Ron Paul has it right about the mosque debate

[Ustasa]

The people worth listening to would be able to be heard and would rise to fill the gap. People like Ron Paul. Right now it's difficult for him to be heard by everyday Americans because the neo-cons use their outside voices in the restroom.

Interesting

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this...

The ease in with which it was done , no resistance

 

[nk4e]

The ease in with which it was done , no resistance

No resistence? The crowd didn't even let a Contractor through without yelling at him.

 

[Famine]

What was it they're supposed to be resisting? American citizens opening a community centre for all citizens in America?

 

[Joel]

The ease in with which it was done , no resistance

It should be done easily with no resistance...

Why is it OK to violate people's rights just because a few whackjobs who happen to believe in the same god flew a plane into a building 9 years ago?

Answer that for me, please.

 

[Ustasa]

It should be done easily with no resistance...

Why is it OK to violate people's rights just because a few whackjobs who happen to believe in the same god flew a plane into a building 9 years ago?

Answer that for me, please.

The ease in which it was done no resistance was in reply to how the government is taking away civil liberties as in the ease in which it was done
which I also think was assisted with fear .

As for your other question I do not know but you might get some answers in the open ended and unresolved issues with that particular inquiry and the way it's investigation was completely unprofessional .

People just do not fly planes into buildings for no reason , nor do governments seek for weapons of mass destruction then move it on to fighting terror and then finally try to establish Democracy in one and all the same place and achieve not one of it's goal$ , especially with the most advanced and devastating and in humane weapons known on the face of the Earth .

 

[Famine]

The ease in which it was done no resistance was in reply to how the government is taking away civil liberties as in the ease in which it was done
which I also think was assisted with fear.

Can you fill me in on what this has to do with a not-a-Mosque located at not-Ground-Zero?

 

[DK]

I'm glad at least one Republican is talking sense about the Islamic community centre near Ground Zero. Chances are that the 70% of Americans who oppose this still think it's a mosque, not a community centre, and that it's being run by Islamic extremists, not moderates.

 

[Ustasa]

Can you fill me in on what this has to do with a not-a-Mosque located at not-Ground-Zero?

noob616 Platinum Member
Protecting rights > Not offending people.

You don't have a right to not be offended. It sets a horrible precedent to block a Mosque here, just a brutally arbitrary line. I understand that to some it's like adding insult to injury, but that doesn't justify brutally violating the rights to freedom or religion/assembly, and setting a horrible precedent in the process.


It's incredibly ironic that the same government that supposedly fights for freedom, is stripping its own citizens of it on home soil.

Above is the original post I replied to if you read the lower paragraph then I am sure you will work it out and notice that is is strictly a reply to this lower paragraph as was my post before and realize it has nothing to do with not-a-Mosque located at not-Ground-Zero? but that one paragraph

Can you now fill me in on your persistence ?

 

[Nicksfix]

This was a topic of discussion on the local talk radio show about a week ago.Honestly speaking,the better majority of the callers were dead set against this idea.I will also agree,I'm against it.The way certain Americans still feel about 911,it's basically a slap in the face towards those Americans who are still touched by the incident.

I'm not going to condemn those Muslims who are of good faith to this country and adhere to our laws,but it does give the bad Muslims something to ram down our throat.Which is why I'm against it.

This is a very interesting topic by the way. 👍

 

[Northstar]

but it does give the bad Muslims something to ram down our throat.

It's actually the opposite, by raising such a fuss over the mosque we are showing them that we are indeed terrified of them, which is exactly what they want. Building the mosque means that we are able to push differences aside to continue to allow our freedom, it doesn't reduce the impact 9/11 had at all.

 

[Famine]

Can you now fill me in on your persistence ?

Yes. I wanted to know what your responses were about if not about the not-Mosque not-at-Ground-Zero.

This was a topic of discussion on the local talk radio show about a week ago.Honestly speaking,the better majority of the callers were dead set against this idea.I will also agree,I'm against it.The way certain Americans still feel about 911,it's basically a slap in the face towards those Americans who are still touched by the incident.

It's not a Mosque and it's not at Ground Zero. Where's the face-slap?

 

[lbsf1]

I think they have as much right for a mosque near ground one as anywhere. It is the peacefull sunni majority who want this mosque. It was the part extremist shia muslims who caused 9/11. I'm watching the 102 mins of 9/11 now and there are americans shouting that all muslims should be killed, americans need to seriously realise that the vast, vast majority of muslims are peacefull and thought 9/11 was wrong, so I wish the americans would stop having this preduce towards them, they just want a place to worship near their homes which just happens to be hear ground one.

Edit: Ok its not a mosque its an islamic centre. Which is pretty much the same thing but they just use that name because it is partly a muslim comunity centre aswell, not just a place of worship.

Its like the mosque argument near our town (Camberley) the vast majority just thought hey its a place for them to practise their religion whats the problem, its just a minority making a fuss who don't want the mosque (for usually quite small and insignificant reasons) and blowing it out of proportion. So then the media arrive and make it even bigger.

 

[Famine]

Edit: Ok its not a mosque its an islamic centre. Which is pretty much the same thing but they just use that name because it is partly a muslim comunity centre aswell, not just a place of worship.

How many mosques do you know of with a basketball court and swimming pool?

It's not a mosque. There'll be a prayer room on-site - it is, after all, an Islamic Cultural Centre - but it's not a mosque. Say it with me. It's. Not. A. Mosque.

Here's their site, the evil bastards...

 

[Nicksfix]

The biggest issue is that it's not a mosque.

Call it what you will,Mosque,Cathedral,Temple,place of worship,whatever.Does it matter ? The issue of putting up this "place" so close to ground zero is the issue.

Where's the face-slap?

You answered your own question here.

it's two blocks away from the WTC.

I would love to stay and chat some more on this,but I've got vacation time to burn up. I'll check back in a week.

 

[Famine]

Call it what you will,Mosque,Cathedral,Temple,place of worship,whatever.Does it matter?

Yes. "The Ground Zero Mosque" not being either a mosque or at Ground Zero is a bit of a problem.

The issue of putting up this "place" so close to ground zero is the issue.

Why? How far does it have to be from Ground Zero before it stops being an issue? What distance becomes appropriate for you to stop having a say in what private organisations do on the property they own? Fancy having your government step in and pass a law respecting religion?

Go read Charlie Brooker's article again.

 

[lbsf1]

Famine it is a Muslim comunity centre.

And.

Its NEAR ground zero. (yes I know I called it ground one a minute ago that was my mistake)

 

[Famine]

An Islamic Cultural Centre, yes. Like what I done gone said.

And?

And it's 2 blocks away from Ground Zero - same question as above. How far does it have to be before it's not a problem? Real estate in New York doesn't grow on trees.

 

[lbsf1]

I will rephase that then.

It is basicly a muslim comunity centre. Like we have churches conected to a comunity centre this is kinda the same just muslim.

The reason I mentioned this was to put my part in the why is it not a mosque and not at ground zero.

After watching footage where people are being hit by debris from the falling trade centre and struggling to breathe 4 blocks away then it is quite close.

 

[Famine]

I suggest you reread their site before you decide what it "basicly" is.

So, how far away is far enough away?

 

[lbsf1]

So that backs up my original post on why americans shouldn't have a problem with the "Muslim cultural centre"

I think that the building should be allowed to be built no matter how close. But I put myself in the shoes of one of the people who don't want it there and why they probably don't want it that close.

 

[Famine]

They can have a problem with whatever they want to have a problem with. It's just making sure it's the right thing they have a problem with.

 

[lbsf1]

Good we have that settled then.

 

[Dotini]

It's actually the opposite, by raising such a fuss over the mosque we are showing them that we are indeed terrified of them, which is exactly what they want. Building the mosque means that we are able to push differences aside to continue to allow our freedom, it doesn't reduce the impact 9/11 had at all.

This is quite perceptive, except I might substitute the following:

"By raising such an ignorant fuss, we are alienating the moderate, law abiding Muslims, and playing into the hands of the extremists, both of the neo-con variety and Al-Qaeda."

In short, we are acting like idiots and are capable of much better.

 

[a6m5]

Well, it's a community center with a mosque in it, right? Honestly, I'm not aware of the details. Way the public is resisting it though, I'd assume it's a Muslim sponsored community center, but I don't know that for fact either.

Maybe you have it around the wrong way Hollywood is not real as Fox news is not real so why should Al Qaeda be real or sorry was that bombs of mass destruction or wait were we not meant to liberate someone I just can't seem to put my finger$$$ on it .

Also the who is not to say the CIA is not in partnership with these supposed Muslims ?

They have had many other bizarre partnerships why not this also , CIA Muslims always look scarier !

I don't know what you just said. Anyway, I thought it was an interesting perspective, so I brought it up. That is all.

It's actually the opposite, by raising such a fuss over the mosque we are showing them that we are indeed terrified of them, which is exactly what they want. Building the mosque means that we are able to push differences aside to continue to allow our freedom, it doesn't reduce the impact 9/11 had at all.

That is exactly right. I didn't get the chance to post last night, but when I wrote about being the "bigger person", that goes both ways.

 

[Jondot]

It's not a mosque. There'll be a prayer room on-site - it is, after all, an Islamic Cultural Centre - but it's not a mosque. Say it with me. It's. Not. A. Mosque.

Exactly. If this thing's a mosque for having a prayer room then Heathrow airport must be a Catholic church. It's got a chapel so it's clearly a church.

 

[Dotini]

Maybe you have it around the wrong way Hollywood is not real as Fox news is not real so why should Al Qaeda be real or sorry was that bombs of mass destruction or wait were we not meant to liberate someone I just can't seem to put my finger$$$ on it .

Also the who is not to say the CIA is not in partnership with these supposed Muslims ?

They have had many other bizarre partnerships why not this also , CIA Muslims always look scarier !

I don't know what you just said. Anyway, I thought it was an interesting perspective, so I brought it up. That is all.

Duke is our authority on conspiracy theories. I don't think it's disputed the CIA was allied with various characters including bin Laden and the Taliban during the Soviet war on Afghanistan. Beyond that, I know nothing.

 

[Ustasa]

Duke is our authority on conspiracy theories. I don't think it's disputed the CIA was allied with various characters including bin Laden and the Taliban during the Soviet war on Afghanistan. Beyond that, I know nothing.

As you can see neither do I .

I don't know what you just said. Anyway, I thought it was an interesting perspective, so I brought it up. That is all.

It seems nobody likes metaphors any more ? Sorry for the confusion

 

[nk4e]

Contemporary features
Modern mosques have a variety of amenities available to their congregants. As mosques are supposed to appeal to the community, they may also have additional facilities, from health clinics to libraries to gymnasiums, to serve the community.

Can't really trust Wiki but I found this sub section in there. I was talking to my co worker about this and she states that Mosques are built on conquered land. I will have to do some more research to see if that is true or not.

 

[Ustasa]

Why? How far does it have to be from Ground Zero before it stops being an issue? What distance becomes appropriate for you to stop having a say in what private organisations do on the property they own? Fancy having your government step in and pass a law respecting religion?

I hope you will find this to be related that if government's really found Muslims to be so threatening and dangerous as they portray on news networks around the world they would not be allowing such an influx to become citizens .

 

[nk4e]

I hope you will find this to be related that if government's really found Muslims to be so threatening and dangerous as they portray on news networks around the world they would not be allowing such a huge influx to become citizens .

Freedom of Religion? Our government can't argue or side with one religion or the other.