- 115
Hehe
it is just to point out how ridicilous the "don't like it, don't play it" comment is 
was fitting to bring george W into the mix
Thank you PD and Kazunori for an amazing game.
- Thread starter gaming25
- 181 comments
- 11,049 views
Hehe
it is just to point out how ridicilous the "don't like it, don't play it" comment is was fitting to bring george W into the mix
- 831
- ANFD
You guys are unreal ..... all I see are differing opinions. I've been very critical of the game myself but still play the heck out of it. One's personal preferences (wheels or no wheels, driving views, content, tracks , cars) are just as Donovan (1960's reference) once said, "one man's opinion of moonlight". I've had to read thru volumns of criticisms that have little bearing on reality. For example, one guy was furious because apparently, he was too stupid to figure out how to turn off the in race music. The part I don't understand is why a thread exists with the title as such, and then it's filled with such argumentative crap. I listed the things I had issues with in the appropriate thread. I came here because I appreciate the fact that PD actually changed a few things based on our previous complaints. I want to thank them for removing the violent wheel chatter down the Mulsanne straight for us wheel users. I want to thank them for taking the snap oversteer when lifting off throttle from the Ford GT and GTLM. It is much more realistic and fun to drive. I want to thank them for many of the subtle delicacies they've included such as bringing the audio back after pausing the game with such a pleasant and gradual escalation. No other game does things like that.
I'm also glad that Kazunori San has such a passion for cars, since I do also and I wouldn't have had the thousands of hours of enjoyment from all versions of GT if it weren't for his being who he is. For all of those who think in terms of "business" as the driving model for everything, maybe Kaz could have made another cartoon go kart game and turned a profit. He didn't and I'm grateful
I'd also like to thank them for delaying the full damage model as this has given me the opportunity to become accustomed to the physics, build my garage nicely and put away some money before being hit by huge repair bills that would inevitably, slow my game progress and contribute to my frustration
The game is flawed and I have many disappointments but I'd plunk down the money for it again before I could draw another breath. I have owned every racing game ever made for the PS systems as well as Dreamcast and most of the PC offerings. I still have over 100 in my library. None of them are perfect. All of them have their shortcomings. GT5, while falling into this same situation is still, relatively speaking, a darn good game (and value) if not one of the best. I am hopeful that DL content will fill out some of the gaps and either way, I'm sure I'll get my money's worth. I've completed 58% of the game, at Level 27 and finished the first 3 Endurance events. I started GT4 from start to finish 4 times and I expect to do the same with this version
I'm also glad that Kazunori San has such a passion for cars, since I do also and I wouldn't have had the thousands of hours of enjoyment from all versions of GT if it weren't for his being who he is. For all of those who think in terms of "business" as the driving model for everything, maybe Kaz could have made another cartoon go kart game and turned a profit. He didn't and I'm grateful
I'd also like to thank them for delaying the full damage model as this has given me the opportunity to become accustomed to the physics, build my garage nicely and put away some money before being hit by huge repair bills that would inevitably, slow my game progress and contribute to my frustration
The game is flawed and I have many disappointments but I'd plunk down the money for it again before I could draw another breath. I have owned every racing game ever made for the PS systems as well as Dreamcast and most of the PC offerings. I still have over 100 in my library. None of them are perfect. All of them have their shortcomings. GT5, while falling into this same situation is still, relatively speaking, a darn good game (and value) if not one of the best. I am hopeful that DL content will fill out some of the gaps and either way, I'm sure I'll get my money's worth. I've completed 58% of the game, at Level 27 and finished the first 3 Endurance events. I started GT4 from start to finish 4 times and I expect to do the same with this version
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- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
Today I did the AMG challenge last one in Beginner with the Gulwing.Overtaking all those Mercedes with Lose control by ash playing and all that with the G25 .
Simply on of the best offline experiences that I had with any game to date.
PD and Kaz I salute you.
Simply on of the best offline experiences that I had with any game to date.
PD and Kaz I salute you.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
First of all, there are no "Gods."
Second, you obviously haven't read my criticisms of GT5. Making things up isn't helping your debate points any. But I'm used to the way you and Dev argue by now. I suppose you can finally say that GT5 is kind of like the Forza series, as both seem to be in beta stages.
Huh... and this is from a guy who lives in a country where they worship futbol players.
Like... you do know that billions of people collect images of all kinds of people, some not even real. HUGE posters of them. Even South American futbol stars. Is your country overrun with weirdos?
This is probably a news flash to you, but it's pretty rare when an actor who plays a doctor on TV knows a thing about medicine. Or plays a fighter pilot who knows how to fly a plane. The guys who make up Turn 10 studios know how to buy cars and take them to garages where they use some of that cash they make to pay people to upgrade them. Some of them might actually have spent some time at a track meet.
Well, the head of Polyphony Digital is actually able to meet record lap times on race courses, and what's more, is able to compete head to head in professional racing events. And beat some good pro racecar drivers. Maybe that's irrelevant to you, but that wouldn't surprise me a bit.
You two sure have a poopy attitude.
Then report me,Now this is what I callborderlinetrolling.
I suppose I could amplify a bit on my post. I know human nature, that people tend to be lazy and only do what they really want to, so most movie goers, music buyers whatever, only enjoy their products and it wouldn't even occur for them to do more than yell their heads off at a concert. In fact, basic common courtesy is really rare these days, thinking of others, giving to charity.
We had a holiday last week, Thanksgiving, and it's a big deal here. I had to go to the store because mom passed away, and my brother's wife - who is Japanese by the way - got stuck dealing with preparing this feast for us all, as another goofy brother's worthless girlfriend who said she'd help out... didn't. Poor Shino was left in the lurch and had to do some scrambling to get a few more things ready for the hungry hoard descending on her. I got to go to the store at the last minute and see how many others were rushing to get things wrapped up for their own dinners, people who really should have been done if they'd just shopped early, like normal people. The poor store workers were rushing around to help out, hoping the clock would hurry up and reach 2 pm so they could go to their own families and have the rest of the day to celebrate and enjoy their company.
I made it a point to thank everyone I saw for working on Thanksgiving. I started doing this a few years ago, because I realized it was the least I could do for people who were stuck doing the worst thing ever, giving up time with their families on the holidays to serve a thankless mob.
Do you do anything like this? Or do you think, it's their job anyhow, that's why they get paid, right? Why bother?
Actually, you have no business in this thread, you or Dev either one. Neither do you other whiners. There are whining threads all over the place, leave here. Post there. Seriously, act like you have brains and living souls once in a while.
airjoker88
(Banned)
- 184
First of all, there are no "Gods."
Second, you obviously haven't read my criticisms of GT5. Making things up isn't helping your debate points any. But I'm used to the way you and Dev argue by now. I suppose you can finally say that GT5 is kind of like the Forza series, as both seem to be in beta stages.
Huh... and this is from a guy who lives in a country where they worship futbol players.
Like... you do know that billions of people collect images of all kinds of people,
This is probably a news flash to you, but it's pretty rare when an actor who plays a doctor on TV knows a thing about medicine. Or plays a fighter pilot who knows how to fly a plane. The guys who make up Turn 10 studios know how to buy cars and take them to garages where they use some of that cash they make to pay people to upgrade them. Some of them might actually have spent some time at a track meet.
Well, the head of Polyphony Digital is actually able to meet record lap times on race courses, and what's more, is able to compete head to head in professional racing events. And beat some good pro racecar drivers. Maybe that's irrelevant to you, but that wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Then report me,Father Superiorgood sir.
I suppose I could amplify a bit on my post. I know human nature, that people tend to be lazy and only do what they really want to, so most movie goers, music buyers whatever, only enjoy their products and it wouldn't even occur for them to do more than yell their heads off at a concert. In fact, basic common courtesy is really rare these days, thinking of others, giving to charity.
We had a holiday last week, Thanksgiving, and it's a big deal here. I had to go to the store because mom passed away, and my brother's wife - who is Japanese by the way - got stuck dealing with preparing this feast for us all, as another goofy brother's worthless girlfriend who said she'd help out... didn't. Poor Shino was left in the lurch and had to do some scrambling to get a few more things ready for the hungry hoard descending on her. I got to go to the store at the last minute and see how many others were rushing to get things wrapped up for their own dinners, people who really should have been done if they'd just shopped early, like normal people. The poor store workers were rushing around to help out, hoping the clock would hurry up and reach 2 pm so they could go to their own families and have the rest of the day to celebrate and enjoy their company.
I made it a point to thank everyone I saw for working on Thanksgiving. I started doing this a few years ago, because I realized it was the least I could do for people who were stuck doing the worst thing ever, giving up time with their families on the holidays to serve a thankless mob.
Do you do anything like this? Or do you think, it's their job anyhow, that's why they get paid, right? Why bother?
Actually, you have no business in this thread, you or Dev either one. Neither do you other whiners. There are whining threads all over the place, leave here. Post there. Seriously, act like you have brains and living souls once in a while.
daaaaaang, I want to make a thread thanking you now! lol
But good stuff mayne, respect.
👍
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
D, while I share similar feelings about the Thanksgiving story, take it down a notch. Don't tell other members where they can and cannot post, especially considering you have no problems frequenting the "whining" threads.
GT5 is a schizophrenic experience, I've found. Some of it is so utterly backwards, even compared to GT4, that I wonder where the heck the time was spent. Other times, when I'm racing a dozen friends on the 'Ring, and it starts getting dark, with nothing but the interior gauges of my F40 and the shoddy headlights lighting up a bit of the track on screen, and then it starts to rain, making me wonder why I'm running a 600hp beast with no aids on the hardest course... yeah, the flaws matter a lot less.
airjoker88
(Banned)
- 184
^ Whilst i must agree, he was quite "tenacious", why must people come in here to argue the validation of someones appreciation?
No need period.
No need period.
- 4,323
First of all, there are no "Gods."
I don't know if this was a spite at religion in general or just saying KY isn't one, will assume the latter... where were you the last few years when people on the forum regularly referred to him as some kind of god, deitizing him left and right?
Your list of criticisms is a regurgitation of what others have put forth that can't be discredited and is always more of an apology or excuse letter than anything else.
As for being like Forza I would hope this whole GT5 will finally humble the fans a bit... if we go back over the last few years the GT fans have been left and right nitpicking Forza while reminding everyone "that's what happens when you rush" and "that's why you don't outsource"... I would say the tables are squarely turned now and while GT still rides proud on it's better physics engine, the race is closer than ever there and the rest of the features... well it doens't need explaining.
Huh... and this is from a guy who lives in a country where they worship futbol players.
As I said before, there is a difference between performer idolizing and product maker idolizing. It's the same with music artists.
And maybe it's irrelevant to game design and maybe it's been a large part of why GT5 is so unfinished... when the boss spends his time out playing perhaps the product suffers for it, but that's ok they got our $$$ anyway.
Look at all the great games out there... how many of them needed someone who was an actually marine, an actual airforce pilot, an actual monster collector to make them good? You are infering causation where it may well be at best correlation or even not relevant at all.
You guys should sort out your opinions then... you are both sure opposing things are the norm.
Off topic but does Shino have two Dachshund dogs?
I worked as a waiter for many years. Waiters have to work the majority of holidays as people like to go out on those days. We thought people like you were weird. It's part of the job and we knew it when we came on board. Like any other job there are negatives and working holidays is one of them but it's offset by all the perks of the job. We didn't thank those who worked weekens when we wen't shopping and we didn't thank office workers who work the 9 to 5 for suffering through the heaviest traffic to get to and from work and working shifts that make it harder to do personal business (nothing like having a work day that goes 4pm to 10pm everything is open and empty when you do your personal stuff off hours!)
So from the horses mouth, your insinuated insult doens't matter one iota.
Don't get me wrong, it's not like a random thank you for nothing special isn't fine to recieve, but thanking me for working a holiday was like putting money in a tip jar on a security guards desk... if you want to, go for it. I do not understand why you would think you need to thouh....
Yes sir all might father.
BTW why aren't you so avid keeping the hardcore denialist and fanboys out of the threads for us whiners? You only whiteknight when it serves your own cause.
daaaaaang, I want to make a thread thanking you now! lol
But good stuff mayne, respect.
Wow... creep factor x10..
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- 926
- machschnel
To be honest, that's not all that impressive. I learnt from a young age (karting, then Formula Ford), skill had little to do with most motor racing. Obviously some people just can't do it, but given enough time and MONEY, most people start to put up respectable times.
The fact that Kaz put's up good lap times is irrelevant. If you had his money and backing, I have no doubt you wouldn't be far off him.
Motorsport, even (especially) at the top, is a money game. You got the cash, you got the ride. I'm not saying skill doesn't play a part, but I've seen natural drivers left behind due to the money problem. Take David Sera. Number 1 kart racer in Australia for the last few years by a mile, but can't get enough money/backing together to "pay for a ride" beyond karting.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
The same reason others must go to other threads to argue the validation of someone's criticisms, I suspect. Or, more succinctly:
It works both ways, and has been more than a bit of a headache for some of us. This is where I would say we can steer this back towards being on-topic, but reading the OP, I'm not entirely sure what that topic is. Is this just a place to write thank-yous? Are we going to list why we're pleased with the game? Some meaningful discussion about the positives of GT5 could be a good place to start.
- 415
- GTP_infamousDee
I wouldn't expect you to understand this, but perhaps this "game design" you speak of is irrelevant to GT's physics and unrivalled passion for cars.
- 4,323
It's possible that there is a correlation, I am not denying that, but you can't just say it like it's true since numerous examples exist where a top notch game is made by a company that has no such tie with their subject matter.
- 926
- machschnel
Unrivalled passion for cars... it's a pity that "passion" doesn't extend to Porsche.
- 5,696
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
- 4,323
- 926
- machschnel
That has nothing to do with passion.
Do tell what it does have to do with?
Were they scared off by the damage? Probably, GT5s "extensive" damage model would make customer think twice about buying that 911...... but doesn't Forza have damage? But I suppose that's Microsoft doing ($$$$). What about Grid? You can't tell me Codemasters are better off then Sony backed, Polyphony?
- 4,323
There was a Porsche in GT4, but it was hidden and not accessible (think hot coffee from GTA) rumor is that Kaz really wanted Porsche in so much he modeled and put one in despite not having a license to do so. When the game went live they took it out of the game but the code was still there.
The rumor continues that Porsche did not like this and got pissed and that has made bad blood between PD and Porsche since. So it may have been Kaz's desire to drive a Porsche in his game that resulted in no Porsche now.
That said it's all rumor as far as I know and considering how much money is in the business and the way business works I take it with a grain of salt that Porsche is really holding out on Kaz. I mean it's not like they wouldn't sell him a car
And the question still stands why he couldn't/didn't get the Porsche license for GT4 anyway...
It's all rumor so take it as that.
- 831
- ANFD
As an avid supporter of the francise, you can see my love of the game in many of my posts. The above reference to kaz actually having had the experience of real racing is one of my biggest disappointments for the following reasons:
Kazunori San's experience has been most specifically in the area of Endurance racing. Having been professionally involved in Endurance racing myself, I am largely disappointed in that his version of what he calls "Endurance Racing" bears little resemblence to reality. What we basically have is what I would call simply "Extended Racing". In the game, it is nothing more than a typical race stretched from 10 laps to whatever number. It just doesn't have the feel or flavor of real Endurance racing.
Real world endurance racing incorporates several (maybe 1/2 dozen) different classes of cars which typically create a field 2 or 3 times the size of the average grid. In GT5 we're instead treated to a reduced size grid with only 11 opponents. In real life, the winning car is not always the fastest car on the track, but rather often the car that simply spends the least time in the pits. This brings into play the efficiency, reliability and strategy of the team. We raced a class "C" car and due to it's fuel economy, bullet proof reliability, better tire wear due to reduced power and weight, we pitted less often and had shorter stops. If it rained, our front wheel drive produced comparable lap times with rear wheel drive cars with more than twice the HP. Winning a 24 hour race with the "Overall" win knowing you beat Class A and B cars was a terrific accomplishment and a great joy.
I realize that GT5 now incorporates many new elements that are meant to enhance the Endurance races such as tire wear, fuel depletion, weather and time transition, but it doesn't really come close to capturing the elements and feeling of real endurance racing. (GTR2 comes the closest).
I am therefore imploring PD to dedicate themselves, with Kaz's personal experience, to create a dedicated game for Endurance racing. I realize that the PS3's limited memory may make this impossible but somewhere down the road I'd love to see it if the hardware would support it.
I'm sorry this is off-topic somewhat, but I was prompted by the notion stated here that Kaz's experience had some benefit in the game creation.
Kazunori San's experience has been most specifically in the area of Endurance racing. Having been professionally involved in Endurance racing myself, I am largely disappointed in that his version of what he calls "Endurance Racing" bears little resemblence to reality. What we basically have is what I would call simply "Extended Racing". In the game, it is nothing more than a typical race stretched from 10 laps to whatever number. It just doesn't have the feel or flavor of real Endurance racing.
Real world endurance racing incorporates several (maybe 1/2 dozen) different classes of cars which typically create a field 2 or 3 times the size of the average grid. In GT5 we're instead treated to a reduced size grid with only 11 opponents. In real life, the winning car is not always the fastest car on the track, but rather often the car that simply spends the least time in the pits. This brings into play the efficiency, reliability and strategy of the team. We raced a class "C" car and due to it's fuel economy, bullet proof reliability, better tire wear due to reduced power and weight, we pitted less often and had shorter stops. If it rained, our front wheel drive produced comparable lap times with rear wheel drive cars with more than twice the HP. Winning a 24 hour race with the "Overall" win knowing you beat Class A and B cars was a terrific accomplishment and a great joy.
I realize that GT5 now incorporates many new elements that are meant to enhance the Endurance races such as tire wear, fuel depletion, weather and time transition, but it doesn't really come close to capturing the elements and feeling of real endurance racing. (GTR2 comes the closest).
I am therefore imploring PD to dedicate themselves, with Kaz's personal experience, to create a dedicated game for Endurance racing. I realize that the PS3's limited memory may make this impossible but somewhere down the road I'd love to see it if the hardware would support it.
I'm sorry this is off-topic somewhat, but I was prompted by the notion stated here that Kaz's experience had some benefit in the game creation.
- 13
- MR_AWESOME55
Here's how I see it:
GT1 took about 5 years to make. It had a few cars and created sim racing on consoles.
GT2 came around a couple years later and added a bunch of new cars and new modes.
GT3 took a couple years to release, and it had less cars than GT2 had. This is because they needed to recreate everything for the PS2 hardware.
GT4 came out a few years later, and built upon where GT3 left off. It added more cars, modes, and events.
Then GT5 comes out, 5 years later. They needed to rebuild everything for the PS3, and they built a new physics engine, and added in some new features that hadn't been in the game before. Had PD followed the same routine as the GT2 to GT3 jump, we would have 250 cars, and that's all. But we got 1000.
GT5 added some prominent features to the series that had been requested for a LONG time, and although they weren't all done properly, they at least have them in the game, and now with online, they are able to fix flaws in the game.
I guess what I'm saying is, although there isn't as much content as most people expected, PD has consistently added more content for every odd numbered release. they created about the same amount of cars as GT3 in much more time because there was so much more to model. The game also adds in new tracks, which take time to model. Creating a physics engine from the ground up takes time. Building an online mode takes time. Creating a damage system that actually calculates speed and direction of impact takes time, and is something very different from current pre-determined damage models; obviously it isn't going to be perfect right away. Making weather and day-to-night transitions takes time.
Just imagine all the stuff GT6 will have if this is what we've gotten from GT5!
So far, I'm loving it, and I hope to see some of you on the track when I get decent lol
GT1 took about 5 years to make. It had a few cars and created sim racing on consoles.
GT2 came around a couple years later and added a bunch of new cars and new modes.
GT3 took a couple years to release, and it had less cars than GT2 had. This is because they needed to recreate everything for the PS2 hardware.
GT4 came out a few years later, and built upon where GT3 left off. It added more cars, modes, and events.
Then GT5 comes out, 5 years later. They needed to rebuild everything for the PS3, and they built a new physics engine, and added in some new features that hadn't been in the game before. Had PD followed the same routine as the GT2 to GT3 jump, we would have 250 cars, and that's all. But we got 1000.
GT5 added some prominent features to the series that had been requested for a LONG time, and although they weren't all done properly, they at least have them in the game, and now with online, they are able to fix flaws in the game.
I guess what I'm saying is, although there isn't as much content as most people expected, PD has consistently added more content for every odd numbered release. they created about the same amount of cars as GT3 in much more time because there was so much more to model. The game also adds in new tracks, which take time to model. Creating a physics engine from the ground up takes time. Building an online mode takes time. Creating a damage system that actually calculates speed and direction of impact takes time, and is something very different from current pre-determined damage models; obviously it isn't going to be perfect right away. Making weather and day-to-night transitions takes time.
Just imagine all the stuff GT6 will have if this is what we've gotten from GT5!
So far, I'm loving it, and I hope to see some of you on the track when I get decent lol
- 4,323
Great insite!
*ahem* GT5P *ahem*
GT5 is the second GT on PS3... if anything GT5P was the GT1 and GT3 of this generation.
- 13
- MR_AWESOME55
Yeah, and there was also a GT4 Prologue. GT5 Prologue was pretty much just showing what they had already, and although it had less cars and content than the other odd numbered releases, the cars took longer to make. They also had a working online mode, which wasn't really so great, but it was still new content added to the series.
EDIT: It also took 2 years to make
- 4,323
Well if you really want to list then there is GT HD and GT Vision in there somewhere as well although to what extend complete is debatable.
I am not sure the point you are making about GT5P though... as far as fitting into the scheme of things, other than the name, it fits the descrition of the odd numbered GTs to a T.
It's a major step up from the previous generation however has far less content.
GT5 is only a minor graphical step up from GT5P (if that) but features more content and new features.
Ignore the words in the name (like if you ignore windows names, Vista is obviously a kind of Win7 beta) and GT5P is clearly the odd numbered GT for the PS3 which makes GT5 (as the even numbered one) kind of depressing.
- 13
- MR_AWESOME55
Alright, I can see your point. I guess Kaz was right; they did spend too much time on the cars, but they sure are good-looking!
Either way, I'm still having a blast on GT5!
- 5,398
- Buenos Aires
First of all, there are no "Gods."
I'm not sure about that. I'm agnostic.
Can't really say that about Forza. It has its glitches, it has its bad things (I suppose, don't have the game). But it doesn't have 80% of its car list looking considerably worse (or less better
) than the other 20%.And to be honest... I have my own criticisms about GT4. And to me, it continues to be a gift from the Gods.
Huh... and this is from a guy who lives in a country where they worship futbol players.
Oh, I'm sorry. Did you asked to be born in your country? Lucky you.
Like... you do know that billions of people collect images of all kinds of people, some not even real. HUGE posters of them. Even South American futbol stars. Is your country overrun with weirdos?
Weirdos, stupid people, ignorants. You put a name on them. But luckily, I'm not one of them. I would never idolatrize somebody for something.
Moreover when that something is making a game.
I don't understand what does this have to do with anything... but you nailed it, this is absolutely irrelevant to me.
Why don't you report me, if you haven't already? I remember having been called a troll at least once by you.
1 - Because you don't want to.
2 - Because you don't want to, because you know I'm not trolling.
3 - Because it will be useless, since I'm not trolling.
Besides, I doubt someone can report another person for trolling.
I will remember this the next time you post in one of our "whining" threads.
- 630
- New York City
- albtifosi
The same reason others must go to other threads to argue the validation of someone's criticisms, I suspect. Or, more succinctly:
It works both ways, and has been more than a bit of a headache for some of us. This is where I would say we can steer this back towards being on-topic, but reading the OP, I'm not entirely sure what that topic is. Is this just a place to write thank-yous? Are we going to list why we're pleased with the game? Some meaningful discussion about the positives of GT5 could be a good place to start.
That image describes this forum perfectly. Trying to prove someone's opinion wrong is a sign of immaturity. Gaming is a form of media. The whole point of media if to get people to talk about it, even if what was said is good or bad. The whole point if for it not to be forgotten. The music industry provides a good example of this. Most pop songs tend to be forgotten but music which was controversial was always remembered. The reason for that is because they do not try to make everyone happy because if you do that you end up with something that is not that special.
That is what this game is! Controversial music.
On one side we have forza. A game that I do own and that I was happy with. The problem with forza is that it feels like a generic racing game. It's got s0m CR@zy mods and sick d@mage bro! That and it has 4wd vipers that you can own all the noobz with online. Giving people what they ask for is not good because everyone has different views on what makes a good game. In trying to please everyone you therefore end up with something that pleases no one. So it it normal that we have people stating their opinions on the game. What this forum has is people sharing their opinions about other people's opinions and arguing over them like they are fact.
This game is brilliant. Out of all the other games in the genre I have played, this is the most fun I have had. Yes it has problems. So does my 1998 mercedes. Is it any less of a mercedes because of those problems?
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