The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

[Northstar]

I hate the way Joe Biden said it, but I'm all for shooting people in the leg. It won't kill them and it will immobilize them. Police Department pays for medical fees. Job done.

Going for the leg is a brain dead idea. There is a very high chance you will miss and since you are aiming down the bullet will ricochet if the surface is hard and wind up going who knows where. Aiming for the chest is standard because it gives the highest chance of the bullet ending up where it was intended to.

The best option is to work on tactics that resolve issues without the gun even being drawn in the first place.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Aiming for the chest is standard because it gives the highest chance of the bullet ending up where it was intended to.

True. How about the shoulder? At least aim for upper half?

 

[ryzno]

Going for the leg is a brain dead idea. There is a very high chance you will miss and since you are aiming down the bullet will ricochet if the surface is hard and wind up going who knows where. Aiming for the chest is standard because it gives the highest chance of the bullet ending up where it was intended to.

The best option is to work on tactics that resolve issues without the gun even being drawn in the first place.

Doesn't one of our legs have a main arterie in it?

 

[Greycap]

The best option is to work on tactics that resolve issues without the gun even being drawn in the first place.

In this latest case there would have been at least six different tactics to employ, and none of them by the police.

- Don't drive drunk
- If you do, don't pass out in a drive-thru lane
- If you do, at least don't fight with the policeman when he wakes you up
- Don't steal the policeman's taser
- Don't run away with the said taser
- Don't aim the said taser at the said policeman

Yet the end result was what it was with the policeman really being left with very little choice, seeing that he was facing an aggressive guy possessing a weapon capable of immobilising him, with a very real chance of the guy stealing his gun next. And the headlines... THE POLICE KILLED A BLACK MAN. As if being black was any kind of a factor anymore after those heroics.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Doesn't one of our legs have a main arterie in it?

I think it's harder to hit that than to actually hit the leg itself? You'd have to be aiming for it and on a moving target, not very likely

 

[HenrySwanson]

I think you also need to reread my post in regard to @Rage Racer again, as you seem confused as to what I said.

OK....I did. Then saw you liked the subsequent post about how this is "moving the goalposts".

I'm sorry, but what am I supposed to conclude from that post and reaction?

In this thread however you’ve failed to answer the very simple question I asked you, tell me what the statue I posted teaches you?

You’ve had more than enough time to do so, as such I’m interested to know why you’ve not done so?

So stop avoiding it and let me know, remember no google, statues teach you things (your claim).

I see a bearded man with a cap so I'm thinking is it some prominent local who did things for his community. If I passed by it every day I'd be interested to see what the inscription says (if any) and Google more about the person and what they did. I don't really admire it as a work of art (although it's impossible to say I wouldn't if I saw it in real life) so any feelings that I'd have about the statue would mostly come from gaining additional context about who it was representing.

I don't see how this disproves my point about statues/memorials generating feelings in individuals??

I'll also ask a question - does your opinion of a person change if they still choose to venerate a slaver/someone involved in the slave trade after being made aware of that part of their history?

-------------------

Now that Thomas Guy is being removed I wonder why there aren't calls for Newton to be taken down.... Gotta judge him by the same standards too!

 

[UKMikey]

Not sure about anyone else, but I can definitely state that @HenrySwanson's consistently coming out to bat for a bunch of old statues to the exclusion of all other topics of conversation on this thread hasn't changed my opinion of him in the slightest.

 

[Scaff]

OK....I did. Then saw you liked the subsequent post about how this is "moving the goalposts".

I'm sorry, but what am I supposed to conclude from that post and reaction?

Your trying to conclude something from a like now?

As you’ve not bothered to raise the question with the member that actually made the post I can only conclude this is something personal.

I see a bearded man with a cap so I'm thinking is it some prominent local who did things for his community. If I passed by it every day I'd be interested to see what the inscription says (if any) and Google more about the person and what they did. I don't really admire it as a work of art (although it's impossible to say I wouldn't if I saw it in real life) so any feelings that I'd have about the statue would mostly come from gaining additional context about who it was representing.

I don't see how this disproves my point about statues/memorials generating feelings in individuals??

Nope, he was a marathon runner.

It’s relevant because of your claim that we learn from statues, yet it would seem that more context is needed, almost as if a statue doesn’t actually do what you claimed.

I'll also ask a question - does your opinion of a person change if they still choose to venerate a slaver/someone involved in the slave trade after being made aware of that part of their history?

That would depend on my view of them to begin with.

Now that Thomas Guy is being removed I wonder why there aren't calls for Newton to be taken down.... Gotta judge him by the same standards too

Do you disapprove of institutes making choices for themselves?

 

[TexRex]

...you liked the subsequent post...

Holy crap on a cracker. Why does this concern you so much? I hardly pay that much attention to "likes" under my own posts.

 

[novcze]

I do have to ask how spitting on someone and kicking them while they are on the floor isn’t cowardly violence.

Yeah it is, but I meant cowardly violence which ends with blood dripping from the victims, broken bones and deaths ...

 

[eran0004]

- Don't drive drunk
- If you do, don't pass out in a drive-thru lane
- If you do, at least don't fight with the policeman when he wakes you up
- Don't steal the policeman's taser
- Don't run away with the said taser
- Don't aim the said taser at the said policeman

- Don’t shoot somebody who isn’t a threat.

 

[ryzno]

- Don’t shoot somebody who isn’t a threat.

Wow... Did you miss the he took the officers taser part?
Edit:
Seriously, do you think he knew how to use a police issued taser that shoots barbs so the taser cables stay in the person, much less how long to hold it so you don't, guess what? Kill someone...

 

[Scaff]

Yeah it is, but I meant cowardly violence which ends with blood dripping from the victims, broken bones and deaths ...

The first certainly happened yesterday, the second may well have done and the last one didn’t happen in on either weekend.

You seem to be working hard to hold a different standard to the two.

 

[Northstar]

In this latest case there would have been at least six different tactics to employ, and none of them by the police.

- Don't drive drunk
- If you do, don't pass out in a drive-thru lane
- If you do, at least don't fight with the policeman when he wakes you up
- Don't steal the policeman's taser
- Don't run away with the said taser
- Don't aim the said taser at the said policeman

Yet the end result was what it was with the policeman really being left with very little choice, seeing that he was facing an aggressive guy possessing a weapon capable of immobilising him, with a very real chance of the guy stealing his gun next. And the headlines... THE POLICE KILLED A BLACK MAN. As if being black was any kind of a factor anymore after those heroics.

- Don’t get disarmed by a half-awake drunk guy.

Wow... Did you miss the he took the officers taser part?

I would imagine the odds of a drunk guy that has likely never fired a taser actually hitting the officer in an unprotected spot are pretty damn slim.

 

[ryzno]

I would imagine the odds of a drunk guy that has likely never fired a taser actually hitting the officer in an unprotected spot are pretty damn slim.

I usually agree with you. But I see a drunk person with a "safe weapon", with I assume no experience using it, a threat.
Odds smodds...

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

- Don’t get disarmed by a half-awake drunk guy.

He seemed fully awake when he started running.

 

[eran0004]

Wow... Did you miss the he took the officers taser part?
Edit:
Seriously, do you think he knew how to use a police issued taser that shoots barbs so the taser cables stay in the person, much less how long to hold it so you don't, guess what? Kill someone...

Seems like you missed the fact that he was running away and that there were two officers on the scene. It’s highly unlikely that he would have stopped to tase one of them to death, and even more unlikely that the other officer would just stand there and let him do that. There is a hypothetical scenario in which he could have become a threat, but he hadn’t become one by the time they shot him.

 

[ryzno]

Seems like you missed the fact that he was running away and that there were two officers on the scene. It’s highly unlikely that he would have stopped to tase one of them to death, and even more unlikely that the other officer would just stand there and let him do that.

Okay... I'm gonna try again... He was running and literally turned around and pointed the officers taser at him.
I'd gladly share the long unedited video(I watched) if you like, but I won't cause AUP...

Edit:
As an American you have the right to defend yourself from police.
You don't have the right to try to possibly injure an officer cause you passed out in a drive thru and don't want to go to jail for DUI...

 

[TenEightyOne]

Okay... I'm gonna try again... He was running and literally turned around and pointed the officers taser at him.
I'd gladly share the long unedited video(I watched) if you like, but I won't cause AUP...

Edit:
As an American you have the right to defend yourself from police.
You don't have the right to try to possibly injure an officer cause you passed out in a drive thru and don't want to go to jail for DUI...

The events in the video don't justify a return of deadly force. There were three officers there (at least), at least one more had taser. The biggest threat the officers faced was looking like dicks because somebody stole a taser off them and escaped. They would have had little trouble tracking the suspect down after spending 40+ minutes on scene with him, doing a documents check, and they still had his car. No need for deadly force at all.

 

[Sander 001]

 

[eran0004]

Okay... I'm gonna try again... He was running and literally turned around and pointed the officers taser at him.

That's not disputed. What's disputed is whether that presented such a grave threat to the officer that he was justified in shooting the man. Keep in mind that he was clearly running away and that there were two officers on the scene, so even if he would have been lucky enough to incapacitate one of them he would most likely just have kept running.

Edit:
As an American you have the right to defend yourself from police.

You don't actually. https://codes.findlaw.com/ga/title-16-crimes-and-offenses/ga-code-sect-16-10-24.html

 

[Scaff]

An arrest has been made for the man who urinated against the memorial in London.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...ew-banks-stansted_uk_5ee61819c5b650ea7b3ff6ab

 

[UKMikey]

An arrest has been made for the man who urinated against the memorial in London.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...ew-banks-stansted_uk_5ee61819c5b650ea7b3ff6ab

At least he handed himself into police; I wonder whether it'll result in a reduced penalty. Community service cleaning gravestones and memorials plus a fine should do the trick.

 

[Dotini]

The events in the video don't justify a return of deadly force. There were three officers there (at least), at least one more had taser. The biggest threat the officers faced was looking like dicks because somebody stole a taser off them and escaped. They would have had little trouble tracking the suspect down after spending 40+ minutes on scene with him, doing a documents check, and they still had his car. No need for deadly force at all.

Life is tough. Much tougher if you are stupid.
Face it, cops are not too bright. Otherwise they wouldn't be cops. Friendly advice: When around cops, be careful. In fact, always be careful. Once you are dead, there's no coming back.

 

[TenEightyOne]

So what's your take on this @Dotini? Obviously it's a Craigslist advert so could be posted by anyone... but if it's genuine then who posted it? Trump's organisers so that genuine protestors can be dismissed as paid actors? Posted by genuine protest groups to provide visibly-bolstered support (little need for that in Tulsa I'd image)?

If indeed there's a genuine inside story I hope we get to hear it.

 

[novcze]

You seem to be working hard to hold a different standard to the two.

Speaking of different standards, what far-group do you think did the most damage to the society last few years.

You don't actually. https://codes.findlaw.com/ga/title-16-crimes-and-offenses/ga-code-sect-16-10-24.html

didn't @ryzno mean defend in a court of law?

 

[Dotini]

So what's your take on this @Dotini? Obviously it's a Craigslist advert so could be posted by anyone... but if it's genuine then who posted it? Trump's organisers so that genuine protestors can be dismissed as paid actors? Posted by genuine protest groups to provide visibly-bolstered support (little need for that in Tulsa I'd image)?

If indeed there's a genuine inside story I hope we get to hear it.

Sorry, I have absolutely no idea or insight into that question. It could be anything or nothing. No need for me to speculate.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Sorry, I have absolutely no idea or insight into that question. It could be anything or nothing. No need for me to speculate.

It was your post... why post it?

 

[Dotini]

It was your post... why post it?

No. It was Sander's post you quoted. Into the bottle so early?

 

[TenEightyOne]

No. It was Sander's post you quoted. Into the bottle so early?

I wish. Just a genuine mistake... so I'll throw the question over to @Sander 001