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- tombrookscomms
I would love to see him at Williams, they're my favourite team.
The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10
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I would love to see him at Williams, they're my favourite team.
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- haitch40
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Lewis would lower his demands over getting the boot unless another top team offered him a drive I think.
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- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
Hamilton is arrogant, but he has enough sense to take a paycut if it means saving his race seat at McLaren, which is the best he can really do right now. McLaren is one of the safest places he can be if he want's to keep challenging for championships. Bar 2006, McLaren hasn't had a winless season since 1996.
It's between Senna and Bottas.
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It's a question of whether or not McLaren want him, though. If Hamilton is taking too long to decide and/or if McLaren feel there is a real chance they might lose him, then they might cut their losses and start talking to someone else. They have to take the best two drivers available to them at any given time, but that doesn't always mean they get the best drivers. It happen in 2008 when Alonso left the team very late, and they didn't have a whole lot of choice. Kovalainen was okay, but he was out of his depth. He'd be better now that he has some experience to his name, but McLaren will want to avoid a situation where Hamilton leaves the team late and they are forced to choose between the lesser of two evils. They may start talking to others just to get Hamilton to make up his mind sooner, putting him in a position where he has to make a choice. If he joins the team, great. If not, McLaren will still have a strong driver to fall back on, even if they aren't the team's first choice for the seat.
There is also a rumour that Hamilton only wants a one-year deal, so that he could move to Red Bull/Ferrari/Lotus/whoever takes your fancy in 2014. If true, it definately won't go over well with McLaren. At the very least, they'll want a multi-year deal out of him; probably two years with an option on a third (or three years with an option). They want stability, and if Hamilton won't or can't commit, then they're not going to want to keep him around.
There is also a rumour that Hamilton only wants a one-year deal, so that he could move to Red Bull/Ferrari/Lotus/whoever takes your fancy in 2014. If true, it definately won't go over well with McLaren. At the very least, they'll want a multi-year deal out of him; probably two years with an option on a third (or three years with an option). They want stability, and if Hamilton won't or can't commit, then they're not going to want to keep him around.
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That depends on the circumstances surrounding Hamilton's departure. If it were to happen, then from McLaren's point of view, sooner is always better.
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- Bye_Ya
Yeah, because who is really at Lewis's level to replace him? They might save money on wages if he goes, but they'd also take a step down in driver class until someone else emerges, or other big-name contracts expire. I think a 1-year deal might be on the cards, depending on what seats will open after next season.
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Did you not read what I said? McLaren probably won't accept a one-year deal from Hamilton. They'll want a multi-year contract, because there is no telling who will be available in 2014. Why should McLaren offer Hamilton a one-year deal with the team, knowing that he will leave at the end of 2013? They'd be better off making a play for Perez or trying to steal Grosjean away from Lotus.
Sure, Hamilton is the best driver available to them. But a driver's ability to get result straight away isn't the only thing a team looks for. McLaren are front-runners, and will want someone who they can invest in for years to come. If Hamilton only wants to do one year with McLaren so that he can shop around for seats in twelve months' time, why on earth should McLaren humour him? They're going to need to replace him sooner or later, so why not do it sooner and get over the shock if having a new driver - it always takes time for someone to settle into a team - so that when the new regulations come into effect in 2014, their new driver is fully settled within the team and can get results straight away?
Sure, Hamilton is the best driver available to them. But a driver's ability to get result straight away isn't the only thing a team looks for. McLaren are front-runners, and will want someone who they can invest in for years to come. If Hamilton only wants to do one year with McLaren so that he can shop around for seats in twelve months' time, why on earth should McLaren humour him? They're going to need to replace him sooner or later, so why not do it sooner and get over the shock if having a new driver - it always takes time for someone to settle into a team - so that when the new regulations come into effect in 2014, their new driver is fully settled within the team and can get results straight away?
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- Bye_Ya
I guess I just don't see a need for them to replace him, unless his wage demands are really that outrageous. Keeping him on with another longer-term contract may work in their favor, depending on how is relationship with Jenson really is. It could motivate both drivers to really invest themselves in the team and work together, if their heads are in the right place and they decide on this for the future.
And just because what you said might seem logical at the moment, doesn't necessarily mean that F1 tends to work that way. I mean, it's F1 after all... but I understand your point of view. Of course there is also the Vodafone speculation. Where is that at currently?
And just because what you said might seem logical at the moment, doesn't necessarily mean that F1 tends to work that way. I mean, it's F1 after all... but I understand your point of view. Of course there is also the Vodafone speculation. Where is that at currently?
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It's only been a few days since those rumours first broke. And it's really a case of which source you believe is the lesser evil.
On the one hand, you have Pitpass, who claim that Coca-Cola has been researching Formula 1 for a month now, and that their head of global sports and entertainment marketing is personally involved in the project.
On the other hand, you have Joe Saward, who thinks the notion is ridiculous because of the contract between McLaren and GlaxoSmithKline - who have a presence on the MP4-27 through Lucozade (a sports drink like Powerade and Gatorade) - and that this isn't the first time rumours of Coca-Cola entering Formula 1 have come up.
Pitpass has a poor reputation among Formula 1 fans; the site is Bernie's favourite outlet for "news", which is actually him playing the political game with whichever team or circuit isn't doing what he wants them to. Saward, however, used to have a really good reputation, but then embarrassed himself with a few stupid stunts aimed at attacking Vijay Mallya, and really lost a lot of credibility.
Perhaps the most interesting angle here is Will Buxton, who covers GP2 and GP3 for SPEED. GP2 team Scuderia Coloni recently had a falling-out with the series organisers and will leave the championship at the end of 2012. They will also forefeit all of the points they have scored and will score this year, and will not receive prize money. Evidently, something serious has happened. What few details we have beyond that have come from Will Buxton, who reported that the falling-out centred on a "breach of trust" between Coloni and the other teams. That's more than anyone else has been able to find out, so I'm willing to see what he has to say on Vodafone and McLaren. That said, he hasn't had anything to say about it for two weeks, but this is what he put on Twitter:
It's possible that Vodafone will see out the contract until the end of 2014 and simply not renew it, but I've also heard that they were upset about the logos appearing on the car in Bahrain, and tried (but failed, due to the nature of the contract) to have them removed. I've further heard that they aren't confident that a race in Bahrain in 2013 can go ahead without the same level of controversy, and may terminate the contract early if Bahrain is on the 2013 calender.
But right now, it's all rumour and speculation.
On the one hand, you have Pitpass, who claim that Coca-Cola has been researching Formula 1 for a month now, and that their head of global sports and entertainment marketing is personally involved in the project.
On the other hand, you have Joe Saward, who thinks the notion is ridiculous because of the contract between McLaren and GlaxoSmithKline - who have a presence on the MP4-27 through Lucozade (a sports drink like Powerade and Gatorade) - and that this isn't the first time rumours of Coca-Cola entering Formula 1 have come up.
Pitpass has a poor reputation among Formula 1 fans; the site is Bernie's favourite outlet for "news", which is actually him playing the political game with whichever team or circuit isn't doing what he wants them to. Saward, however, used to have a really good reputation, but then embarrassed himself with a few stupid stunts aimed at attacking Vijay Mallya, and really lost a lot of credibility.
Perhaps the most interesting angle here is Will Buxton, who covers GP2 and GP3 for SPEED. GP2 team Scuderia Coloni recently had a falling-out with the series organisers and will leave the championship at the end of 2012. They will also forefeit all of the points they have scored and will score this year, and will not receive prize money. Evidently, something serious has happened. What few details we have beyond that have come from Will Buxton, who reported that the falling-out centred on a "breach of trust" between Coloni and the other teams. That's more than anyone else has been able to find out, so I'm willing to see what he has to say on Vodafone and McLaren. That said, he hasn't had anything to say about it for two weeks, but this is what he put on Twitter:
That's all.
It's possible that Vodafone will see out the contract until the end of 2014 and simply not renew it, but I've also heard that they were upset about the logos appearing on the car in Bahrain, and tried (but failed, due to the nature of the contract) to have them removed. I've further heard that they aren't confident that a race in Bahrain in 2013 can go ahead without the same level of controversy, and may terminate the contract early if Bahrain is on the 2013 calender.
But right now, it's all rumour and speculation.
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- gdwest1
Well, those and F1.
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- Ardius_
Where else can he go though? He has to realise going to any other team (which is very unlikely to be Ferrari or Red Bull at this time) would be more hard work than McLaren.
He missed the boat on getting a contract elsewhere. If I was him I would have been negogiating for a pre-contract at Ferrari or Red Bull last year, not leaving it till now - the seats are already gone.
Unless he is going to Ferrari which would be bloody amazing.
I can't see Williams, Lotus or Mercedes being able to afford him and provide what he wants. Williams are having a great year but its no certainty that it will continue - plus they don't currently have the money to pay for Hamilton.
Lotus are the same, mostly funded by Genii who own them.
Mercedes have a bit more money but really are struggling to build a decent car again, typical for that team really (they've always continually built gradually mediocre cars after building a great one).
Anyone else is obviously out of the question. I'd love to see him take a pay cut, jump in at Williams and drive them to a WDC or WCC. Teammates with Alonso at Ferrari would also be awesome to see. But I think he's just going to sign with McLaren again and have another boringly up and down season again.
I'd also like to see him move just to see who McLaren go for with their second seat.
He missed the boat on getting a contract elsewhere. If I was him I would have been negogiating for a pre-contract at Ferrari or Red Bull last year, not leaving it till now - the seats are already gone.
Unless he is going to Ferrari which would be bloody amazing.
I can't see Williams, Lotus or Mercedes being able to afford him and provide what he wants. Williams are having a great year but its no certainty that it will continue - plus they don't currently have the money to pay for Hamilton.
Lotus are the same, mostly funded by Genii who own them.
Mercedes have a bit more money but really are struggling to build a decent car again, typical for that team really (they've always continually built gradually mediocre cars after building a great one).
Anyone else is obviously out of the question. I'd love to see him take a pay cut, jump in at Williams and drive them to a WDC or WCC. Teammates with Alonso at Ferrari would also be awesome to see. But I think he's just going to sign with McLaren again and have another boringly up and down season again.
I'd also like to see him move just to see who McLaren go for with their second seat.
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- Bye_Ya
I see him signing a new deal with McLaren, to be honest. It's not like they aren't competitive. At the start of every year you always have them in contention to have the car to beat, so I don't know what more you can ask of a team than that. This year the race is very tight, and I don't see a team change really altering his current situation anyway.
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Turun Sanomat is reporting that Sauber are chasing Heikki Kovalainen.
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- astrosdude91
So if Kovalainen goes to Sauber, and Perez goes to Ferrari like everyone is expecting. Then Alexander Rossi to replace Kovalainen at Caterham?
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The article suggests that Sauber could replace both their drivers. Apparently they're unhappy with Kobayashi and Perez both failing to capitalise on the C31's performance. There's no guarantee either of their current drivers will go anywhere.
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- bramturismo
Am I the only one thinking that Kobayashi and Perez are both a dreamteam of drivers for Sauber to have?
I mean, they are no stars of the sport. But talent both have for sure, and I see them do great things for Sauber if Sauber keeps their development going. If I were a team manager at such a new and young team as Sauber, the last thing I'd want to do right now is to replace either of the current drivers.
I mean, they are no stars of the sport. But talent both have for sure, and I see them do great things for Sauber if Sauber keeps their development going. If I were a team manager at such a new and young team as Sauber, the last thing I'd want to do right now is to replace either of the current drivers.
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A little more on the McLaren - Vodafone talks.
I'm not on twitter myself, but a week ago Jenson Button shared a picture asking about American marketing and if it would help the sport's image for more American companies to sponsor teams. The picture was 3 liveries, changed to make an American company the new title sponsor for 3 teams. They were the Rockstar Sauber, Monster Mercedes and... Coca-Cola McLaren.
The question may be invalid and it was probably a fake Jenson Button account, but it would have had to start somewhere and is a touch coincidental. I suspect it was a fake account, but it appeared on Facebook along with anything else any of the friends' of my friends' once liked....
I'm not on twitter myself, but a week ago Jenson Button shared a picture asking about American marketing and if it would help the sport's image for more American companies to sponsor teams. The picture was 3 liveries, changed to make an American company the new title sponsor for 3 teams. They were the Rockstar Sauber, Monster Mercedes and... Coca-Cola McLaren.
The question may be invalid and it was probably a fake Jenson Button account, but it would have had to start somewhere and is a touch coincidental. I suspect it was a fake account, but it appeared on Facebook along with anything else any of the friends' of my friends' once liked....
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- MattyTheDog
^Im on Twitter, I'll go and investigate that.
Edit: nothing like that from the real Button.
Edit: nothing like that from the real Button.
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Valtteri Bottas says "I'm ready" for a race seat.
Yeah, thre's no way the real Button would have posted something like that.
Perhaps that has something to do with his general underperformance of late?
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- GTP_TheCracker
I'd imagine that both Kobayashi and Perez are paying drivers (NEC & TelMex sponsorship) Does Kovalainen bring any sponsorship with him?
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- GTP_ZippyCat
Also his lack of any marketing fizz. He's of no use to an F1 team on that front in Japan; biz-news reports are very consistent that performance cars and racing in general face declining interest and consumer demand in the Japanese domestic market. Given those things he'd have to be lights-outs in the car to hold the seat and he was anything but that even before almost killing a few of his pit crew at Silverstone.
On the flip side, I can't see the reason for any discontent with Perez. He's still a driver on the rise.
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- Kimky
Hamilton going to Williams maybe ? I dont see him going to Ferrari, Alonso and him had a pretty rough year when they were both driving together and I dont think Alonso would want to drive with him again and since he's the boss at ferrari now well yeah ^^
I'm not sure Massa will stay tho but again I'm not sure Alonso wants competition in his team, sure someone that could bring point would be welcome but I'm pretty sure he wants to stay n° 1.
Now there's something I'm thinking, this is purely speculation and dont work wiht what I said up here but what you think about that : Vettel not too happy with the redbull this year and he already said that he would love to drive to Ferrari, so maybe he'll move there, Hamilton to Red Bull and someone to Mclaren. I dont really think it will happen but you never know.
As for Kobayashi, well I quite like agressive driver like him so for me he have his spot but what happen in Silverstone have a huge impact. People start to talk badly about him now while before there was very few negative comment about him. So yeah maybe the wind have change for him and he'll get kicked but I still like him.
I'm not sure Massa will stay tho but again I'm not sure Alonso wants competition in his team, sure someone that could bring point would be welcome but I'm pretty sure he wants to stay n° 1.
Now there's something I'm thinking, this is purely speculation and dont work wiht what I said up here but what you think about that : Vettel not too happy with the redbull this year and he already said that he would love to drive to Ferrari, so maybe he'll move there, Hamilton to Red Bull and someone to Mclaren. I dont really think it will happen but you never know.
As for Kobayashi, well I quite like agressive driver like him so for me he have his spot but what happen in Silverstone have a huge impact. People start to talk badly about him now while before there was very few negative comment about him. So yeah maybe the wind have change for him and he'll get kicked but I still like him.
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- Ardius_
Eh, Peter Sauber has shown no remorse in the past when it comes to drivers so I wouldn't be surprised. Nor am I surprised he feels both drivers haven't delivered the potential of the car. The car clearly could challenge for podiums fairly regularly if things fell the right way..but as we have seen with Lotus you need more than a good car to get the results. You need some luck too.
However, if you start to look deeper into both drivers' careers and watch each race personally I find that neither driver has under-performed at all.
First of all, Perez is only in his second year of F1. Perhaps its easy to forget that due to the quality of rookies these days but lets be fair he's going to make the odd mistake either due to pressure or lack of general experience.
Secondly, Perez has hardly made that many bad mistakes really. Its easy to think how many retirements he's had but when you consider some have not been his fault (e.g. two Pastor incidents this year) then you start to wonder where he's going wrong. The answer? He's not.
Then on to Kobayashi. I've trumpeted my opinion on him before so I won't ramble. But I only ask people go back and watch each race before writing him off as inconsistent or erratic. He does struggle for qualifying pace from time to time but generally he delivers the car's pace and he does it reliably and consistently..on top of that he pulls off those overtaking moves. Generally the reason he doesn't have the results to match the skills is due to Sauber putting him on the poorer strategy half of the time (or last year where Sauber put both him and Perez on 1-stoppers every fricking race).
Personally I think Sauber have under-performed for their drivers, not the other way around. Both Kobayashi and Perez have shown the potential to pull out a race win if they get the chance. But they also both show they can perform relatively consistently and carry out different strategies in both wet and dry conditions. That alone is enough to warrant a seat at the very least in a midfield team.
Especially when some people bang on about drivers like Sutil, Liuzzi, Heidfeld, etc who generally disappointed except in certain circumstances (and I say that as a fan of Heidfeld
As much as I like Kovalainen, I'm not sure he's really bringing all that much to Sauber. I would be very amused to see Gutierrez get a chance too seeing he's been shockingly erratic in GP2 (although GP2 doesn't always translate to F1 as we saw with Kobayashi).
However, if you start to look deeper into both drivers' careers and watch each race personally I find that neither driver has under-performed at all.
First of all, Perez is only in his second year of F1. Perhaps its easy to forget that due to the quality of rookies these days but lets be fair he's going to make the odd mistake either due to pressure or lack of general experience.
Secondly, Perez has hardly made that many bad mistakes really. Its easy to think how many retirements he's had but when you consider some have not been his fault (e.g. two Pastor incidents this year) then you start to wonder where he's going wrong. The answer? He's not.
Then on to Kobayashi. I've trumpeted my opinion on him before so I won't ramble. But I only ask people go back and watch each race before writing him off as inconsistent or erratic. He does struggle for qualifying pace from time to time but generally he delivers the car's pace and he does it reliably and consistently..on top of that he pulls off those overtaking moves. Generally the reason he doesn't have the results to match the skills is due to Sauber putting him on the poorer strategy half of the time (or last year where Sauber put both him and Perez on 1-stoppers every fricking race).
Personally I think Sauber have under-performed for their drivers, not the other way around. Both Kobayashi and Perez have shown the potential to pull out a race win if they get the chance. But they also both show they can perform relatively consistently and carry out different strategies in both wet and dry conditions. That alone is enough to warrant a seat at the very least in a midfield team.
Especially when some people bang on about drivers like Sutil, Liuzzi, Heidfeld, etc who generally disappointed except in certain circumstances (and I say that as a fan of Heidfeld
As much as I like Kovalainen, I'm not sure he's really bringing all that much to Sauber. I would be very amused to see Gutierrez get a chance too seeing he's been shockingly erratic in GP2 (although GP2 doesn't always translate to F1 as we saw with Kobayashi).
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- gdwest1
All Jenson Button tweets is "Thanks for the Support" and "I just ran for a long time"
Kovalainen brings an entire country (which to my knowledge) isn't sponsoring anything in F1. I'm sure he could rustle up something if he needed to. Doesn't he have a personal thing with Angry Birds?
I think we could see Perez at Williams. They like money, Perez is better than Senna. Makes sense.
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Except that Perez is tied up in his Ferrari contract. Ferrari could easily encourage Sauber to keep him for another year, and as ruthless as he can be, Peter Sauber is also pretty wise. He knows that changing both his drivers in one go is a bad idea, because the team will lack continuity.
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- ProtoApocalpse
Ii see a driver exchange between Massa and Perez but i still prefer Massa over Perez. He is coming alive now. Finally the car is good, even Alonso backed him up on it. When u have a bad car its hard even for. Good driver and then we have Alonso on a team who signed him and will support him first before anybody else. He is the number one driver. Ferrari is showing a great potential now and red bull better watch out, they are coming.
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