed. I think that these clones should be on the trims of a car.

For example: 3000 GT is on Dealership. Then you will have a few option trims: GTO, Twin Turbo SR...

I don't want the Standard cars to be thrown away because the majority of people may be sad...
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Trims would be cool, but I don't want PD to count a car twice because it has a slightly different name, or has a slightly changed polygon.
 
Some of the standards do deserve to be converted to premiums. They're countless number of race cars and rally cars. Those are the ones that should be saved.

Let's say GT7 has 700 cars.

The 450 could be the premiums from GT6.
150 could be new editions. 100 could be the select few standards converted to premiums.
 
oli440
Trims would be cool, but I don't want PD to count a car twice because it has a slightly different name, or has a slightly changed polygon.
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That's exactly I was talking about! Instead of count a car twice, they should put these Limited Editions and a duplicate in a Option Trim in a one Miata for example. And therefore, these duplicates should count as a trims and replaced by new cars...
 
oli440
At first, I wanted the standards to stay in GT7, but now I think my opinion has changed. The problem with keeping the standards is that work will have to be done to get them to at least satisfactory quality on the PS4. Even if they do this, they'll still be rather embarrassing on next gen hardware without interiors. That's time that could be used in making the premium cars better instead.

It's not like we'd be massively disappointed in the standards going, right? We might lose a little sleep over it, but the series needs to change if it's to stay alive and overpower the competition. If PD ditches the standards, that's a whole lot of Japanese clones and cars that have no reason to be present in a racing game, gone. That would really do it for me, and all of us.

I get the sense that Gran Turismo has been a general advertisement platform for manufacturers, rather than passionate selection of relevant cars. Some of the standard cars in the game have no reason whatsoever to be in GT... or exist at all as a matter of fact.

What if I told you that despite no standards, GT7 has a far larger selection of cars than any other next gen game? (i.e Forza 5, Project cars, etc) What if all of them were delicious premiums? 600? 800 perhaps? It's all possible and the standards would have no part in it.

Despite everything, I sense that Kaz still wants standards to stay. I think it's time that we told him otherwise. If he wants to deliver what the fans want, he'll go with the quality option.

I keep wanting Gran Turismo 7 to be a good game, but the more I think about standards, my vision fades completely. Subtract the standards and prioritize the premiums, and we have a major competitor.

GT prides itself in having over 1200 cars. The pride factor shatters when 800 of them are simply not adequate.
Click to expand...


For the past 5 pages this is exactly what we've all been trying to say.

People will get mad let them, but just like we've mentioned we lost cars between Gran Turismo 2 to Gran Turismo 3.

I've told this a thousand times once the newer racing games hit, and GT brings it's *** on from the rear those standards are going to be god awful on a serious note. It's going to be so bad that I do predict anyone that's in favor of standards staying will actually be on the other side once GT7 or GT6 Remastered happens.

Plus I also agree there are certain cars I don't give a crap seeing again Cadillac Cien is one that comes to mind, and I'm certain there are others too.
 
buickgnx88
But from gt2 to gt3 they lost a lot of cars. Don't you think people may have been upset then as well?
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15 million people were so outraged they went out and bought GT3 just to express their anger. A massive car count is necessary in a substandard game to make up for the shortcomings of the gameplay. In a well thought out game, something immmersive with endless replayability at a high level, a hundred well chosen cars is more than enough, 400 is nirvana.
 
Johnnypenso
15 million people were so outraged they went out and bought GT3 just to express their anger. A massive car count is necessary in a substandard game to make up for the shortcomings of the gameplay. In a well thought out game, something immmersive with endless replayability at a high level, a hundred well chosen cars is more than enough, 400 is nirvana.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. However, I will say that it is a balancing act to get a proper list that the most amount of people will appreciate, hence why a larger list may be chosen. I honestly think 800 max would be the optimal amount for me.
 
As long as we get a good balance of cars. Certain standards should get the premium treatment., some cars that were there in GT2 should re-appear and lastly some new cars to the series should appear.

I'll agree that 700 should be the max.

Most of all, I think the vehicles should have some more identity to them. Like in GT3 the cars had some identity. Shouldn't just be like a collect a car situation.
 
buickgnx88
But from gt2 to gt3 they lost a lot of cars. Don't you think people may have been upset then as well?
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Honestly, I was genuinely bummed when I realized that many of my favourite cars weren't included in GT3. But I understod that it was a trade-off. I understod that a new generation basically meant "starting from scratch" and the fact that those PS1 car models would look absolutely ridiculous racing side by side with the new models. It was a no-brainer, really.

Besides, if I ever got the itch to drive them again, I would just simply play GT2.
 
Harsk100
Yes, the people were upset because the GT2 cars were thrown away. :(
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Well the people were also upset standards were kept in 5 & 6.:(...

...so that tells you no matter what you will not be able to please everyone. That also tells you that PD's motivation for keeping them was not to keep their fans happy (since they managed to upset so many as well). It would have to be mainly increasing the car count because the Premiums easily replace all those standards. By that I mean they cover every era, HP range, drive train, etc. They are not necessary and they do make the whole game feel cheap.
 
Fat Tyre
Well the people were also upset standards were kept in 5 & 6.:(...

...so that tells you no matter what you will not be able to please everyone. That also tells you that PD's motivation for keeping them was not to keep their fans happy (since they managed to upset so many as well). It would have to be mainly increasing the car count because the Premiums easily replace all those standards. By that I mean they cover every era, HP range, drive train, etc. They are not necessary and they do make the whole game feel cheap.
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And do you want the whole game expensive?
 
Fat Tyre
Yes I would like for GT to shine in its most absolute glory. The times I have seen only Premiums on screen it has been incredible especially with GT's beautiful natural looking lighting effects. I would also love to see consistency throughout all tracks.
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Yes, but do you think that PD shouldn't reuse content from GT6 to GT7?
 
Harsk100
Yes, but do you think that PD shouldn't reuse content from GT6 to GT7?
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I personally do not think any company should re use content just for the sake of it. If the content really adds to the whole experience then yes they should. If it is of similar quality and will not feel out of place again yes.

Now with quantity I feel there should be a balance since you can get to the point of over saturating the game. I mean mean, with GT5 and 6 there were great cars that were just buried under a sea of pointless Yaris, Miatas, GTOs, etc. and having so many cars made the game feel cluttered. I do support your idea of making those versions available as trims in a sub-menu but at the same time if feels a bit pointless having them put effort on different trims since we can upgrade and customize the mechanical aspects of any car to the point where the handling and personality of the car can be changed completely to your liking.
 
Fat Tyre
I personally do not think any company should re use content just for the sake of it. If the content really adds to the whole experience then yes they should. If it is of similar quality and will not feel out of place again yes.

Now with quantity I feel there should be a balance since you can get to the point of over saturating the game. I mean mean, with GT5 and 6 there were great cars that were just buried under a sea of pointless Yaris, Miatas, GTOs, etc. and having so many cars made the game feel cluttered. I do support your idea of making those versions available as trims in a sub-menu but at the same time if feels a bit pointless having them put effort on different trims since we can upgrade and customize the mechanical aspects of any car to the point where the handling and personality of the car can be changed completely to your liking.
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Yes, GT5 and GT6 were buried by the duplicates of following models:
S2000, GTO, Miata, Silvia, Civic, Sirion, 200SX, Skyline, MR2, Yaris and RX-7.

The Vauxhall cannot be considered as a duplicate because they don't sell the same models of Opel like the Corsa A. The Corsa A was rebaged as Vauxhall Nova. Speedster was rebaged as VX220. So, the Vauxhall must not be removed.

And I think that we should have more premium cars and less standard cars. I'm not telling PD to remove them: It's just to upgrade at least 100 standard cars to premium. For example, the people's most important standard car is the Toyota Supra.

And yes, we should have new cars replacing these duplicates metioned above. Like these cars from GT2, for example.

And we also should have an Autovista mode so we could look the interior of the cars without having to race with it.
 
Harsk100
Yes, GT5 and GT6 were buried by the duplicates of following models:
S2000, GTO, Miata, Silvia, Civic, Sirion, 200SX, Skyline, MR2, Yaris and RX-7.

The Vauxhall cannot be considered as a duplicate because they don't sell the same models of Opel like the Corsa A. The Corsa A was rebaged as Vauxhall Nova. Speedster was rebaged as VX220. So, the Vauxhall must not be removed.

And I think that we should have more premium cars and less standard cars. I'm not telling PD to remove them: It's just to upgrade at least 100 standard cars to premium. For example, the people's most important standard car is the Toyota Supra.

And yes, we should have new cars replacing these duplicates metioned above. Like these cars from GT2, for example.

And we also should have an Autovista mode so we could look the interior of the cars without having to race with it.
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Both dealerships should be kept but it is time they update the cars there. It is not like they haven't released any new cars since 2004 (???).

👍 A few months ago I bought Forza 5 and Autovista is awesome, Gran Turismo would definitely benefit from having something similar.

That is another reason why all cars should be Premium. Most cars are object of desire, they are designed to be attractive, to look imposing, etc. Even utility vehicles nowadays have nice designs (for their segment) even if not everyone shares that sentiment a lot of time and effort is put by the designers of those cars in creating those shapes and lines so there is nothing wrong about wanting to admire them in their fullest.
 
Harsk100
One question: When GT7 is released and a few months later, PD wants to make GT8. So, should they reuse the GT7 content in GT8? Or then should they throw away the GT7 content?
Click to expand...
They should reuse any content that is liked and of high enough quality.
Fat Tyre
Both dealerships should be kept but it is time they update the cars there. It is not like they haven't released any new cars since 2004 (???).
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Yeah, I don't think there is a single premium car between both the vauxhall and opel dealerships. Now I don't particularly give a damn about those cars, but it's still seriously bad that some dealerships don't have a single good looking car.
 
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Fat Tyre
Both dealerships should be kept but it is time they update the cars there. It is not like they haven't released any new cars since 2004 (???).

👍 A few months ago I bought Forza 5 and Autovista is awesome, Gran Turismo would definitely benefit from having something similar.

That is another reason why all cars should be Premium. Most cars are object of desire, they are designed to be attractive, to look imposing, etc. Even utility vehicles nowadays have nice designs (for their segment) even if not everyone shares that sentiment a lot of time and effort is put by the designers of those cars in creating those shapes and lines so there is nothing wrong about wanting to admire them in their fullest.
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And so we can put body kits, racing numbers and many things in them! Because I know that these features in GT7 will be probably only for premium cars...

These standard cars were imported from Gran Turismo 4 aka PS2. These PS2 cars have an low quality. So, one more reason to the cars to be converted to premium. I understand that it takes 6 months to model a car, but I think that they should upgrade at least 10 standard cars to premium in each update.
 
Harsk100
And so we can put body kits, racing numbers and many things in them! Because I know that these features in GT7 will be probably only for premium cars...

These standard cars were imported from Gran Turismo 4 aka PS2. These PS2 cars have an low quality. So, one more reason to the cars to be converted to premium. I understand that it takes 6 months to model a car, but I think that they should upgrade at least 10 standard cars to premium in each update.
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They had 3 years from GT5 to GT6 and only got a handful upgraded, and have released zero cars upgraded in nearly a year since. I think we can conclude that it's not simple or easy or light on the resources, otherwise they'd have done many more in the past 10 months.

It also begs the question of how many new premiums you would trade off to get these upgraded standards because that is the choice you are making. Modelers that could be working on new premiums, cars new to the series or old favourite standards, would work on putting a new coat of paint on the 10 year old cars instead. What's the tradeoff? 10/1? 20/1? 40/1?
 
Hopefully that dent in the hood of the 97 supra gets fixed for gt7.
 
Zuku
At least with GT2 it was on PS1 that I could forgive, but bringing ancient A.I back from the grave at this point I'm up for anything Lmao!

Seriously as bad as the A.I is in GT6 it can't get worse well maybe it could, they could *GASP* drive backwards.
Click to expand...

As a 'love letter' to the AI's lack of intelligence, GT7 should have a coffee break challenge where you get attacked by reversing Honda Civic and Nissan Skyline clones, which endlessly respawn until you get hit by one of them, ending the challenge. To get the bronze trophy, lets say... survive at least a second. Silver, 1.1 seconds and gold? 1.2 seconds? I think that sounds reasonable ;P
 

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