Shootings and explosions in Paris.

[W3H5]

Talk about a pretty dumb reason to ban guns, let alone knives. I say this because the pen I'm currently holding is equally a threat to human life.

That you just confirm that Europe is a place of dumb laws.

I didn't say anything about any banning of guns. In places where guns aren't legal in public (like most of the 1st world, except a handful of nations) it's not "to ban guns" when they are already prohibited. Most 1st world countries that allow personal gun ownership still don't allow open or concealed carry, or carry without a permit.

What is dumb is to assume that something that primary serves the role of a weapon or an instrument of cutting is less threatening than a pen. I don't like repeating myself because you failed to read the previous explanation but the UK knife rules are there because there is very little reason for somebody to carry a knife without a justified reason, though circumstances do exist where it is permitted, whereas a pen is a different ball(point) game all together.

The US is the only country on this list which allows permit free gun ownership and is also ranked in the top 20 for gun related deaths among a whole bunch of 3rd world developing nations (excluding SA in that). Make of that what you will. Stats are here and here. Now compare that the UK figures where guns are tightly regulated. The figures speak volumes.

Dumb laws? How about it being illegal to import Haggis into the USA from the UK? Would you not consider that dumb? Let's not go off topic even more about dumb laws when there are a catalogue of, in my view, ridiculous laws in the US.

We're all entitled to our opinions though, aren't we? (That's rhetorical, you don't need to answer that.)

Any it look to me like Hollande stand to benefit from this tragedy as its a distraction from France poor economy and his very own unoopularity.

That word you used before... began...'du'..something...'b'....what was it....? That's the word I would use to describe this sentence. Oh, and unintelligible, inaccurate and a complete mess.

Sorry to all you others for my off-topic education lesson for Mr.A2K78. I quite like guns despite what it might sound like above.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Charlie Hebdo:
"They got the weapons -- Screw them, we got the Champagne!" - CNN

 

[doblocruiser]

Hollande won't benefit from this situation French people blame it heavily on the gouverment and due to years of "worsening" the France we love and cherish, this attack doesn't add at all to something positive for Hollande. The messures he wants to take are said by UMPS for months and by the Front National for years. Years of laxity comes straight back into their face! They made promisses in January last year after the first attack (Charlie) and nothing was done in the end.

On BFMTV (news channel) it was stated that in a video from "Daech" they published in March it was said that "Daech" would provide a massive stream of migrants to de-stabilize Europe and and in the same time sending their "murder commando's" among those streams to Europe.

Source: http://www.bfmtv.com/mediaplayer/vi...ans-le-debat-autour-des-attentats-696594.html

Well they definitely kept promise so expect to see and hear much more misery in and around Europe the comming months.

 

[JKgo]

Charlie Hebdo:
"They got the weapons -- Screw them, we got the Champagne!" - CNN

...Classy as ever, I see.

 

[Johnnypenso]

...Classy as ever, I see.

It's satire, it's not supposed to be classy. It's supposed to draw attention, spark debate, encourage discussion, attack the issues of the day in an inventive and thought provoking way etc.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Will this picture change Europe?

Christ on a bike, take that down please

 

[Terronium-12]

Let's take a moment.

Yes, this is a tragic event that's taken place and I more than understand the strong feelings it has brought about as a result, however, that does not permit nor is it grounds for posting obscene images that blatantly go against the AUP. It's still obscene and it is disrespectful.

From this point on, and this is a friendly reminder, do not post these kinds of images, videos, or articles again because it will result in automatic warnings, infractions, or bans with the utmost prejudice.

 

[Dennisch]

German police arrested 7 persons, including 2 women, in the city of Alsdorf today.

Edit.

And it seems that there is another who was too scared to blow himself up, as the French report that there is a second blowup moron on the run.

 

[zzz_pt]

I just re read this article by Noam Chomsky, I find it very relevant still. It was written on January 2015 after Charlie Hebdo's attack. It is very confronting but it makes a very valid point, speaks about the West's double standards, "Us and Them".


Chomsky: Paris attacks show hypocrisy of West’s outrage


Now to be honest, I am an atheist and when I hear tragic stories like these recent attacks I get outraged and I quickly blame religions to a degree for fueling this. Thankfully that only lasts a couple of seconds and I realize how stupid it is to think that. I see already in this thread how it went from pointing the finger at Islam to Refugees for these actions.

Going back to the article this paragraph stood out for me:

I agree with NC on a lot of things but he's over simplifying the issue in my opinion. He basically puts all the blame in the US and European allies and, as several critics of him said, almost turns out an apologist for the people who hold very dangerous religious ideas / ideologies.

In my opinion, ISIS is not a result of the Iraqi war. Is not something who came out of the blue because the US invaded Iraq. It has much deeper roots who can be traced back to the 18th century. It was just something waiting to be "re-activated". I think something like ISIS would happen anyway sooner or later. It's a very complicated issue and, of course, western countries played a role in the development of the problems since the beginning of the 20th century. There are several groups like this (even in north western China) who have been popping up and getting funds since the 80s and 90s. These groups are just waiting for a crisis to gain power and territory.

I've read this article a while back and I don't know if it was already shared or posted in this thread, but I find it very interesting and a quite good and simple (not simplistic) to get an idea of what lies under islamist terrorism.

Wahhabi and Salafi sects (sunni) of islam are deeply connected to groups like ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Al-Shabbab, Al-Nusra, Boko Haram, Turkistan Islamic Party, ETC). And people from these sects are not just a few thousands. Are millions.

We (the west) should start to invest seriously in green energies and leave the oil dependency. This is a central problem in our relation to Saudi Arabia and other Persian gulf countries who've been growing and getting tonnes of money because we want cheap oil. This wouldn't be a problem if they then didn't transfer billions to support terrorist groups that have a religious connection with them. 15 of the 19 terrorists from 9/11 went to the same mosque in Saudi Arabia. In Kuwait they even had TV adverts to donate money for terrorist groups... I've seen them a while back in a documentary on youtube I think.

In short, ISIS is a serious problem, yes. But I think bombs won't eliminate the problem. They have millions of supporters inside countries that are US allies. Saudi Arabia has a major role in all of this. I saw an article this week about another bunch of weapons the US was sending to SA soon worth 1.2 b (not sure about the number). This is ludicrous. We know SA is backing up ISIS and a lot of saudis sympathize with their cause and believes. How on earth are we allies of a country where people like us would be beheaded in public? That's not only stupid but immoral. We need to demand more from ourselves and our politicians.

ps: on a side note, I'd bet the kurdish people don't agree with Noam Chomsky. They were victims of a genocide for decades and are (as isralis) the most reasonable people in the middle east. If anything, the liberation (not yet complete) of the kurds was something good in the midst of all the deaths in Iraq. But this is a completely different topic.

 

[doblocruiser]

Let's take a moment.

Yes, this is a tragic event that's taken place and I more than understand the strong feelings it has brought about as a result, however, that does not permit nor is it grounds for posting obscene images that blatantly go against the AUP. It's still obscene and it is disrespectful.

From this point on, and this is a friendly reminder, do not post these kinds of images, videos, or articles again because it will result in automatic warnings, infractions, or bans with the utmost prejudice.

I crossed the line and I apologize for that!

 

[Johnnypenso]

I just re read this article by Noam Chomsky, I find it very relevant still. It was written on January 2015 after Charlie Hebdo's attack. It is very confronting but it makes a very valid point, speaks about the West's double standards, "Us and Them".


Chomsky: Paris attacks show hypocrisy of West’s outrage


Now to be honest, I am an atheist and when I hear tragic stories like these recent attacks I get outraged and I quickly blame religions to a degree for fueling this. Thankfully that only lasts a couple of seconds and I realize how stupid it is to think that. I see already in this thread how it went from pointing the finger at Islam to Refugees for these actions.

Going back to the article this paragraph stood out for me:

I confess I didn't read the article, but if he's equating a lone wingnut vs. worldwide organized movement involving hundreds of thousands or potentially millions of people, it's not worth reading IMO.

 

[twitcher]

Got to argue with that stat. According to Police statistics, if you throw out just four cities (using 2015 data as of August) in the entire United States, Baltimore with 215 murders (a 56% increase from August of 2014), Chicago with 294 Murders (a 20% increase), New York City with 208 murders (9%), and Philadelphia with 171 murders (4%), we would actually have one of the lower homicide rates per 100,000 in the world. The common denominator in those four cities is that they have some form of "May Permit" form of Gun control when carrying a weapon in those cities. Just so we're clear, a May Permit adds another layer to the process of procuring a gun in any city that has one (another city that should be mentioned in this conversation, Washington DC, also has a May Permit system after the US Supreme Court struck down their Gun Control law a few years back.) Meaning that in addition to your standard background checks, you have to get final approval from your city's Chief of Police before even allowed to buy a gun.

I can't argue whether your stats are correct or not, but I don't believe the gun laws in those particular cities are the major contributing factors.

Baltimore, Chicago, New York, and Philidelphia have a lot more in common that their gun laws. Put LA in the mix because it is very close behind. Parts of Florida too.

First off, they all suffer from extremely high poverty rates in their poorest communities.

These poor communities are mostly comprised of a visible minority who has been the target of social engineering practices for generations.

The drug trade and subsequent violent gang culture which accompanied it tore the communities apart, and led to a large percentage of mature males (ie fathers and role models) to wind up dead or in jail.

The result is you have communities where young men grow up without guidance, are marginalized by society, and are therefore more prone to being radaclized.

Now, and this is an educated guess on my part, i highly, highly doubt that anywhere close to the majority of those violent gun crimes are committed with registered weapons. Last time I checked, bloods, crips, and GDs didn't pay much attention to local gun laws. Put simply, you don't kill someone with a registered gun.

Find someone who actually lives in the violent areas of those cities, and ask them why they think there is so much gun violence. I find it highly likely that you'll get an answer along the lines of "there are so many gun crimes because there are so many guns."

There are children, children, under the age of 15 who have easy access to guns, and who carry them on a regular basis.

I know some will dismiss this, but according to this interview with Chicago Drill Rapper "Lil' Herb", anyone in Chicago can buy a gun from a crackhead for $20...and a nice one at that.

Relevent bits in the first 5-6 minutes.

So I'm sorry, I can't agree that gun laws in those cities are the major contributing factor to their murder rates. Disenfranchised, marginalized, young men who grow up without prositive role models, and who grow up without a sense of community are the common denominators in those cities, and I think you'll find that its a common denominator in the areas where ISIS sympathizers and participants are coming from.

 

[Milouse]

I crossed the line and I apologize for that!

What? You mean your Le Pen propaganda used to be worst than the one i've just read, in your previous unedited message? Oh...

 

[doblocruiser]

What? You mean your Le Pen propaganda used to be worst than the one i've just read, in your previous unedited message? Oh...

I posted a picture of the attack in Paris which was not in line with the rules at GTP. So for that my apology.

 

[Denur]

Father comforts his little boy.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I see this is a rhetorical question, because to you only the latter will probably make sense. but I'd like to answer it anyway. I hope you realize that our European culture is very different from yours. We(*) have different mindsets, different values, a different take on what freedom is. To us freedom does not mean that everyone is allowed to carry a gun at all times. To us freedom means to live in a society where there is no need for such a thing. A society where the biggest danger we face in our daily lives, is to cross the street. But we do expect from our governments that they do their utmost best to protect us from harm, with the limited resources we grant them as voters and taxpayer. And we accept that that is not enough to protect us from all attacks. To us a society where everyone walks around with a gun, would feel like a prison. We would not feel free.

(*) Of course not all Europeans share these sentiments.

Maybe I should move to Europe. You guys "get it".

 

[Touring Mars]

I think one reason why there is so much disagreement on things like gun control/gun laws is that it is simply not possible to make direct comparisons between different countries... I think the UK has a very sensible attitude to gun ownership/trade etc., and our current laws, while no guarantee of safety, do make sense and contribute largely to the fact that we have 70 times fewer gun-related homicides than in the US, a country that is in many ways very similar to the UK (i.e. in terms of our basic values etc.). But imposing controls like those used in the UK in a country already awash with firearms (like the US) is pretty pointless - and advocating going gun-free in the US is a different matter entirely to advocating such a thing in Scotland - it's a bad idea and pointless to carry a gun here, but I can see why it makes more sense in the USA... that said, the price the US pays for being awash with guns is a gun homicide rate 70 times greater than the UK, and far higher than other comparable developed countries.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Maybe I should move to Europe. You guys "get it".

Come for the lack of gun crime, stay for the beer

 

[FoRiZon]

Come for the lack of gun crime, stay for the beer

Or in case of United Kingdom, cup of tea.

 

[Dennisch]

German media are claiming that at the stadium in Hannover, where the friendly between Germany and the Netherlands has been cancelled, there is a van/ambulance filled with explosives found.

 

[MatskiMonk]

German media are claiming that at the stadium in Hannover, where the friendly between Germany and the Netherlands has been cancelled, there is a van/ambulance filled with explosives found.

BBC News Live reporting a second bomb threat in Hannover, not on the website yet though.

edit:
A second venue in Hanover - a music arena - has now been evacuated by police. The 14,000 TUI Arena was due to host a concert by the band The Söhne Mannheims.

 

[Nico_Ble99]

I'm watching a breaking news coverage on N24 now. At first there was a trolley found, it seemed harmless and about an hour after the found there were concrete hints at a bomb attack. The thing with the ambulance was mentioned aswell.

 

[Dennisch]

BBC News Live reporting a second bomb threat in Hannover, not on the website yet though.

edit:
A second venue in Hanover - a music arena - has now been evacuated by police. The 14,000 TUI Arena was due to host a concert by the band The Söhne Mannheims.

The police are now investigating 2 emergency vehicles for explosives.

Edit.

Train station is now also being evacuated after finding a suspicious package.

 

[x3ra]

I see this is a rhetorical question, because to you only the latter will probably make sense. but I'd like to answer it anyway. I hope you realize that our European culture is very different from yours. We(*) have different mindsets, different values, a different take on what freedom is. To us freedom does not mean that everyone is allowed to carry a gun at all times. To us freedom means to live in a society where there is no need for such a thing. A society where the biggest danger we face in our daily lives, is to cross the street. But we do expect from our governments that they do their utmost best to protect us from harm, with the limited resources we grant them as voters and taxpayer. And we accept that that is not enough to protect us from all attacks. To us a society where everyone walks around with a gun, would feel like a prison. We would not feel free.

(*) Of course not all Europeans share these sentiments.

I agree with your version of 'freedom' and feel the same. Unfortunately, we do not live in the same place that we lived in pre-911. What we expect from our governments is subjective, what you expect may be different to what I expect. When I was 25 I expected the same as you do now. 20 years later I've learned that the system is rigged, and whilst the vast majority of government employees are marvelous human beings, the inner core of the ruling bodies are corrupt to the core. It's gonna take a long time to get it on track. Figuring out who the bad guys are is the only way to sort the problem out. Our 'European' mindset is made up of the mindsets of the individuals populating the area. The spiritual levels of Americans, British, French, Israeli, Palestinian, Chinese, Russian, Syrian, Dutch etc are all very different. The only way to change the mindsets peacefully, is through education and then debate. However, that option make not work quickly enough. Throw some sharks in the tank, has Nemo got enough time to befriend the shark before he gets eaten?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Come for the lack of gun crime, stay for the beer

I can live with that, but...

Or in case of United Kingdom, cup of tea.

...not a fan of tea.

 

[Dotini]

A successful car bombing of a stadium would be a terrible thing.

 

[Grandea GTR]

A successful car bombing of a stadium would be a terrible thing.

I don't think ANYONE that's sane would think that would ever be a good idea.

 

[Dennisch]

Nothing found in Hannover so far.

Paranoia has taken over, so it seems.

 

[TenEightyOne]

• Unfortunately, we do not live in the same place that we lived in pre 911

I disagree, as a non American, despite 7/7.

The focus may be greater but the nature and ideology of the attacks hasn't changed. If anything we Europeans are suffering far fewer attacks than we ever did if one considers the 70, 80s and 90s and all the separatist shenanigans in various parts of Europe.

I think 911 changed America but for Europe, however shocking and tragic the attacks were, business was as usual.

 

[ECGadget]

Nothing found in Hannover so far.

Paranoia has taken over, so it seems.

Whilst the paranoia is not good at all (especially as the media will jump on this as usual), I think for the football stadium perhaps it was a somewhat sensible precaution. At least this close to what happened. It's a fine balance now between security and paranoia, and I think we're very close to the line between them, maybe slightly on the side of paranoia but we can hopefully move past this