That's it I'm DONE with Daily Races and FIA Demolition Derbies

[polizei]

I didn't bother with the races this weekend since I'm not a fan of the tracks used. Sounds about on par with the daily races.

Would ghosting for the first minute of a race allow time for the pack to separate and settle down?

For these Championship FIA races PD should have put up a very strict super fast target qualifying lap at somewhere like the the Nurb that requires 100% on track and no wall contact whatsoever! when a driver is able to run this lap clean and legitimately and beat the lap time with no incidents then they should be allowed to enter the competition.. If they can't do it then they don't get in as simple as that! It will separate the wheat from the chaff and the genuine racers from the idiot punters and wallriders 👍

But no! .. they let any old Tom, Dick and Knobhead take part and wreck it for others 👎

For the record I haven't even signed up for these events as I knew in advance what carnage it would be and my fuse is super short enough

The problem is that racing solo is very different than with a pack. You might be awesome at setting good lap times and STILL have horrible etiquette

 

[KK78]

The game really struggles to understand these types of situations because a few things go weird here.
You overbrake, and are on a horrible line going through that corner, so the game might've registered you as brake checking the GT-R behind you.

I'm not saying you're at fault, I'm just saying why the game may have seen you as at fault.

My experience has been different, I'll upload a replay when I get home tonight, but I had a very good battle with 4th on Interlagos last night, it got a little bumpy and we both walked away with -SR ticks but no penalties which at the end of the day seems to be how the system is supposed to work.

That's a fair analysis I guess, I over braked because I knew the Cayman was going to dive in front of the Mclaren and the Mclaren was going to hit the Porsche (which it did) I totally accept it's a complicated scenario but I'd kinda prefer it had no system at all than this eventuality because of the 4 cars 'involved' in that incident I was the only one who got a penalty. Hopefully they are looking at it and the game is still a lot of fun.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The game really struggles to understand these types of situations because a few things go weird here.
You overbrake, and are on a horrible line going through that corner, so the game might've registered you as brake checking the GT-R behind you.

I'm not saying you're at fault, I'm just saying why the game may have seen you as at fault.

My experience has been different, I'll upload a replay when I get home tonight, but I had a very good battle with 4th on Interlagos last night, it got a little bumpy and we both walked away with -SR ticks but no penalties which at the end of the day seems to be how the system is supposed to work.

I've never seen any evidence the game recognizes brake checking and penalizes only the braking driver.

 

[ASH32]

I've never seen any evidence the game recognizes brake checking and penalizes only the braking driver.

Same, I've been brake checked and neither of us got a penalty. That's why they do it, stop you passing and get zero penalties.

The system just seems to give penalties to cars on the outside regardless of who caused the bumping/crash, with brake checks you usually hit the back of them and then no penalty is indicated at all.

 

[Mr P]

The problem is that racing solo is very different than with a pack. You might be awesome at setting good lap times and STILL have horrible etiquette

Yes that is true! 👍

But I am pretty sure the percentage of fast racers that are dirty in a race online is pretty low compared to how many people are inexperienced and have no race craft whatsoever due to not taking it serious or possess any form of racing etiquette! There's probably the odd Rogue Alien out there too

 

[Vendrah]

Guys, there is one thing that I would like to take note on this conversation.
Everyone starts at SR B, which is way too much for a starter.
If you get SR A, you still get people with SR B on the rooms.
Só, if you want to avoid the newcomers, that are not likely to be that clean and might commit brake mistakes (they are stilll getting used to the game) roght on your back... keeping the SR at S is a must. It doesn't matter if you are losing SR by unfair occasions.

I shared my beta account with another people and one of them, not knowing the Tokyo track, got our SR low by crashing lonely on the walls all the time... When I got to the lower SRs room I had a hard time to get the SR up since I was crashed all the time... then I realized that the solution was to drive like a lady, let whatever who wants to pass, until the SR gets right again. That meant losing DR, but it was necessary.

 

[GT Sport]

It's also totally unfair that you had the opportunity, while ghosted mind you, to completely back up to the other side of the track and re-align you car with the direction of travel and completely off of the racing line, before rejoining the race. Instead, you chose to move right onto the racing line in the middle of a chicane. Looks like you forced at least 2 cars onto the grass to avoid you, probably causing themselves a penalty as a result, and the third was lucky enough to ghost because they probably lost control trying to avoid you and may also have gone off track and cost themselves a time penalty.

I agree and I didn't say that what I did was completely right.
Coming from behind fast and ghosting, doesn't affect others I think. (Yeah it may do in different camera angles).
None of them seemed to lose control/time though. I just passed through them and hardly anybody would be able to react (Lamborghini or Jaguar).

 

[JulesDennis]

Yes that is true! 👍

But I am pretty sure the percentage of fast racers that are dirty in a race online is pretty low compared to how many people are inexperienced and have no race craft whatsoever due to not taking it serious or possess any form of racing etiquette! There's probably the odd Rogue Alien out there too

You'll be surprised (lol) by how many fast drivers are actually dirty racers (one way or another).

 

[Sean Renon]

I've never seen any evidence the game recognizes brake checking and penalizes only the braking driver.

I have.
I have had times coming into corners where the driver in front of me comes off the brakes to start turning, then slams on the brakes trying to initiate contact.
I hit him pretty good, no penalty (yes -SR).
I've also been on the other side of it where I was braking hard to avoid a collision in front of me, ended up getting rear ended and punted off track, I was given the 10 sec penalty (for trying to avoid an accident, but I think the game registered it as a brake check).

 

[Johnnypenso]

I have.
I have had times coming into corners where the driver in front of me comes off the brakes to start turning, then slams on the brakes trying to initiate contact.
I hit him pretty good, no penalty (yes -SR).
I've also been on the other side of it where I was braking hard to avoid a collision in front of me, ended up getting rear ended and punted off track, I was given the 10 sec penalty (for trying to avoid an accident, but I think the game registered it as a brake check).

That's not evidence. How do you know it isn't just hard contact resulting in penalties or loss of SR that coincidentally occurs in the braking zone?

 

[Mr P]

You'll be surprised (lol) by how many fast drivers are actually dirty racers (one way or another).

Well in all fairness I posted that hoping that the faster racers would have manners.. seems win at all costs is more important to some of them
I don't race enough online to say for sure as I have only raced 3 times online in GTS and I may have saw some carnage behind me in one race! but a blur in my rear view mirror is not enough to judge the fields manners :tup:

 

[qwbufp]

I got a 10s penalty at Interlagos at the start. We were two wide on the Senna S when someone cut the turn to make it 3-wide and pushed the other guy into my car. Got a penalty because it destabilized my car and I touched the other car trying to gain back control on the kerbs. I managed to recover but I was hit twice and someone just braked super early to avoid a loose NSX and I hit him (no negative SR). He came back and spun me as he thought I did it on purpose. Unless you get a good gap or start up front (which I can’t againt TRL_Doodle, grt123..., Windfire, GT_Academy2013...) it’s rough and tough and the penalties just rain on you.

 

[GTFraker]

The game is young, give it time. F1 stewards make a mess out of penalties too, hell Verstaapen seems to be doing all right; I don't see why people wouldn't follow his example in a video game.

 

[JulesDennis]

I have.
I have had times coming into corners where the driver in front of me comes off the brakes to start turning, then slams on the brakes trying to initiate contact.
I hit him pretty good, no penalty (yes -SR).
I've also been on the other side of it where I was braking hard to avoid a collision in front of me, ended up getting rear ended and punted off track, I was given the 10 sec penalty (for trying to avoid an accident, but I think the game registered it as a brake check).

You could have gotten that penalty for going off track and not for "break check") you know.And here is another problem:too many times people get a penalty or a SR drop but they are not sure for what reason.
Not only that creates confusion to said players but in some cases (in their eyes) is proff that the system does not work at all.
If only we could get info about said insidents (a way to explain why the game gives you a time penalty or SR negative rating) it would be
a.easy for people to learn from their mistakes
b.easy to see how well the system works (and as intended).

 

[Daverytimes]

Many who complain are stuck in ranks that make it difficult to have clean races, I find that anything below an SR/A would result in a dirty race, even in SR/S there are still dirty drivers but in general racing is much cleaner. Prioritize getting to an SR/S rank, before racing hard and attempting to build your DR. I've had pleasant experiences on all my FIA races, am only a DR/C but being an SR/S means that most whome I race against have a good knowledge of racing etiquette. I've gotten bumped but it never felt intentional, I carried on racing and still enjoyed myself.

 

[azrael1965]

I agree but many times its the other way around...

The game needs to punish the people who choose to divebomb other cars out of the way, it's such a cheap tactic and yet so many seem fine with doing it.

Exactly they will calculate that they will lose time anyway if they are behind a slower car. So hitting the other car off the track and having a small penalty is worth it. They should get the penalty they get right now and a additional one which is as long as the other car needs to get back on track. This way they will think twice about divebombing.
I believe most people would think that it's fair.

 

[PJTierney]

You'll be surprised (lol) by how many fast drivers are actually dirty racers (one way or another).

This is true as many of the fastest drivers in racing games tend to be hotlappers. Some of these are so used to having access the the entire width of a track that they don't know what do do when there's a car fighting them for the same apex.

 

[eran0004]

And I read it differently based on the sentence and paragraph structure.

You do know that is possible to read it both ways?

Anything is possible if you just try hard enough, but if you look at the context it is actually pretty clear that the specific problem discussed is players ramming other cars to gain positions.

1. How they could improve the penalty system would be to enforce that if a penalty collecting incident leads to the guilty (or most gulty) car gaining a place, they have to yield it. I was taken out in the Nations cup by a driver who objected to me getting a better exit on turn 3, drafting him on the pit straight and taking him at the line. So he simply didn't brake for turn 1, spun me out - which soon leads to being dead last on an oval.
I'm sure he took a penalty, but still finished ahead of me.

2. An obvious flaw with that is that it would require the game to know who the guilty party is.

​

3, Well, they know who to give a penalty too, if the one who's behind does something penalty worthy and gains a place within a certain amount of time, the result is clear.
Project cars 2 does this reasonably well, you pass someone 4 wheels off the track, you've got to hand the place back.

In many races it's entirely possible to ram your way to the front in turn one, and run down the penalty timer without losing a place by the time the race is over.​

 

[ferreira]

Guys, there is one thing that I would like to take note on this conversation.
Everyone starts at SR B, which is way too much for a starter.
If you get SR A, you still get people with SR B on the rooms.
Só, if you want to avoid the newcomers, that are not likely to be that clean and might commit brake mistakes (they are stilll getting used to the game) roght on your back... keeping the SR at S is a must. It doesn't matter if you are losing SR by unfair occasions.

I shared my beta account with another people and one of them, not knowing the Tokyo track, got our SR low by crashing lonely on the walls all the time... When I got to the lower SRs room I had a hard time to get the SR up since I was crashed all the time... then I realized that the solution was to drive like a lady, let whatever who wants to pass, until the SR gets right again. That meant losing DR, but it was necessary.

This is a good point.

I would like to know why PD decided to start everybody in SR:B, because I just can't see why they wouldn't put everybody into E to begin with, like with the DR. Obviously the bad drivers will drop down to C and so on, but for someone to recover from C back into B, only to find some newbie causing havoc, is hardly fair.

 

[EmArA]

Let us all be ghosts until PD sort things out
Haven’t enetered any FIA yet but it was obvious from gtr3 & 4 servers. Hate those rammers

 

[Foxis]

As happened to Seb Vettel after Baku you mean?

Pro sports in real life are all about finding ways to cheat that are not covered by the rules - motorsport even more so.

So you're digging up an example of FIA messing up to defend your bad analogy?

And late edit as I was in a bit of a hurry:

Do you seriously state that pro sports are all about cheating/bending the rules? If so I am hoping you do not partake in any sport since your very understanding of the concept of "sport" is extremely flawed.

- Is there a rule set for any sport covering all cases that may arise in said sport? No.
- Will certain people stop at nothing to win, including using loopholes, bending the rules, outright cheating, or use banned substances or aids? Yes.
- Will they sometimes get away with it? Yes.

Does that mean participating in sports - especially on an elite level - is about winning at all cost no matter how unsportsmanlike? Absolutely not.

The only person who would state this is someone who is inherently dishonest or corrupted. And while there are such people within all walks of life, including sports, their mere existence in pro sports does not define what it is all about.

Now, get off my lawn.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The game is young, give it time. F1 stewards make a mess out of penalties too, hell Verstaapen seems to be doing all right; I don't see why people wouldn't follow his example in a video game.

The game is young, gaming is not. Your inference is that people don't know how to behave and will learn in time. I see no evidence this will be the case. The game doesn't assign blame in incidents. It doesn't penalize contact enough to highly discourage it. You can find ways to game the system and win. Next to nothing in the highly touted campaign mode teaches you about proper etiquette in online racing and what content there is, is laughable. I also don't believe that people don't know what to do and will learn in time. Outside of the noobiest of noobs, I find it hard to believe there are masses of people out there that don't know that in organized racing you aren't supposed to run people off the track or smash into them without using the brakes to gain an advantage.

Unless they start including damage and altering the way penalties are handed out I think what you see is what you get. Some of the griefers will drop out in time but so will some of the good drivers too.

 

[Foxis]

Unless they start including damage and altering the way penalties are handed out I think what you see is what you get. Some of the griefers will drop out in time but so will some of the good drivers too.

The real danger is that the good drivers will drop out earlier than the bad ones, since right now clean drivers get punished more than the bad ones...

 

[Scaff]

Anything is possible if you just try hard enough, but if you look at the context it is actually pretty clear that the specific problem discussed is players ramming other cars to gain positions.

1. How they could improve the penalty system would be to enforce that if a penalty collecting incident leads to the guilty (or most gulty) car gaining a place, they have to yield it. I was taken out in the Nations cup by a driver who objected to me getting a better exit on turn 3, drafting him on the pit straight and taking him at the line. So he simply didn't brake for turn 1, spun me out - which soon leads to being dead last on an oval.
I'm sure he took a penalty, but still finished ahead of me.

2. An obvious flaw with that is that it would require the game to know who the guilty party is.

​

3, Well, they know who to give a penalty too, if the one who's behind does something penalty worthy and gains a place within a certain amount of time, the result is clear.
Project cars 2 does this reasonably well, you pass someone 4 wheels off the track, you've got to hand the place back.

In many races it's entirely possible to ram your way to the front in turn one, and run down the penalty timer without losing a place by the time the race is over.​

Which is your reading of it.

Unfortunately the English language is not that clear in regards to this kind of thing, as it's also three separate sentences, and as such can also be read as such.

Not quite sure why it's an issue given that I've acknowledged it could be read either way, however feel free to have the last word.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Exactly they will calculate that they will lose time anyway if they are behind a slower car. So hitting the other car off the track and having a small penalty is worth it. They should get the penalty they get right now and a additional one which is as long as the other car needs to get back on track. This way they will think twice about divebombing.
I believe most people would think that it's fair.

If you figure in the penalty time and then this is where turning on the damage to "high" within the race will result in damage to the vehicle from the contact slowing down or affecting the handling from that point on in the race until the car is taken to the pits and repaired which will change and eliminate any advantage gained by contact related driving techniques.

I think we are in a driver training or adjusting period to speak of hopefully to get drivers accustomed to racing clean and mistakes or overly aggressive behavior have consequences that affect your your current race and future rankings.

As we move forward I would love to see high damage, tire wear with driving style affecting longevity and grip of the tires and fuel mileage for the longer races for pit strategies.

We are seeing more and more introduced little by little just like the grid qualifying on a hot track with multiple cars which is common in most forms of motorsports. This was the first time we have seen this tactic used within the game.

I saw in one thread where in the series of races to allow qualifying times to choose your racing room or lobby to only be allowed for the 15 minutes while the race entry lobby is open. I agree that this actually is a fair solution rather than allowing someone hours to post a best lap that really put them in a race with racers above their level which could actually cause them to cause wrecks or penalties to be incurred as drivers work around the slower car among the faster racers.

Hopefully we will see more and more introduced as players adjust and the online racing will get even better and racing styles other than hot lappers will find their place to shine as well.

 

[Sloppy Shades]

Same, I've been brake checked and neither of us got a penalty. That's why they do it, stop you passing and get zero penalties.

The system just seems to give penalties to cars on the outside regardless of who caused the bumping/crash, with brake checks you usually hit the back of them and then no penalty is indicated at all.

I can report something maybe interesting. I was in a Daily and final straight, 5th place. 50 yards before the finish line dude in 4th slams his brakes on and of course I go WHAM giving him a massive shunt over the line. I wont repeat my outburst here expecting another orange SR....then results come up and Im 4th?!? Dude was down in 8th. He ended with a 7 second penalty. I had a red SR S at the end.
Of course it's possible he slammed his brakes on to lose that penalty but why so late? There was the usual dirty racing all the way through (hence my original post)

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I too have had a fair few idiots ruining it. I’m currently struggling to get my head round how I end up with a 10 sec penalty when I have been blasted from behind.
I have 2 possible solutions for the online. Firstly surely they could force any penalties to be taken within a time limit thus stopping people running them down over several laps which may help a little. Secondly why not polyphony have people actually within races looking out for those that blatantly in there ruining it, it’s a bit of a stretch but possibly then banning these plonkers for a period of time wether this is possible, I don’t know but it’s a thought

 

[pedrocor]

I feel the same.

Don't consider a fast driver, but try to run clean. I been a "B" at SR, upgraded to "A" after a good clean race at Suzuka, in the first "official"race at Gr.B.
But, as I was expecting a very enjoyable clean race against upperclass sportsmanship wise drivers, had a outrageous race at Interlagos, yesterday.
I qualified badly (19th), not having a clean qualifying lap, some mistakes but also some people who kept blocking lines after their one mistakes.
In the race, another "gift" from PD, I started miles away behind 18th (literally, exactly 4 secs behind on the line), stat gaining some positions until 16th, when I was against three other racer, all on Mercs SLS, who is bloody fast on straight line and kept pushing me off track on turns.
Completelly screwed race, kept thinking on quitting the race too.
I didn't, let's see how it goes today.

 

[shardlojik]

I would like to know why PD decided to start everybody in SR:B, because I just can't see why they wouldn't put everybody into E to begin with, like with the DR. Obviously the bad drivers will drop down to C and so on, but for someone to recover from C back into B, only to find some newbie causing havoc, is hardly fair.

Me too! I would have thought it would start at least in C. Though your idea of E also has some merit. Mind you, as everyone starts as B, it's going to be carnage for a few days after Christmas!

 

[Never2fast1]

Same, I've been brake checked and neither of us got a penalty. That's why they do it, stop you passing and get zero penalties.

The system just seems to give penalties to cars on the outside regardless of who caused the bumping/crash, with brake checks you usually hit the back of them and then no penalty is indicated at all.

I had an experience last night on Blue Moon where a car hit the outside wall and then bounced into me and I got an SR penalty. And no I didn't run him up the wall, I was 2 cars away until he bounced off the wall and hit me. He was the guy on the outside, I was on the inside.

I watched the replay like 3 times to try to see if I did something wrong but couldn't find it. Some times I will watch the replay and go, whoops I was at fault, but sometimes I can not see where I did something wrong.

It is so frustrating when you get penalties for things outside your control.