The 2012 Driver transfer discussion/speculation thread

[Prince.M5]

It was quite a while after the accident with Schumacher, if I remember correctly and he lost fourth gear on up-shift only.

I rewatched the race again and he actually lost fourth gear when Maldonado was about to past him at the back straight. That's why he drastically lost the straight to Maldonado... About halfway through the race.

 

[Seismica]

I don't think he lost fourth gear until after he clashed with Schumacher. And if he did, well, everyone else (except Hamilton) whose gearbox caught the 'flu managed it okay.

Losing a gear is completely different to having to short shift. Vettel only had to short shift in lower gears so it cost him hundredths per lap as those gears are extremely short anyway. Senna lost an entire gear and was losing a couple of tenths on every straight. Not to mention he lost part of his front wing which will have lost him front downforce. Oh, he also had a drive-through penalty for Schumacher driving into him. The track is very wide on the entrance to turn one and most drivers run out wide and cut back in. Senna was merely following the direction of the racing line whilst still giving space to Schumacher who turned in to try and get the apex for turn 2.

Apart from the collision (which is debateable as to who was at fault), I think Senna had valid reasons for not performing in Brazil. Brazil is a poor example to compare him to Petrov in my opinion as too much went wrong for him that wasn't his fault to be able to blame his result on a poor performance.

I don't rate Bruno Senna that highly, I still feel his skill has been exaggerated by some because of his uncle. But he has been solid in some races, Monza and India off the top of my head. You could say that the R31 towards the end of the season is as bad as the R29 Grosjean had to drive.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If it wasn't for the collision and penalty, he would have surely brought home some points.

I'm sure he would have. But I see you neglected to mention the way Senna was penalised - for causing an avoidable collision. The stewards gave him that penalty because he was the one at fault. And if you look at the replays, you can clearly see Senna twitch to the right under brakes as they enter the braking zone. I can only imagine that this was a very poorly thought-out attempt to take a defensive line into the corner, because Schumacher was already alongside him.

So, while Bruno Senna probably would have scored points at Interlagos were it not for the contact and penalty, he also has no-one to blame for that contact and penalty but himself.

 

[RTSolvalou]

I think Senna only got the drive-through because Schumacher had to get a new tyre, they just wanted to balance things out a bit, although a stop go would've been closer, so they were kind of being lenient.

Raikkonen. Interesting. I was sure we'd see Grosjean come in with some kind of contract that was pending the factors of Kubica's recovery and Grosjean's points tally, at mid-season. And from there I was starting to think Petrov may move to Williams at the end of his contract.

Not sure what to think now, apart from Petrov->Williams still being likely for 2013, they need ready-to-go talent at a lower price than the big boy's contracts, who also can bring money in, Petrov should slide right in there for 2013 if he and Lotus part ways. But now I read about the possibility of Petrov moving for 2012!. Spicy. Williams is definately one of the two unnamed teams his manager is in talks with (And you'd hope the other one is the likes of Force India! Because it 'can't' be Red Bull or Toro, can't be McLaren or Mercedes, paper thin chance of Ferrari), but I think his best shot at a championship for next year is with Lotus, as the main people that made Williams great are no longer there. I just hope he understands the current spectrum of the teams and why they are where they are.

I hope to see Petrov VS Raikkonen next year, this year he never really got to go wheel to wheel with a teammate.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think Senna only got the drive-through because Schumacher had to get a new tyre, they just wanted to balance things out a bit, although a stop go would've been closer, so they were kind of being lenient.

That's the way penalties work: if you collide with another driver, and if that driver is adversely affected while you are not, you usually get a penalty.

I think his best shot at a championship for next year is with Lotus

I very much doubt that Lotus will be championship contenders next year. There's four teams in front of them.

I hope to see Petrov VS Raikkonen next year, this year he never really got to go wheel to wheel with a teammate.

I think most people are expecting Raikkonen to trounce Petrov next year. And they're probably right. But if Petrov hits the ground running, and forces Raikkonen to balance racing agaisnt him with learning about fuel-heavy cars, Pirelli tyres and DRS, it may put Raikkonen in a corner. Petrov has to hit hard and hit fast for it to work, though.

I think the biggest thing that might push Petrov elsewhere is Robert Kubica. Eric Boullier has said that he will put Kubica in the car as soon as Kubica feels he is ready, and since they've just made headlines in a) signing Raikkonen and b) stealing him away from Williams, that means Petrov is the one who is most likely going to be replaced if Kubica is ready in the middle of 2012. I think he'll want some assurance that he's not going to get the carpet pulled out from under him.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Really?

Bruno was well on track to points up to his collision. After outqualifying your dear Vitaly by several tenths of a second. If it wasn't for the collision and penalty, he would have surely brought home some points.

You're always finding a way to criticize Bruno at every corner, literally, when he's doing a fine job considering that he jumped into the car mid season with little to no experience with KERS, DRS or Pirellis.

I think you just want to see a Senna so badly that you can't face fact. I'm a big Bruno fan myself and would like to see him outdo his Uncle any day of the week. Problem is he isn't as good as everyone jumped to after his first race this season. I think he could be a great qualifier like his uncle, but race craft I doubt it and Renault probably see it that way as well.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Confirmed drivers (Bold) and my predictions of the other seats.

Red Bull - Vettel, Webber
McLaren - Button, Hamilton
Ferrari - Alonso, Massa
Mercedes - Rosberg, Schumacher
Lotus - Raikkonen, Grosjean
Williams - Barrichello, Sutil
Force India - Di Resta, Hulkenberg
Sauber - Kobayashi, Perez
Toro Rosso - Alguersuari, Buemi
Caterham - Kovalainen, Trulli
HRT - De La Rosa, Ricciardo
Marussia - Glock, Pic

 

[Jimlaad43]

Not double post but should have read this first.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96592

 

[Bopop4]

Robert Wickens should have gotten the Virgin F1 seat. He beat the guy (who actually has the seat) in the F3.5 championship. He was the reserve but he deserves the real seat.

 

[toyotsupra]

Confirmed drivers (Bold) and my predictions of the other seats.

Red Bull - Vettel, Webber
McLaren - Button, Hamilton
Ferrari - Alonso, Massa
Mercedes - Rosberg, Schumacher
Lotus - Raikkonen, Petrov/Senna/Grosjean
Williams - Barrichello, Sutil
Force India - Di Resta, Hulkenberg
Sauber - Kobayashi, Perez
Toro Rosso - Alguersuari, Buemi
Caterham - Kovalainen, Trulli/Ricciardo
HRT - De La Rosa, Charouz/Ricciardo
Marussia - Glock, Pic
Italics means that they have a contract but could be kicked out of their seat.

Torro Rosso wont keep Buemi i dont think maybe Vergne will go and partner Jamie

Edit: Buemi hasnt done enough this season too keep his seat for 2012 as for Renault Raikkonen and Romain would be a better driver pairing then Petrov and Riakkonen i think...

 

[Hun200kmh]

http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2011/Pages/f1-entry-2012.aspx

Can't be more official than this

Interesting that the HRT cars have no engines. And of course, the 9 seats with driver TBA status. Was surprised also t notice that Caterham keeps both drivers, I thought only Kova would stay.

My picks for those seats (not what I would like, instead what I think will happen):

LOTUS F1 TEAM

#10 car - Vitaly Petrov
(reserve driver - Romain Grosjean)

SAHARA FORCE INDIA

#11 car - Adrian Sutil
#12 car - Paul di Resta
(reserve driver - Sebastien Buemi)



SCUDERIA TORO ROSSO

#16 - Jaime Alguersuari
#17 -Daniel Ricciardo
(reserve driver - Jean Eric Vergne)


AT&T WILLIAMS


#18 car- Nico Hulkenberg
#19 car - Bruno Senna
(reserve driver - ???)


HRT F1 TEAM


#22 - Pedro de la Rosa
#23 - Pastor Maldonado
(reserve driver - ???)

 

[YellowG1]

Confirmed drivers (Bold) and my predictions of the other seats.

Red Bull - Vettel, Webber
McLaren - Button, Hamilton
Ferrari - Alonso, Massa
Mercedes - Rosberg, Schumacher
Lotus - Raikkonen, Grosjean
Williams - Barrichello, Sutil
Force India - Di Resta, Hulkenberg
Sauber - Kobayashi, Perez
Toro Rosso - Alguersuari, Buemi
Caterham - Kovalainen, Trulli
HRT - De La Rosa, Ricciardo
Marussia - Glock, Pic

Why do people keep thinking Maldonado is out at Williams? He's mediocre (to be kind) but brings too much money that Williams needs. If that money disappears (as it apparently might), then Maldonado is likely out of F1. I think, unfortunately, Barrichello ends up being the odd man out. 👎 That said:

Red Bull - Vettel, Webber
McLaren - Button, Hamilton
Ferrari - Alonso, Massa
Mercedes - Rosberg, Schumacher
Lotus Renault - Raikkonen, Petrov
Williams - Sutil, Maldonado
Force India - Di Resta, Hulkenberg
Sauber - Kobayashi, Perez
Toro Rosso - Alguersuari, Senna?
Caterham - Kovalainen, Trulli
HRT - De La Rosa, Ricciardo
Marussia - Glock, Pic

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think you just want to see a Senna so badly that you can't face fact. I'm a big Bruno fan myself and would like to see him outdo his Uncle any day of the week. Problem is he isn't as good as everyone jumped to after his first race this season. I think he could be a great qualifier like his uncle, but race craft I doubt it and Renault probably see it that way as well.

I'm curious to see what he will have to say if Senna gets the second Renault and then Raikkonen wipes the floor with him.

AT&T WILLIAMS
#18 car- Nico Hulkenberg
#19 car - Bruno Senna
(reserve driver - ???)

Hulkenberg won't be going back to Williams. Especially since they need Maldonado's money. In a perfect world, Maldonado might go somewhere like Hispania to drive a car equal to his talent, but as has frequently been demonstrated, this is not a perfect world. Williams won't take Hulkenberg and Senna because neither has enough sponsorship to keep the team going. It's more likely that Williams will run Sutil/Maldonado, Sutil/Petrov, Bottas/Maldonado or Bottas/Petrov.

Why do people keep thinking Maldonado is out at Williams?

Because the Venezuelans are investigating the PDVSA sponsorship deal, and also because Williams might get a better driver and a similar amount of money in Vitaly Petrov.

 

[fps_christian]

Maldonado will stay at Williams, Petrov will stay at Renault. Money is the name of the game. I think for the rest of the seats; Force India will be as predicted, STR will be Algesuari and Vergne while HRT get some leftover driver or rookie.

 

[csmeteora9]

In a perfect world, Maldonado might go somewhere like Hispania to drive a car equal to his talent...

Quite frankly, I believe these harsh criticisms towards Maldonado are unjustified. Indeed, he made errors. Quite a few in fact, I'll be honest. Overall however, his pace was decent. Seven times during the season, he out qualified Barrichello, on merit. For a rookie, that isn't at all disappointing. Even when beaten by his team mate in qualifying, Maldonado wasn't always left wanting. On some occasions, the time difference between him and Rubens wasn't exactly what you would call substantial. Another interesting point to note is that, had Hamilton not foolishly wiped him out during the closing stages at Monaco, Maldonado could well have out scored Rubens this season. Of course, it isn't all about points, race-by-race performance is key. By observing his races this season, you'll realize that, he hasn't been anywhere near as awful as some people suggest. In truth, he's performed quite well, especially when you consider that the Williams FW33 was by far the worst car in the field to be produced by an established team. All that this widespread resentment towards Maldonado comes down too is the stereotype that pay drivers are useless. Anyone who pays for their drive is instantly regarded as unworthy. Petrov is an example, some (not you prisonermonkeys) still regard him as mediocre, because he has sponsorship. People seem to forget Abu Dhabi 2010 and Australia at the beginning of this season. On both occasions he demonstrated he could withstand pressure from a double World Champion. Not to mention he has shown that he can overtake. His team mate Bruno on the other hand, hasn't shown as much yet. As he hasn't had the same chance, he is still a relative unknown. However because of his last name, many are already assuming he is rather good. Although he too, brings sponsorship. Still, I've ranted long enough. Hopefully I haven't come across too harsh or personal. If I have done so, then I apologize.

 

[PeterJB]

Deliberately crashing into other drivers doesn't make you look good though. Nor does repetitive crashes of your own accord.

 

[csmeteora9]

Deliberately crashing into other drivers doesn't make you look good though. Nor does repetitive crashes of your own accord.

Deliberately? How can you be certain it was on purpose?

 

[astrosdude91]

Did you not see when he sideswiped Hamilton after Spa qualifying? It was very clearly out of rage.

Maybe he didn't intend on hitting Lewis. But he clearly tried to turn into Hamilton to intimidate him, but he ended up sideswiping him instead. Still a really careless move which should've seen him black flagged.

 

[csmeteora9]

Did you not see when he sideswiped Hamilton after Spa qualifying? It was very clearly out of rage.

Maybe he didn't intend on hitting Lewis. But he clearly tried to turn into Hamilton to intimidate him, but he ended up sideswiping him instead. Still a really careless move which should've seen him black flagged.

Yes, I did in fact see it. Although to me it seemed more as if Maldonado gradually moved across on Hamilton unintentionally, rather than sideswiping him. I'm not sure he was fully aware Hamilton was passing on his left. Of course, the media accused Pastor of purposefully turning in on Hamilton and the majority jumped on the band wagon. I'm almost certain the movement wasn't sudden. Can anyone find a video of the incident? As my search has returned nothing.

 

[Sach]

Seemed intentional to me.

 

[Ardius]

Not this again. Maldonado intentionally hit or at least tried to spook Hamilton. It couldn't be more clear-cut.
I don't think Maldonado has been the worst driver to grace F1, and his rookie season wasn't much worse than Hulkenburg's. Williams could have a lot worse than Maldonado really.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Seemed intentional to me.

Seemed like Hamilton made multiple moves over at Maldonado to provoke that, the stewards agreed by reprimanding him for causing a collision. The incidents months old though now so doesn't really matter since he has shown he's a good driver, beating Rubinho for pace on a lot of events.

 

[Ardius]

Seemed like Hamilton made multiple moves over at Maldonado to provoke that, the stewards agreed by reprimanding him for causing a collision. The incidents months old though now so doesn't really matter since he has shown he's a good driver, beating Rubinho for pace on a lot of events.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/8/12454.html

Er, the stewards agreed that Maldonado was at fault...it doesn't matter what Hamilton did trying to set a fastest time, that is no excuse for what Maldonado did.
Hamilton didn't "provoke" that reaction. I don't see how you can see it that way - Lewis didn't exactly give him the finger while passing him did he?

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/8/12454.html

Er, the stewards agreed that Maldonado was at fault...it doesn't matter what Hamilton did trying to set a fastest time, that is no excuse for what Maldonado did.
Hamilton didn't "provoke" that reaction. I don't see how you can see it that way - Lewis didn't exactly give him the finger while passing him did he?

The provoking was after that chicane, as they came round la source Hamilton edged over to Maldonado twice, there is a bit of analysis in this: http://bbs.hellof1.com/2683377.html

 

[Ardius]

No he didn't, Hamilton was driving following the line of the track, his car's other movements are due to his preoccupation with waving his hands in the air in frustration at Maldonado - not trying to provoke a reaction. If you watch Hamilton's onboard its pretty damn clear.
Not to mention it also looks like a typical wheel spin twitch if you refer to that little left-right twitch as they exit the corner.

For reference, you can see Hamilton's onboard here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14691403.stm

(3:20 minutes in)

The whole thing was argued pretty much to death here:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=219889&highlight=belgian&page=9

 

[YellowG1]

Because the Venezuelans are investigating the PDVSA sponsorship deal, and also because Williams might get a better driver and a similar amount of money in Vitaly Petrov.

So I've heard (though I wouldn't be surprised if the investigation goes nowhere)... Better is arguable. Though it's been said before, it's comical that Petrov finished the year with 37 points and Heidfeld with 34. To be honest, these money guys (Maldonado, Senna, and Petrov) are borderline frauds in my opinion. It's sad that it's gotten to a point where driver selection isn't based wholly on talent, but that's a conversation for another day.

I figure Renault needs to have a shot at someone markedly better than Petrov (Sutil??) for them to show Petrov the door. Failing that, I think Petrov and thus Maldonado stays in place.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Deliberately? How can you be certain it was on purpose?

He purposely hit Hamilton at Spa? Does that not compute with you? Also any driver that can't get out of GP2 after so many years like Maldonado really isn't going to garner much respect and it's obvious his racecraft isn't up to what it should be.

 

[The Outlaw]

Quite frankly, I believe these harsh criticisms towards Maldonado are unjustified. Indeed, he made errors. Quite a few in fact, I'll be honest. Overall however, his pace was decent. Seven times during the season, he out qualified Barrichello, on merit. For a rookie, that isn't at all disappointing. Even when beaten by his team in qualifying, Maldonado wasn't always left wanting. On some occasions, the time difference between him and Rubens wasn't exactly what you would call substantial. Another interesting point to note is that, had Hamilton not foolishly wiped him out during the closing stages at Monaco, Maldonado could well have out scored Rubens this season. Of course, it isn't all about points, race-by-race performance is key. By observing his races this season, you'll realize that, he hasn't been anywhere near as awful as some people suggest. In truth, he's performed quite well, especially when you consider that the Williams FW33 was by far the worst car in the field to be produced by an established team.

Nice post, and I to agree that a lot of the criticism torwards Maldonado is a bit unjustified (a lot of it probably just stems from people not liking his personality or the "evil eyes" or the fact that he's a pay driver) ...especially some who think he's so bad he doesn't belong in F1 and such. It's a bit annoying to see how much flak he gets, particularly considering that his performance this year on the whole hasn't been all that bad in absolute dog of a car, and in pure pace (which is probably the most important thing to show as a rookie) he has shown a fair bit of potential most would say.

IMO, I don't see how Petrov (I am a rather big critic of him) really did any better in his rookie season on the whole (having a GREAT car only gave him cover from criticism in my view), yet I saw so many people saying that he should be given a second year to prove himself...yet what has he really done this year, other than proving to be a mediocre driver that should probably be driving in one of the lower teams (if things were based on driving merit alone). The fact that he has had this comfortable seat at LRGP for 2 years, while so many others (Sutil, Barichello, Di Resta, Hulkenburg, Alguesuari, Buemi, etc.) have had to fight tooth and nail just to stay in F1, let alone for one of the top teams, only annoys me further

Not this again. Maldonado intentionally hit or at least tried to spook Hamilton. It couldn't be more clear-cut.
I don't think Maldonado has been the worst driver to grace F1, and his rookie season wasn't much worse than Hulkenburg's. Williams could have a lot worse than Maldonado really.

I agree. With that said, I'd would have liked to have seen any of the other rookies over the past 2 years do much better than he has done this year in that dog of a Williams.

The provoking was after that chicane, as they came round la source Hamilton edged over to Maldonado twice, there is a bit of analysis in this: http://bbs.hellof1.com/2683377.html

I think a lot of the provoking was probably done at Monaco, when Hamilton was expecting everyone to pull over for him that day. Maldonado was on track to get a great result at Monaco, until the controversial dive bomb by Hamilton. I doubt Hamilton apologized for that, which probably only angered Pastor further (as with what happened with Massa). And from there, things hit a boiling point at Spa.

In all honesty, to an extent I commend Maldonado for at least sticking up for himself against one of the big names in the sport, even if it meant tarnishing his reputation to a good degree. I personally rather see a driver fight back than just bend over and be another drivers lap dog And what the hell, in the end it was just more entertainment/drama (something people really get off on) for the viewers anyway.

 

[Seismica]

In Malaysia, Maldonado followed the dirty line for the back straight. I was on F1 2011 earlier and was following that same line whilst using KERS and DRS, and looking at my rev lights, so I kind of forgot to stay on the racing line. No other drivers were doing this, it's a very amateur thing to not be able to do everything in the cockpit, it is a minimum requirement for the driver nowadays to be able to operate various things on the steering wheel and drive the racing line. This either shows a lack of skill, or a lack of commitment as most drivers spend hours in the simulator just getting used to their steering wheels and be able to adjust things without thinking.

In Abu Dhabi he was terrible at moving aside when being lapped, and almost caused a couple of collisions.

Then there is the incident at Spa which says to me that the safety of himself, other drivers and the spectators isn't important to him. He's not really a likeable guy and compared to Hulkenberg who he replaced, he's not very skilled either.

I had high hopes for him, I even included him in a fantasy F1 team competition, a decision which I regretted after a couple of races.

If he stays in his seat it will be solely because of the sponsorship he brings, and even that is not guaranteed as the investigation into the deal may not be resolved by the start of the 2012 season, so it may be worthwhile for Williams to cut him loose now. There are other pay drivers out there who are more deserving of a seat in F1.

 

[RTSolvalou]

Maldonado is TBA pending the outcome of his sponsorship investigation. If PVDSA get blocked from being able to sponsor Williams, I'm sure Maldo will be out and Petrov will be in, but there's no guarrantees Williams aren't trying to nab Petrov early just in case, in which case Barrichello's future would lie in the outcome of the investigation.
This is my theory.

I'm started to get excited about the prospect of Petrov going to Williams, as overall they have easily been ahead of the other 3 teams running cosworth engines, I see them as being at the bottom of the third tier of teams, hopefully the renault power next year can put them up to the top of the third tier or even break into the second, let alone the likely outcome that they won't deliver as bad a car as they did this year. (I'm counting said tiers as groups of 3 teams performance wise). I dare not hope for better than that in writing.

I am wondering what the other team is that his manager mentioned as being in discussions with. That official entry list for 2012 is just interim. What's guarranteed is that that other team cannot/shouldn't be Red Bull, Toro Rosso, McLaren, Mercedes, Caterham, Marussia. That leaves 4 teams excluding Williams and Lotus, and no one in their right mind would go to HRT. Sauber seem ok with their current drivers, although Kobi didn't do so well this season, I wouldn't rule Ferrari out, but that is a very long shot and would mean Petrov has to move overseas again, That just leaves Force India... and although we never know all the details and any team's 'climate', I don't see why they'd drop Di Resta, and apparently Hulkenberg is confident of a return, although obviously he failed to mention a team hehe. (Hulkenberg to Ferrari on the deeply sly? it couldn't be!?)