SimVibe (SimXperience)

[Mr Latte]

Kinda curious as I have never came across anything regards Buttkickers and why/benefits of reversing the phase control. From memory their manuals do not mention anything about it.

Some tactile units are much different unlike Buttkickers own piston/cylinders. Many are speaker type based, like Clark/Aura/Dayton/i-vibe and I think Quake models use a rotary system.

Maybe ask their tech dept about the phase control.
Never tried it myself, oh and got Dirt 2 on Steam sale, thanks.

 

[LogiForce]

Kinda curious as I have never came across anything regards Buttkickers and why/benefits of reversing the phase control. From memory their manuals do not mention anything about it.

Some tactile units are much different unlike Buttkickers own piston/cylinders. Many are speaker type based, like Clark/Aura/Dayton/i-vibe and I think Quake models use a rotary system.

Maybe ask their tech dept about the phase control.
Never tried it myself, oh and got Dirt 2 on Steam sale, thanks.

Good luck in asking them. I am sure you will get a nice reply.
Hope you'll have a bit of fun with the game too.

Edit:
I just got word from Behringer that my suggestion to add some form of spectrum analyses in either the software or the amp (or both) is based on towards the technical department. Though no results were garanteed.
Let's hope they will stay in touch with me or see an update in the upcoming months.

 

[wajdi1977]

After the triple screen, now it's time to start with the tactile experience and I have to say wooooowwwwwwwwwwwwoowwwwoo.....it adds a much more immersion and it makes you like driving a real car!👍👍

I'm only at the begining! I purchased SimVibe also, but I need time to learn how to use it!
Can I ask you why I have no audio in my headset 5.1/USB any more?
I have no audio, at all when I play rFactor 2!
Thanks

 

[LogiForce]

After the triple screen, now it's time to start with the tactile experience and I have to say wooooowwwwwwwwwwwwoowwwwoo.....it adds a much more immersion and it makes you like driving a real car!👍👍

I'm only at the begining! I purchased SimVibe also, but I need time to learn how to use it!
Can I ask you why I have no audio in my headset 5.1/USB any more?
I have no audio, at all when I play rFactor 2!
Thanks

Maybe you checked your headset's usb soundcard as an output for Simvibe Chassis or Extension modes?
Also check in Windows if the headset is your default soundcard.

I reckon you just use the BKG2 amp with those transducers? Next upgrade would be an iNuke if so in my opinion, cause those amps lack the power to drive those transducers properly and give the right feedback (I wonder how I could make this visible in a video... Hmmm).

 

[wajdi1977]

Maybe you checked your headset's usb soundcard as an output for Simvibe Chassis or Extension modes?
Also check in Windows if the headset is your default soundcard.

I reckon you just use the BKG2 amp with those transducers? Next upgrade would be an iNuke if so in my opinion, cause those amps lack the power to drive those transducers properly and give the right feedback (I wonder how I could make this visible in a video... Hmmm).

Yes I have 2 BKG2 with 2 amplifier! I'm fine with those amplifiers, because here in Israel it is almost impossibile to find a 4ohm amplifier!
You can see that I installed them directly to the seat frame and I can guarantee you that they make their job very well!
Next step will be a 2 daytona to place on the pedals and shifter!
An iNuke300 here in Israel would cost at least 800-1000$

 

[LogiForce]

I can see your point about the iNuke being an unreachable goal. Ouch!
I payed 255 euros for my 1000DSP and a 3000DSP would cost 349 euros here in the Netherlands. They support 2, 4, 8 and 16 Ohm speakers, which is awesome in my opinion. But yeah, too expensive there. I wouldn't have got it for 800-1000 either.

Also I would recommend placing the tactile speakers so that the movement is verticle (if possible), not horizontal like you have now. Actually a slight angle might be best, as per how the suspension is mounted in a car, though it would be difficult to achieve I think.
It is true that it is easier to 'shake' the chair this way, but in a car the shocks from the road come in verticaly as well via the suspension system (which simvibe gets its telemetry from as far as I am aware). So having a vertical thumb would feel more natural than how you have it now.
I tried it too the way you have them now, but I went back to the original buttkicker mount on my rSeat. Though I placed some rubber rings in between the mount and the steel tubing it is mounted on (just some you use in your water taps).

Vibration isolation is key in tactile, as I found out when I went to HoiHman's place.

 

[wajdi1977]

I can see your point about the iNuke being an unreachable goal. Ouch!
I payed 255 euros for my 1000DSP and a 3000DSP would cost 349 euros here in the Netherlands. They support 2, 4, 8 and 16 Ohm speakers, which is awesome in my opinion. But yeah, too expensive there. I wouldn't have got it for 800-1000 either.

Also I would recommend placing the tactile speakers so that the movement is verticle (if possible), not horizontal like you have now. Actually a slight angle might be best, as per how the suspension is mounted in a car, though it would be difficult to achieve I think.
It is true that it is easier to 'shake' the chair this way, but in a car the shocks from the road come in verticaly as well via the suspension system (which simvibe gets its telemetry from as far as I am aware). So having a vertical thumb would feel more natural than how you have it now.
I tried it too the way you have them now, but I went back to the original buttkicker mount on my rSeat. Though I placed some rubber rings in between the mount and the steel tubing it is mounted on (just some you use in your water taps).

Vibration isolation is key in tactile, as I found out when I went to HoiHman's place.

Ok, great! yes I was thinking about what are you saying about having it orizzontal, maybe, would be more natural!
This isnt a defintive setup for me and I will make a lot of tests to achieve a better tactile/vib experience!
I will try to put both behind me, like this, but orizontal!
What do you think?

 

[LogiForce]

Ok, great! yes I was thinking about what are you saying about having it orizzontal, maybe, would be more natural!
This isnt a defintive setup for me and I will make a lot of tests to achieve a better tactile/vib experience!
I will try to put both behind me, like this, but orizontal!
What do you think?

I think this would be good, but...
I do not know when you would want to get those Daytona tactile speakers?
If that's still far away, I'd suggest moving one buttkicker in the middle under your seat (if possible) and one in the middle under your pedal plate.

Than in Simvibe i'd use Chassis Mode with the 'Front Left and Right' channels both hooked into the front pedal mounted Buttkicker's amp. And the 'Rear Left and Right' channels into the rear seat mounted Buttkicker's amp.
Also... Yes, it is safe to plug in both left and right RCA plugs into the back of your BKA-130c amps, even through the red one says "Output". The connection is simply 'bridged' (as it is called), so what the both left and right channels just get blended together.

So here's an image of what I mean. After all, a picture often says more than a thousand words.

Good Luck!

 

[wajdi1977]

That's a great idea, but I will get the Daytona speaker very soon and if you click in my signature you will see that my cockpit in the fronte(where I have the pedals) is a close space and it's is impossibile to install the BKG there!

 

[wajdi1977]

That's such a great idea, but I will get the Daytona speakers very soon and if you click in my signature you will see that my cockpit in the fronte(where I have the pedals) is a close space and it's is impossibile to place the BKG there!

Can you post some image of your cockpit, please?

and what if I place a wood frame below my seat ( between the two aluminium profiles), could this improve the vibration isolation?

 

[LogiForce]

Here is a link to the topic of my rig, though I need to update the OP. lol
Just go to the last page.

Rig: http://www.simology.co/forum/Custom-Setups/3082-logiforce-s-nothing-special-setup


Wood is hard, so it would not isolate. Though you could mount tactile speakers on it and a USB hub or whatever.
Plus you could mount rubber feet between the chair and the wooden frame and the frame and the floor.
This way you have double isolation, which strangely enough seems to help.

Buttkicker sells these feet, but also other companies like the following. I am sure you will be able to find something like it.

Rubber Feet: http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/304443/Rubber-feet-8-pack


Edit: I see now why you say that placing the BKG2 there will be an issue. Only being able to mount it again in the wrong position basically. A BK mini LFE would've mounted perfectly on the back of it though.

 

[wajdi1977]

Great mate!
Can I make a more 2 question?( sorry but it first experience with this tactile thing so I need help!).
There are 2 buttons in the front of the BKG2 amplifier(High Cutoff Frequency and Low filter Cutoff), should I press them?
And what is the ideal frequency for a sim-game, 40?,50?, 110? or 160?

 

[fatkrakr]

Great mate!
Can I make a more 2 question?( sorry but it first experience with this tactile thing so I need help!).
There are 2 buttons in the front of the BKG2 amplifier(High Cutoff Frequency and Low filter Cutoff), should I press them?
And what is the ideal frequency for a sim-game, 40?,50?, 110? or 160?

I dont think them settings do anything with simvibe. Those settings are to filter out the highs that come with using the BK2 with sound. Im pretty sure simvibe is only sending signals youll want to keep. I have turned them off and the knob turned all the way up. As I said though I dont think it matters.

 

[LogiForce]

Great mate!
Can I make a more 2 question?( sorry but it first experience with this tactile thing so I need help!).
There are 2 buttons in the front of the BKG2 amplifier(High Cutoff Frequency and Low filter Cutoff), should I press them?
And what is the ideal frequency for a sim-game, 40?,50?, 110? or 160?

For Simvibe it is not really needed, but will have an effect of course.
So I would recommend just starting your favorite game and push buttons and turn dials. Just to learn what they do and what the effect is for future reference. Learning stuff isn't a bad thing.

Also in Simvibe you can change the frequency ranges the effects operate in to some extend. So learning what those dials do will give you an idea which type of vibrations are coming from what frequency range exactly.

 

[fatkrakr]

Just an FYI for anyone thinking of getting simvibe. You dont have to have 2 soundcards to run the software. If you can use the digital out for your sound than simvibe will run on a single soundcard. Could save some the price of a second card.

 

[wajdi1977]

Today after 30min of rfactor2 saddenly one of the 2 BKG2 has stopped to vibrate! I checked it and it was overheated ! I turned it off and when it has cooled it restarted to vibrate again!
What the hell!!!!!!!!!
I know that the overheating was the main issues of the old version....
Anyone of you had/has this issues?!
Maybe, because I have it mounted vertically could cause this overheating thing?!

 

[LogiForce]

Today after 30min of rfactor2 saddenly one of the 2 BKG2 has stopped to vibrate! I checked it and it was overheated ! I turned it off and when it has cooled it restarted to vibrate again!
What the hell!!!!!!!!!
I know that the overheating was the main issues of the old version....
Anyone of you had/has this issues?!
Maybe, because I have it mounted vertically could cause this overheating thing?!

Like I said, the amps are too weak.

Just look at the specs on their site.

http://www.thebuttkicker.com/gamer2.php

Product Specifications
Package Dimensions: 15” L x 11 ” W x 15" H
Weight: 12 lbs.
Warranty: 1 year limited warranty

Power Amplifier BKA-130-C
Dimensions: 9.5" L x 7.5" W x 2.76 "H
Weight: 7 lbs.
Power Output: 90 watts @ 2 ohms
Frequency Response: 10-300Hz

ButtKicker® Gamer transducer
Dimensions: 6.125" W x 4.875" L x 4.375" H
Frequency Response: 5-200 Hz
Weight: 4.5 lbs. / 2 kgs.
Piston Weight 6 oz.
Nominal Impedance: 2 Ohm
Power Handling: 75 watt min. / 400 watt max.

So you have an amp of ONLY 90 watts at 2 ohms. Than you have a transducer that needs 75 watts at minimum to start moving, and can go up to 400 watts in total.
So what you have to do is set the amp so it almost clips to get a good vibe going.

What is clipping? Let me consult wikipedia for you for a quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)

Clipping is a form of waveform distortion that occurs when an amplifier is overdriven and attempts to deliver an output voltage or current beyond its maximum capability. Driving an amplifier into clipping may cause it to output power in excess of its published ratings.

When an amplifier is pushed to create a signal with more power than its power supply can produce, it will amplify the signal only up to its maximum capacity, at which point the signal can be amplified no further. As the signal simply "cuts" or "clips" at the maximum capacity of the amplifier, the signal is said to be "clipping". The extra signal which is beyond the capability of the amplifier is simply cut off, resulting in a sine wave becoming a distorted square-wave-type waveform.

Amplifiers have voltage, current and thermal limits. Clipping may occur due to limitations in the power supply or the output stage. Some amplifiers are able to deliver peak power without clipping for short durations before energy stored in the power supply is depleted or the amplifier begins to overheat.

So you have to drive the amplifier beyond the 90 watts output, to get a good vibe. Which is the reason it overheats since you try to push more voltage through the amplifier components than it can handle.
Kinda like overclocking a CPU, when an Intel CPU gets too hot it either slows down or powers the PC down.

So the question is, did you push the amp so far that the red LED that says "clip" starts lighting up?


Edit:
A video explaining clipping and why it is bad.

 

[wajdi1977]

I listened to your advice and installed the BKG2 orizontly and I must say that now it is much better!
I was thinking to place them behind the seat, but I would have lost a lot of effect and vibration, so I kept it attached to the seat frame!
I used a L profile, see screenshots:

 

[LogiForce]

I listened to your advice and installed the BKG2 orizontly and I must say that now it is much better!
I was thinking to place them behind the seat, but I would have lost a lot of effect and vibration, so I kept it attached to the seat frame!
I used a L profile, see screenshots:

Awesome to hear.

Now you gave me an idea as well for the near future.
Never thought about using L profiles. They might give me the mounting surface I desire.

 

[wajdi1977]

Any idea how to turn down the grass effect? it's exaggerate, to my opinion!
Can you share your tuning setting also?!
thanks

 

[LogiForce]

Any idea how to turn down the grass effect? it's exaggerate, to my opinion!
Can you share your tuning setting also?!
thanks

I only use the standard profiles provided. Feels fine here, but it didn't with the old amp either. So for tips...

You could try adding a tone smoothing filter with a setting in between 10 and 20.
Also I believe you could set a maximum volume for the suspension effects, which might help limiting the loud sounds/vibrations when going off-road.
Never really got into adjusting all the stuff though.

 

[wajdi1977]

I only use the standard profiles provided. Feels fine here, but it didn't with the old amp either. So for tips...

You could try adding a tone smoothing filter with a setting in between 10 and 20.
Also I believe you could set a maximum volume for the suspension effects, which might help limiting the loud sounds/vibrations when going off-road.
Never really got into adjusting all the stuff though.

Thanks mate!
I spent a lot of time trying ti find the best setup to work properly with rfactor 2 ! I started with proving only one effect at time and make a 1-2 laps with rfactor2! I did this to try to understand/feel the various effects that SimVibe offers, one at time without mixing! and after that, I tried to mix 2 effects at time, then 3effects...!
After a lot of experiment, I came to the idea that mixing many effects, at the same time, ruins the good outcomes of this good software! having 8-12 effects at one time disperses the details of each effect! it like when you throw a stone in waterhole, if you throw one stone, you can see, clearly, the wave caused by that stone! 2 stones, you will still able to see the 2 waves caused by those 2 stones! 3 stones, you still able to see the 3 waves caused by those 3 stones, but you will have difficulty to distinguish between them, because the waves begin to intermix with each other! more stone you will throw in that waterhole, more the overall effect will be disturbed and distorted! ! too many effects means entropy and entropy means caus!
So, I think that the best solution, in my opinion, is to use 4 effects or 5!
For my tasts and with rfactor 2 I decided to use
1-Engine
2-Gear change
3-bumps
4-Road textures
and for me this is the best combination!

 

[LogiForce]

Indeed it is as you say. That is why everyone wants more and more tactile basically.
The more transducer you have, the more easily you can assign effects specifically to certain 'zones' and have the vibrations naturally flow into each other in your rig.
Though this is only possible if you have a rig out of one piece. Or when everything is connected at least, so the vibes flow from one part into another part of the rig (like how everything on a car is connected).

 

[wajdi1977]

Are these good for the isolation ?!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Exhaust-R...514&pid=100011&prg=1005&rk=2&sd=221215154088&

 

[wajdi1977]

Hi guy's!
I really love SimVibe specially with rfactor 2, it's perfect!( Hi Logi, you were right, the default setup is the best !), but some times it crashes, specially online and that sucks, because when it crashes in the middle of the race, it makes you lose concentration and without SimVibe you also drive a bit slower!
Does that happen to you also? does it crash with you, specially during the online sessions?
I have another issues, when I launch the Sim-Commander, the software doesn't recognise immediatly
the audio-card that I had assigned to sim-vibe (C-media pci audio device5.1)! I have to launch the software several times, some times it takes 10-15 min' to make the Sim-commander recognise the audio-card!
Please, help!
Thanks!

 

[LogiForce]

I really don't know much about isolators. HoiHman said exhaust rubbers are good isolators though, but I think you are better of asking him or someone else I guess.

I never had my Simvibe crash on me, so I can't help you with that. Maybe someone else can help you who had a similar experience.

Oh and I never said the default was the best, just said that it was what I was currently using.

 

[Michelcleo]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111031929033?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I use these, well not them but the dimensions are exactly the same as the ones a mate brought back from work for me, i just drillered a hle in them and have a thick bolt that fits in the hole from a few bits my mate got me to isolate, great mate !!!!

Probly been using them for around 3 or 4 weeks, there job done and cheap allthough mine was free.

They make it extremely hard to move the cockpit, all they need is alittle dust from the floor and mne skds over my wood flooring now very easily, can wrap cloth around the isolators aswell and this helps the cockpit to move freely.

 

[wajdi1977]

Sorry, but I want to post my issues with SimVibe again! maybe someone can help me!!!

Hi guys, I was running SimVibe with rfactor 2 from 2-3 weeks and I have to say that it's awesome software, but I have one big issues with it:
when I launch the Sim-Commander, the software doesn't recognise immediatly the audio-card that I had assigned to sim-vibe (C-media PCI audio device 5.1)! I have to launch the software several times, some times it takes 3-5 min' to make the Sim-commander recognise the audio-card!
Some times, mostly when I play online, it crashes and freezes rfactor 2 !
This simvibe crash issues has increased a lot after the last build 218! it freezes after 2-3 minutes I log online and it stops to work!
I have tried several times to disinstall simvibe and reinstall it, but this hasn't resolved anything!
I have contacted SimXperience and they told me to update the audio card driver, but I had already updated !
Now, I want to ask you if someone else here has this types of issues with simvibe or I'm the only one to have this issues!
Thanks

 

[coopersam]

It depends on the amplifier but yes it is a very easy and cheap way of powering multiple tactile from one unit.

Ideally a second hand bargin of a decent quality amplifier from the mid 00's should have all you need. Back then good amplifiers typically came with:

• 100w + per channel @ 4 ohm support (rare these days on mid priced units)
• 5.1 - 7.1 Multichannel inputs (very rare these days)

.

Hi, apologies for bringing up this old thread, but I am just getting interested in Simvibe and need some clarification if possible.

I am trying to find out if an AV amp as suggested by Mr Latte (Sony 1200 / 2400es, Denon 3802 etc) would be a reasonable low cost option to run 4 x Buttkicker Mini LFE SE and 1 x Buttlicker Gamer ?

I am a novice with this stuff sorry. I understand that an amp capable of at least 100w @ 4ohms is needed (which the above ones look to do) but I am not sue if the frequency response range would be adequate as the Mini LFE SE is rated for 10Hz - 250Hz. Most AV amps seem to start at 20Hz, does this mean I would miss out on some low end detail in the feedback?

Also the Gamer2 is rated at 70w min 400w max at 2 ohms, so if I understand correctly a 100w 4 ohm amp channel would be resisted to 50w at 2 ohm, so maybe not suitable?

The other option would be a eMotiva UPA-500, but to get one imported to the UK is quite a cost, but it is a recommended amp to use for the Min LFE SEs and has a 10 Hz to 70 kHz freq range.

Thanks for any help !

 

[LogiForce]

If the amp is not rated for 2 ohm playback, than the chance is high the cooling of the components is not sufficient enough. Thus you'd risk damaging/blowing up your amp.

Also you need an amp that can deliver at the very least 10% more power than the maximum wattage of the speaker at its corresponding impedance (ohms).
So personally I would pick a 500 watt amp for that Gamer2.

(Personally I am a big fan of the Behringer iNuke amps with DSP for tactile. They are cheap for a PA amp, but maybe a bit more expensive than a light weight AV amp which is not capable for the task at hand (especially the gamer 2))