So we might not get a patch.

[FLX1981]

Ian, Griff said in his OP to the " Shift 2 : Post patch 1 discussion/what's coming in the second patch" on No Grip that patch 1.02 on PC was the same as patch 1.03 on consoles and that both were submissioned to EA.

Another question I would like to add: Why is there no patch fix/feature list of the new PC patch?

Could you tell what was in there and if a potential 1.03 console patch would fix the same things?

 

[tribolik]

Hmmm, heres an OT question/s.

Will we ever see proper endurance races in Shift 2 with fuel consumption and tire wear modelled?

Any chance of getting GTE and LMP cars?

Will the weightlessness still felt after the patches we've had so far be fixed? I.E make the cars feel like they weigh something and not be so tail happy.

You must be kidding.... theres a chance that we wont even get the game working properly let alone more add ons....

Well I sent an e-mail to EA, and now doing thier "Live Chat" support. Not sure what this will do...

If they tell you to unistall and reinstall dont do it - I lost an hour of my life just to see the game freeze on the first time I tryed it after the fresh install..

Then they told me the problem was the Firmware and then my PS3... they told another user here the same thing and he eventually bought another PS3 just to have the game freeze on him again in his new Slim...

Then they directed me to the official forum to report the issue (that was the first thing I did before contacting them) telling me they didnt have any knowlodge of the issue... then I redirected them to their official forum (bug reports) and there it was on the last page alone 4 reports on freezing issues

Then they gave me an LE code and I gave up...

So from what I gather the issue is a bit complicated to resolve... it happens sometimes to some and sometimes it doesnt but it eventually always happens... it seems that the sloppy coding must be very hard to track and costly to fix

 

[MitchZ06]

Triple post...heard of the edit button?

 

[JogoAsobi]

I tried to return the game to EA due to lag issue prior to the patches that were released which partially rectified the issue, I will not go into detail as far as my correspondence with EA goes, except to say it was far less than satisfactory.

The patches rendered the game "playable" so I stuck with it and really like it...

BUT, I have started to notice a lot of buggy behavior after progressing methodically up through the career mode and finally arriving at A-Class where the cars are faster and I assume correspondingly put a heavier load on the system after completing all the prior events.

For Example

1) Quick races at Nurburgring GP the lead AI car will go up on two wheels and ride through the first turn on outside wheels at 45 degree angle and then recover while maintaining the lead.
2) The AI cars will jump up and down like pogo sticks when they collide with each other in first turns following starts in quick races.
3) Frequent controller disconnects after performing 10 or more laps in quick races on multiple tracks.
4) Major FFB issues on the controller wheel such as the wheel turning very hard to one side after a race ends or is quit, and then the menus cycle through uncontrollably unless the wheel the is forced into a "Neutral" position until a race is started which will bring it back to normal input.

So I have to agree with observation that a lot of people on consoles may not get far enough into the game to experience these glitches, or simply don't bother to report them anymore, I also reported most of the issues I had to the official EA forum thread for bug reporting.

Although I would prefer to play Shift on a PC, my current circumstances are such that I am stuck with a PS3 Slim and a FANATEC GT3 RS wheel that became unsupported a week or so prior to the release of the NFS S2U by EA for still undisclosed reasons.

So I have been watching the discussions taking place today on GTPlanet and NoGripRacing with great interest.

Having worked for major computer companies, and in Silicone Valley back in the day I can greatly appreciate what limitations the signature on a NDA can have in communications.

I think that many forum participants do not fully grasp the legal ramifications that breaking NDAs can incur, and with that in mind the SMS guys are doing the best they can, so no matter the level of frustration (I am too) disrespect is really not warranted.

So my principal request at this time to the SMS guys is; Please fix the types of communications issues that console players of NFS S2U are experiencing regarding bugs/issues/general questions when you release your community-based sim.

...and please provide us a Nordchleife that has the full 24 hour track configuration and Monza banks that can be raced on!

 

[tribolik]

Triple post...heard of the edit button?

Your great at pointing out the obvious... if you wasted your time complaining to EA instead of doing what I had allready done....

 

[bmwisme]

You must be kidding.... theres a chance that we wont even get the game working properly let alone more add ons....
...

I agree... until the freezing issue is fixed what good is adding something else. There are many other bugs and enhancement ideas but the freezing is a deal breaker for most. "I" can play as-is but most will not and I will agree that freezing/crashing should not be accepted in any software.
We should be focused in our demand for attention! It's not just annoying, it could be harmful to the console.

 

[Vaxxtx]

My live chat with EA Customer Support: I am 2301979152 of course. I bolded the "scratch you head" type stuff.



Ankit: Hi, my name is Ankit. How may I help you?

Ankit: Are you there ?

2301979152: yes

2301979152: I am having issues with Shift 2 Unleashed.

Ankit: ok

Ankit: please elaborate your issue a bit more.

2301979152: There is huge Input lag with a stering wheel

2301979152: And also playing online the collision detection is way off.

Ankit: may I know since when you are encountering this issue ?

2301979152: Since the last patch was issued.

2301979152: I dont know the date. But its been a few months now.

2301979152: There was a patch today for the PC version that fixed those issues.

2301979152: We need that same patch for the PS3 version.

Ankit: let me check further.

Ankit: To help you get an effective solution, what I’m going to do for you is, escalate this issue to Level 2. Level 2 is well-equipped with the resources needed to handle your issue. It might take a while before you get connected; we appreciate your patience and cooperation.

Ankit has disconnected.

Jason: Hi, my name is Jason. How may I help you?

2301979152: Hello, I am having issues with Shift2.

Jason: I see that, sorry to hear you're still having issues

2301979152: 1. Input Lag still present with steering wheels.

2301979152: 2. Online collision detection still way off.

Jason: I checked the log above and the previous chat where we tried to assist you. It appears we've tried just about everything there is to try for you.

Jason: Do you own a Slim PS3?

2301979152: Yes

2301979152: Purchased in Sept of 2010

2301979152: The patch for the PC that came out today fied these issues for the PC version.

2301979152: fixed*

Jason: I've noticed these issues happen with the Slim PS3 quite often

Jason: I'm worried that it might be a hardware related issue with the game not working properly at that point.

2301979152: I also play it on a FAT.

Jason: Same issues on both?

2301979152: In my room.

2301979152: Yes..

Jason: That's certainly strange

Jason: What kind of internet connect do you have?

2301979152: The patch fixed those issues for the PC...

2301979152: Why are we not getting a patch for the PS3?

Jason: You should be, if there was a patch for PC you can expect a same or similar patch within the next 3 weeks usually.
Jason: As most games are either built for one or the other system ,they have to convert file info and code strings to console from PC or vice versa

2301979152: There is no announcement of a patch for the PS3

Jason: If they've informed users of that then I'm not sure there's anything I can do from here other than issue a refund for the inconvenience really.

Jason: I wish there were something I could do, but you've literally tried everything we have to offer in form of support

2301979152: Are these issues at least passed to the developer to fix?

Jason: If the developer is just short changing and not providing support for their players, then that is an injustice that will need to be addressed, but I can't guarantee it will have an effect on anything right away.
Jason: Yes, they are.

2301979152: They made a patch for the PC version, but not sure about for the PS3. If EA doesnt ask to it be made...

2301979152: Then it wont be.

2301979152: So they are stuck not being able to support the game.

Jason: Well, I have not heard anything of that sort, but they could be passing misinformation about an underside issue that cannot be presented in full terms at this time.
Jason: There are always different workings, things have to be passed through appropriate channels, informed by devs, passed back and forth, etc.

2301979152: Many PS3 users are having issues GTPlanet.com and are very upset with no patch coming. We are at a loss of what to do.

2301979152: Can you please pass on the information that the game is literally unbeatable because of bugs.

Jason: Yes, I will definitely.

2301979152: You cannot complete it at all.

2301979152: Thanks.

Jason: Sorry about that.

Jason: Can I help with anything else before I send this up and we go?

2301979152: No, I will not ask for a refund until its confirmed it wont be fixed.

Jason: Sounds like the best choice.

Jason: Well, it was nice chatting with you and I apologize for all the inconveniences. I'd like to thank you for contacting Electronic Arts and when you are ready, you can go ahead and press the disconnect button to exit the chat. Please have a great day, and don't hesitate to contact us in the future and we will be more than happy to help you.

2301979152: Have a good day

 

[MitchZ06]

I think I'm in the boat where the freezing issue has only happened to me, pre patch 1.01 so its probably why I'm not complaining. The issue I'm more worried about is the floatyness of the cars which is really annoying me...

Question, did the PC patch fix the issues you're talking about?...

 

[badeddy]

Ian can you guys please adress the ffb issues that I am having on x box 360 it's impossible to race online because it drops out at the beginning of each race. I have tried everything and prior to the second patch the issues with ffb had been fixed. I think that most peoples frustration comes from a game that they really like but can't play and get enjoyment from with all the issues plagueing it and while we understand that ndas limit what you can and can't say it would be more appreciative if you could comment and respond more on console players forums. It just feels like we are really left with little to no communication while the pc folks have more interaction with you guys and get more in terms of communication.

 

[FLX1981]

@ Vaxxtx: Why didnt you report the freezing issues to them?

 

[bredita]

You can try this but I dont think it will help - http://support.ea.com.

or email them at this customerservice@ea.com

I tried that, and have been discussing with EA support (norway) for weeks. Their final word was that they "don't know" if another patch is being made or will be released (PS3).

I started a thread here where I tried to get people to register a support case with EA if they also experienced issues (specifically the freezing with fast cars), but this thread was quickly closed by a moderator because we had a "bug list" thread (the OP did not do as he promised, so this thread has turned into an endless repetition of everyones issues, instead of having a nice list of verified bugs...)

So again, please register a support case with EA if you have problems with the game - they don't read this forum, and I doubt they read their own forums, so posting here will not get EA's attention.

 

[Vaxxtx]

@ Vaxxtx: Why didnt you report the freezing issues to them?

I was trying, when I was typing he/she kept responding too fast. I got 1, and 2 down, but never made it to 3.

I highly doubt it will go anywhere anyway. It seemed like an outsourced call center for EA. But I also sent a detailed e-mail with all the issues. Maybe get more people to write some ? Will it even help?

 

[wicken]

I am talking with them now about the freezing issues and they just give me some tips that i already done.
This issue can also be caused due to corrupt game save files, please follow the below given steps to delete your game save files:

1. Press the PS button on the controller to enter the PLAYSTATION 3 XBM (XrossMediaBar).
2. Select the Game tab.
3. Select the Save Data Utility and press the X button.
4. Delete all the files related to the game.
Note: deleting your game save file would reset your offline game progress and you would need to play the game from start.

 

[FLX1981]

Dunno, vaxx. I wrote an email like that to EA around 3-4 weeks ago, some days after patch 2 since the freezing issue was still obvious. Didnt get any answer.

That was the german EA customer disservice, though. Thats even more useless, they dont even have the chat option.

 

[bredita]

I am talking with them now about the freezing issues and they just give me some tips that i already done.
This issue can also be caused due to corrupt game save files, please follow the below given steps to delete your game save files:

1. Press the PS button on the controller to enter the PLAYSTATION 3 XBM (XrossMediaBar).
2. Select the Game tab.
3. Select the Save Data Utility and press the X button.
4. Delete all the files related to the game.
Note: deleting your game save file would reset your offline game progress and you would need to play the game from start.

They're just going through their standard procedure.

1. If the game doesn't work: Reinstall
2. If it still doesn't work: Delete everything (including game save) and reinstall again.
(I've done step 1 and 2 around 4 or 5 times)
3. Blame peripherals (My g27 steering wheel in my case), so I had to prove that the same problem exists when using a pad.
4. If it still doesn't work, blame the game disc and offer you to exchange it (takes weeks from EA, your local shop may accept an exchange like mine did).
5. If it still doesn't work, blame your hardware (PS3 in my case) and tell you to contact playstation support

Optional (I tried this too):
5. Buy a new PS3 and tell them the problem is exactly the same on the new one.
6. EA will admit that they are not able to help you solve the problem, and that they have escalated the case to the next level.
7. Wait (for months) and get nothing - I never heard anything from their higher level support. (Edit: Well, they suggested I get the game disc replaced, but since I had already done that, he sent the case back to extended support, and extended support never got back to my customer support contact person, it seems...)

If you complain enough they may even send you a new game disc for free, like I got, this one was the standard edition, but that one freezes also...

 

[wicken]

The good thing is that this guy is going to pass this chat to EA about the freezing issues(FINALLY) but i am still waiting for some resolution from them about other things like autolog disconnections while i am racing online or lose a race because of autolog disconnecting in the middle.

 

[bredita]

You are being heard guys. It's just that we're not free to respond to things that our out of our remit, much though we'd like to.

If this issue has been passed to EA support I can't for the life of me see why we didn't get a request to fix it via their QA dept. We certainly don't want any of our customers to be experiencing issues like this and would of course fix it.

Hi Ian,

Thanks for reading the forum and replying to us

I reported this "freezing when driving fast cars" issue (on PS3):
Case number 110406-016167, registered on the 6th of april, almost two months ago. They escalated it to their higher level support on april 12th. I communicated with them until may 19th, and gave up.

Several other users have contacted support about the same issue.

So yes, not everything reaches you, I guess.

Great game BTW, it's one of the best racing games I have played.

If EA only wanted to fix the freezing issue then I'd hold on to it. I don't care much about "floaty feeling", "steering lag" and them other bugs (don't get me wrong, I understand why others care, and if these things are improved, then that's great.)
The only bug I can't live with is when it freezes during a race.

 

[wicken]

Ok i finished the conversation with the tier 2 support team. He told me that he is going to pass the chat about the freezing issues and autolog disconnections to the team. He also give me some suggestions to avoid the freezing issues: Daniel R.: I have done some research and the last things to try is: 1. try it on on a new PSN ID 2. Try a different console 3. Send it to our warranty department

Warranty policy -> http://support.ea.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/34

 

[bredita]

Ok i finished the conversation with the tier 2 support team. He told me that he is going to pass the chat about the freezing issues and autolog disconnections to the team. He also give me some suggestions to avoid the freezing issues: Daniel R.: I have done some research and the last things to try is: 1. try it on on a new PSN ID 2. Try a different console 3. Send it to our warranty department

Warranty policy -> http://support.ea.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/34

Thanks - the more cases they get about this issue the better

I've tried the three suggestions some time ago, and it didn't help in my case (but it gave me a reason to play through several carreer races again, which was lots and lots of fun, until I got a works car and it froze again )

 

[jbuzza]

I have also logged ticket for freezing. Maybe if everyone who has this issue logs ticket it will get passed through to SMS.

 

[pgagoober]

We are restricted from talking about this via a huge NDA guys. I've stated this many times but it ends up 10 pages back and the frustration builds. I'd be writing essays if I was allowed to.

Well this is certainly understandable and would explain the lack of recent communication to the console customers.

Ian - Does the NDA just prohibit you from discussing patch release schedules or does it prevent you from discussing anything you are working on wrt to the console version of the game?

If the latter, I can only assume that the NDA is a recent development. Here are a couple of your comments from the input lag thread way back in April :

Quick post to say that we've removed the lag internally (well, down to hardware limits) and we're have a blast in testing with the wheels here. Some 'late in the day' asynchronous changes with a view to optimization put things out of kilter a touch. The changes mean that the input is now processed very early on in the frame and filtered through to the physics as quickly as possible.

Big thanks to gtplanet forums and members for the feedback. We do read as much as we can.

Among a lot of ancillary issues, we've fixed the freeze that some punters were experiencing. There's a lot more besides but I'd be stealing EA marketing thunder

Clearly you were aware of the input lag and freezing issues before patch 1.02 was released and you believed you had fixed them. Since you say above that you have reduced the input lag down to the hardware limits is it therefore safe to say that we should not expect any further improvement in that regard? i.e. Patch 1.02 was as good as it can get?

Thanks for your input (despite the lag)

 

[Vaxxtx]

Well this is certainly understandable and would explain the lack of recent communication to the console customers.

Ian - Does the NDA just prohibit you from discussing patch release schedules or does it prevent you from dicsussing anything you are working on wrt to the console version of the game?

If the latter, I can only assume that the NDA is a recent development. Here are a couple of your comments from the input lag thread way back in April :





Clearly you were aware of the input lag and freezing issues before patch 1.02 was released and you believed you had fixed them. Since you say above that you have reduced the input lag down to the hardware limits is it therefore safe to say that we should not expect any further improvement in that regard? i.e. Patch 1.02 was as good as it can get?

Thanks for your input (despite the lag)

Yeah, that is kind of what I am wondering as well.

 

[bmwisme]

In my opinion... the only glaring unacceptable bug is the PS3 freezing problem. It is the only bug/problem that I think everyone has. There are Autolog disconnections, failure to get race payouts, FFB dropouts, etc. but the freezing is effecting everyone - again, some more that others.
Again in my opinion, the steering lag, floating control, livery editor "severe" limitations, collision detection online, etc. are irratating but could be attributed to the ability of the programmers to capture the racing/driving experience or effectiveness of the included features.
The freaking FREEZING cannot in any shape or form be explained as an unobtainable or unrealistic user expectation. This is a blatant failure in the production of this title.

We need to focus and let our voice be heard. As IanBell stated in an email to me regarding the freezing issue:

"The honest truth is that we get a list of bugs from EA and we fix them. This hasn't been passed to us."

If this is true, and I hope Ian is being true to us, this is unbelievable! It "seems" like the freezing issue is NOT being communicated or is being swept under the rug. Can anyone on the PS2 think of another game that will freeze/hard crash your console - regularly!

 

[pgagoober]

^ I absolutely agree that the freezing is a must-fix problem. That said, I put the game aside because of the input lag and I won't play it again until it is fixed (if ever). Personally I would very reluctantly accept an occasional freeze in exchange for a more direct steering interface. Of course - that depends on how "occasional" the freeze is, and that seems to vary quite a lot per user.

In short - most likely both the lag and freezing are must-fix for a decent chunk of players, even if they're not all in both camps.

 

[bmwisme]

^ I absolutely agree that the freezing is a must-fix problem. That said, I put the game aside because of the input lag and I won't play it again until it is fixed (if ever). Personally I would very reluctantly accept an occasional freeze in exchange for a more direct steering interface. Of course - that depends on how "occasional" the freeze is, and that seems to vary quite a lot per user.

In short - most likely both the lag and freezing are must-fix for a decent chunk of players, even if they're not all in both camps.

I see your point and I understand each will have their own opinion or acceptable criteria. I can play the game as-is with all warts except the freezing. That will stop anyone in their tracks. AND, I personally don't have many freezes.
Again, I know what you are getting at as I don't like to play GT5 because of the lack of damage model, the easy AI, and ramming cars/walls invincibilty - it comes down to acceptable experience.

 

[JogoAsobi]

bmw2sq: "The honest truth is that we get a list of bugs from EA and we fix them. This hasn't been passed to us."

EA's official forum's Bug Reports thread has multiple postings regarding the NFS S2U freezing issue.

Knock on wood, I have not yet experienced the freezing issue others have on my PS3 SLIM after the 2 patches, although I have experienced an intermittent freeze here and there (as I did with Shift 1 too).

There are still a lot of other bugs I am experiencing in NFS S2U but for the most part they are tolerable except for the bizarre AI behavior, and slight lag.

Having played both Shift 1 and S2U a fair amount (75% career in S1, and 50% career so far in NFS S2U), from my perspective S2U seems to have a lot more "bugs" than S1 did.

From all that I have read on the various forums and reading between the lines it seems as if EA has the final word if an issue is deemed to be worthy of being "fixed" by a patch.

I would venture to guess that they probably do that evaluation based on some kind of statistics using the EA forum's bug-related thread data and maybe their CS data.

 

[squeakD]

To Ian Bell:

I think it's great to see you posting here. I personally don't feel you have your head up your backside. However.., I will say that that there is an obvious block of proper communication to the consumers. Many of us IMO have clearly shown our support for the series.

I'll use myself as an example. I own Shift 1 and Unleashed on the Xbox.., and I own Shift 1 and Unleashed on the PS-3. I also have purchased numerous DLC packs as well. Taking into consideration the amount of money I've dropped in support of your title (I could have bought a high end racing wheel or a whole new gaming system) for the amount of money I've personally invested in the franchise.

We console users currently feel we have no voice at the moment. There is CLEARLY an issue with bugs/glitches still present in this title. Naturally we console users feel shafted as it does "appear" the focus is being placed on the PC players. The PC players already benefit from the ability to mod this game.., yet your BIGGEST group of buyers (those who own consoles) are left out feeling shafted.

At this point.., IMO Unleashed has yet to reach the level of Shift 1 in terms of vehicle handling on the consoles. Shift-1 is far from perfect.., bit IMO was at least patched to a level beyond the current state of Unleashed. Unleashed might be "prettier" to look at.., but it still has yet to surpass the original.

All I can say is that if a patch isn't released to correct the more serious remaining issues (including what remains of the input lag) and other major problems such as lock ups.., BOTH of my copies of Unleashed will be traded and I'll never purchase another title by SMS again. I'm sure me not ever buying it again will not impact you.., but what you guys fail to see is the MANY MANY MANY unhappy consoler users out there who are frustrated and fed up with this title.

I don't know what type of disclosure agreements you've signed with EA.., but this half-ass treatment reflects poorly on (both) SMS and EA.

 

[RomKnight]

I talked to EA customer service right now using live chat. In the beginning there was Sandra... the usual formatted answers (actually it seems she was talking to 100 upset customers at a time so she took her time..)

I was quickly moved to an upper level of support. Now Katherine was very helpful or tried to... I even bother to mess with my firewall portforwarding and do everything as requested. Unfortunately, I can freeze the game whenever I want since its easy to replicate so the last options were:
- wait for an update
- try a new disc (which I'll ask about under warranty as suggested by her)

She also asked me to run a trace program which I didn't because I use Linux and that's for windows, 2nd because online stuff is irrelevant since the game can freeze off-line. I'm guessing that trace program just checks for connectivity with EA and log it.

So, here you have it. Two very nice ladies tried and failed miserably to help about the freezing issue.

What would happen if every single user would take the trouble to actually rant about it to EA... Twice?

 

[tribolik]

Well I did that and after 10 or 15 emails they gave me an LE code but what good is it to me if I cant do what I enjoy the most with the game - drive fast cars around the Ring...

It isnt hardware related, it is sloppy coding... and by the looks of it very hard or expensive to fix...

 

[bmwisme]

I talked to EA customer service right now using live chat. In the beginning there was Sandra... the usual formatted answers (actually it seems she was talking to 100 upset customers at a time so she took her time..)

I was quickly moved to an upper level of support. Now Katherine was very helpful or tried to... I even bother to mess with my firewall portforwarding and do everything as requested. Unfortunately, I can freeze the game whenever I want since its easy to replicate so the last options were:
- wait for an update
- try a new disc (which I'll ask about under warranty as suggested by her)

She also asked me to run a trace program which I didn't because I use Linux and that's for windows, 2nd because online stuff is irrelevant since the game can freeze off-line. I'm guessing that trace program just checks for connectivity with EA and log it.

So, here you have it. Two very nice ladies tried and failed miserably to help about the freezing issue.

What would happen if every single user would take the trouble to actually rant about it to EA... Twice?

Rom, can you post the EA contact link and/or phone number so we all can gnaw on their ear. We need them to hear us loud and clear - S2U FREEZES ON THE PS3 CONSOLE! SMS is saying they were not aware - not sure I believe that but I will not call them a lier either.