SimVibe (SimXperience)

  • Thread starter the_greeze
  • 934 comments
  • 159,440 views
coopersam
I am trying to find out if an AV amp as suggested by Mr Latte (Sony 1200 / 2400es, Denon 3802 etc) would be a reasonable low cost option to run 4 x Buttkicker Mini LFE SE and 1 x Buttlicker Gamer ?
Click to expand...

My advice would be to avoid the Buttlicker Gamer at all costs, unless you're into that kinky kind of thing. :sly: :lol:
 
LOL oooooopppppppsss !!!

Thanks for the reply LogiForce, I will add the iNuke to my list of Amps to investigate. Would I need the DSP function if I am using Simvibe?

I may just leave the ButtKicker Gamer on it's stock amp to begin with to make things easier.

Specs for the mini LFE SE state that when using with Simvibe it will use 150w max, so with this in mind would a 150w per channel @ 4ohm AV amp be good for the LFE SEs?
 
coopersam
LOL oooooopppppppsss !!!

Thanks for the reply LogiForce, I will add the iNuke to my list of Amps to investigate. Would I need the DSP function if I am using Simvibe?

I may just leave the ButtKicker Gamer on it's stock amp to begin with to make things easier.

Specs for the mini LFE SE state that when using with Simvibe it will use 150w max, so with this in mind would a 150w per channel @ 4ohm AV amp be good for the LFE SEs?
Click to expand...

I use the delay of the DSP to create a bigger virtual spacing between the buttkickers equal to the positions of the tyres from the car I drive in the sim.
After all, the positions of the buttkickers on your rig will be closer to you/your seat than the virtual tyres would be if you'd place the rig in the virtual car. Also note that Simvibe reads out info from the virtual tyres/suspension.
So what I do is measure/guess the distance from each Buttkicker to their respective virtual tyres, than dial that in into the delay. If set correctly your brain will be fooled when the correct delay is set between what your eyes see, hands feel through ffb and butt and back feel through vibration.
For example when driving a truck in Baja in Dirt 2, with the delay set correctly you can feel the entire vibrations travel through your rig front to back upon landing after a jump because of the delay. Without it the vibrations would all feel like they fire almost instantly as the vibes reach your butt too quickly. With it they travel front to back longer until the back fires.

In short, it is awesome to use that DSP delay correctly with simvibe. ^_^

The second thing that is a plus is the graphical and dynamic equalizers, so you can tweak the speakers to your liking. As you know from your music experience. Not every speaker is the same, but you can recover/adjust a lot with an EQ.
It is very hard to get set correctly with Simvibe though, as you can not really 'test fire' each effect.

The best feature of the iNuke DSP is that it has a limiter. You can set it as a hard limiter so you don't blow up your speakers when going over say the 400 watt of the Gamer2.

To the question if you would need it... no, you do not need it. However, I think you will be able to benefit from it.
A pro for the iNuke DSP is that each channel (A and B) is driven independently and can thus also be setup independently in the DSP. So driving speakers of 2 and 4 ohm with different wattage ratings together is no issue.


10% of 150 watt is 15 watt. So you need a 165 watt amp or higher.
It's up to you what you wish to do though. Maybe you can first try a spare amp you have about or hook it up to your current amp and see how they behave and if it is up to your satisfaction.
However, having a good quality powerful amp does improve the feel of the vibration effects a whole lot. My Gamer2 came alive when I got rid of the massively underpowered Gamer2 kit amp and hooked it up to the iNuke. It really opened my eyes and I finally started to use tactile after having owned the Gamer2 for half a year.


My personal setup:

Behringer iNuke 1000DSP - Channel A: mini LFE - Channel B: Gamer 2
Rig: rSeat Evo - Front: mini LFE (under the pedal plate) - Rear: Gamer2 (on the dedicated mount)

The only thing I changed is the feet on the rSeat for big rubber feet, so that the vibes don't travel into the floor as much (reducing complaints ;)) but will travel through the rig in a better manner.
If I learned one thing from Henk (HoiHman) is that isolation is key into getting good travel of vibrations.
 
Thanks for the info, the iNuke sounds very good, not cheap though!

I actually have some rubber feet / isolators on order for my rig (Obutto Revloution) so good to hear that is worth doing.

Do you have any thoughts on the Behringer A500 as another option?
 
LogiForce
I use the delay of the DSP to create a bigger virtual spacing between the buttkickers equal to the positions of the tyres from the car I drive in the sim.
After all, the positions of the buttkickers on your rig will be closer to you/your seat than the virtual tyres would be if you'd place the rig in the virtual car. Also note that Simvibe reads out info from the virtual tyres/suspension.
So what I do is measure/guess the distance from each Buttkicker to their respective virtual tyres, than dial that in into the delay. If set correctly your brain will be fooled when the correct delay is set between what your eyes see, hands feel through ffb and butt and back feel through vibration.
For example when driving a truck in Baja in Dirt 2, with the delay set correctly you can feel the entire vibrations travel through your rig front to back upon landing after a jump because of the delay. Without it the vibrations would all feel like they fire almost instantly as the vibes reach your butt too quickly. With it they travel front to back longer until the back fires.

In short, it is awesome to use that DSP delay correctly with simvibe. ^_^

The second thing that is a plus is the graphical and dynamic equalizers, so you can tweak the speakers to your liking. As you know from your music experience. Not every speaker is the same, but you can recover/adjust a lot with an EQ.
It is very hard to get set correctly with Simvibe though, as you can not really 'test fire' each effect.

The best feature of the iNuke DSP is that it has a limiter. You can set it as a hard limiter so you don't blow up your speakers when going over say the 400 watt of the Gamer2.

To the question if you would need it... no, you do not need it. However, I think you will be able to benefit from it.
A pro for the iNuke DSP is that each channel (A and B) is driven independently and can thus also be setup independently in the DSP. So driving speakers of 2 and 4 ohm with different wattage ratings together is no issue.

10% of 150 watt is 15 watt. So you need a 165 watt amp or higher.
It's up to you what you wish to do though. Maybe you can first try a spare amp you have about or hook it up to your current amp and see how they behave and if it is up to your satisfaction.
However, having a good quality powerful amp does improve the feel of the vibration effects a whole lot. My Gamer2 came alive when I got rid of the massively underpowered Gamer2 kit amp and hooked it up to the iNuke. It really opened my eyes and I finally started to use tactile after having owned the Gamer2 for half a year.

My personal setup:

Behringer iNuke 1000DSP - Channel A: mini LFE - Channel B: Gamer 2
Rig: rSeat Evo - Front: mini LFE (under the pedal plate) - Rear: Gamer2 (on the dedicated mount)

The only thing I changed is the feet on the rSeat for big rubber feet, so that the vibes don't travel into the floor as much (reducing complaints ;)) but will travel through the rig in a better manner.
If I learned one thing from Henk (HoiHman) is that isolation is key into getting good travel of vibrations.
Click to expand...

Some very helpful information in here, thanks
 
coopersam
Thanks for the info, the iNuke sounds very good, not cheap though!

I actually have some rubber feet / isolators on order for my rig (Obutto Revloution) so good to hear that is worth doing.

Do you have any thoughts on the Behringer A500 as another option?
Click to expand...

The A500 is a good amp, but it's rated at a minimum of 4 ohm impedance. So it won't be powerful enough to drive the Gamer2.
I had not complaints about it when I was trying out HoiHman's rig though. However, I rather direct you to him by waiting for his reply here or send him a pm on here. He has more experience with that amp and will be able to tell you a bit more about it.


For everyone (and you too coopersam):

I wish you guys to watch the following video.
The video is about "clipping".
Clipping is actually what causes the bottoming out because of the usage of a too weak amplifier.
During the time that it bottoms out and stands still for a bit, it actually quickly heats up the copper coil inside the speaker. If this happens long enough, the coil will heat up so much that it will burn up.
In short this means that due to a too weak amp you will blow up your expensive speakers.
This because you need to drive the amp on or over its limits to drive your speaker, causing the AC current's alternation to happen too slower for that amount of power. Which means you end up with DC and the speaker ending up bottomed out (one way or the other end of the coil).

ps. Also note that bottoming out and the thumb sound it caused was the reason for Simxperience to have the special Simvibe Edition made on which they only seemed to have replaced the foam ends for a soft piece of foam. Which tends to quickly wear and stick out the holes in the end camps of the speakers.
Personally I dislike this edition, as with a good amp you shouldn't have any issues with bottoming out. I bought that mini LFE from HoiHman and it doesn't bottom out for me, and I also tried the Simvibe Edition at his place. I myself did not feel any difference between these two.




Example:
An example why I think the Buttkicker Gamer 2 kit is bad.
I grabbed the following info from the specifications site.

Link: http://www.thebuttkicker.com/gamer2.php

Power Amplifier BKA-130-C
Dimensions: 9.5" L x 7.5" W x 2.76 "H
Weight: 7 lbs.
Power Output: 90 watts @ 2 ohms
Frequency Response: 10-300Hz

ButtKicker® Gamer transducer
Dimensions: 6.125" W x 4.875" L x 4.375" H
Frequency Response: 5-200 Hz
Weight: 4.5 lbs. / 2 kgs.
Piston Weight 6 oz.
Nominal Impedance: 2 Ohm
Power Handling: 75 watt min. / 400 watt max.
Click to expand...

As you all can see, the amplifier in the kit is rated at 90 watts @ 2 ohm.
The minimum power the speaker of the Gamer 2 wants is 75 watts @ 2 ohm.

Now we all have pretty rigid steel/alu rigs. So to get that solid material moving/vibrating you need to get a lot of force going.

Now at 75 watts the amp is already close to its limits, but the speaker only just starts to move. When you sit in your chair it will be hard to even feel anything.
So you push the 'volume +' button a few times and when you finally get something going that you can feel, what happens. The red light starts to just light up, the amp is clipping. Causing damage to your speaker by overheating its coil due to a DC current, but also to the amp as that is (over)heating its components as well due to working at/over the limit (which was a big issue with the original Buttkicker Gamer amp).

And all this will the speaker still can handle a spare 310 watts @ 2 ohm than what the amp can deliver. So the speaker is fine, but those amps are simply not compatible.


Lastly below you find a QA about the "bottoming out"/"knocking"/"banging" of the Gamer in the quick start manual's FAQ section.
As you can see they also warn that you will risk blowing up your equipment if you use it whilst clipping over a longer period of time. Only they used a more round'a'bout wording to not scare off people from a purchase I think.

Link: http://www.thebuttkicker.com/downloads/manuals/BK-GR2_QSG-Outlines-Web.pdf

Q. I hear a knocking or banging noise coming trom the ButtKicker Gamer?
A. That is the internel piston of the ButtKicker Gamer hitting the inside of the housing.
Although this will nat immediately harm the unit, you should turn the volume down (lower) on
the ButtKicker Power Amplifier to avoid this "over driving" of the ButtKicker Gamer.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
LogiForce thank you for taking the time to post that, very useful information indeed!

Although the inuke 1000 DSP features do sound excellent, I have just found I can get the inuke 1000 non-DSP version for a much better price (£160 vs £245 for the DSP) so that is my current favourite, as it has the correct power outputs. Bearing in mind I do need two of them it does cut the cost alot, so I need to think about if the DSP features are worth the extra money.

Still have not decided yet though ...... :)
 
coopersam
LogiForce thank you for taking the time to post that, very useful information indeed!

Although the inuke 1000 DSP features do sound excellent, I have just found I can get the inuke 1000 non-DSP version for a much better price (£160 vs £245 for the DSP) so that is my current favourite, as it has the correct power outputs. Bearing in mind I do need two of them it does cut the cost alot, so I need to think about if the DSP features are worth the extra money.

Still have not decided yet though ...... :)
Click to expand...

Personally I am upgrading slowly as you might have guessed, and what I have now isn't bad at all.
So my suggestion is that instead of going for less quality and get everything in one go, you should consider doing things right from the start and if needed in smaller steps (i.e. one amp and two speakers (1 front, 1 rear).
I don't know if you already own a Gamer2, but else you could consider getting just the amp and 1 speaker first.

What I have got wired up now...
I use Simvibe chassis mode and have 'bonded' the front left and right channels to go into channel A, which is for my single from mini LFE. The same for the rears going into channel B.

So...
Soundcard green output -> 3.5mm stereo jack to stereo RCA cable -> RCA splitter (2 female > 1 male) -> RCA to 6.3mm mono jack -> iNuke Channel A input -> iNuke Channel A output -> (homemade) SpeakON to male mono 6.3mm Jack -> female mono 6.3mm Jack soldered on the end of the mini LFE

Soundcard black output -> 3.5mm stereo jack to stereo RCA cable -> RCA splitter (2 female > 1 male) -> RCA to 6.3mm mono jack -> iNuke Channel B input -> iNuke Channel B output -> (homemade) SpeakON to male mono 6.3mm Jack -> (homemade) female mono 6.3mm Jack to female banana plugs -> original Gamer2 cable -> Gamer2

So as you can see I got a couple of things going.

- When I get my second amp I can remove the RCA splitter and connect either both black (left) or red (right) RCA cables to it. Making one amp for purely either the left or right side of the rig and the other for the other. Or hook up one jack to RCA cable to the amp for the front and the other one for the rear. Where Channel A and B on each amp become left and right respectively.

- The amp need SpeakON connectors, but to keep me from having to grab behind the amp all the time when I need to put my rig away, I used jackplugs on the end of the speakers which I have nicely put away on the rig. There are chassis mount versions to. If you wonder if they are able to take the load of such a powerful amp, jackplugs were used in PA systems for many years to hook up speakers.

- The last thing is that I decided to keep using the original cable of the Gamer2 so I could sell it in its original condition without cut wires. Hence the short female jack to female banana plug 'adapter' cable I made to fit on the original cable.
 
LogiForce
The A500 is a good amp, but it's rated at a minimum of 4 ohm impedance. So it won't be powerful enough to drive the Gamer2.
I had not complaints about it when I was trying out HoiHman's rig though. However, I rather direct you to him by waiting for his reply here or send him a pm on here. He has more experience with that amp and will be able to tell you a bit more about it.


For everyone (and you too coopersam):

I wish you guys to watch the following video.
The video is about "clipping".
Clipping is actually what causes the bottoming out because of the usage of a too weak amplifier.
During the time that it bottoms out and stands still for a bit, it actually quickly heats up the copper coil inside the speaker. If this happens long enough, the coil will heat up so much that it will burn up.
In short this means that due to a too weak amp you will blow up your expensive speakers.
This because you need to drive the amp on or over its limits to drive your speaker, causing the AC current's alternation to happen too slower for that amount of power. Which means you end up with DC and the speaker ending up bottomed out (one way or the other end of the coil).

ps. Also note that bottoming out and the thumb sound it caused was the reason for Simxperience to have the special Simvibe Edition made on which they only seemed to have replaced the foam ends for a soft piece of foam. Which tends to quickly wear and stick out the holes in the end camps of the speakers.
Personally I dislike this edition, as with a good amp you shouldn't have any issues with bottoming out. I bought that mini LFE from HoiHman and it doesn't bottom out for me, and I also tried the Simvibe Edition at his place. I myself did not feel any difference between these two.




Example:
An example why I think the Buttkicker Gamer 2 kit is bad.
I grabbed the following info from the specifications site.

Link: http://www.thebuttkicker.com/gamer2.php



As you all can see, the amplifier in the kit is rated at 90 watts @ 2 ohm.
The minimum power the speaker of the Gamer 2 wants is 75 watts @ 2 ohm.

Now we all have pretty rigid steel/alu rigs. So to get that solid material moving/vibrating you need to get a lot of force going.

Now at 75 watts the amp is already close to its limits, but the speaker only just starts to move. When you sit in your chair it will be hard to even feel anything.
So you push the 'volume +' button a few times and when you finally get something going that you can feel, what happens. The red light starts to just light up, the amp is clipping. Causing damage to your speaker by overheating its coil due to a DC current, but also to the amp as that is (over)heating its components as well due to working at/over the limit (which was a big issue with the original Buttkicker Gamer amp).

And all this will the speaker still can handle a spare 310 watts @ 2 ohm than what the amp can deliver. So the speaker is fine, but those amps are simply not compatible.


Lastly below you find a QA about the "bottoming out"/"knocking"/"banging" of the Gamer in the quick start manual's FAQ section.
As you can see they also warn that you will risk blowing up your equipment if you use it whilst clipping over a longer period of time. Only they used a more round'a'bout wording to not scare off people from a purchase I think.

Link: http://www.thebuttkicker.com/downloads/manuals/BK-GR2_QSG-Outlines-Web.pdf
Click to expand...


Interesting. Every time I see a video with buttkickers, I decide it makes too much noise for me. It's just constant knocking.

How much noise does a properly driven setup make?
 
Paul33993
Interesting. Every time I see a video with buttkickers, I decide it makes too much noise for me. It's just constant knocking.

How much noise does a properly driven setup make?
Click to expand...

I will see if I can make a video during the weekend. It's 1:45 am now as of posting this, so driving the setup to its max might annoy some neighbours, even with isolators in place.

Plus I need to mod the way I mounted them a bit, as I just noticed there is a bit of unwanted vibration going on between the pedalplate and the MDF plate the buttkicker is attached to.

Personally I think the Buttkickers at max volume make as much noise as would a subwoofer when you put it under a big pile of blankets in a soundproof room where you stand outside the door to the said room.
In other words, you can still hear them but they sound very muffled.
The thing is that even if it doesn't have a cone attached to its coil, the design of the device still allows for it to move air. Those air movements are vibrations in the air, which are picked up by our ears as 'sound'.
So even though it's not loud like a speaker or subwoofer, there will always be audio coming from tactile transducers no matter what. Depending on the design of the unit it is more or less audible.

Anyway, I will play around this weekend and see if I can get something on the digital 'tape' for you.
 
Although you are right and the gamer is underpowered compared to its maximum speaker wattage, according to SimVibes website "Because SimVibe is physics based, rather than audio based, the signal provided to the ButtKicker mini LFE transducer is "faster" and more intense than a standard low frequency audio track. With this kind of signal a standard mini LFE can easily reach its' pistons' limit of travel (bottom out) and produce unwanted noise."
Below this they claim that the 250 watt maximum of a BK Mini LFE is reduced to only 150 watts when using the software. So using a reduction of 100 watts as a rough guesstimate, the buttkicker gamer 2 has a maximum of 300 watts. So the G2 amp is actually only 210 watts short of hitting its maximum capability! :sly:
 
lemansfanatic
Although you are right and the gamer is underpowered compared to its maximum speaker wattage, according to SimVibes website "Because SimVibe is physics based, rather than audio based, the signal provided to the ButtKicker mini LFE transducer is "faster" and more intense than a standard low frequency audio track. With this kind of signal a standard mini LFE can easily reach its' pistons' limit of travel (bottom out) and produce unwanted noise."
Below this they claim that the 250 watt maximum of a BK Mini LFE is reduced to only 150 watts when using the software. So using a reduction of 100 watts as a rough guesstimate, the buttkicker gamer 2 has a maximum of 300 watts. So the G2 amp is actually only 210 watts short of hitting its maximum capability! :sly:
Click to expand...

The G2 amp reaches its max at 90 watts RMS. Which means the speaker won't reach its maximum potential, not the amp.

Also what Simvibe claims is that they basically have limited the audio output of Simvibe to 60% of total volume output, since 150 of 250 is 60%.

Technically if the speaker is designed properly (and driven by a suited amp) it should not bottom out at its maximum rated wattage, no matter what you throw at it.

About bottoming out, it's also called "overexcursion" and happens when the speaker is driven beyond its limits (given it is driven properly by a non-clipping amp).
With Buttkickers you get a knocking sound. When a normal subwoofer is experiencing overexcursion the bass sounds become unclear and the sub ends up sounding like its 'farting' sort off (just look on youtube for overexcursion).
This means you will need to either set the gain knob lower on the amp, or if it lacks that lower either the input source's volume (PC) or the volume of your amp.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excursion_(audio)
 
LogiForce
I will see if I can make a video during the weekend. It's 1:45 am now as of posting this, so driving the setup to its max might annoy some neighbours, even with isolators in place.

Plus I need to mod the way I mounted them a bit, as I just noticed there is a bit of unwanted vibration going on between the pedalplate and the MDF plate the buttkicker is attached to.

Personally I think the Buttkickers at max volume make as much noise as would a subwoofer when you put it under a big pile of blankets in a soundproof room where you stand outside the door to the said room.
In other words, you can still hear them but they sound very muffled.
The thing is that even if it doesn't have a cone attached to its coil, the design of the device still allows for it to move air. Those air movements are vibrations in the air, which are picked up by our ears as 'sound'.
So even though it's not loud like a speaker or subwoofer, there will always be audio coming from tactile transducers no matter what. Depending on the design of the unit it is more or less audible.

Anyway, I will play around this weekend and see if I can get something on the digital 'tape' for you.
Click to expand...

Appreciate it.
 
LogiForce
The G2 amp reaches its max at 90 watts RMS. Which means the speaker won't reach its maximum potential, not the amp.

Also what Simvibe claims is that they basically have limited the audio output of Simvibe to 60% of total volume output, since 150 of 250 is 60%.

Technically if the speaker is designed properly (and driven by a suited amp) it should not bottom out at its maximum rated wattage, no matter what you throw at it.

About bottoming out, it's also called "overexcursion" and happens when the speaker is driven beyond its limits (given it is driven properly by a non-clipping amp).
With Buttkickers you get a knocking sound. When a normal subwoofer is experiencing overexcursion the bass sounds become unclear and the sub ends up sounding like its 'farting' sort off (just look on youtube for overexcursion).
This means you will need to either set the gain knob lower on the amp, or if it lacks that lower either the input source's volume (PC) or the volume of your amp.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excursion_(audio)
Click to expand...

Kind of makes me wonder about the quality of construction of the speaker itself. Do you think they designed the G2 transducer with even the slightest thought in mind that people might use more powerful amps capable of delivering the maximum wattage rating they claim the speaker has?
Or simply design it so it can withstand the maximum wattage the G2 amp can produce before clipping and just warn customers about the dangers of reaching those clipping limits.
 
lemansfanatic
Kind of makes me wonder about the quality of construction of the speaker itself. Do you think they designed the G2 transducer with even the slightest thought in mind that people might use more powerful amps capable of delivering the maximum wattage rating they claim the speaker has?
Or simply design it so it can withstand the maximum wattage the G2 amp can produce before clipping and just warn customers about the dangers of reaching those clipping limits.
Click to expand...

Since I reckon they do know what they are doing as professionals in their area, so I doubt it is your second suggestion.
So suggestion one is most likely. Give people a high quality tactile speaker, but at an amp with minimal requirements to keep the cost down and make the threshold lower for people to get started with tactile (to see if they like it).

It stays guesswork though. If you are really interested in this, you could send a mail to them in which you ask them to explain the reason to combine the barely capable amp with the G2 speaker.
 
Alright, as promised I shot some videos.

First up a video of me driving in Dirt 2 at Baja Course 1 (the one with the trucks and jumps). I choose this track because of the rough terrain with jumps (read impacts).

First up is a video with just the Gamer 2 and its original supplied amplifier, the BKA-130-C.
The amp's volume is set so that during normal driving across the dirt the green Signal light barely lights up. However each time you land from a jump or go across a bump it clips (outside of the shot).

Notice the horrible noise it makes!




Now the same course with the Behringer iNUKE 1000DSP.

Here I used the amp at full volume of the speaker using the amp's limiter to limit the maximum output, the volume knobs on the amp are set to their max.
The gain has been reduced to -4.0 as to not clip the signal after it leaves the pre-amp stage and goes through the power amp to be send to the buttkicker.

In this clip both mini-LFE and Gamer 2 are hooked up and in use.

Take again note of the noise or lack of, even when using two buttkickers.
The limit LEDs on the Behringer amp did not light up during this shot due to reduced gain.




For a bit more normal situation on a race track, I shot this will playing Project CARS and driving the Ford Capri around Suzuka.





@Paul33993: I hope this is enough videos for you to make up a more clear image of what sound difference to expect. :)


ps. The app used on my iphone 4 was "Audio Tool" by Performance Audio. It features a decibel meter, microphone feature, Tone Generator and Oscilloscope. I find it quite handy to use once in a while, like in these circumstances.
 
Paul33993
Definitely. That's great. Thanks. Seems like it makes a huge difference.
Click to expand...

Yeah, plus with the original amp the effects seem to be all over the place due to the clipping. Heck, it didn't really feel like effects anymore but just wild vibrations instead.


Oh and with the Gamer2, for who has one, there is standard a little rattle due to a loose c-clip. I fixed this with some "Bungee Cord Technology" of my own. The c-clip sits on the screw shaft of the clamp near the hinge. I fixed the rattling by grabbing an elastic band and wrap it around the shaft and pushing it against the c-clip.
 
When I had my last visit to Latte's I tried his tactile/amp test set up. These amps in my opinion are awesome. The fact that they cut out the unwanted noise is brilliant, after all it's the tactile feel that we want.
 
Carson79
When I had my last visit to Latte's I tried his tactile/amp test set up. These amps in my opinion are awesome. The fact that they cut out the unwanted noise is brilliant, after all it's the tactile feel that we want.
Click to expand...

Which amp are you referring to?
 
Mr Latte
Ideally a second hand bargin of a decent quality amplifier from the mid 00's should have all you need. Back then good amplifiers typically came with:

  • 100w + per channel @ 4 ohm support (rare these days on mid priced units)
  • 5.1 - 7.1 Multichannel inputs (very rare these days)
Click to expand...

Attention: Anyone who is considering getting Simvibe in Chassis mode. Before you waste money on receivers or amps that won't work have a quick read.

Please note that at this time, the quote above is the ONLY place I've seen these two bullet points regarding an appropriate amp for SimVibe. The multichannel input requirement is for SimVibe (do not assume something has multichannel input just because it has lots of inputs on the back and is 5.1 or 7.1.) The @100+W per channel at 4 ohms requirement is for the Buttkicker mini LFEs. If you are using SimVibe with mini LFE's, then of course your amp must fill both criteria. I feel that it is unfortunate that so far this has not been clearly explained or really mentioned anywhere - on the SimVibe site or instructions, in any videos I've watched (e.g. insidesimracing SimVibe setup/review), or other forums I've seen so far.

Personally, I wasted a few hundred dollars learning this lesson the hard way. That was even after seeing the post I'm quoting by Mr. Latte, because I didn't entirely understand what he meant and assumed I'd be okay with an upper mid-level 7.1 amp that had lots of inputs. I was very wrong.

Another Warning for audio noobs like me: Another mistake I made when I started looking for amps was to assume that "receiver" was just a name for a fancier amp that had extra inputs/outputs. Receivers are MUCH easier to find when online shopping. It is not entirely true that a receiver is like a fancy amp, many receivers are not spec'ed nearly as well as plain amps are.... Even though receivers are much easier to find it seems (to me), I would avoid them for this application. An "affordable receiver" (I looked up to about $500 models) are not typically going to adequately meet the required specs without potential to damage the receiver. Unless the specs state @100W per channel at 4 ohms (and you made sure it has multi-channel inputs), the only way you'd know is to call the manufacturer.

Long story short, save yourself a lot of headache and just buy the Buttkicker simvibe package: http://www.buttkickergear.com/BKDA_PACK_4_p/bkda-pack-4.htm

If you already have the buttkicker LFE's, then you can get a really good quality amp that is perfectly spec'ed for the task here (that SimXperience themselves use - I thank Kevin at SimXperience for the suggestion): http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/upa500
 
I think the amplifiers in that "Buttkicker simvibe package" are inadequate for their purpose.

Speaker Specs (Simvibe rating is because they lower volume output of the program by 40%):
50 Watt Minimum
150 Watt Maximum when used with SimVibe which produces a crisper, harder hitting signal than traditional audio
250 Watt Maximum when used with a traditional audio signal
Impediance - 4 Ohms

Amp Specs:
Measured power output: 2 x 75 watts RMS (into 4 ohms @ less than 0.01% THD)

So you only just get the buttkicker speakers going before the amplifier starts to clip. I am seriously starting to wonder about who thinks of these packages at Buttkicker. =/

The recommended amp by Keving at SimXperience also is not powerful enough.

Specs:
Number of Channels: 5
120 watts / channel (4 ohms; all channels driven)

It should be more than double that power output per channel.


I can see your point with Latte's recommendation though. Though he just talked about old receivers (which in the old days basically meant an amp with radio tuner built-in) in general.

Like I said guys, when you look for an amplifier to drive your speakers than make sure of two things.

- The amp is rated to be able to deliver a certain amount of power at the same impedance as stated by the specifications of your speaker. This to avoid blowing up your amp.
- Always make sure that your amp is capable at the very least of delivering 10% more Watt RMS power output per channel/speaker than stated in the specifcations of the speaker you want to drive. This to avoid clipping and blowing up your speaker.
 
Logiforce: What's your opinion on that budget setup people are running over at the iracing forums.

4 X Aura Pro Bass Shakers (50 watts - assuming they're still being manufactured and come back in stock).

This amp with a power supply:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=320-335

Is this just a fatally flawed combo?

I'm most interested in the Aura's because according to statements from Bernie posted here and at iracing, the Aura bass shakers are the quietest.

My cockpit is also homemade and rolls under a desk I built. So it's elevated off the ground with casters (bottom is made of plywood). I've got just enough ground clearance to mount them on the underside of my cockpit. This also has the added benefit of meaning they'll be under the cockpit plywood and just above carpet (concrete floor). With creative sound dampening, I think I can muffle most of the sound waves if I don't run it cranked (which I shouldn't, since I already know FFB reverberates really well based on the FFB of my wheel).
 
I don't have any experience with the Aura bass shakers, so I can't tell you how they perform.
I have to correct you the wattage though. When I look them up on parts express the specs say 100 watt RMS max.

So this means that the chosen amp is to weak at its 100 watts. If you can a 150 watt amp it will be fine.
Also I have to note that it would be handy to have at least some gain control on the amp, so you can set it so you won't blow stuff up or generate unwanted noise,

Gain knob - volume control pre-amp. So kinda like an input volume control.
Volume knob - volume control of the power amp. So controlling the final output.

Having a gain knob means you can adjust the signal before its processed. So with the harsh simvibe signals you can prevent the amp clipping on those spikes. So it would be a bit more useful than a normal volume knob.

On the iNuke DSP I can use the dynamic equalizer to set a threshold to dynamically suppress spikes in specific frequency ranges, or the other way around... amplify certain frequency ranges for say more kerb vibes to come through.
Though I have yet to experiment with this. Adding these iNuke features on top of the wide variety of Simvibe settings makes it almost a bottomless pit of settings to play with. With the down side that you can also endlessly search for that one supreme setup.

But yeah, you need a 150 watt amp for those bass shakers. I could say a 110+ watt amp (remember 10%), but I think its easier to find a 150 watt amp. And its not too powerful for those things.


Edit:
With respect to mounting the speakers and dampening. I actually put a rubber ring that you normally use in your water tap under each screw hole. It's something you could consider as well and is cheap try (bought them for ~2 euros per pack of 5 rings).
 
Last edited:
Paul33993
Good info to have. I just assumed you could limit volume (and prevent spikes) through the simvibe software. Back to looking.
Click to expand...

You can as well, but keeping the amp from clipping when having the volume output of your soundcard at 100% is just to prevent damage. That way you don't have to worry either about the volume damaging anything while you play, after all we need to concentrate for racing the cars not think about needless things.

But yeah, you have a lot of control when it comes to volume and frequencies of effects in Simvibe. Plus there are also limiters to prevent the spiking you can plugin to an effect, as well as something to soften the signal (make it less harsh). Like the impact effect can be really harsh and you can make it more pleasant without ruining it per se.

ps. Just edited my last post with a tip for mounting and damping the speakers.
 

Similar threads

Ak1504
Sim Commander and all SimXperience products are now compatible with Forza Motorsport 7
Replies
0
Views
2K
Ak1504
Ak1504
super_gt
SimXperience AccuForce Pro V2 Racing Wheel Thread
2
Replies
56
Views
32K
Jeka_djonik
Jeka_djonik
Z
Simvibe. Help!!
Replies
1
Views
756
Zenon88
Z
Mr Latte
SimXperience - Buttkicker Mini LFE (SE) Simvibe Edition
2 3 4
Replies
112
Views
53K
Paul33993
Paul33993
xbudx
PC car racing / sim racing
Replies
9
Views
3K
greenlightning
G

Latest Posts

Back