The 2012 Driver transfer discussion/speculation thread

  • Thread starter F1 fan
  • 1,927 comments
  • 117,624 views
Status
Not open for further replies.
I hope to see Hulkenberg and Di Resta at Force India in a competitive car (Up with Renault/Lotus and Merc) and just see whats what as far as the next generation of drivers.
 
YellowG1
So I've heard (though I wouldn't be surprised if the investigation goes nowhere)... Better is arguable. Though it's been said before, it's comical that Petrov finished the year with 37 points and Heidfeld with 34.
Click to expand...
Huh? Did you not notice the massive overall improvement from Petrov between 2010 and 2011? He put the Renault R31 into Q3 on every occasion where Q3 was possible (which is more than can be said for his team-mates) when qualifying was a problem for him in 2010. He also out-raced his team-mates more frequently than they out-raced him. How is it "comical" that Petrov only scored three more points than Heidfeld? The R31 was not a very good car by the end of the season. It simply wasn't capable of scoring anything but minor placings. Even then, the handful of points Petrov scored in the second half of the season were instrumental in defending Renault's fifth place in the constructor standings from Force India - they only beat Force India by four points in the end, and they have Vitaly Petrov to thank for that.
 
prisonermonkeys
Huh? Did you not notice the massive overall improvement from Petrov between 2010 and 2011? He put the Renault R31 into Q3 on every occasion where Q3 was possible (which is more than can be said for his team-mates) when qualifying was a problem for him in 2010.
Click to expand...

Q3 Brasil. 1 Renault, not Petrov's. In the last race of his second full season with the team.
 
Hun200kmh
Q3 Brasil. 1 Renault, not Petrov's. In the last race of his second full season with the team.
Click to expand...
Fair point.

But look at the race results - one Renault in the points, one Renault in seventeenth. One Renault gained more positions (+5) over the course of the race than anyone (except Kamui Kobayashi), while the other Renault suffered the biggest loss of positions (-8) of anyone to finish the race.

Petrov scored points after starting outside the top ten. Bruno Senna just went backwards from ninth on the grid.
 
The Outlaw
IMO, I don't see how Petrov (I am a rather big critic of him) really did any better in his rookie season on the whole (having a GREAT car only gave him cover from criticism in my view), yet I saw so many people saying that he should be given a second year to prove himself...yet what has he really done this year, other than proving to be a mediocre driver that should probably be driving in one of the lower teams (if things were based on driving merit alone). The fact that he has had this comfortable seat at LRGP for 2 years, while so many others (Sutil, Barichello, Di Resta, Hulkenburg, Alguesuari, Buemi, etc.) have had to fight tooth and nail just to stay in F1, let alone for one of the top teams, only annoys me further :lol:
Click to expand...
Well hasn't his qualifying form improved notably this season? Or is it just me? Also I've noticed fewer mistakes. Anyhow, last years Renault, although competitive, it was only seriously competitive in the hands of a driver capable of extracting the maximum from it at all times. In other words, Kubica. Petrov was, and is not. Although on his day, Vitaly would also perform well. While this year, the Renault's true form was never exposed. Unfortunately, we never saw it raced by Kubica, who would have pushed the car beyond it's limits. One thing is certain however, the Renault was only fast initially. After the first few races Renault began slipping behind. Although quick at some circuits, it's performance was incredibly inconsistent. I'd say last years Renault had more pace, in terms of comparing competitiveness with the rest of the field. Despite this however, Petrov has managed to finish in the top ten quite regularly, albeit quite often in the lower half. But then the midfield has been extremely competitive this season. Also, I haven't noticed much drop off in his pace along with the car's declining competitiveness. Of course, I could be wrong but that is where I, personally, have seen improvement. :)

Ardius
Not this again. Maldonado intentionally hit or at least tried to spook Hamilton.
Click to expand...

LMSCorvetteGT2
He purposely hit Hamilton at Spa? Does that not compute with you?
Click to expand...
I apologize, however this happened to be the only video of the incident I could come across...

Having observed this incident for the first time in months, I realize, it slightly differentiates from how I remembered it. Although watching this only reinforces my belief it was an unintentional collision. How I see it? Hamilton lifts off the accelerator, so Maldonado, not in the mood for waiting, decides to pass. However, he misjudged the rate at which Lewis had decelerated, and pulled back across too early; mistakenly believing he had cleared the McLaren. In my opinion, that is all that occurred. An error of misjudgment, on Maldonado's behalf. Honestly, I can't see Maldonado pulling over sharply on Lewis. No matter how many times I watch it. Still, we'll never know for sure if it was REALLY a deliberate action or otherwise. As like you, Lewis and the FIA, can only speak and act upon what they THINK happened. Never can they know for sure what was actually on Maldonado's mind at that point, if anything at all. It'd be great if we were able to mind read to discover the truth, unfortunately however, this isn't possible...yet! :mischievous: :lol:
 
Last edited:
Really man, do you have to use RED of all colours? I'm sure you've got some interesting opinions, but I'll be damned if I can stomach reading your posts!
 
Better than that dude using gold first letters then bold black for his text to match his pony-idiot avatar.
 
Point is the red lights were out and the session was over, Pastor doing another rookie move that you'd think he could understand by now and then decided to go run a fast lap though the session as I said was over. This was probably also part of the judgement to give Pastor a penalty. CS I have to say I don't know what Pastor was thinking and since I don't I can't fully say that he did it on purpose.

@PM: I agree with you, Petrov has come quite a distance from last year, especially a nice podium to start the year and even if he didn't qualify good it was very rare for him to not move up during race day. The car was crap and Renault have said that to some extent, the front exhaust killed the car among other things and if they'd gone with a normal exhaust setting I think that would have done the trick and given them a run against fourth place Merc GP.
 
peter_vod69
Really man, do you have to use RED of all colours? I'm sure you've got some interesting opinions, but I'll be damned if I can stomach reading your posts!
Click to expand...
Since my whole post is in red, as with all my posts so far, it is not for the purpose of highlighting opinions. No, the reason I used red was so it was easier for me to spot my own posts within a thread. Since it seems to be irritating to some users however, I shall stop. :)

EDIT: - Just been back and removed the red from all my posts. Only have 24, so it wasn't too time consuming. :)

LMSCorvetteGT2
Point is the red lights were out and the session was over, Pastor doing another rookie move that you'd think he could understand by now and then decided to go run a fast lap though the session as I said was over. CS I have to say I don't know what Pastor was thinking and since I don't I can't fully say that he did it on purpose.
Click to expand...
Definitely, not for one minute was I suggesting Maldonado wasn't at fault. He was. I only stated my belief that this notion of it being an intentional move was ridiculous. Although of course, you can't fully say it was on purpose in the same manner I can't say for sure that it was unintentional. We can only ever attempt to justify our opinions. :)
 
Last edited:
I read in an interview about a week ago that basically the few/none of the upgrades were compatible with the original fit out of the R31. The original design must've been perfected to a flaw for it's level of performance.
 
^Thats just a roundabout way of saying "we designed a car we couldn't develop". I think the biggest problem Renault had was that they didn't have a blown diffuser, the front-facing exhausts obviously prevented that and didn't create the same amounts of downforce (as well as not providing the amount of development).
Basically they screwed up trying to be innovative with the exhausts and it meant they were stuck with a design that wasn't easily changed.

Williams clearly had the same problem though they simply designed a car they didn't understand from the beginning.

Sauber did the opposite - they had a solid car which responded well to updates but they never got the blown diffuser working and chose to ditch trying to develop it when it was sort of banned between Valencia and Silverstone.

Toro Rosso seemed to have designed a decent car but didn't work out really how to get the most of it till late in the season. It seemed to have good aero effeciencey but lacked performance in low-speed corners.

Force India appeared to have everything from the start to finish, their car just wasn't as fast as Mercedes. They seemed to develop it ok and the car worked on a variety of tracks and hit the ground running from race one.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
He purposely hit Hamilton at Spa? Does that not compute with you? Also any driver that can't get out of GP2 after so many years like Maldonado really isn't going to garner much respect and it's obvious his racecraft isn't up to what it should be.
Click to expand...

Point is, he won the GP2 championship. And he didn't just beat a few useless drivers. He beat Sergio Perez quite easily. Fair enough, it took him a few years, and his career has been blighted by a few moments of sheer stupidity, but you can't always use a driver's performance in GP2 as evidence of their aptitude in F1.

Giorgio Pantano won the GP2 championship (fair enough, after his F1 career)and he proved himself more than useless in F1. From what I hear, he was an absolute legend in Karting.

Kamui Kobayashi (everyone's favourite example) looked fairly average in GP2. He has really shone in F1.

Maldonado has shown brilliant pace on occasion and would have outscored Barrichello at Monaco had Lewis not been an idiot. He does make his fair share of mistakes, but something is clearly there. If only he could iron out those mistakes and be more consistent, no one would have anything bad to say about him.


Except maybe for the evil eyes :sly:.
 
Wish Force India would hurry up with their announcement. :ouch:
 
Classic
Wish Force India would hurry up with their announcement. :ouch:
Click to expand...

They said they would make it weeks ago, this is totally unfair on the one of the three who has been let go, they'll have no time to find a new seat. I'd say the best team would be Sutil and the Hulk, Di Resta has had a ok rookie season but I think Hulkenberg has more to give the team in terms of pace, Sutil has shown himself to be a good driver this season and has been part of Force India's growth in recent years, they'd be fools to let him go.
 
The Outlaw
IMO, I don't see how Petrov (I am a rather big critic of him) really did any better in his rookie season on the whole (having a GREAT car only gave him cover from criticism in my view), yet I saw so many people saying that he should be given a second year to prove himself...yet what has he really done this year, other than proving to be a mediocre driver that should probably be driving in one of the lower teams (if things were based on driving merit alone).
Click to expand...


How about 3rd at Melbourne, which was a fantastic drive as well? 5th at Canada (granted, it was a wet race)? And the fact that after Valencia, the development of the car just went backwards anyway. He's out there driving an 8-10th place car, and the majority of the time he gets out of the car what it has to give. If it weren't for the couple of incidents in the first part of the season and the way the car declined, he would have looked much better by the end of the year.
 
GOTMAXPOWER
They said they would make it weeks ago, this is totally unfair on the one of the three who has been let go, they'll have no time to find a new seat. I'd say the best team would be Sutil and the Hulk, Di Resta has had a ok rookie season but I think Hulkenberg has more to give the team in terms of pace, Sutil has shown himself to be a good driver this season and has been part of Force India's growth in recent years, they'd be fools to let him go.
Click to expand...

Nah, I see Di Resta staying, Rookie of the year in many people's eyes and a future world champion (according to Eddie Jordan). If FI let him go they will surely regret it. ;)
 
It would be nice to finally see a woman in F1 again, even if it's just a testing role.

And if Pastor is in, now the seat to watch is Rubens'. I wonder if he'll get the boot for Sutil.
 
Vijay Mallya has suggested that he might keep Sutil for another year, which would pave the way for Rubens to start his 20th season.

Ironically, the biggest news of the silly season - Raikkonen returning - might just make the rest of the silly season pretty flat.
 
Classic
Nah, I see Di Resta staying, Rookie of the year in many people's eyes and a future world champion (according to Eddie Jordan). If FI let him go they will surely regret it. ;)
Click to expand...
He was the rookie with the best car, and it's easier for someone to look good in a better car. There is absolutely no evidence that he is better than Perez or even Maldonado, just opinions.

I'm unsure about Di Resta because I've never rated Sutil. The guy couldn't beat an old washed up Fisi in their time together. A rookie Kova did better against Fisi by comparison. Since then, Sutil has only had Liuzzi as a teammate. I suspect Sutil may have been flattered by the much improved Force India near the end of this season, though it's definitely possible that he has improved as well.

I really want to see Hulkenberg at Force India with Di Resta and Sutil at another team to see if Sutil has actually improved and to see if Di Resta is the real deal.
 
SagarisGTB
He was the rookie with the best car, and it's easier for someone to look good in a better car. There is absolutely no evidence that he is better than Perez or even Maldonado, just opinions.

I'm unsure about Di Resta because I've never rated Sutil. The guy couldn't beat an old washed up Fisi in their time together. A rookie Kova did better against Fisi by comparison. Since then, Sutil has only had Liuzzi as a teammate. I suspect Sutil may have been flattered by the much improved Force India near the end of this season, though it's definitely possible that he has improved as well.

I really want to see Hulkenberg at Force India with Di Resta and Sutil at another team to see if Sutil has actually improved and to see if Di Resta is the real deal.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of drivers that I too would like to see, but I don't see why Sutil wouldn't get to keep his seat. He didn't drive awful this year and yes though Di Resta didn't get outright beat by Sutil, the points might say otherwise, but stat wise, Sutil only beat Paul 10-9. However, Sutil did bring the most points home for the team and helped them gain sixth behind Renault and almost catching them for fifth in WCC. Hulk is good, but I doubt he could have done as good as Sutil this year.
 
prisonermonkeys
Interesting - Romain Grosjean will test BMW's M3 DTM this weekend:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96610

I'd say Grosjean's stock as a Frenchman has gone down now that Charles Pic has joined Marussia.
Click to expand...

Well I don't really see Grosjean in a Renault next year unless Petrov decides to go elsewhere. As far as DTM goes, BMW would probably keep him as a test driver, from what I've seen they already have alot of high class drivers for their cars in the series.
 
Interesting idea from Dimitris Papadopoulo (F1Enigma) - if Adrian Sutil cannot get a seat at Force India, he might be well and truly screwed:

http://f1enigma.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/maldonado-confirmed-at-williams-and-now-what/

Basically, there are three teams worth his while with open seats: Force India, Williams and Renault.

He's trying to land a Force India seat, but Vijay Mallya is widely believed to have chosen Paul di Resta and Nico Hulkenberg for 2012. Unless Kingfisher spirals out of control (and they risk being locked out of many of the flights they still operate if they do not pay Mumbai Airport their overdue fees) and the Sahara Group form a minority with Michel Mol for control of the team, I don't think Sutil will be able to talk Mallya around.

Renault is a problem because of the episode in the Shanghai nightclub between Sutil and Eric Lux. I don't think there is going to be much love lost there. That said, Kimi Raikkonen signed up with them despite being angry with them a year ago ... but there's a difference between accusing someone of using you for media attention and causing a team member grievous bodily harm.

And Williams is a problem because Sutil's sponsor, Medion, is owned by Lenovo - and Lenovo just left Williams for McLaren. However, it wouldn't be the first time one company has sponsored two teams, and it might be worth Medion's while to get out of Force India while they still can. Although the team seems to be insulated from Kingfisher's current woes, there's going to be a lot of bad press if Kingfisher goes under, but the company stays with Force India. Although Vijay Mallya manages his sponsorship very differently to the other teams, Kingfisher going bust will be like tar - it's going to stick to everything.
 
It should be mentioned that Kingfisher isn't just an airline. Its also an achoholic beverage. So the "sponsorship" on the cars can apply to either.

To be honest, I really don't see a problem with Mallya still running the team if Kingfisher Airlines go bust because its not like there is a direct connection, as in, it can be easily blamed that the company went bust because of the world economy (all airlines are struggling) and hence Mallya won't necessarily be criticised for running an F1 team....
Not to mention Mallya owns/runs a lot of companies. Losing one won't necessarily be the end of the F1 team.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

NotThePrez
The '14 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread
19 20 21
Replies
607
Views
33K
otakukid96
O
Dylan
2023 NASCAR Discussion Thread
24 25 26
Replies
768
Views
71K
Dylan
Dylan
EngieDiesel
The 2018 F1 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread
23 24 25
Replies
735
Views
45K
Veinz
Veinz
Famine
  • Locked
Gran Turismo 7 Update 1.54 Prediction & Discussion Thread
11 12 13
Replies
371
Views
90K
Lomic
Lomic
RappyThePro
  • Locked
2020 FORMULA 1 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP
Replies
1
Views
681
daan
daan

Latest Posts

Back