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The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread
- Thread starter DesertPenguin
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- STR3LA
Can you make it a little bit simpler. I'm afraid I don't understand exactly what your question is about.
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So I watched the whole video and it seems Candace Owens is making two main points:
1) The black community in the USA has a history of making martyrs out of criminals and that this is unique to them
2) There is no systemic racism in America, or at the very least there isn't in the police force with the latter "backed up" by statistics.
The black community making martyrs out of their criminals is demonstrably true, but I don't think this is unique to that group (although to be fair she limited it in scope to communities in America). She doesn't argue, however, how much of a factor she believes this is in the protests formed as a reaction to these individuals actions (or more specifically what was done to them) so it would be wrong to draw conclusions on what she thinks about the protests from this opinion.
Her second point is much more controversial, and is the real reason I believe she thinks the protests are unjustified. She argues that America doesn't have a racism problem ingrained in the system, but acknowledges that there are racists - the same as would be found in any other place where there are human beings. Her statistics to back up her claim of racism not playing a factor in police brutality are a little wonky - she says that white people are 25% more likely to be killed by police when being arrested for a violent crime which seems to be taken from this Tweet that was based on statistics from the Post:
If this was indeed the source it would actually be 33% higher but note that this is for violent crime. Floyd's case wouldn't have been counted in these statistics and she doesn't show the numbers for the difference in rates for non-violent crime.
As for her claim that black people are killed at a disproportionate rate because of their increased likelihood to offend, it's not that simple
1) The black community in the USA has a history of making martyrs out of criminals and that this is unique to them
2) There is no systemic racism in America, or at the very least there isn't in the police force with the latter "backed up" by statistics.
The black community making martyrs out of their criminals is demonstrably true, but I don't think this is unique to that group (although to be fair she limited it in scope to communities in America). She doesn't argue, however, how much of a factor she believes this is in the protests formed as a reaction to these individuals actions (or more specifically what was done to them) so it would be wrong to draw conclusions on what she thinks about the protests from this opinion.
Her second point is much more controversial, and is the real reason I believe she thinks the protests are unjustified. She argues that America doesn't have a racism problem ingrained in the system, but acknowledges that there are racists - the same as would be found in any other place where there are human beings. Her statistics to back up her claim of racism not playing a factor in police brutality are a little wonky - she says that white people are 25% more likely to be killed by police when being arrested for a violent crime which seems to be taken from this Tweet that was based on statistics from the Post:
If this was indeed the source it would actually be 33% higher but note that this is for violent crime. Floyd's case wouldn't have been counted in these statistics and she doesn't show the numbers for the difference in rates for non-violent crime.
As for her claim that black people are killed at a disproportionate rate because of their increased likelihood to offend, it's not that simple
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- TexRex72
You libs cry racism at every little thing.
Groundfish
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https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htius.pdf
One group stands out since the seventies when it comes to homicide as offender and victim.
Owens and people like Shelby Steele point this out. The messed up part is that this is like a repeat of 92 with King, and really nothing changed then, either. Painting a slogan on a street is not making any real difference to people living in urban poverty, or in many areas of large cities in the USA. That’s what is irritating. You hold a person like Rodney King up as a martyr and have riots and six months later it’s back to business as usual. That’s unacceptable imo.
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6162030807001#sp=show-clips
One group stands out since the seventies when it comes to homicide as offender and victim.
Owens and people like Shelby Steele point this out. The messed up part is that this is like a repeat of 92 with King, and really nothing changed then, either. Painting a slogan on a street is not making any real difference to people living in urban poverty, or in many areas of large cities in the USA. That’s what is irritating. You hold a person like Rodney King up as a martyr and have riots and six months later it’s back to business as usual. That’s unacceptable imo.
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6162030807001#sp=show-clips
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- TexRex72
What percentage of those shot dead represented a genuine threat to the lives of the officers at the time they were shot? I want to believe it's high. Very high.
I'm also compelled to note that Floyd's death wasn't the result of shooting. It was the result of being on the ground, handcuffed, with Chauvin's knee bearing down on his neck for more than eight minutes, and Floyd was very likely unconscious for a not insignificant portion of that period of time.
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No more trials.
- 29,849
- Thailand
I find it curious that nations (the riots are happening in the UK too) dealing with this police brutality backlash are so quick to forget there’s a literal genocide happening in China right now.
It’s not this mistreatment of certain individuals because of or not because of their race. It’s the attempted extermination of a whole ethnicity.
To me, it makes the response to local domestic issues seem minor. Sorry to take the glory of maximum oppression from the BLM movement, but they ain’t even close to the discrimination/ ethnic cleansing experienced by
Uygher people in China. Where’s the backlash to an entire race being pushed into extinction there?
No, China too much of a hard target?
It’s all the same world and we all bleed the same blood. Let’s not forget that In the western world, we have it so much better than many others without the ability to protest, never mind riot.
It’s not this mistreatment of certain individuals because of or not because of their race. It’s the attempted extermination of a whole ethnicity.
To me, it makes the response to local domestic issues seem minor. Sorry to take the glory of maximum oppression from the BLM movement, but they ain’t even close to the discrimination/ ethnic cleansing experienced by
Uygher people in China. Where’s the backlash to an entire race being pushed into extinction there?
No, China too much of a hard target?
It’s all the same world and we all bleed the same blood. Let’s not forget that In the western world, we have it so much better than many others without the ability to protest, never mind riot.
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Dotini
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Yes, why go to the effort of fighting for a good cause when it results in zero change? Only real change is a suitable goal. Virtue signaling is wasted effort.
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- Elizabeth, New Jersey, USA
I honestly don't believe Candace Owens genuinely has the views she has. I've known about her for some time, and she basically spouts the same generic reactionary talking points as people like Sean Hannity and Charlie Kirk and Tucker Carlson, except as a black woman. That's her entire appeal. Until 2017, before she was picked up by Turning Point USA and PragerU, she was a lifelong democrat who supported Obama. It only seems reasonable that her working with conservative organizations funded by dark money like the Koch bothers, Wilkes brothers, etc is the reason for her rapid shift in political views. The Republican Party knows its in trouble when it comes to race; over 90% of the Republican party is white (compared to 50-55% of the Democratic party) and the party knows that as the nation becomes less white, they need attract non-white people to their platform more and more. So what is their solution? Of course not addressing the specific issues targeting African American and Hispanic communities, but rather "buying" black people like Candace Owens and Joel Patrick (there's others, too), and making them disseminate the same old reactionary propaganda. Because if Candace Owens as a Black person says that racism exists only on an individual level, or that Trump has "done more for the Black community than any other president", she must be correct. What especially annoys me, is that Candace and Joel love to claim how they are "free thinkers", yet they have the exact same opinions as any other right-wing influencer. Owens is particularly known for making claims that "racism isn't an issue anymore", that the southern strategy never happened and the parties didn't switch, comparing the Democratic party to a "plantation" that keeps African Americans "enslaved" to welfare programmes and victimhood, how abortion is "a worse genocide to Black people than slavery", how African Americans are too entitled and need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and a whole bunch of other baloney. She also loves to say how Black people need to stop using the race card so much, yet she does it when it's convenient for her.
So yeah, those are my two cents about Candace Owens. I hope that no one on this site takes her seriously, as she is most likely not genuine. In a way, I actually feel bad for her. I don't think she knew what she was getting into when she agreed to work with PragerU and TPUSA. She's a perpetrator of spreading misinformation and promoting dangerous ideals, but at the same time is a victim of being corrupted by dark-money funded right-wing institutions.
So yeah, those are my two cents about Candace Owens. I hope that no one on this site takes her seriously, as she is most likely not genuine. In a way, I actually feel bad for her. I don't think she knew what she was getting into when she agreed to work with PragerU and TPUSA. She's a perpetrator of spreading misinformation and promoting dangerous ideals, but at the same time is a victim of being corrupted by dark-money funded right-wing institutions.
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UKMikey
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I'm sure she's crying all the way to the bank if this is true.
That Johnson guy's demand for crazy money for reparations (which he surely knows will get laughed outta town) makes a little more sense to me in this context.
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ROAD_DOGG33J
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- holyc0w1
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https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/kansas-ivanka-trump-graduation-speech/2020/06/05/id/970849/
Wichita State University cancels Ivanka Trump's graduation speech, after a letter was circulated asking school administrators to cancel the speech.
Wichita State University cancels Ivanka Trump's graduation speech, after a letter was circulated asking school administrators to cancel the speech.
McLaren
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I see Floyd's past being brought up now. He did commit a violent offense but, the reports indicate he spent 4(?) years in prison for it, so he's already been justly punished for it return. TMU, that's why he moved to Minneapolis afterwards, to restart. Sort of adds onto this weird fetish many Americans have to continuously punish people for an act they've already apologized/been punished for.
As far as Candice Owens, she's been far too associated with biased groups to take her views as founded & unbiased. In a sick, subtle way, she's not with these groups to share her views, she's there so they can give her platform in return for them to say , "See, a black person agrees with us."
As far as Candice Owens, she's been far too associated with biased groups to take her views as founded & unbiased. In a sick, subtle way, she's not with these groups to share her views, she's there so they can give her platform in return for them to say , "See, a black person agrees with us."
Isn't the issue with people bringing this up is that black American deaths there make up well over half of the white American deaths despite being 13% of the population vs. 76% of the population? Would those statistics (from Wiki) also give context as to why white Americans make up the higher count?
Groundfish
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So post 395, the murder stats in USA, which Candace Owens referred to in the video I mentioned and further the points made by Shelby Steele in the link posted there are ‘misinformation’ and ‘dangerous ideals?’
The last half century of homicides being disproportionate by population and primarily intraracial in nature is untrue?
Not according to the US Bureau of statistics numbers linked in post 395.
Imo they (Owens and Steele) seem to have a very valid point in that American culture in poverty stricken urban communities has not moved forward in 50 plus years.
I find that horrifying, personally. Also I do agree that you can point out a persons past but it’s irrelevant to them being murdered brutally by dirty police. Innocent until proven guilty is the law, not killing someone at the drop of a hat.
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Quite a good watch, sums up the whole Candace Owens thing perfectly. Cuss word warning. It's long, so I'd watch it at 2x speed; you would still be able to understand what is being said.
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- TexRex72
"FREE SPEECH!!! FREE SPEECH!!!"
ROAD_DOGG33J
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- TexRex72
I immediately suspected the video to be manipulated, and that suspicion was confirmed--it's manipulated in a manner not unlike the manner in which Vic Berger edits, albeit without the airhorn--but I opened it on YouTube and paused it so that I could rubberneck the comments section in peace.
There was a fair bit of entertainment value, but this exchange struck me the hardest:
I laughed until I coughed, and then I laughed some more. A "normal" person there absolutely losing it to the point of calling someone racist and misogynist for comments that can't be reasonably said to have been racist or misogynist.
Someone else mentioned that Candace tweeted that people should be deported for burning the flag, even if they're citizens. I figured that had to be a mischaracterization typical of YouTube comments sections, so I Googled it...
Amazing.
Candace Owens isn't a patriotic American. Candace Owens is a caricature of a patriotic American held up by caricatures of patriotic Americans to pander to their base that consists of...you guessed it...caricatures of patriotic Americans.
The American flag is itself a symbol of the right to desecrate the American flag. Statutes which would prohibit flag desecration and which would impose penalties for flag desecration have been repeatedly struck down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional. They're unconstitutional, unpatriotic and un-American.
I've actually burned an American flag, though. Mind you I burned it as a means to dispose of it properly and respectfully, as has been deemed appropriate, so that it wouldn't be subject to further abuse. I burned it after folding it properly, after bringing it home, after retrieving it from the side of the road, after its hoist was torn from a pole mounted in the bed of a truck driven by a caricature of a patriotic American. After burning the folded flag completely, having placed my hand over my heart as it was rendered to ash, I collected those ashes into a plain brown paper bag which I then buried in an area of my property which hasn't been disturbed since. I did this for nobody but myself and I did this out of the respect that I have for the American flag.
I respect the American flag. More than that, I respect the right of others to desecrate the American flag.
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Regardless of one's views on the legitimacy of transgenderism, referring to Blair White as anything other than a "she" feels very forced when anyone who doesn't know who she is would never suspect that she was born a man. It's an incredibly convincing transition.
Danoff
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Respecting the flag is meaningless if it is compulsory. Desecrating the flag is freedom of speech and is fundamentally American. Both respecting the flag and disrespecting it are deeply patriotic.
I too have participated in a respectful flag retirement ceremony. And I would be willing also to participate in a flag desecrating protest.
