Should Atheists Celebrate Christmas?

[Swift]

This is true, provided you know that they are actually celebrating the holiday. For a random stranger to say 'Merry Christmas' to Duke, if Duke has no plans of celebrating Christmas (whether or not he is an atheist... as some people are believers and yet don't celebrate the holiday) then it *is* rude from Duke's point of view. Now if Duke does plan to celebrate the holiday with his family, in the Santamas sense that Danoff has been pushing, then I agree with you that it would be wrong of him to take offense.

Both Duke and Danoff are atheists that celebrate on Christmas day. It's hypocritical for them to get upset when someone wishes them a merry Christmas. Period.

Now, for someone that will do no celebration on Christmas day, just like someone that will do no celebration on July 4th it's still not rude because it's wishing them well. I'm sure there are people that don't like Independence Day. But you can't go around asking everyone if they do or not before you say "Happy Independence Day!" The same holds true here. Getting offended from someone trying to wish you well is just silly.

 

[Keef]

Getting offended from someone trying to wish you well is just silly.

Indeed.

 

[a6m5]

But similarly, it doesn't make sense to complain that Christmas has become overcommercialised when the majority of people celebrating at Christmas are not celebrating the Christian festival of Christmas, but are celebrating the much earlier practice of having a knees-up, getting slashed and giving presents at what is now Christmastime.

I understand the roots, but aren't they all part of the Chrisitian Christmas now? Whether we like it, or not? I've never been to Europe, but that's how it is in the places I've lived.

 

[Famine]

I understand the roots, but aren't they all part of the Chrisitian Christmas now? Whether we like it, or not? I've never been to Europe, but that's how it is in the places I've lived.

Yes - by usurpation. Festivities have occured at this time of year since before Christianity, but, thanks to the influence of the Romans, they were all unified into Christmas. Celebrations around the winter solstice have always been about having a damn good time, and only recently for the birthday of some dude - so in reality it ought to be the people buying presents, getting hammered and photocopying their arses who should be complaining about the Christianisation of the festivities, and not Christians complaining about the commercialisation of Christmas.


The relevance of how "big" the fesitval is is this: If Christmas and Easter were, for argument's sakes, as important as each other in the Christian calendar, the level of celebration should be equal. Christmas, as a time of festivities, by far outweighs Easter because it is not a uniquely Christian celebration - or rather the title is, but the notion of celebrating then isn't.

 

[a6m5]

Christmas, as a time of festivities, by far outweighs Easter because it is not a uniquely Christian celebration - or rather the title is, but the notion of celebrating then isn't.

Action speak louder than words, I guess.

 

[Danoff]

Both Duke and Danoff are atheists that celebrate on Christmas day. It's hypocritical for them to get upset when someone wishes them a merry Christmas. Period.

I agree, I celebrate secular Christmas, which is why I often say "Merry Christmas" to others. Since it can be secular, they should have no problems with it.

Saying happy Ash Wednesday or Good Friday isn't so innocent.

 

[Swift]

I agree, I celebrate secular Christmas, which is why I often say "Merry Christmas" to others. Since it can be secular, they should have no problems with it.

Woohoo! Another agreement by Danoff and Swift on GTP! Can you believe it?

 

[Danoff]

Woohoo! Another agreement by Danoff and Swift on GTP! Can you believe it?

What about the part you didn't quote?

 

[Swift]

What about the part you didn't quote?

Oh...I'm not worried about that part...

But honestly, I've never had anyone ever wish me a happy ash wednesday or good friday

 

[Danoff]

Does it bother you at all to know that there are folks like me out there who interpret "Merry Christmas" secularly when folks like you say it?

 

[Swift]

Does it bother you at all to know that there are folks like me out there who interpret "Merry Christmas" secularly when folks like you say it?

you just gotta keep that ball rolling don't you.

Nope! Not in the slightest. Of course I would like for you to think of it as a day to remember and celebrate christ's birth. But if not then that's on you. Just don't get mad when I say it.

 

[Touring Mars]

As a (mildly) amusing aside, some idiot in the bar last night thought it would be a good laugh to put on a Christmas CD - bad enough that it was September 19th, but it wasn't even the original artists. It was like a shoe-shop muzak compilation of 'Christmas Hits', starting off with "I Wish It Could Be Christmas Everyday" presumably for ironic effect...

...also, regarding 'personal beliefs' and Christmas Day, I remember clearly the night I found out the truth about Santa Claus - turned out it wasn't my Dad after all, it was my Mum!

 

[Swift]

...also, regarding 'personal beliefs' and Christmas Day, I remember clearly the night I found out the truth about Santa Claus - turned out it wasn't my Dad after all, it was my Mum!

Wow, she must have had an incredible make-up person.

 

[FoolKiller]

I remember clearly the night I found out the truth about Santa Claus - turned out it wasn't my Dad after all, it was my Mum!

Really! Wow! Can you tell her I want a PS3? It would save me a trip to the mall this year.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I would like to thank Bee for ruining my lovelife. Long story short, I brought up the topic when someone mentioned how many days there were till Xmas, and a rather attractive, slightily religious girl I'd taken a fancy too (and was under the opion was being reciprocated) wasn't too impressed when I said I celebrated it despite not being Christian.

Thank you Lee.

 

[FoolKiller]

a rather attractive, slightily religious girl I'd taken a fancy too (and was under the opion was being reciprocated) wasn't too impressed when I said I celebrated it despite being Christian.

How is that his fault?

I do give you points for going after the untapped resource, despite blaming Bee for your failure.

You know, you could always let her "save" you.

 

[Danoff]

... wasn't too impressed when I said I celebrated it despite being Christian.

...what?

 

[a6m5]

...what?

I'm sure he meant something different, but if you are true Christian, there is nothing in the Bible about celebrating Christmas. Therefore, celebrating Christmas despite being a (true)Christian. <-way overused in this thread, I know.

 

[kennythebomb]

You know, you could always let her "save" you.

That's just wrong man... I know you probably mean it jokingly but oh man totally wrong!

I'm a bit confused by Exige's post, also.

 

[Touring Mars]

I'm guessing there is a missing 'not' in Exige's post somewhere?... i.e. 'despite not being Christian'??

 

[Speedy Samurai]

As I said before, his death and ressurection VALIDATES our faith, but his life is what we base our faith on. For christians anyway.

I don't know if I necessarily agree with this, or agree with it in the context you are stating. You stated that Christmas is it, it's about Christ, and this is true to the extent that the early church decided that it didn't like all the raucous partying happening toward the end of winter and decided to stick Christ's birthday there, despite it not being that day.

But as for his life being what we base our faith on.. 'Faith is the assurance of things not seen' (tis in the bible), but someone's life, like Christ's was, is something you can see. People wrote about him in some books, he did some good things (many people do), he had some strange powers (and/or could perform illusions). But the whole reason for our salvation is through his resurrection. '... and believe that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved'. It doesn't say we have to pay attention to his life (we do because it's the examples he gave for us), we don't have to celebrate his birth (we do because the early church thought it a good idea). We have to believe, have faith, that his resurrection happened. This is what our salvation is based on. Our lives of faith could be based on the lives of saints past; Job, Abraham, Elijah, etc. Christ's life points to him being known to God and performing miracles through him (like the prophets of old), Christ's resurrection points to him being God



I think I tend to talk in circles sometimes...

 

[FoolKiller]

That's just wrong man... I know you probably mean it jokingly but oh man totally wrong!

Well, I didn't mean it sexually, if that is what you think, but it was a joke. I have to admit I have a bit of a hidden agenda in there.

When I was in high school about 25% of my youth group were there because of a guy/girl they were interested in/dating. After a time they actually began to become part of the church and eventually became baptised. Even after the relationship (or hope of one) was over they stayed and became active members, sometimes more so than those who had grown up in the church. Maybe I thought she would wear off on him a bit.

 

[kennythebomb]

Well, I didn't mean it sexually, if that is what you think, but it was a joke. I have to admit I have a bit of a hidden agenda in there.

When I was in high school about 25% of my youth group were there because of a guy/girl they were interested in/dating. After a time they actually began to become part of the church and eventually became baptised. Even after the relationship (or hope of one) was over they stayed and became active members, sometimes more so than those who had grown up in the church. Maybe I thought she would wear off on him a bit.

I didn't think of a sexual connotation. Rather, I'm saying it would be entirely wrong to lead on a girl that she converted you, in order to get in her pants. Not only is it using her; but now she thinks she has helped you with realizing you needed eternal salvation, and when she finds out that you were insincere she'd be emotionally distraught.

I'm not saying you would do that or even advocate it... but if I knew someone who did I'd completely lose respect for them.

Funny thing is I am interested in a girl in my 'youth group' at this new church I've been going to. I ain't hiding my intentions though... everyone in the church can see I'm shooting for her. She isn't my reason for attending though.. just an added bonus if anything works out.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Sorry for the confussion people. Edited.

 

[Danoff]

Funny thing is I am interested in a girl in my 'youth group' at this new church I've been going to. I ain't hiding my intentions though... everyone in the church can see I'm shooting for her. She isn't my reason for attending though.. just an added bonus if anything works out.

Church is a good place to meet girls. I (an Atheist) met one of my ex-girlfriends (also an Atheist) at church. Overall I'd say church is good for one thing at least (getting horny people together).

Hopefully someone will count how many times the above is ironic.

 

[kennythebomb]

Church is a good place to meet girls. I (an Atheist) met one of my ex-girlfriends (also an Atheist) at church. Overall I'd say church is good for one thing at least (getting horny people together).

Hopefully someone will count how many times the above is ironic.

Certainly a better place than a bar, I'd hope.

Although I wouldn't count out going to a bar.

Just that I'd expect a higher caliber of woman at a church.... one with at least some sense of morals and loyalty (one can only hope....)

One thing I learned in the last year that even the goody-goody church girl who spends lots of time at church and is very strong in God and deeply spiritual still has the same sexual drive and desires... it just takes more work to let her let go.

 

[Swift]

Church is a good place to meet girls. I (an Atheist) met one of my ex-girlfriends (also an Atheist) at church. Overall I'd say church is good for one thing at least (getting horny people together).

Hopefully someone will count how many times the above is ironic.

Or you could actually meet your spouse at church. As I did.

 

[stumpydino]

christmas, isnt promoted as a religious holiday, its all about spending money and that fat red false icon the kids adore so much, because parents these days dont like to accept responsibility to show care and generosity towards their children, if anything its just a big commercial holiday. people join in despite beliefs because nowadays it doesnt involve anything religious

 

[Danoff]

christmas, isnt promoted as a religious holiday, its all about spending money and that fat red false icon the kids adore so much, because parents these days dont like to accept responsibility to show care and generosity towards their children, if anything its just a big commercial holiday. people join in despite beliefs because nowadays it doesnt involve anything religious

While I agree that Christmas is largely secular, I don't agree that the secular celebration of Christmas is somehow bad.

Parents who give gifts to their children aren't puppets of corporations, or irresponsible with their generosity. They're doing a number of things.

1) They're setting aside a particular day for gift-giving so that they can point to it as a reward for being good and waiting to get toys.
2) They're redirecting the source of the gifts to an external Santa because Santa can't be begged year round for toys. If children knew the truth, they'd try to make Christmas come many times a year.
3) Redirecting the gifting to Santa is part of the magic of childhood. It's fun to use your imagination and think about wild possibilities when you're a child. It's good for children to have those early years to enjoy that world.
4) Kids are cute when they get excited.
5) Adults exchange gifts as a way to maintain relationships and stay close to family.

 

[Condraz23]

I'm unreligious but I usually give and recieve gifts at the end of the year.

Please don't misinterpret me. I'm not an athiest or anything, just scientifically-minded and lacking a religion to worship.