ROAD_DOGG33J
Premium
- 14,225
- IL, USA
- holyc0w1
- holyc0w
Guess it's out there on the Twitterverse.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/06/ivanka-trump-cancel-culture-kansas-speech
heh
The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread
- Thread starter DesertPenguin
- 2,712 comments
- 158,465 views
Guess it's out there on the Twitterverse.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/06/ivanka-trump-cancel-culture-kansas-speech
heh
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
His explanation of civil forfeiture being ‘when police take your stuff on suspicion and you can never get it back’
Was comically inaccurate. Yes you get it back if you were not guilty of the crime duh.
That was what I saw when I random scrolled, since it was inaccurate I chose not to watch anymore.
I know folks who have had property seized, they got it back.
I’m sure the laws regarding civil forfeiture can be abused and broken just like ANY law can be broken but saying the answer is eliminating the laws isn’t worthy of one second of thought to anyone with half a brain.
DesertPenguin
(Banned)
- 10,691
- Long Island, New York
- DesertPenguin_
Lyrics from the song "Yatahaze" by the band Dredg. It's a commentary on society and more relevant now than ever:
Questioning and saying
Our opinions, they're flailing
They're constantly changing
Our ignorance remaining
We're hoping and waiting
We're living but dying
While trying to find out
My meaning isn't planned out
Come to the conclusion
Might as well be an illusion
While trying to find out
I get nothing but shut out
Questioning and saying
Our opinions, they're flailing
They're constantly changing
Our ignorance remaining
We're hoping and waiting
We're living but dying
While trying to find out
My meaning isn't planned out
Come to the conclusion
Might as well be an illusion
While trying to find out
I get nothing but shut out
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- 29,727
- a baby, candy, it's like taking.
- TexRex72
I don't feel I'm compelled to respect the flag. I just do. (I also don't feel you were suggesting I must think it compulsory if I do. I'm sure that's not what you're getting at at all, rather being forced to not disrespect the flag under threat of penalty makes "respect" meaningless. I'm merely responding to that idea.) It's an extension of the love that I have for my country. Of course, I don't love everything about my country. I couldn't possibly. Particularly not right now.
I don't approve of flag desecration. I think there are better ways to have your voice heard. However, I am in agreement with you that disrespecting the flag is patriotic because acting on the right to free expression without fear of prosecution for the act itself can't possibly not be patriotic.
I don't approve of it but I oppose any attempt to prosecute an individual or group who chooses to exercise that right.
On the subject of flag desecration and protest, here's Rick Monday protesting flag desecration in 1976:
The protesters were charged, not for desecrating the flag but for criminal trespass. They were found guilty and fined something like $83 each. This just reinforces that you have the right to perform the act, but that right doesn't exempt you from penalty for breaking other laws to perform the act.
- 29,925
- Thailand
I don’t know why but I read those lyrics to the tune of Motor Breath by Metallica.
I think most of you fellas are missing the point - Candice Owens is hot. Blair White is hot.
DesertPenguin
(Banned)
- 10,691
- Long Island, New York
- DesertPenguin_
Search "Seattle" on Twitter and sort by latest. Cop riot just went down about 30 minutes ago.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,447
- Texas
This is truly sickening. I understand the cops have got a job to do but when it's so obvious that someone is seriously injured as a result of your actions you don't walk on by. You can see one cop realises how serious it is and moves to help but his supervisor (?) stops him. Clearly bleeding heavily from the ear which is a sign of a fractured skull. That's just inhumane.
It appears that he had found one of their helmets and was just trying to give it back.
The police should remain accountable for what they did here, there's no denying that. But, a recent video has surfaced today where this man was confronted by protesters about his reasons for being there.
Language warning:
Edit* If he's the same Martin Gugino on Twitter, it does provide a bit more context to the protesters questioning. He is very anti-police on his tweets, and I guess... anti-government? Hates Trump, but shares a lot of anti-Biden & anti-Pelosi stuff, too.
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zzz_pt
Premium
- 8,188
- Porto living in Hamburg
- zzz_pt
Kinda off topic but yesterday we had a protest of around 14000 people here in Hamburg and it ended with some confrontation the polizei. Nothing major from what I heard. I saw the water trucks being deployed but am still not sure if they were used.
Scaff
Moderator
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- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Ahh Ian Miles Cheong, the man who thinks Nazis are actually socialists, clearly not a massively biased source.
You would think he’d learnt on this given the level he got ripped apart when he tried thus ******** in the past.
https://www.indy100.com/article/naz...macists-history-twitter-mikestuchbery-7900001
DesertPenguin
(Banned)
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- DesertPenguin_
- 2,382
- Italia
- STR3LA
Read this.
https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2020/02/06/nazis-and-socialism/
There are different form of socialism. The link you provided look biased in my eyes.
Scaff
Moderator
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- ScaffUK
The link you just provided is from a libertarian commentator who openly admits they are not a historian and as a libertarian has a clear bias against socialism, the one I posted is from a historian.
The Nazis modelled themselves on Italian fascists, they allied themselves with Spanish fascists (supporting them financially and militarily), they followed the main aims of fascism.
1. Saw themselves as racially/nationally superior, 2. Wanted rearmament & expansion, 3. Consolidated capital.
Yes they did bring a number of industries into public ownership, only to immediately turn them into corporate cartels allowing friends of the party to make vast fortunes (so not Socialist at all), the arrested, imprisoned and executed those on the left, including union members (which they then banned).
Oh and take a guess which totally non-socialist is the only American to get a positive mention in Mein Kampf (here’s a hint, he hated unions as well)?
Oh and under Hitler working conditions fell for workers, with lower pay, longer hours and more dangerous working environments.
It’s a right wing fantasy that the Nazis were Socialists, one that does stand up to analysis.
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- 2,382
- Italia
- STR3LA
You are missing the point. National socialism began as a fusion of socialist ideas with anti-Semitc form of natiotionalism. It began as a form of socialism. You are right if you say it was not a socialism but you could also be right if you say it was. Because it began with socialist ideas.
- 7,689
- Michigan
- Rallywgn81
When was the first time you've been to Detroit? I spent a lot of my younger adult years in and around Detroit, Flint and Pontiac. I do a fair bit of work in the poor areas of Detroit and am based out of Lansing. Every time there is major gun violence in any of our big cities, there are protests in Lansing, the capitol of Michigan, where all of the legislature and gov are. You know, the place you want to protest at, so all of those gov officials have the protest in their face, rather than an hour and a half away.
Scaff
Moderator
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- ScaffUK
I’m not missing the point, your attempting to rewrite history.
Not one part of Mein Kampf contains socialist ideas, the name was picked to appeal to those who traditionally would have looked to Socialist parties.
The only element that was used was state ownership, and as soon as a company was it was given to corporate cartels run by friends of the party.
The Nazis were directly inspired by Italian fascists, not socialists. Oh and the only American Hitler praises (and had a picture of in his office) was Henry Ford(and the admiration was two way), who was in no way a Socialist or someone who would associate with a socialist (given he used direct violence to break unions).
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
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- Italia
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Ther is no left or right in a totalitarianisms.
I'm talking about nacional socialism. How is that rewriting history? And you keep bringing Mein Kampf and fascism. Socialism is about economy.
I totally agree. It's not like how we understand the term in modern politics.
DesertPenguin
(Banned)
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Scaff
Moderator
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Really!
I bring up Mein Kampf because it was the manifesto that laid out Hitler's vision for what would become the Nazi party and I bring up Fascism because its an ideology that allowed Hitler to bring his manifesto, are you seriously attempting to suggest that Hitler and the Nazi's were not Fascists (which is by definition is a far-right ideology).
Oh, and socialism is not just 'about the economy'.
As a student of history and a democratic socialist, your ret-con is neither accurate or needed.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
I would be happy to discuss any known facts. The below is what I've found so far. What can you contribute?
https://komonews.com/news/local/sea...urkan-protest-violence-a-public-safety-crisis
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/po...xplosives-seattle/LGJ624HG5FHKJDYRKLY7X7NQ6A/
https://q13fox.com/2020/06/06/9th-day-of-protests-in-seattle-begins-with-medical-workers-march/
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/7/seattle-police-officers-injured-improvised-explosi/
https://lasvegassun.com/news/2020/jun/07/the-latest-seattle-mayor-criticized-over-police-ta/
- 29,188
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
Protests, albeit smaller and thus far peaceful (barring a few minor incidents), have been occurring across the UK - and the issue of black people who have died in police custody or during arrest has been highlighted in recent days in the media.
However, I balked when I saw a piece on the BBC tonight that showed a gallery of victims, which included the person whose death triggered riots in the UK in 2011, Mark Duggan.
While I strongly believe that police brutality, institutional racism (and racism in general of course) needs to be addressed, it is only fair to remember that not all cases are equal - and equating the death of George Floyd to that of an armed drug dealer and violent criminal Mark Duggan leaves a very sour taste in the mouth.
I think we would all agree that the police should not use lethal force to apprehend someone, and that a person's criminal past (or present) doesn't have any bearing on this - but at the same time, is it really fair to ignore the circumstances completely and lump together completely different circumstances and label them as unjust or evidence of racism/brutality when, in the case of Mark Duggan at least, it was nothing of the sort.
However, I balked when I saw a piece on the BBC tonight that showed a gallery of victims, which included the person whose death triggered riots in the UK in 2011, Mark Duggan.
While I strongly believe that police brutality, institutional racism (and racism in general of course) needs to be addressed, it is only fair to remember that not all cases are equal - and equating the death of George Floyd to that of an armed drug dealer and violent criminal Mark Duggan leaves a very sour taste in the mouth.
I think we would all agree that the police should not use lethal force to apprehend someone, and that a person's criminal past (or present) doesn't have any bearing on this - but at the same time, is it really fair to ignore the circumstances completely and lump together completely different circumstances and label them as unjust or evidence of racism/brutality when, in the case of Mark Duggan at least, it was nothing of the sort.
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