Quality over Quantity (GT7)
- Thread starter Bloodmasters
- 330 comments
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- 16,104
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
What I want in GT7 is a car list that has the same number as GT4, the same amount of events as GT4, coupled with next-gen graphics and physics. Not to mention course maker and online racing!
- 990
- Morrow, OH
- DRR_Sinyster
- Sinyster Plague
I haven't read this entire thread but I feel like throwing in my two cents.
I'd prefer to have quality over quantity. I believe that GT7 should pull a GT3 all over. As most of us know, and perhaps agree with me on this, GT3 had some of the best graphics (and arguably better than GT4), especially for the cars despite the low count of them.
But that's what I believe GT7 should be: cutting down on the high amount of vehicles. Erase the standards, keep the premiums, BUT, bring back the more popular standards, such as a Supra RZ, or Charger R/T, and convert them into premium models. Bring back the standard Rally/GT1/LMP/etc. cars and make them premium as well.
Another note on that are the convertible cars, like the Caterham 7 or Chrysler(Plymouth) Prowler. They have a highly detailed interior, but are still standard models. What would be so wrong in turning them completely into premium models for us if you've already done most of the work?
All in all, we're at roughly 480 premium cars last I checked, so with the new additions in the next game, on top of the converted models, I say anywhere around 600-700 cars would be a fair amount to have.
I'd prefer to have quality over quantity. I believe that GT7 should pull a GT3 all over. As most of us know, and perhaps agree with me on this, GT3 had some of the best graphics (and arguably better than GT4), especially for the cars despite the low count of them.
But that's what I believe GT7 should be: cutting down on the high amount of vehicles. Erase the standards, keep the premiums, BUT, bring back the more popular standards, such as a Supra RZ, or Charger R/T, and convert them into premium models. Bring back the standard Rally/GT1/LMP/etc. cars and make them premium as well.
Another note on that are the convertible cars, like the Caterham 7 or Chrysler(Plymouth) Prowler. They have a highly detailed interior, but are still standard models. What would be so wrong in turning them completely into premium models for us if you've already done most of the work?
All in all, we're at roughly 480 premium cars last I checked, so with the new additions in the next game, on top of the converted models, I say anywhere around 600-700 cars would be a fair amount to have.
- 441
- Living in your walls
- oli440
Agreed. To be fair, if PD adopted this policy, GT7 would have more cars than most racing games combined, and the standards would be long gone.... that would be a good feeling
In addition, PD's vision of having 1000+ cars won't exactly be shattered, because future updates and installations to the series would just add more and more until eventually, we will have the ultimate car list. Some people are in doubt of the quality of the premium cars at present. I think the premiums are more than good enough for next-gen consoles, assuming that PD will use the photo travel models instead of the on track models.The problem is, Kaz isn't showing any sign of accepting change. I really do think we should bring a clear message across to him. I can only assume that the vast majority of people on these forums would agree that standards are better off going.
Here's a 'what if' scenario for you all:
If I were to take Kaz's place as the frontman of Gran Turismo, I would do the following:
Shelve all the standard car models, to keep as archives, but also to return to them if a certain car is ready for premium treatment (getting performance data, etc)
Collect all 'semi-premium' cars and have them converted to full premiums (all the RUF's the Ford RS200 etc etc etc)
Consult the car requests page and conclude which of the standard cars should be prioritized for premium treatment. As far as I can tell, all the race cars, rally cars and exotic cars (like the Delorean, Tank car, Caterham) should be converted to premium.
Remove all the 'base model' race cars and merge them with the stock vehicles as part of the livery editor
Return to the car requests page, and configure a 200 car list of new additions for GT7..... the Mclaren P1 for instance.
Plan future DLC packs for GT7 after its release. Free car packs containing past GT cars converted to premium, and payed car packs containing all new additions. Always referring to the forums to see what the fans want (since when has Kaz done this?
)And finally..... ensure that the long lost semi-premium model of the Subaru Impreza Rally Car '99 is converted to full premium!!!!
The to do list goes far beyond just the car list....... honestly, if I was offered to take Kaz's place as the frontman of GT, I wouldn't hesitate. Am I right in saying no one here would hesitate?
- 990
- Morrow, OH
- DRR_Sinyster
- Sinyster Plague
Remove all the 'base model' race cars and merge them with the stock vehicles as part of the livery editor
in response to this, I remember looking over in the GT7 UI fanart thread, that someone had made it to where an AM V12 Vantage GT3 had multiple choices of liveries and colours.
I personally think that's also a great way to go as well. Cars such as the Nissan GT-R GT500, or perhaps even the Audi LMS (and LMS Ultra), should have that option. It would cut back on duplicates, and make it much easier on the user.
For example, using the GT-R, we have currently 6 different liveries (excluding the stealth model), and all have the same specs. Why not have it to where you have the car listed as "Nissan GT-R GT500 '08" and when choosing a colour, or livery, they give you the options available from the previous games, and perhaps more as there were more, the base model, which you could customize to your own standards with such a way like in the original GRID, where you can choose a pre-made design, change the colours, and then put in a sponsor in pre-determined locations?
Also, if you choose a pre-made, authentic car, in the races it'll still show up as a "Nissan GT-R GT500 '08" and in (-) would be the livery, such as Xanavi Nismo, or Custom
- 10,208
- South
- HarskGaming96
That's exactly I'm talking about:Agreed. To be fair, if PD adopted this policy, GT7 would have more cars than most racing games combined, and the standards would be long gone.... that would be a good feeling
The problem is, Kaz isn't showing any sign of accepting change. I really do think we should bring a clear message across to him. I can only assume that the vast majority of people on these forums would agree that standards are better off going.
Here's a 'what if' scenario for you all:
If I were to take Kaz's place as the frontman of Gran Turismo, I would do the following:
Shelve all the standard car models, to keep as archives, but also to return to them if a certain car is ready for premium treatment (getting performance data, etc)
Collect all 'semi-premium' cars and have them converted to full premiums (all the RUF's the Ford RS200 etc etc etc)
Consult the car requests page and conclude which of the standard cars should be prioritized for premium treatment. As far as I can tell, all the race cars, rally cars and exotic cars (like the Delorean, Tank car, Caterham) should be converted to premium.
Remove all the 'base model' race cars and merge them with the stock vehicles as part of the livery editor
Return to the car requests page, and configure a 200 car list of new additions for GT7..... the Mclaren P1 for instance.
Plan future DLC packs for GT7 after its release. Free car packs containing past GT cars converted to premium, and payed car packs containing all new additions. Always referring to the forums to see what the fans want (since when has Kaz done this?
And finally..... ensure that the long lost semi-premium model of the Subaru Impreza Rally Car '99 is converted to full premium!!!!
The to do list goes far beyond just the car list....... honestly, if I was offered to take Kaz's place as the frontman of GT, I wouldn't hesitate. Am I right in saying no one here would hesitate?
1- Get rid of standard cars all together and convert them to the premium.
2- Get rid of duplicated versions of MX-5, GTO, S2000's and make them as trim options.
3- And when the livery editor comes to GT7, keep the Base Models as colour options in every race car.
4- It is very important to plan DLC packs after its release. For example, Nostalgia Pack where cars and tracks from previous GT games would return, including TT bikes! Always put the most wanted cars in each forum. And please convert at least 10 standard cars to premium.
5- Consult every single car/track/feature's requests pages and configure at least 300 car list of new adition for GT7. Like BMW M3, for example.
Nooboogering
(Banned)
- 349
- Nooboogering
- 10,208
- South
- HarskGaming96
If GT7 comes for PS4, then yes.
- 170
- Great Britain
I truly believe it was an insane decision to keep PS2 car models in a PS3 game as Polyphony could not let go. If these models continue to PS4, I just don't know what to believe anymore!
Gran Turismo is one of my favourite ever Video games but some design decisions stagger me.
Infinity Ward don't keep their Call of Duty 2 character models in Titan Fall just to keep enemy character models up! Despite the backlash it would bring in some sectors of this forum, most rational people don't care about car numbers, they just want a consistent, brilliant GT game.
Gran Turismo is one of my favourite ever Video games but some design decisions stagger me.
Infinity Ward don't keep their Call of Duty 2 character models in Titan Fall just to keep enemy character models up! Despite the backlash it would bring in some sectors of this forum, most rational people don't care about car numbers, they just want a consistent, brilliant GT game.
- 50,874
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
Would we have bought GT6 or would GT6 have been a better game if it only had the equivalent cars from GT1 not carried over from GT5?
We would still get the "NEW TO GT6" cars(see GT6 car list), VGT and GT6 DLC content(Senna, new tracks, etc.) and tracks that are currently in GT6.
ASTON MARTIN(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6 )
CHEVROLET
Chevrolet Corvette Sting Ray '14
DODGE(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6)
HONDA(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6)
MAZDA(NO EQUIVALENT CARS IN GT6 )
MITSUBISHI(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6)
NISSAN(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6)
SUBARU(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6)
TOYOTA(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6 )
TVR(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6 )
Which after 15 years, leaves us with only 1 car that is a direct equivalent from GT1, not carried over from GT5.
We would still get the "NEW TO GT6" cars(see GT6 car list), VGT and GT6 DLC content(Senna, new tracks, etc.) and tracks that are currently in GT6.
ASTON MARTIN(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6 )
CHEVROLET
Chevrolet Corvette Sting Ray '14
DODGE(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6)
HONDA(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6)
MAZDA(NO EQUIVALENT CARS IN GT6 )
MITSUBISHI(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6)
NISSAN(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6)
SUBARU(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6)
TOYOTA(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6 )
TVR(NO EQUIVALENT NEW CARS IN GT6 )
Which after 15 years, leaves us with only 1 car that is a direct equivalent from GT1, not carried over from GT5.
CAMAROBOY69
Premium
- 18,567
- Michigan
- CAMAROBOY69
Should be 1,000 premium cars. There should not have to be a sacrifice. If you cant release 1,000 fully finished premium cars, don't release GT7. Just my opinion.
- 2,534
- Johannesburg
- Tayeedz1
1000 premiums would be nice but that seems to be pushing it. 700 should be the cap imo. GT needs to focus on other stuff as well. Like the bodykits and other things
- 58
- United Kingdom
I believe Polyphony need to re-establish Gran Turismo as a premium brand.
- 1,079
- Norway
How many cars did GT3 have again? wiki says 150 down from GT2's 650. The game still sold insanely well. Does anyone really think going from 1200 mixed cars to 600+ premium cars is going to be a problem, as long as they make sure to upgrade and include a good variety in segments where there are few premiums and many standards?
- 8,712
GT3's high sales figure is more likely because of the impressive market penetration of the PS2 in North America, and the marketing lavished upon GT3. Notice a GT game has not had that success before or since in that region, whereas the profile in other regions does not favour GT3 anywhere near as much, if at all. What the data do show is how successful the PS2 versions were outside of Japan, which is a reflection of the success of the PS2 in general.
By that same flawed logic, we could infer that the Standards did not dampen sales at all for GT5. In other words, it has nothing much to do with it, certainly in no tangible fashion. One thing to remember is just how many PS2s there were for GT4's launch and the cost of a PS2 versus the equivalents for GT5. GT6 launched just after the PS4...
http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html
The PS4 isn't doing too badly compared to the PS3 (for Sony, not sure about sales overall), but clearly it remains to be seen what kind of uptake a GT game would have there, and this chart will provide few clues. Besides, it's pretty obvious the car count would have little effect on the typical buyer - which isn't us, by the way.
- 10,208
- South
- HarskGaming96
Well, the most succesfull GT games are GT4 and GT5. I enjoyed a lot of playing GT4 and I completed it to 100% once!
In my opinion, GT6 is better than GT5 but in terms of enjoying, majority of people aren't happy with GT6 not only because the GT rally, course maker and Shuffle racing are removed but also because there are standard cars, especially, duplicates from MX-5, Silvias, NSX's....
I think that Standard cars must not be thrown away from GT7, but at least, PD should upgrade at least 5-10 standard cars to premium each update. Not an offense but an opinion.
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
Actually believe it's GT3 and GT5 or maybe even GT3 and GT4 yep it's GT3 and GT4.
For the last time the car list needs to be trimmed there is a lot of fat.
Most MX's, Skyline's, etc etc. can have different Liveries they don't need their own tab, and there really are some cars majority don't truly want I can bank on that one as well.
So far the larger the car count with GT the worse the game becomes they've spent so much time on that number they forgot the rest of the game.
That's why I and I'm sure some others wouldn't mind starting over maybe 400 cars with PS4 level graphics etc. Giving us a penalty system, qualification weekend, damage. If they keep adding onto the 1197 and make it 1500 it's probably back to square one, but at that point no one would care because they'll probably be moved on.
- 8,712
Correlation does not imply causation. The difference in sales is more likely to do with the console success and market conditions, than just the car count alone. To suggest that GT4 sold less well than GT3 because it had more cars is absurd. GT4 was clearly the better game, also.
Could it be that time spent on content, by people who only make content, is a separate thing from time spent on the game's systems, by people who only work on the game's systems? Remember that programming and content creation are not directly tradable, you don't inherently get "more programming" by settling for less content, and vice versa.
When 95% of the content delivers the expected experience in the primary mode of use (driving), I think that's a success. Yes, they look "ugly", and you can't do certain aesthetic things with them, but they're still a lot of fun to drive on their own terms - ignoring any slight disadvantage with the lack of "detailed interiors", which of course is not a PD-exclusive concern. The way the AI is tuned for racing has nothing to do with the car count.
My personal prediction is that the Standards will only lack in terms of interior detail in GT7.
Could it be that time spent on content, by people who only make content, is a separate thing from time spent on the game's systems, by people who only work on the game's systems? Remember that programming and content creation are not directly tradable, you don't inherently get "more programming" by settling for less content, and vice versa.
When 95% of the content delivers the expected experience in the primary mode of use (driving), I think that's a success. Yes, they look "ugly", and you can't do certain aesthetic things with them, but they're still a lot of fun to drive on their own terms - ignoring any slight disadvantage with the lack of "detailed interiors", which of course is not a PD-exclusive concern. The way the AI is tuned for racing has nothing to do with the car count.
My personal prediction is that the Standards will only lack in terms of interior detail in GT7.
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
The first part in bold can be argued I like GT3 more so than GT4 although GT4 place in GT history is without a doubt great.
As for the rest simply put Standards are en eyesore they are that way on GT5/GT6 some not so much others there are countless examples that have been made fun of, and it's not even the aesthetic things I'm after, but I would like some real issues if I'm in first person view you know.
Other games I've played go beyond the HEY GRAFIXS SO AWESOMZOMG!!! which I assume you mean by the aesthetics.
I guess that's the problem I have with the second bold part in GT I don't want to drive I want to race.
This video to me is Driving
Vs. This video to me is Racing
Basically I want GT to be a racing game that you can take your average everyday cars and go out to track and race it's that simple!
- 8,712
The two are not mutually exclusive, driving and racing. Shades of grey.
I don't get why people "making fun" of the way Standards look should mean they can't be enjoyed, and I don't personally consider them an actual eyesore (hyperbole, yo), although they are obviously noticeably less detailed. They're still very well made to the limits imposed at the time, and I suppose that helps me appreciate them more - if that doesn't register to some, I guess those people could see them in a lesser light. But all of that is irrelevant to the core argument.
The interior view is the only thing that gets in the way of enjoying driving (and / or racing) them.
There is no connection between the visual detail of the cars and the perceived "quality" of the racing in the game!
(That would be a "strawman" argument.)
- 50,874
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
I'm enjoying the simplified interior BMW 330i and '05 Audi S4 at the moment. They both drive very good as Bridgestone Production Car replicas. Look good in replays too.
For me, if a game like TOCA 1 for PS1, had interiors all through that series, why hasn't GT? Kaz is saying now, moving forward, he can finally present the game as he always wanted. Hiring new engineers now and gathering sound data the right way. There is hope.
Oh, and about that M4 Coupe. When it came out, we couldn't see the interior. Then we got an update and could then see the interior. Hopefully they are hiring help.
For me, if a game like TOCA 1 for PS1, had interiors all through that series, why hasn't GT? Kaz is saying now, moving forward, he can finally present the game as he always wanted. Hiring new engineers now and gathering sound data the right way. There is hope.
Oh, and about that M4 Coupe. When it came out, we couldn't see the interior. Then we got an update and could then see the interior. Hopefully they are hiring help.
- 8,712
Aye, it's a cracker, the 330i. 👍
The original TOCA had 8 cars (well, 10 including the silly, by which I mean awesome, cheat cars) at the same time that GT had 140. Polygon counts back then were such that the effort required to get the requisite detail and accuracy was much lower than it is today.
The "interior view" problem doesn't just affect PD at the moment. I never expected cockpit views for the series at all, and the announcement of them for GT5 / GT5P led me to expect a much-reduced car count (again), despite the longer wait (vs. GT3). I'd actually openly hoped for at least the option of "legacy" cars to be carried over from GT4.
So in my mind, the announced car count of 1000+, plus the interior view claim, was clearly obscuring something: Standards. Thankfully they were shown in their own trailer (with the same sounds as GT4) before the game went on sale. But the much-reduced car count technically remained: Premiums.
PD are simply continuing to expand their workforce, as they always have done. It's a shame they seem to have had to make it so visibly obvious.
👍The original TOCA had 8 cars (well, 10 including the silly, by which I mean awesome, cheat cars) at the same time that GT had 140. Polygon counts back then were such that the effort required to get the requisite detail and accuracy was much lower than it is today.
The "interior view" problem doesn't just affect PD at the moment. I never expected cockpit views for the series at all, and the announcement of them for GT5 / GT5P led me to expect a much-reduced car count (again), despite the longer wait (vs. GT3). I'd actually openly hoped for at least the option of "legacy" cars to be carried over from GT4.
So in my mind, the announced car count of 1000+, plus the interior view claim, was clearly obscuring something: Standards. Thankfully they were shown in their own trailer (with the same sounds as GT4) before the game went on sale. But the much-reduced car count technically remained: Premiums.
PD are simply continuing to expand their workforce, as they always have done. It's a shame they seem to have had to make it so visibly obvious.
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
Keeping it more simplistic I don't care too much for deep convo's, but right now if GT wants to be driving then make it Forza Horizon 2 problem solved.
Standards cars/tracks etc is pretty much saying they are lazy, and honestly although you don't consider them an eyesore it's what they are.
It's like using Windows 95 Computer to play Assassin's Creed Unity
Have to finish this post later.
- 1,148
- United States
Remove all the duplicates first like all the unnecessary Skylines and Miatas. If this is somehow difficult for them, try keeping at least one car per generation. For example: one R32, one R33, and one R34. If a car is really important to keep (like the Nissan Skyline Pace Car), keep it.
Also, the duplicates like the Japanese and European versions of cars are unneeded. Speaking of duplicates, Vauxhall and Opel, remove one of the two as they're completely the same!
Also, the duplicates like the Japanese and European versions of cars are unneeded. Speaking of duplicates, Vauxhall and Opel, remove one of the two as they're completely the same!
- 8,712
Similar cars should be rolled under the same model, so it'd go manufacturer -> model -> trim. Or similar.
Outright duplicates, of which there aren't that many, should probably be removed. The roster could do with the data and appearances double checking to eliminate inaccuracies, too.
A tidier presentation will work wonders.
Outright duplicates, of which there aren't that many, should probably be removed. The roster could do with the data and appearances double checking to eliminate inaccuracies, too.
A tidier presentation will work wonders.
- 10,208
- South
- HarskGaming96
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