The 2012 Driver transfer discussion/speculation thread

[prisonermonkeys]

Except he says he's already ruled it out.

 

[Northstar]

I wonder why Bruno's family wouldn't allow him to sign up for IndyCar? Perhaps it's related to the Wheldon tragedy.

Just a theory.

IndyCar has a sort of stigma of being the place where F1 drop outs go when they still want to be in an open wheeler. It also can be harder to break through as there are fewer competitive rides(really it's Ganassi or Penske with a few teams getting a lucky break once or twice a year) and is more expensive. While going the NASCAR route won't completely void the plan B aspect it's cheaper and top tier rides are more available in the lower tier series.

(Senna), (Raikkonen), Piquet, Montoya, Speed... You'd think that you'd hear some of those names in the top 3 on "Road courses" being F1 drivers and all... But no.

Montoya is always a thread at the road courses, Speed was never in a competitive car in F1 or NASCAR and Piquet and Raikkonen have only raced ovals in NASCAR(although Piquet is supposedly doing some Nationwide races next year so he may do some road course racing).

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Ridiculous rumour time: Bruno Senna will move to Williams, with $27 million in sponsorship from Carlos Slim.

 

[Sach]

Ridiculous rumour time: Bruno Senna will move to Williams, with $27 million in sponsorship from Carlos Slim.

I like that rumor.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Doesn't stop it from being ridiculous.

 

[astrosdude91]

Why would Carlos Slim sponsor Bruno Senna?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That's precisely why it's a ridiculous rumour.

Also the fact that AT&T already sponsor Williams, and are unlikely to warm to the idea of Slim funding a driver.

 

[astrosdude91]

I'd rather see Sutil get the Williams drive anyways. Between the two I think he's more worthy of a seat.

 

[peter_vod69]

Excuse me for going OT here a moment.

With apologies to the American members, Indycar as it stands today is a bit of a joke. When people like Ayrton and Mansell were around it was going from strength to strength. Then the CART/Tony George sadfest happened and now the cars look rubbish, and are a long way from the glory days of the 1990's. I mean no offense, and this isn't an anti-American rant, just stating what seems to be the perception in the rest of the world.

 

[Peter.]

But he is also looking at a NASCAR program (battle of the underperforming relatives of Formula 1 legends?):

Do not, under any circumstances, class Bruno Senna with Nelson Piquet. Piquet got a season and a half, in a decent car, and apart from a lucky podium, floundered. Senna also got a season and a half, most of it spent in a bad car beating all of his teammates, then inexperienced, comes along and basically equals his more experienced teammate at Renault.

Which brings me to this? Apart from him being Russian, why would Marussia boot Glock from the seat at Marussia and take Petrov? Glock won't get an offer from anywhere else, he has no money to bring, so rule out Williams. What Glock brings in talent and leadership, as well as experience, will help Marussia more than whatever Petrov may bring in funding.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Do not, under any circumstances, class Bruno Senna with Nelson Piquet.

Both are Brazilian. Both are related to famous Formula 1 drivers. Both had a season and a half in the sport. Both drove for Renault. Both underperformed. They're got a lot in common. The only discernable difference is their attitude.

Piquet got a season and a half, in a decent car, and apart from a lucky podium, floundered. Senna also got a season and a half, most of it spent in a bad car beating all of his teammates, then inexperienced, comes along and basically equals his more experienced teammate at Renault.

How were any of the cars Piquet drove "good"? The Renault R29 in particular appeared to be nothing more than thirty million dollars' worth of ballast.

And as I have explained to you time and again, Senna did not "equal" Petrov. How is beating him once in six races "equalling" him? You still have made an excuse for that.

Which brings me to this? Apart from him being Russian, why would Marussia boot Glock from the seat at Marussia and take Petrov?

Who said they would get rid of Glock?

Glock won't get an offer from anywhere else, he has no money to bring, so rule out Williams.

Except Williams already has money from Pastor Maldonado. More always helps, but they're not exactly shaving pennies to get by.

What Glock brings in talent and leadership, as well as experience, will help Marussia more than whatever Petrov may bring in funding.

Right, because $15 million is basically nothing. And it's not like Petrov is a bad leader, considering that he spent most of 2011 leading Renault once it became obvious that Heidfeld was not performing as expected.

Can we maybe move on from the Petrov-Senna comparisons? All we're doing is going around in circles, and it's not like we're going to affect anything. You can talk about how Senna is an under-appreciated driver and make excuses for his poor performance all you like, but the simple fact of the matter is that he's out of a drive for 2012, and unlikely to find a seat. If he really was as talented as you make out, he would have found enough sponsors to secure a seat by now. Petrov, however, has enough sponsors and enough talent to make other teams consider him. This evidently doesn't sit well with you, but you can't change the fact that the team principals have voted with their feet - and Senna lost.

 

[peter_vod69]

Can we get prisonermonkeys name changed to petrovsno1fanmonkey?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

No, we can not.

 

[peter_vod69]

Not even by deed poll?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Not even by deed poll.

Now, back on-topic, thanks.

 

[RTSolvalou]

Possible but not likely

 

[fps_christian]

Now, finally a post which is in no favor for B.Senna or Petrov...

I red yesterday that HRT will announce their other driver after new year. I'm not predicting anyone special will go there, probably a rookie (GP2 driver) or some washed-up, old driver still thinking he has game.

>inb4 old news

 

[RTSolvalou]

In a sense they can take their pick, I'm sure they'll enjoy having some decent drivers competing for the seat, It'll make them feel a bit special.
I think Aguers should go for it, see it as an opportunity to look good next year by giving the car a good spanking and beating at least one of the other backmarker teams' cars/drivers each race.

 

[Seismica]

Hispania racing team with an all Spanish lineup, that would be good. But that depends on whether Algersuari has sponsors, he's been backed by Red Bull so far in F1 and i'm unsure as to whether they continue that support after they have established themselves in the sport. If they do, he'd probably be doing a straight swap with Ricciardo.

The Williams seat is the most interesting one left. I feel that Williams will have a more capable car next year as they overcome the design problems that troubled them this year. I reckon Barrichello, Sutil and the two former Toro Rosso guys are the big contenders, if you assume they will be more experienced than Maldonado (You could also add Senna and Petrov into the mix, but let's not get into that - Heidfeld > both of them anyway).

 

[Sach]

The Renault R29 in particular appeared to be nothing more than thirty million dollars' worth of ballast.

Ah.

 

[Peter.]

No, we can not.

Well, i'll call you petrovnumber1fanmonkeys, if that's okay with you.

Bruno Senna has a lot of sponsorship, the only reason he probably doesn't have a seat, is because of the lack of seats available this season. He wouldn't go back to Hispania, and Hispania wouldn't want him either, because of their focus on making the team more Spanish. Virgin has 3 drivers going for 2 seats, and 1 signed already and confirmed for 2012, or so we think. Lotus wants to keep their current lineup of Trulli and Heikki, Senna isn't in the Red Bull Driving Academy, Sauber's lineup is confirmed, and has been since early this year, Force India wants Hulkenberg, and love di Resta too much to let him go. Williams, like you said, has the money via Maldonado, and Barichello isn't retiring, as far as we know. The rest are frontrunners, and are locked up for a while.

You can go on forever and say that Senna underperformed, that's your opinion and i'll respect it, no matter how much I disagree with it. But, when you throw your opinion at other people like rocks, as if it were cold hard fact, then that's where you're wrong. And frankly, that's all you've ever done.

 

[F1 fan]

Peter, there's a phrase about the pot calling the kettle black which would definitely apply in this case.

 

[takatasan]

The question of senna under performing is irelevent because renault as a whole underperformed this season which is all tahat really matters

 

[Peter.]

Peter, there's a phrase about the pot calling the kettle black which would definitely apply in this case.

How? All i've ever done is disagree with prisonermonkeys and try to prove to him that Senna didn't do as bad as he has it out to be.

 

[F1 fan]

How? All i've ever done is disagree with prisonermonkeys and try to prove to him that Senna didn't do as bad as he has it out to be.

No, you've been consistently waving the Senna flag. I mean, do we really need reminders about how he had to stop his put his career on hold for years whenever his results are questioned? On the flip side Interludes has been waving the Petrov flag. Both of you are as bad as each other.

 

[The Outlaw]

Both are Brazilian. Both are related to famous Formula 1 drivers. Both had a season and a half in the sport. Both drove for Renault. Both underperformed. They're got a lot in common. The only discernable difference is their attitude.

How were any of the cars Piquet drove "good"?.

Actually, he never said it was "good", he said it was "half decent." I wouldn't say "good" is on the same level as "decent", let alone "half decent".

The Renault R29 in particular appeared to be nothing more than thirty million dollars' worth of ballast..

But but but..."it's still an F1 car according to the FIA"

Right, because $15 million is basically nothing. And it's not like Petrov is a bad leader, considering that he spent most of 2011 leading Renault once it became obvious that Heidfeld was not performing as expected..

Based on what? How Renault went from podium material at the start of the season to floundering around at the back of the grid in the 2nd half? Other than that, I sure didn't see much inspirational talk from Petrov all season...nor much of any talk from him period that would suggest he was much of a leader. That fact that LRGP were looking for a driver to lead the team when they signed Heidfeld, probably suggested something as well..

No, you've been consistently waving the Senna flag. I mean, do we really need reminders about how he had to stop his put his career on hold for years whenever his results are questioned? On the flip side Interludes has been waving the Petrov flag. Both of you are as bad as each other.

lmao

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Well, i'll call you petrovnumber1fanmonkeys, if that's okay with you.

It's not.

Bruno Senna has a lot of sponsorship,

Right. Because he's managed to secure a seat for 2012 already. He had a head-start on Petrov, since he knew he would be leaving Renault before Petrov did.

the only reason he probably doesn't have a seat, is because of the lack of seats available this season.

A lack of seats should not be a problem. Teams are obligated to take the two best drivers available to them at any one time. If Senna was one of these drivers, he would have a seat.

He wouldn't go back to Hispania, and Hispania wouldn't want him either, because of their focus on making the team more Spanish.

Then why are they talking to a Dutchman?

Virgin has 3 drivers going for 2 seats, and 1 signed already and confirmed for 2012, or so we think. Lotus wants to keep their current lineup of Trulli and Heikki, Senna isn't in the Red Bull Driving Academy, Sauber's lineup is confirmed, and has been since early this year, Force India wants Hulkenberg, and love di Resta too much to let him go. Williams, like you said, has the money via Maldonado, and Barichello isn't retiring, as far as we know. The rest are frontrunners, and are locked up for a while.

Like I said - they've all taken the two drivers who they feel are best for them. If Senna had as much money and talent as you make out, he would already have a seat for 2012.

You can go on forever and say that Senna underperformed, that's your opinion and i'll respect it, no matter how much I disagree with it. But, when you throw your opinion at other people like rocks, as if it were cold hard fact, then that's where you're wrong. And frankly, that's all you've ever done.

Ah, the irony. You insist that Senna was the best driver at Renault in 2011. I might insist that Petrov was the better driver, but the difference is that I can quote facts and figures in support of my argument. I am still yet to hear a reasonable explanation from you as to how Senna was the best driver despite only out-racing Petrov once.

Based on what? How Renault went from podium material at the start of the season to floundering around at the back of the grid in the 2nd half?

Renault themselves admitted that they failed to develop the R31, and that their poor second half was due to this.

 

[Peter.]

Ah, the irony. You insist that Senna was the best driver at Renault in 2011. I might insist that Petrov was the better driver, but the difference is that I can quote facts and figures in support of my argument. I am still yet to hear a reasonable explanation from you as to how Senna was the best driver despite only out-racing Petrov once.

No, you don't want to take the facts that I've set forward against you. The fact that he has very little experience with KERS, DRS, or Pirelli tyres, 3 majorly important factors of the 2011 season, and nor did he have nearly as much experience with the car as Petrov. That means that Petrov should've easily had the best of Senna. But he didn't. Bruno outqualified him 3 times, and was never more than 3 tenths down on Vitaly. Yes, race wise, things did not favour Senna, but it was not entirely his fault. More than once, he was put on a poor strategy by the team, Suzuka for example, as well as India.

Everytime I mention these very things, either here or on F1Rejects, you completely overlook it. Maybe I should register on Autosport and tell you there as well.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

race wise, things did not favour Senna, but it was not entirely his fault. More than once, he was put on a poor strategy by the team, Suzuka for example, as well as India.

See, that's your problem - you invent excuses to explain away Senna's poor performances. According to you, when Senna does well, it's all down to him. But when he has a poor race, it's somebody else's fault. You had a go at me last night for likening Senna to Piquet Jnr., but the irony of it is that what you are doing for Senna is exactly what Nelson Piquet did in 2008 and 2009: blame everyone else.

Now, you can sprout this nonsense until you're blue in the face, but there is one critical element that you have overlooked: there are twenty-four seats on the grid. Twenty-two are filled, and Senna has not been connected to either of the other two. Since teams have to take the best two drivers available to them, and because Senna does not have a 2012 driver, none of the team principals - ie the people who can actually make it happen - think highly enough of him to give him a seat despite your claims that he has the money and the talent to make it.

So go ahead. Explain that one. Is there some massive conspiracy to remove all Brazilian drivers from the grid and replace them with the French?

 

[astrosdude91]

Would you two go on a date already?

Anyways, you guys should be going on about Sutil instead. It would be a real shame if he didn't get a seat for 2012.

Also, Vettel: Best driver on the grid, no question.