- 9,058
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
It's always the rich 1%. Damn them.👎
Save the Manuals!
- Thread starter Beeblebrox237
- 1,025 comments
- 78,626 views
It's always the rich 1%. Damn them.👎
One thing I wonder about those that complain about stop-and-go traffic is what kind of car they have. Personally, I'm more inclined to get pissed at the traffic itself, my transmission being a distant concern.
Unless their low-end RPM range is severely anemic and/or their transmission is a clunky POS, it shouldn't be that hard to just blip the throttle and release the clutch slowly. Especially considering that 1st gear, on most daily drivers, is extremely short specifically to help launching.
Unless their low-end RPM range is severely anemic and/or their transmission is a clunky POS, it shouldn't be that hard to just blip the throttle and release the clutch slowly. Especially considering that 1st gear, on most daily drivers, is extremely short specifically to help launching.
- 3,475
- Vilnius
In first place if you buy a car just to fill in the traffic jams, rather buy a bicycle.
- 27,221
- United Kingdom
When a reasonable proportion of this forum live in Europe (where traffic is generally heavy and streets are tight) and drive relatively small cars, it's entirely reasonable that people can see the appeal of automatics in traffic.
It's not hard to drive a manual vehicle in traffic. But once you've been crawling along for an hour on and off the clutch, an auto is certainly preferable. You've not gone as far as to say manuals are better than autos in traffic, but if that's what you're implying then it's nonsense.
Manuals have plenty of benefits over automatics. Driving in stop-start traffic is absolutely the last thing I'd choose to defend them...
- 23,800
- Philippines
Manuals are a whole lot more efficient in traffic than slushboxes. (Not DCTs or CVTs, mind you... there's still an advantage there, but it's small). But that hardly matters after you've been sitting in stop-and-go gridlock for two hours.
Which is why, on Saturdays when congestion is at its worst, I take the bus.
Which is why, on Saturdays when congestion is at its worst, I take the bus.
- 8,230
- Drayton Bassett, North Warwickshire
- Duffers999
- Clark Duffy
For me it comes down to the fact that driving a manual isn't difficult in anyway, its just another thing to enjoy when driving for fun. Yes it can be annoying in traffic, especially if you have a heavy clutch like mine, but in most everyday driving you don't boric changing gears as you just do it automatically without thinking.
Nobody ever complains about pedalling on a bicycle...
Nobody ever complains about pedalling on a bicycle...
McLaren
Premium
- 45,692
- Texas
Not really the same thing, imo. Pedaling is just 1 constant motion; once you're moving, that's pretty much it, like an automatic transmission basically.
- 7,938
- LMSCorvetteGT2's Mom's House
- GTP_LancerEvo7
You have to shift most bicycles as well.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,692
- Texas
I haven't ridden a bike in years, but last I remembered, it's 1 motion of the hand/finger.
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
- 27,221
- United Kingdom
Not a great example. If we're to compare it to cars, then pedaling is like driving normally, in no traffic. Once you're going, you're going.
Nose-to-tail traffic is more like being on a bike, going uphill, but having to come to a halt every ten feet and re-start again. Going uphill is constant work and you can use cadence to pedal efficiently, but if you're asked to constantly stop it'd soon become tiresome.
Driving a manual is fine when you're just driving along, and it's even fine zipping down a B-road and changing gears. But being on and off the clutch constantly is frankly a pain in the hole. I've driven in enough heavy traffic in London/Birmingham/Leeds/Newcastle and so-on in both manuals and autos to know that autos are a hell of a lot easier...
- 3,202
- Murcie LP710
This is the sum of my opinion as well. Despite the inconveniences in stop-start traffic situations I love the feel of driving my manual daily. Because of the modifications SIC EM 2.0 has had as well, just shifting the gears feels really awesome. Heavy, but awesome.
- 17,865
- 509
Maybe on a cheap Walmart special. My road bike shift gears very quickly...
Drive a new BMW with an 8 speed auto or a new Volkswagen with a DSG. Drive it a couple of days, you need to drive it in heavy traffic also. You're lying if you say you still prefer a manual for your daily...
Pretty much this. Most people on here complaining about stop and go traffic probably haven't spent 3 to 4 hours sitting in it before with no escape. Or in a car with a heavier clutch (looking at all the Japanese cars here).
- 17,865
- 509
Or had an hour of stop and go highway driving on the way to or from work for a while and/or lived in a city.. Or driven a newer, sophisticated auto. Ignorance is bliss
Pretty much. I was regretting the manual in my M3 after I spent 5 hours driving down the coast from San Francisco only to get caught in LA rush hour traffic, thus adding 3 hours of literal stop and go traffic.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Worst ever was about four hours, crawling in stop-and-go with a "Stage 2" racing clutch and an engine overheating thanks to cam lobe overlap aggressive enough to pass baby birds through without singeing their feathers.
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Oh, and that one time it took me three hours to drive three miles. In a van. Pure, unadulterated agony. I actually gave up and parked the damn thing at a 7-11 a quarter mile from home. The walk home was the easiest part of the whole trip.
I don't love automatics, and I will still buy a manual transmission any time of the day, simply for the fuel economy benefits. But I can relate to anyone who is not willing to drive one in our traffic.
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Oh, and that one time it took me three hours to drive three miles. In a van. Pure, unadulterated agony. I actually gave up and parked the damn thing at a 7-11 a quarter mile from home. The walk home was the easiest part of the whole trip.
I don't love automatics, and I will still buy a manual transmission any time of the day, simply for the fuel economy benefits. But I can relate to anyone who is not willing to drive one in our traffic.
- 3,567
- HOODFIELD
I'd like to be added, here's me:
I learned to drive in a 5-Speed Dodge Omni with no powersteering.
My first car was a 1995 Nissan Altima 5-Speed. My second car was a 2004 Dodge Ram 1500 Automatic.
I've experienced both and now I'm back to Manual on my GTI. When I was car shopping I test drove VW DSG as well. I was impressed but I still went for the stick because I was craving it after depriving myself in that truck for so long.
I found it odd that VW DSG gets 1-2 mpg better than their manual. This was the first time I have seen Automatic outperform manual mpg wise.
Some other features that are new to me are the shift indicator gauge, which is telling me to be in 6th gear even though I'm only going 45 mph, obviously optimized for gas milege. Also the clutch/steep hill scenario is solved with a mechanism that holds your brake just long enough for you to engauge the clutch and get rolling. Also 6-Speeds rather than 5. Manual may be dying but at least they are still improving on cars that do have it.
I learned to drive in a 5-Speed Dodge Omni with no powersteering.
My first car was a 1995 Nissan Altima 5-Speed. My second car was a 2004 Dodge Ram 1500 Automatic.
I've experienced both and now I'm back to Manual on my GTI. When I was car shopping I test drove VW DSG as well. I was impressed but I still went for the stick because I was craving it after depriving myself in that truck for so long.
I found it odd that VW DSG gets 1-2 mpg better than their manual. This was the first time I have seen Automatic outperform manual mpg wise.
Some other features that are new to me are the shift indicator gauge, which is telling me to be in 6th gear even though I'm only going 45 mph, obviously optimized for gas milege. Also the clutch/steep hill scenario is solved with a mechanism that holds your brake just long enough for you to engauge the clutch and get rolling. Also 6-Speeds rather than 5. Manual may be dying but at least they are still improving on cars that do have it.
- 3,567
- HOODFIELD
Depends on if your use to the car or not. I'm not going to claim I can hop into any car especially one I never drove before, go to the stepest hill I can find and not roll back at all or smoke the clutch a little trying to not avoid rolling back. Every clutch feels different so yes I'd say it's an issue, if it wasn't why did they add this feature?
- 8,230
- Drayton Bassett, North Warwickshire
- Duffers999
- Clark Duffy
I was just wondering if it was a feature available on all Golfs (GTi or Not), or just US/Canada etc.
All I'd do is release the clutch just to the bite point and then release the handbrake so the car is being held stationary just by the clutch, then slowly feed in the power while simultaneously releasing the clutch.
All I'd do is release the clutch just to the bite point and then release the handbrake so the car is being held stationary just by the clutch, then slowly feed in the power while simultaneously releasing the clutch.
- 3,567
- HOODFIELD
I would imagine it's a feature available on new cars in general. Like I said, I haven't bought a stick shift since 1995 so I was impressed with the new features. My friend has an older CC that has a "hill hold" button. Same concept but it's an actual button. On mine you don't have to do anything. What your doing with your handbrake is basically the same concept.
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
- 27,221
- United Kingdom
Actually, it's not really to do with that. Those "enthusiast" manual transmissions are still bought by non-enthusiasts in Europe who don't give a shizzle what the gearing is like.
DSG is more efficient than the equivalent manual because the car is tested in its automatic mode when it's being run for its fuel economy numbers.
Carmakers set nice, conveniently low shift points in the software that aces fuel economy testing, rather than having to follow the pre-determined shift points for vehicles with manual transmissions, which might not be quite as gas-sipping*. And DSGs are still essentially manual transmissions in their operation, meaning you don't waste as much fuel spinning up a torque converter, hence the general improvement over old autos of the past**.
* Unfortunately, many manual gearboxes are now being optimised for fuel economy testing too, letting them ace tests at the expense of driveability. If there's another reason to go for auto above manual, it's that many manuals are gradually being compromised to hit good fuel figures.
** Many modern torque converter autos are also now more efficient than manuals, thanks to the aforementioned shift points, having more gears (seven, eight, nine for perfect performance/economy) and the fact that with modern software, you can lock up the torque converter earlier to give more direct drive, rather than having it spin away wasting fuel all the time.
- 3,202
- Murcie LP710
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