Quality over Quantity (GT7)
- Thread starter Bloodmasters
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Matej
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- 2,006
- Zagreb
There was a time during which Gran Turismo could offer both quality and quantity and not just in cars.
I would say premiums are better because they fit into general high-budget reputation of the series but on the other hand, I wish some other aspects of the game would get such attention as the premiums do.
I would say premiums are better because they fit into general high-budget reputation of the series but on the other hand, I wish some other aspects of the game would get such attention as the premiums do.
glassjaw
Premium
- 1,472
- PA
- pioneerspine
- pioneerspine
Agreed, even though the level of detail in premiums never ceases to amaze me (even today), PD went overboard in future-proofing those models. They should have aimed for a slightly lower standard of detail, like Forza 3 & 4 or the last-gen Codemasters games. That way they would have had more cars at acceptable quality.
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Matej
Premium
- 2,006
- Zagreb
True, there are plenty of premium cars already in the game. Around 460 I think. That sure is a quantity.
But what Gran Turismo does now is focus on a few aspects of the game, yet neglecting many important others. That certainly isn't a quality and no premium cars can justify that, regardless of how many are there and how good they may look.
Older installments in the series didn't sacrifice one elements for other.
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
- 6,963
- South Africa
.....Do I want 1400+ cars with half of them PS2 quality or 500-600 cars with the best that PS4 can provide?
A tough question, without a doubt. Would've been easier to answer this if some of more popular cars didn't happen to be "standard"...
I'd say "bye-bye" to standards as I only use half a dozen of them but still, methinks instead of getting rid of 'em altogether, just lose the duplicates for now and convert the rest when time allows. I mean, there are literally ton of stuff that needs attention as is - AI, sound, physics, etc, etc.
A tough question, without a doubt. Would've been easier to answer this if some of more popular cars didn't happen to be "standard"...
I'd say "bye-bye" to standards as I only use half a dozen of them but still, methinks instead of getting rid of 'em altogether, just lose the duplicates for now and convert the rest when time allows. I mean, there are literally ton of stuff that needs attention as is - AI, sound, physics, etc, etc.
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
Just a refresher on this I'm all for cutting down on number of cars premium or standard just to get the BASE GAME back to where it needs to be.
After awhile I'm using Race cars anyone I know the draw of GT is using everyday average cars, but again I'm all for cutting it back to like 200 cars for the time being just to get everything corrected.
Listen simply put it this way would you rather have 200(an example) cars with all tracks from older GT games update, Brand new A.I, Sound, and other features.
Or keep the path we are headed and pray and hope the features come in.
Everyone wants to keep this car or that car, but you can live without it we were able to do it in GT3 think people can do it again for GT7 just to get a better game.
Honestly this Car count crap needs to stop I've played other racing games that don't even have 1/9 of the cars GT6 has, and they're far better in every other department that it's not close.
Car Count != Great game
I've used DiRT 3, F1 2012, Need for Speed(Yep know it's Arcade, but who cares), GRID, and other racing games as well.
All those games barely have over 200 cars if that think NFS Most Wanted 2012 and Hot Pursuit 2010 had like maybe 75 cars at best including DLC.
We already know F1 2012 case and DiRT 3 with the Rally Cars.
Still at the end of the day playing all those games I'm enjoying them because competitive A.I that doesn't put you to sleep. Like GT5 and GT6 did. The way the cars drive feel like I'm in danger to wreck when I mess up, and the immersion is there to just like GT4.
Online is nice I know most will say you can just go there instead of the offline, but sometimes I don't like to so that's not a good alternative.
After awhile I'm using Race cars anyone I know the draw of GT is using everyday average cars, but again I'm all for cutting it back to like 200 cars for the time being just to get everything corrected.
Listen simply put it this way would you rather have 200(an example) cars with all tracks from older GT games update, Brand new A.I, Sound, and other features.
Or keep the path we are headed and pray and hope the features come in.
Everyone wants to keep this car or that car, but you can live without it we were able to do it in GT3 think people can do it again for GT7 just to get a better game.
Honestly this Car count crap needs to stop I've played other racing games that don't even have 1/9 of the cars GT6 has, and they're far better in every other department that it's not close.
Car Count != Great game
I've used DiRT 3, F1 2012, Need for Speed(Yep know it's Arcade, but who cares), GRID, and other racing games as well.
All those games barely have over 200 cars if that think NFS Most Wanted 2012 and Hot Pursuit 2010 had like maybe 75 cars at best including DLC.
We already know F1 2012 case and DiRT 3 with the Rally Cars.
Still at the end of the day playing all those games I'm enjoying them because competitive A.I that doesn't put you to sleep. Like GT5 and GT6 did. The way the cars drive feel like I'm in danger to wreck when I mess up, and the immersion is there to just like GT4.
Online is nice I know most will say you can just go there instead of the offline, but sometimes I don't like to so that's not a good alternative.
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
Not saying throw them away completely, but I'm saying I'll take the hit back down to a manageable number of cars my example is 200 to get back to GT3 and GT4 days of this franchise.
Look they've done it before with GT3 with only 150 cars which is why I love that game it was built with features in mind, or the game in mind, and not HOW MANY CARS CAN WE GET!
Again play some games, and other games that others have mentioned you'll notice a drastic difference between them and GT, and heck you might not even want to go back. That's why I'm happy I got them Cockpit view in DiRT 3 to me is different than GT6. I feel more immersed into DiRT 3 because of a combination with damage, weather, and A.I.
Try it sometime man if you got a PS3 or PC you won't regret it. Also another disclaimer although I mentioned those games they aren't the only ones people have mentioned Asseto Corsa(yeah I haven't seen much of the game so can't spell it).
Matter of fact as I've learned from this past generation PS3/360/Wii don't treat these games companies like they are end all be all make them work for it.
- 5,767
- Anoka, MN
Thing is though, they already have about 400-500 premiums in GT6 that could pretty much go straight into the next game, so there would be no reason to pare it down to around 200 (especially with a good number of new vehicles that have yet to find their way into the game.)
- 94
- Moons of Jupiter
- denonfreak
- 2,117
- Prague
- karelpipa
I am praying for this from at least GT4. So the tracks.
I think that everybody get the ''get rid of standard cars'' wrong.
We DO want the cars, we just DO NOT want the PS2 GRAPHICS anymore. Some tracks/cars has graphics sets from 2001. It is ridiculous.
Everything should be at the same quality.
If they release GT7 with PS2 models, then we know they do not give a sit about their game.
- 6,963
- South Africa
....................That was creepy.
....................Hang on, isn't that Kaz Hirai? You know, Sony chairperson.
- 94
- Moons of Jupiter
- denonfreak
Lol, yeah that's Hirai, I couldn't find a PD's Kaz insane pic...
...He's too busy with GT7's low quality''standard cars''...
I'm sure by the time GT7's first pics appear everyone's jaw here will drop to the floor
and I hope he doesn't try and apply some weird resolution and compromise the game's performance.You never know with Kaz...
Look, I agree that quality is more important than quantity, but I don't think Polyphony should drop the standard models. Why? Because, as Yamauchi said, every car has its fans. I wouldn't want to lose DeLorean S2, BMW M3 GTR, etc. If Polyphony can't convert all of them to Premium, then leave them, but with an option to disable them. With GT7 they should focus on making new Premium cars and converting some of the Standard ones. By the time GT8 comes the number of Standards is going to be small compared to the number of Premiums.Please PD, no standards in GT7. I would rather have 400 premiums then 1000 standards.
I hate to say it. but follow in forzas steps. There is a lot more competition(diveclub,projectcars,thecrew,nfs ug3,etc) out there on next gen consoles. hire more people so you can get things done faster. I know you have the budget to do so. gt6 was not what you said it was going to be. well theres my little rant. I know there is more I am missing
- 94
- Moons of Jupiter
- denonfreak
..I agree with what you said about ''every car has it's fan'' but there's no need for them to be ''standard'' ugly looking PS2 models, by now they should be all ''PREMIUM'' and I know that may be unrealistic since there are too many standard cars but it's their own fault because they've created too many unneccesary dupplicates...
Yeah, you see... Polyphony is a bit close-minded, if that's the right term. They simply refuse to outsource any part of the game development to an external studio. If they did, they'd have enough time to upscale older models along with developing new ones. But they refuse to do it, and that's how Forza manages to evolve more in 2 years than GT does in 3 years...I agree with what you said about ''every car has it's fan'' but there's no need for them to be ''standard'' ugly looking PS2 models, by now they should be all ''PREMIUM'' and I know that may be unrealistic since there are too many standard cars but it's their own fault because they've created too many unneccesary dupplicates...
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So let's just say Polyphony has no time to upscale all of the older models. If that is the case, they should just focus on making new Premium cars until the percentage of Standard models becomes small in comparison. But believe me, just dropping all the Standard models from GT7 is not the answer. They should stay, with the option to disable them from appearing in races and dealerships. After all, GT7 is definitely going to have more Premium than Standard models. GT6 has around 750 Standards and 500 Premiums. I expect GT7 to have at least 750 Premiums.
- 94
- Moons of Jupiter
- denonfreak
''They simply refuse to outsource any part of the game development to an external studio.''
I didn't know that... no wonder they take forever
..smh...
I hope you're right about GT7 700 plus premiums
I didn't know that... no wonder they take forever
..smh...I hope you're right about GT7 700 plus premiums
It's not about giving or not giving a s***, it's about Polyphony being a small, stubborn team that refuses to outsource development of game elements to other studios. For example, if they let another studio develop the AI for their game, they would not have to spend time on developing the AI, and they'd have more time to remodel PS2-era cars. But they don't, and while I hope that changes, if it doesn't, then it's better to have PS2 cars in the game than to just drop them completely. There are Standard cars that I like. I don't want them removed.
That's the biggest problem with Polyphony and I hope it changes. Forza developer Turn 10 not only has 2x-3x more employees, they also outsource audio recording and damage modelling to an external studio. With Polyphony, everything is done inside the same studio and it shows. If that hadn't been the case, GT6 would have had less than 200 Standard cars, as they would have outsourced, say, AI programming, and had far more time to upscale older cars.''They simply refuse to outsource any part of the game development to an external studio.''
I didn't know that... no wonder they take forever
I hope you're right about GT7 700 plus premiums
That doesn't mean I support what Turn 10 did in Forza 5, though. Going from 500 cars down to 200 is not the answer. GT7 shouldn't just kick out the older models. If there's no time to upscale them, it should be up to each player to decide for himself whether he want to see them or not.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
It took PD 10 years to model about 400 unique premiums (not counting base models, livery differences, near duplicates like the Huayra etc. ). This level of production has been consistent even through the GT5 era and into GT6. How do you expect them to nearly double the premium count in 2 years or less? Unrealistic to say the least.
- 53
- FL
why don't they just hire more people, im sure they are rolling in money they can hire more to get things done.
- 94
- Moons of Jupiter
- denonfreak
That would be ideal but knowing PD and Kaz......not a chance
I've been a fan since GT1 on PS1 but lately I've lost the little bit of faith I had in them and I'm glad GT6 didn't sell a lot (not hating) just maybe a wake up call (hopefully) so they can get their s%$#t together for GT7. No doubt that GT7 will sell a lot just because is the new PD game on the new PS4, same thing happened with GT5.
In the meantime we'll have PCars to enjoy!
Competition is not a joke anymore and I'm pretty sure GT7 will be gorgeous but that's gonna be it, just pretty but boring.
I hope they prove me wrong though
I'm taking into account the fact that they are hiring more people and that PS4 is a lot easier to develop for, but yeah, 750 Premiums is a bit of wishful thinking. Hope they at least come close to that number, like 690-720.
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I think they are hiring new people though.That would be ideal but knowing PD and Kaz......not a chance
I've been a fan since GT1 on PS1 but lately I've lost the little bit of faith I had in them and I'm glad GT6 didn't sell a lot (not hating) just maybe a wake up call (hopefully) so they can get their s%$#t together for GT7. No doubt that GT7 will sell a lot just because is the new PD game on the new PS4, same thing happened with GT5.
In the meantime we'll have PCars to enjoy!
Competition is not a joke anymore and I'm pretty sure GT7 will be gorgeous but that's gonna be it, just pretty but boring.
I hope they prove me wrong though
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I am not 100% sure, but I don't think the modeling effort is any different on the PS4, it'll likely require the same level of programming effort, even more perhaps with the higher detail possible on PS4 and the possibility of also having to model the undercarriage and the engine bay to "future proof" the models. You also have to consider that if they are indeed updating many standards to semi-premiums, that will also take away from the effort to model new premiums. Even if they tripled their modeling staff overnight, they'd still have a hard time meeting the 690+ range. If they release the game at Christmas 2015 which is a bit early IMO, I'd guess no more than 100 additional unique new premiums.
I don't think modelling time gets reduced, what I meant was, since other stuff is going to take less development time, there is going to be more time for modelling. That's why I also hope GT7 doesn't come out before late 2016. If released before, it's going to be an unfinished product, just like GT6. Where is that B-Spec already?
- 2,534
- Johannesburg
- Tayeedz1
The time for modelling won't get reduced but there will be a higher yield as opposed to before.
What I mean is, let's say right now that we get 40 new cars every 6 months. Now that there's more modelling staff, that will mean we'll get (hypothetically) 80 cars every 6 months.
Better to have a higher yield to compensate for the time taken.
What I mean is, let's say right now that we get 40 new cars every 6 months. Now that there's more modelling staff, that will mean we'll get (hypothetically) 80 cars every 6 months.
Better to have a higher yield to compensate for the time taken.
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