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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96573 Feels unreal... I have never expected the Kimi rumours to amount to anything real...
The 2012 Driver transfer discussion/speculation thread
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csmeteora9
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Didn't see that one coming.
So six world champions will line up next year at Melbourne, or so it seems at the moment. A record, I believe? Anyhow, if Kimi has rediscovered his motivation and Kubica returns, Renault (or Lotus, even) could have a very promising year ahead. Also depends on the car, however.
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- 3,915
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- gdwest1
Wow. Never mind for that one...
Does anyone know if he'll get more than a test seat though?
Didn't see that one coming.
Kubica and Raikkonen has to potential to either be Very Amazing, seeing that they're both pretty good, or pretty poor since neither one of them has driven an F1 car lately...
I do hope that Kimi doesnt pull a Schumacher/Lance Armstrong and come back and do not as well as everyone expects...
MagpieRacer
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Who is expecting him to do well? He did rubbish in 2009. I mean yeah 4 podiums or whatever but look at his non podium results.
Cant help but think Lotus are shooting themselves in the foot here, the likes of Grosjean, Senna, Wickens etc, and they choose a washed up world champion who failed to make his mark in WRC?
Cant help but think Lotus are shooting themselves in the foot here, the likes of Grosjean, Senna, Wickens etc, and they choose a washed up world champion who failed to make his mark in WRC?
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Once again Bruno Senna gets screwed. He really doesn't deserve being the victim a gamble like this, especially when I can see Kimi getting really disinterested if he's given a car that's as average as this year's Renault has been.
Seismica
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I think PM should eat his hat
It's good news, but disappointing knowing Kubica won't be back. Even when Raikkonen was in form, Kubica > Raikkonen.
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Senna doesn't deserve the drive, he's been beat by Petrov most races, Heidfeld was better than Senna.
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GOTMAXPOWER
True then why did Hiedfeld get dropped then? Maybe under performing perhaps
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Petrov is on a full championship drive, Senna gets in mid season and is quickly on pace. Who is clearly the best of the two?
I think people ask from Senna much more than from anyone else. The impossible really.
Anyway, I think Petrov is secure in the team so it is most probably Senna the one being shown the door.
I just hope he gets a decent midfield seat (Williams the most obviously available, but again Barrichelo will be in the way, as it happened in Brawn's year). If he doesn't, he better fly over to the USA (easier option) or find a works WEC team, he is a more than capable Sports Car driver with prior Le Mans and ELMS experience (with Oreca if I'm not mistaken).
I think people ask from Senna much more than from anyone else. The impossible really.
Anyway, I think Petrov is secure in the team so it is most probably Senna the one being shown the door.
I just hope he gets a decent midfield seat (Williams the most obviously available, but again Barrichelo will be in the way, as it happened in Brawn's year). If he doesn't, he better fly over to the USA (easier option) or find a works WEC team, he is a more than capable Sports Car driver with prior Le Mans and ELMS experience (with Oreca if I'm not mistaken).
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- astrosdude91
Great to see the Ice Man back on the grid. Hopefully Lotus will produce a good car for him!
So now that Raikkonen has signed with Lotus, what will become of that Williams seat? Will Sutil take it maybe? And where will Bruno end up?
In other news, according to SPEED, both Jaime Squire and Nico Hulkenberg have strongly hinted that they know they'll be on the grid next year.
So now that Raikkonen has signed with Lotus, what will become of that Williams seat? Will Sutil take it maybe? And where will Bruno end up?
In other news, according to SPEED, both Jaime Squire and Nico Hulkenberg have strongly hinted that they know they'll be on the grid next year.
csmeteora9
(Banned)
- 155
Me also. Although I never took much interest in Kimi, he certainly was an exciting racer, so I have nothing against him. Fingers crossed he has a good season.
As you say, I can't see Petrov being shown the door. We must remember the substantial backing that he brings to Renault/Lotus. Finance is seemingly a key area of focus for them currently, and besides, Vitaly is a decent enough driver.
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I think PM should eat his hat
It's good news, but disappointing knowing Kubica won't be back. Even when Raikkonen was in form, Kubica > Raikkonen.
Don't be ridiculous. Kubica was great, but maybe you should think back to the 2005 Japanese Grand Prix before making comments like that.
On his day, Raikkonen was better than everyone. Too bad that he was inconsistent. He could have easily been a three time world champion too. Remember that.
Seismica
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Raikkonen had the best car in 2005, it was just too unreliable. He is a great driver, I didn't question that.
I think Kubica was the best driver in F1 last year, and one of the best in the sport for a long time.
It's interesting, I was under the impression that the 'second seat' was the one left by the absent Kubica. According to Autosport, as you say, Petrov's seat is at risk. Senna may be able to match anything Vitaly brings sponsorship wise so Renault have a difficult decision to make. I expect the decision to be made mainly on performance as they will be ousted when Kubica is fit anyway, unless they're challenging for the WDC which is unlikely considering their form this season and last.
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Seismica
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Not even close.
Kimi Raikkonen is amazing driver probably naturally most talented driver
Well, everybody has their own opinion. Raikkonen has had more chance to prove himself. I raise that video with this:
and this:
It doesn't matter which is better. If Kubica comes back while Raikkonen is still with the team, it will be hands down the best driver pairing on the grid, even better than Hamilton/Button in my opinion.
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Seismica
I agree with that
- 563
Kimi Raikkonen was crap in Ferrari and not treated properly. He never played politics like other drivers who try to build team towards them and change the car accordingly. His talent was wasted. You should see Kimi of Mclaren Mercedes days 
Monaco 2005 pole for example. 10 fastest lap in 2005 and equalled MS record. He is number 3 in all time fastest lap in F1 I think. SPA 2004 amazing win. He also won in 2005, 2007, 2008 nearly before Hamilton tried to pass him and he lost the car in last lap. He won in 2009 as well with Ferrari.
Monaco 2005 pole for example. 10 fastest lap in 2005 and equalled MS record. He is number 3 in all time fastest lap in F1 I think. SPA 2004 amazing win. He also won in 2005, 2007, 2008 nearly before Hamilton tried to pass him and he lost the car in last lap. He won in 2009 as well with Ferrari.
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- 5,196
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Well I've never been a fan of Raikkonen but yes both drivers are great. Raikkonen and Kubica both has shown what they all are capable of doing.
I may not known much about Raikkonen but his best season was probably the 2005. He fought with Alonso for the whole season with an unreliable car and that boost in Japan from what, 17th place to a win was spectacular.
Kubica has also shown what he can do behind the wheel. A podium in Monza 2006 after only his 3rd race in Formula 1. How he get back to speed in 2007 after a monster crash. How he blasted off with the BMW F1.08. How he got the rubbish BMW F1.09 into a 3rd place finish in Brazil. How he fought in that Renault R30 and as shown in Spa that he could've got a race victory last year. He has everything that it takes to be the best of the best...
If we're seeing Kubica and Raikkonen as team mates, I think we'll be seeing constant fight just like Button and Lewis on track rather than Vettel and Webber or perhaps the most obvious of Alonso and Massa. I think that's down to the teams eh?
Surely in his first season, not getting used to the car yet with much more developed KERS system and DRS aaand the Pirelli tyres aaaaaand heavy fuel run so he will have a lot of work to do. I'd expect his first season to be of Schumacher's in 2010. That Renault is falling behind, until they get rid of the front blowing exhaust, I think the car would be as fast as a Force India etc. Let the game begins!
I may not known much about Raikkonen but his best season was probably the 2005. He fought with Alonso for the whole season with an unreliable car and that boost in Japan from what, 17th place to a win was spectacular.
Kubica has also shown what he can do behind the wheel. A podium in Monza 2006 after only his 3rd race in Formula 1. How he get back to speed in 2007 after a monster crash. How he blasted off with the BMW F1.08. How he got the rubbish BMW F1.09 into a 3rd place finish in Brazil. How he fought in that Renault R30 and as shown in Spa that he could've got a race victory last year. He has everything that it takes to be the best of the best...
If we're seeing Kubica and Raikkonen as team mates, I think we'll be seeing constant fight just like Button and Lewis on track rather than Vettel and Webber or perhaps the most obvious of Alonso and Massa. I think that's down to the teams eh?
Surely in his first season, not getting used to the car yet with much more developed KERS system and DRS aaand the Pirelli tyres aaaaaand heavy fuel run so he will have a lot of work to do. I'd expect his first season to be of Schumacher's in 2010. That Renault is falling behind, until they get rid of the front blowing exhaust, I think the car would be as fast as a Force India etc. Let the game begins!
The Outlaw
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As I've said before, Senna hasn't done too bad all things considered and has occasionally made Petrov look pretty rubbish - thats more than Heidfeld managed even if no where near as consistent.
With some testing and with this half-season behind him, perhaps Bruno could be a much better driver without the rustiness? Problem is, thats a question involving "perhaps", not a statement of fact.
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Petrov. Senna might be the better qualifier, but Petrov frequently out-races him. Weren't you watching in Brazil? Petrov started fifteenth and scored a World Championship point. Senna started ninth, caused a collision and got a drive-through penalty. He's got a very bad habit of finishing lower than where he starts.
Anyway, Renault have given Petrov until December 10 to decide if he wants to stay with the team. From the sounds of things, they're happy to have him, but he has to make up his mind if he wants to stay. He has said in the past week or so that Renault is his preferred option, but he has a few back-up plans at the ready, just in case.
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4th gear.
Senna has had far less seat time and is relatively rusty when it comes to driving competitively at the front. 2008 was the last time Senna was under this kind of scrutiny.
The fact that Senna even appeared faster at times than Petrov reflects more on Petrov's ability than it does Senna's.
Senna can only improve with more time to be consistent. I can't remember if it was Anthony Davidson or Martin Brundle who said this but:
"A team wants an inconsistently fast driver more than a consistently slow driver. You can help smooth out and improve the consistencey of a driver, but you can very rarely make them faster".
Lets analyse Senna's season:
Belgium:
Crashed on Friday but qualified 7th, 1.1 seconds faster than Petrov. Screwed up the first corner but ran consistently the rest of the race.
Italy:
0.6 seconds slower than Petrov in qualy but made Q3, suffered damage in the first corner but scored points after a solid run.
Singapore:
1.1 seconds faster than Petrov in qualy and outpaced Petrov all weekend.
Japan:
Crashed in saturday practice but matched Petrov in qualy and both made Q3. Made a bad start and supposedly lost downforce due debris build up.
Korea:
Had a miserable weekend, 6 tenths off Petrov in qualy and lapped in the race.
India:
3 tenths slower than Petrov in qualy but ran up in 9th in the race. Suffered KERS problems.
Abu Dhabi:
1 tenth slower than Petrov in qualy but had his lap 1 hard tyre pit strategy ruined by a debatable blue flag infringement.
Looked like steady improvement to me mired by the car suffering from poor development, the odd KERS problem and his own rustiness behind the wheel. I think its enough to say there is potential though I will agree right now that Petrov is a better deal though Senna has a chance.
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I don't think he lost fourth gear until after he clashed with Schumacher. And if he did, well, everyone else (except Hamilton) whose gearbox caught the 'flu managed it okay.
Petrov have had two full seasons at Renault. Senna had to jump in mid-season.
It was quite a while after the accident with Schumacher, if I remember correctly and he lost fourth gear on up-shift only.
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Really?
Bruno was well on track to points up to his collision. After outqualifying your dear Vitaly by several tenths of a second. If it wasn't for the collision and penalty, he would have surely brought home some points.
You're always finding a way to criticize Bruno at every corner, literally, when he's doing a fine job considering that he jumped into the car mid season with little to no experience with KERS, DRS or Pirellis.
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