Ooooh, boy, was this great! I deliberately pulled the pin out of this grenade, then went to visit America's capital for two days. It was fun to find this thread at the top of the page when I got back.
Youth_cycler and Stealth Viper, I commend you both on an excellent job in defending both Rationalism and the Constitution as written. Religious people (specifically Christians, but that may or may not be relevant) always seem to fall back on the basic statement of "Well, the original colonists came here for religious freedom, and the Founding Fathers were all Christian, so this country was founded on Christian principles." They are dead wrong: America was founded upon Enlightenment principles, which are based entirely in rational, objective logic. There are, in fact, a number of large flaws with the "Christian Fathers" reasoning:
1)
The colonists came here for religious freedom. This is partially true. A specific group of early settlers - the Massachussets Bay Colony - were here to create an utopian community based on their religious beliefs. However, many other equally early colonies, such as Jamestown and Roanoke, Virginia, were founded for purely economic reasons. They were here to exploit a new continent of natural resources, and to expand their populations into new territory.
2)
The Founding Fathers were Christian, and so this country is built on Christian Principles. This is not true, plain and simple. Religious defenders point to the Declaration of Independence, which contains approximately 8 references to "God", as proof of their statement.
They carefully OMIT the fact that the Constitution itself, the actual basis of American government, contains no words about God whatsoever. Here's the Preamble:
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
WE THE PEOPLE...secure the blessings of LIBERTY to OURSELVES. Not 'by God', not 'thanks to God', not 'for God'. In fact, the Founders were even careful enough to include these words:
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.
The First Amendment states:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;. NOTE that these words DO guarantee freedom of personal worship. This is not the issue under debate. However, from a rational, CONSTITUTIONAL point of view, the first portion of the sentence above clearly indicates that "God" should not be in the Pledge of Allegiance (and wasn't, originally); nor should the currency state "In God We Trust", nor should we sing "God Bless America" at government functions. Individuals, including individuals who work for the government, are welcome to believe those statements on a personal basis. However, when adopted by practice of government entities, they are clearly UNconstitutional.
The Constitution was written more than SIX YEARS after the Declaration of Independence. During the intervening years, the Articles of Confederation were our basis of government. Using that experience, the writers of the Contstitution were extremely careful to frame it in such a way as to guarantee a maximum of personal religious freedom (which of course includes freedom FROM religion) while at the same time keeping religion entirely out of the picture as a basis for, or even a part of, the government. I suggest those that consider America to be founded on 'Christian' principles read the actual words written by the Founding Fathers. No mention is made of morality or religion as a function of the document. The Constitution is entirely aimed at maintaining freedom of commerce for the States and personal freedom for the citizens. Nothing more, nothing less.
Here is the text of the US Constitution.
Personal to Gil: Atheism leaves plenty of room for hope, joy, and fulfillment. My hope is that all humans will lose the artificial divisivness created by differing religions. My joy comes from seeing the incredible feats of which man is capable, using his rational mind and his skilled hands. My fulfillment comes from using MY rational mind and MY skilled hands.
Personal to Jordan: I was raised in a morally strong, non-religious household. I feel sure that, if I were trained to obey an external moral system, rather than analyzing and discovering my own INTERNAL morality, that I would not be as good a person as I am today.